She moved out in September and we share 50/50 custody of a 2 yr old baby girl.
We slowly started to spend more time together during exchanges.
I [censored] up last week. I used sex as a way of seeing if she was truly back in again. I was angry.
I used the word "child support" for the first time in a Venmo message. I only wanted to communicate by email for a fw days. When I realized how I was feeling I owned it all and apologized.
She just told me things are final. She is moving on. I feel she's done.
I want to ask - is there hope I can do anything and I'm also afraid of someone saying NO.
How do I stay open to a future yet protective of my heart.
How do I move forward from today?
I wrote her this email and would love anyone's thoughts on it or anything else.
Lish -
My hope is that this email is something at some point you can visit to
I want to repeat and share once again that I see your hurt.
You spoke about your #1 value. I've known that, we had so much and what you were bringing and how you were shaping our time was enough for me - apple orchards, family walks, family breakfasts. I shared a lot this morning about my view on it, and I want you to know, it is ever so apparent how important it is to you and how much I am aligned and wanting it as well.
You mentioned it took me 6 days. I imagine you may have felt abandoned and the pattern was repeating. I'm sorry. I can see and hear the hurt and as soon as you said it I knew what it meant. I imagine it must have been painful, perhaps angry and sad. It brings me pause to think about how that could have made you feel. I didn't want to blame you for anything, I wanted to come to you with love, that which you deserve. Internally I was dealing with my own process and the failure to meet my exam deadline, a broken computer which I drove around all day on Sunday trying to buy a new one and repairing what looked like a failing deal with my new job. I took Monday to compose my thoughts and Tuesday to send it. I know my apology could be too late, I see where I could have just brought this all up in a more vulnerable way, I just didn't think it was something you wanted or thought was appropriate.
I'm sorry about the venmo message - I can see how hurtful, severing and perhaps cuel that could have felt.
I'm sorry that you felt sex was a contngentcey. I wanted my honesty to show that I was the problem. On Thursday and Friday I was not able to access the truth. You expressed so much sadness and the frustrations about us not being as physical as you need and that you want to feel desired. I really [censored] this up and I wanted to acknowledge to you my shortcomings and my ownership and how I was short-sided. You deserve the truth and I also could have realized a snuggle on the couch could have been enough.
Gosh Lish, how that really could have hurt you.....
Your message on New Year's day so warmed my heart despite everything I was feeling. i was stuck, I wanted you to secretly come over and surprise me. You deserved a man that night.
I heard and read about how you feel about trying - You feel hurt and done. I respect that you want to grow now by yourself and separately. It was my mistake to not stay with February 1st, I wanted you and it was too soon. I am sticking up for the relationship and what was a clear break in September and the past 4 months that have followed have shown our growth together.
Family dinners, dance parties. Gentle conversations, more of me which is what you wanted. Family.
In my own experience this week I have looked inside and seen your sensitivity, your innocence and delicacy - and the word I've always used, kindness. I also see some of my disconnection and blindness. I will honor that vision of you and will look at you with those eyes. I can fathom that the way you feel is worse than I do right now.
Take your time. I am building a container and a loving kind presence for us. I ask, don't throw this away.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
By all means, DO NOT SEND THAT EMAIL. LBSs always think that long, heartfelt messages will win back their WAS. You are falling back to behaviors that won her over during dating, those tactics will not work to win her back.
I agree with others, your OP is very scattered, it is obvious you are freaking out. Calm down, you are going to be fine no matter what. Please give some more details about your situation and the collective experience of the posters that have been through it can help you.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Long wordy messages don't help. Drop the e-mail. Tell us more about your situation.
PS - I never bothered to read my ex-wife's long, wordy e-mails even 10 years later and don't plan to.
In my first situation with my W back in 2005, I would often send her long, emotional, very deeply thought out emails. I found out years later that she didn't even read most of them, at least not as carefully as I composed them. This is great insight, CW.
Last edited by Steve85; 01/08/2112:58 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I used sex as a way of seeing if she was truly back in again.
If you've gotten to the point of BD, then she's not coming back for a long time. I think this is the one concept that LBS struggle the most with- time. There are no quick fixes, the sooner you realize that then the smoother this will go.
Quote
I used the word "child support" for the first time in a Venmo message. I only wanted to communicate by email for a fw days. When I realized how I was feeling I owned it all and apologized.
Pull back and be quiet. LBSs are masters of saying all the wrong things and novices at shutting up. Be the opposite.
Quote
She just told me things are final. She is moving on. I feel she's done.
She thinks she's done right now. She will probably think that for months. After that, who knows? You'd be amazed at the turnarounds that have happened against seemingly impossible odds.
Quote
I want to ask - is there hope I can do anything and I'm also afraid of someone saying NO.
There's always hope. Again, don't worry about what she says now. It's only a reflection of her current feelings, and they may very well change.
Quote
How do I move forward from today?
Read DR. Read all the links Cadet posted. Then read it all again. Read other sitches. Post more. Your first post doesn't make a lot of sense. Collect your thoughts and post in more detail.
