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wooba Offline OP
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Kml - I joined a minimalism fb group and it is always inspiring to read how other people organize and purge their things. It is definitely a lot harder for me to do it with three kids, but I finally made S10 to cut his lego possession in half! The amount of legos really drove me crazy for years, I don’t know why I didn’t do this sooner lol.

DnJ- I always ask a few simple questions, such as what did you guys do there today, or where did you go for dinner etc. lately I had to ask “did dad fall asleep again?” I am so thankful that my boys are not babies anymore and they can handle themselves even if unsupervised. But it still irks me that most likely they are spending a lot of time on YouTube when ExH is passed out next to them. So yes, after the last incident I do plan to allow S12 to bring a phone next time. How crazy is that!! I can count on S12 to pick up more than his dad! As for the can of worms- I feel like it’s important for them to know at some point that their dad is drinking too much. But maybe a little too young for that conversation right now?

Scout- thanks! Yes; more doesn’t necessary mean bad. My situation was we had way too much and most things weren’t being used. That’s the thing when one has a lot of closet/cabinet space- it’s almost as if one cannot stand seeing the void; and something must go there to “take up space”. But in reality it takes effort to train oneself to learn to appreciate the emptiness and be satisfied with the lack of “stuff”.

For those who aspire to be minimalists:

By Joshua Fields Millburn

Minimalism is not interested in what you have.
You can buy the “best” bag, bookcase, boots,
but none of that will fill the void.

And minimalism is not concerned with what you don’t have.
“Look, ma—no things!”
Because owning nothing doesn’t remove the void.

Minimalism is not busy with doing something.
Decluttering, organizing, and paring down don’t work
unless you first find peace in doing without.

And minimalism is not focused on becoming something—
job titles and achievements merely generate a thirst for more.

Instead, a minimalist focuses on being—
being someone who returns to the natural order,
to the default state of thriving with less.

This does not involve simplifying “tips” or “how-to” guides.
It requires a deep understanding that you were born simple.
Society, culture, and media have dragged you away from your nature.

You’ve been told to improve that which doesn’t need improvement.
You’ve been convinced that you are lacking.
You’ve been hypnotized into believing that you are incomplete.

These are lies told to exploit you.
To sell you something.
But the Truth won’t be found in any store.
It is unearthed in less.

The Truth awaits in the pause between stillness and awareness,
in surrendering to the absence of wanting more.
It cannot be conjured with the swipe of a credit card.

Simplicity is not a task—
minimalism is not a destination—
it’s everything that remains when you
let go of the attachment to every thing.


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kml Offline
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I'd say my biggest problem with stuff is the aspirational things and the emotional things. The skinny jeans you hope to fit into again some day (I've gotten good at getting rid of those things lately though). The t-shirt that's now too small but was a thoughtful gift from my kid. Otherwise I'm pretty good at purging things, it's more a matter of having the time and energy to tackle such projects.

I do start to think of my kids now too when I'm purging and organizing, the whole "Swedish death cleaning" concept. Not that I'm anywhere near death - anticipating at least 30 more years! But after dealing with my mom's things after her death (which were few and well-organized - she purged most of her stuff when she moved in with me 10 years ago) I realize that my stuff needs to be better organized and accessible to my kids in case of my unexpected demise.

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Hi my dear wooba,
I'm so excited to hear about your super sparkly new life. It's great when the stars align and that whole new life emerges as a whole new you emerges with it. As far as dealing with XH. I'm relaying to you what I know from having to parent with an alcoholic for the last 18 years. Take what you think is best.

IMHO the oldest needs a phone on him when ever he isn't with you. If he is in the same school with the littles just him having a phone is fine, but if they are in separate schools you may need to consider an emergency phone for the next oldest. If it hasn't happened yet there is likely to be a time when XH tries to pick the kids up under the influence or completely forgets them. D18's school when she was small would start calling down the list after only one call to me and more often then not I couldn't answer my phone but I could respond to a text. Next the "sleeping" through phone calls is only the tip of the ice berg. There will soon be days where XH will sleep through feeding them or getting them to scheduled activities.

I often had to order my daughter delivery if I made the mistake of going out of town on her dad's weekends. Other times I'd just come and get her. Once she spiked a fever while she was there and I had to go pick her up and take her to the ER. His GF at the time didn't know what was going on because my ex was ignoring my daughter to try to stay at the party they were at. As soon as I texted the GF she swiftly met me at the ER with my ex. I miss that GF.