Quote
I wrote her this email and would love anyone's thoughts on it or anything else.
Well everyone else already told you not to send it. They are absolutely correct. WAS's feel like they're under a lot of pressure. A letter and/ or relationship talks are even more pressure. You want to remove all pressure.
Don't take the following personally. This is the beginning of your education into how WAS's read and perceive things, I am showing you how she is going to interpret your comments in her current WAS mindset:
Quote
I want to repeat and share once again that I see your hurt.
Talk is cheap. She won't believe anything you say/ write. You've got to show her change through ACTIONS. And even then she will think they are "tricks" to get her back. So she needs to see consistent change over a long period of time.
Quote
You spoke about your #1 value. I've known that, we had so much and what you were bringing and how you were shaping our time was enough for me - apple orchards, family walks, family breakfasts. I shared a lot this morning about my view on it, and I want you to know, it is ever so apparent how important it is to you and how much I am aligned and wanting it as well.
She's done with the R, the LAST thing you want to do is bring up old romantic stuff or drag out a photo album to show her how happy she was and how she should want all that back. IT WILL ONLY DRIVE HER FARTHER AWAY. Right now she's rewriting history, all of those warm fuzzy memories you have she will NOT have. If you say something like "but you were so happy then" she'll say she was faking it. And she really believes her rewritten history. So don't even go there.
Quote
I imagine you may have felt abandoned and the pattern was repeating.
Read everything you can on listening and validation skills. Don't ever tell someone what they feel! Ever! You can ask someone what they feel or felt, but if you tell them what YOU think they felt then they'll just think "he never listens and he always just makes assumptions."
Quote
Internally I was dealing with my own process and the failure to meet my exam deadline, a broken computer which I drove around all day on Sunday trying to buy a new one and repairing what looked like a failing deal with my new job.
Don't try to make conversations about you. She won't care. It just sounds like lame excuses to her.
Quote
I see where I could have just brought this all up in a more vulnerable way
Do you seriously think this is appropriate for a letter????? I mean how ironic that you are talking about how you could have handled this in a better "more vulnerable" way, and you're delivering that message in the cold, uncaring format of an email, perhaps the least vulnerable possible communication format. Right? Vulnerable would be opening up in person. The time for that has passed though, so table it for now.
Quote
i was stuck, I wanted you to secretly come over and surprise me. You deserved a man that night.
After you read DR, read No More Mister Nice Guy. What you describe here is a "covert contract" and they are extremely harmful for relationships. You need to learn about them and the harm they cause so you can be mindful of not allowing it to happen in the future.
Anyway you get the point. That email is saying all the wrong things at the worst possible time. If you feel the need to write things like this then by all means do so and post them here. But do not send them to your W. There may have been a time when a letter like this would have welcomed by her and mattered to her. That time is past. Now she will find fault in everything you say.
Thank you everyone. I am thankful for all of the responses and support.
I did not send that email I had a panic attack last night. I have been talking with a few professionals throughout the past 18hrs.
A quick 2 questions: Can someone help me understand the acronyms or is there a table I can look at? and also, where do I get a copy of the book? (Sorry, I am pretty disorientated right now and just trying to get things together as I start a new job on Monday that I am excited about and have my daughter all weekend. I appreciate the support everyone. I am so glad I posted. I didn't expect any responses and I am taken back.)
I will share my story either tonight or tomorrow but here is a summary: I short, we met on a bus in Mexico 4 years ago. Me (now 47 / her now 36). Long distance dated for a year. She moved out to CO after a year. We got pregnant 6 months later in July of 2018.
We share a 2 year old together so I will be seeing her at least 4 times a week and later today in 4 hours for the first time in a week and since the breakup yesterday.
This past year and a half has been really rough. Obviously Covid hasn't helped - she seems to discount that. More later either tonight or tomorrow.
I wanted to share that based on everyones' advice I may have screwed up again.
I was talking with a friend earlier today and the thoughts came up with - maybe I should own everything? and tell her no pressure to respond.
So I called her and this is what I said: "There is no pressure to respond and I just want you to know that I screwed up and said and did some things that I shouldn't have done.
We were building something new and special over the past 6 weeks and I know we can continue building that.
Take your time, I think this is good for us. Just please don't through this away. And there is no pressure to respond now. If/when you are open to talking about this know that I am here to have the conversation."
She replied: "Joe, you did nothing wrong, I'm just not in love. You deserve someone who loves you and so do I" (she has said this to me back in November.)
I replied: "Lish, I hear and respect what you are saying. I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am only sharing my own opinion and also speaking up for the relationship.
I am confused, you wrote a beautiful letter to me 6 weeks ago that said you love me and wanted to come back and be more for me.
On new years eve you sent me a beautiful text message about how we met and that you love me.
We had a good thing that we were both contributing to, cultivating our new fire together. I felt it and believe it was growing between us.
I know I [censored] up. You don't need to say anything, I'm not expecting a response. If/when you'd like to talk know that I am here."
I can't recall if she said "ok" or some other short goodbye.