All that being said. Your 12yo is now the 3rd parent. It [censored] for him. And thankfully in your house he won't ever have to be, but he more often than not will be at XH's house. 12 isn't too young to talk to him about his dad's drinking. And if I'm really honest with you he already knows. He probably just had no real good way to start that conversation with you, or has just accepted that as his reality. I was clear with my daughter from a very young age about what her dad was/is and what that means for her. You don't need to sit down and say "Hey guys, daddy's a drunk so I need you to report back to me everything he says and does." Or "Hey guys, daddy's drinking is out of control so you need to call me when he passes out and leaves you unattended." But your 12 yo I think you can have a real heart to heart with about taking some responsibility to make sure that you are informed when and where they are at after a reasonable amount of wake up attempts. Making sure they aren't going too long without reminding dad to feeding them or calling you when he said he would, and making that call himself if dad isn't.

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wooba Offline OP
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Wayfarer- it will be a difficult conversation to have....S12 I feel like holds his dad on a pedestal a little bit (thank goodness only him out of the three), so it will probably be difficult for him to accept that his dad is a flawed person. I think you’re right, I don’t need to be so blunt to say that their dad is an alcoholic, but just talk to them about things to watch out for and how to handle a hypothetical situation may be enough.

I am a little scared that you said this could be the tip of the iceberg. ExH has always been a high functioning alcoholic, so I never imagined that it could be worse than what it has been throughout our M. But last weekend when he was helping us with the move, he forgot something at his place and I offered my car for him to use, I sensed that he was hesitant about driving. (He usually takes a cab around the city). And then often times he would “fall asleep” for awhile when he has the boys (so far he’s able to keep them fed). How fast could the downward spiral be?? I’m not even talking about the other parenting issues- he put on John Wick for the kids to watch once, I heard from the kids and I was like “what?? That movie is extremely violent!!” The kids said “dad said he picked a censored version (?!?! Who knows)” Anyways. It sure takes a lot of patience and self control for me to let him do his own thing and have his own relationship with the children. I control what I can control.


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Hello wooba

Your kids are young, and need to know about Dad. Remain age appropriate in the discussion and openly answer and address their questions and concerns. As wayfarer said, they most likely know more you realize.

Good plan sending a phone along with S12 from now on. That little peace of mind is a big thing - for you and the kids.

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Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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hi Wooba,

I'm sorry, this is all really difficult to deal with. But I am a big believer in Marie Kondo too and am excited about that part for you!

Just an observation... my neighbor (wife left him a couple of years ago, has a S4 and D9 now) doesn't have any sort of alcohol problem, but routinely naps now when he has his kids. it is WEIRD. I mean, I know he totally naps on the days he doesn't have his children but think it is so strange that he still does it when he has the kids. I've come to believe that it is part of his routine and he can't kick it, even when he has the kids. I know your H has alcohol problems, but it may not be that he's so drunk he's passing out when he has the children. he may just be lazy and self-centered and unable to not take his regular afternoon nap, even for his kids.

Regardless, I third the idea of your S12 having a phone for those situations.

M


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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wooba Offline OP
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May, I think in my case it’s a combination of both. I know ExH has always not slept well at night. So I believe with aging, he probably does need his naps in the afternoon. But also throw in the excessive drinking in the mix, his sleep quality is definitely not good. I don’t think he is passing out on the floor type of drunk (yet) but I wouldn’t be surprised either.


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So this is anecdotal at best but these are my observations of kids/peers around me. In my normal everyday life and my time in juvenile justice. The eldest really only goes 2 ways with the less stable, less seen parent. One is they see that parent for exactly who they are and may even see them in a more negative light than most of the world, lacking some empathy or grace that they would give literally anyone else if they behaved the same way. Or they put that parent on a throne of imaginary glory. The problem with the latter is once that parent falls that child won't pick them back up, and it's a very very hard fall because the allusions about that person the child created become glaringly obvious and they essentially break their own hearts in the process. S12 is still young enough to idolize dad because he isn't synthesizing everything in front of him, but I doubt highly he'll still see dad that way by the time he's 15.

Also not to contradict May here, but having more first hand experience here, napping and passing out, even as a sound sleeper are two very different things. I have zero judgement for people who nap with kids around as long as they aren't' under the influence. I'm not a napper but if you have kids who actually let you nap my god take it. But I would put money on the fact that that isn't' what happened here. If he wanted that nap he could've waited until the kids were gone. They would've in fact been gone sooner had he not laid down. The way I see it is exH may have made it into the bed to lay down vs just dropping on the kitchen floor but it doesn't make it any less passing out. The fact that he didn't once hear the phone ring, or wake for the kids after multiple wake up attempts he was very likely passed out. Him sleeping poorly due to the drinking or the depression or some fun combo is probably why he aims for drunk enough to pass out. Just to get some sleep, even if it's crappy drunk sleep.

As far as escalating behavior. My exH is functional as well. Not one DUI. Never lost a job. Pays his bills on time. Well now, not when we were together. But being functional doesn't' really change how people with AODA issues behave. Your exH now that he has no reason to put on a show or hide his drinking, will devolve. If you notice this little passing out incident didn't happen the day the kids got there. It happened the day the kids were leaving. He thought he'd be fine because you were coming to get the kids and they were leaving any way. He will rationalize any reason to start really drinking when he can. Honestly he will very likely hold on to his job and stay somewhat stable as he probably has a pull to provide. But nights and weekends, its no holds barred. He's in a phase in his life where he thinks he can be what ever he wants and you were just holding him back. He's in a phase where he felt like you were stifling him. Not realizing that he was doing those things so that you wouldn't see how bad the drinking was. He likely is thinking he's like 20 again, and he's just having a good time and letting loose in what ever way he pleases vs the reality that you, a MR and family life were keeping the drinking in check. I know very few if any addicts who just kinda maintain the status quo. Maybe I'm wrong and your kids will be lucky enough to have a dad who is one of them. But statistically, and my gut, says it's only going to get worse.

My exH maintains a kind of a status quo I suppose. Best guess here is yours will likely follow the same pattern. My exH will get deep into his addiction. Things will start going really badly. Struggling at work. Hurting himself (not on purpose). Breaking things. Losing things. Fighting with everyone he knows. Reality will eventually set in and he'll do some AODA counseling, maybe go to a few meetings, maybe even work a step or 2, quit cold turkey and tell the world how many days sober he is. And things will be ok for a little while. And then he'll start again. A beer here or there and within a few months he's downing handles of cheap vodka over the weekend. And we cycle through this over and over again. With distance it feels like he's just kind of a constant level of addict. But D18 and I have the gift of distance. We've had that for some time now. You my dear and those sweet littles of yours are in the thick of it, and likely will be for a while. Its why I push so hard for the Ala-non and Ala-teen or some kind of AODA counseling for loved ones. You are going to need that kind of support, so will the kids.

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Wayfarer, gosh everything you said makes so much sense. That part with your exh quitting cold turkey and telling everyone is EXACTLY like my ExH!!! He did it once few years back before we moved overseas. He actually stopped drinking for a year. And after he started drinking again, he’d constantly talk about how he was able do it cold turkey for a year. “I did it for a year! I could do it again if I wanted to!”....as if that was proof that he has the will to stop anytime.

I asked both S10&S12 whether they were nervous when they tried to wake up dad but dad would t wake up. They both said no, “why would I be nervous?” I said well if I were a child and I tried to wake up my parent and it’s not working, I’d be a little nervous. S10 had more of a reaction actually, he said, “He wasn’t even drinking, he didn’t open the wine that he bought.” (I didn’t mention the drinking at all when I asked the Q, but that day when I knocked on the door and the kids opened the door I was so flustered that I blurted out “is dad drunk??”)

Funny side note- did I mention that I’m going to work at the same company as ExH? It wasn’t intentional, but it’s a big company and a great opportunity so I decided to take it anyway. and I will be in the same building as him. Lol.

Today ExH called and asked me if I’m starting work on Monday. I said yes. And he said, “you know the company culture....upper management don’t really like people talking about their dirty laundry and whatever personal business at work. I haven’t really told anyone here at work, so I just want to see if we should get our stories straight.” I said, “if people ask me, I’m going to tell the truth. We are separated and finalizing the divorce.” Him: “okay yeah that’s one way to do it too...” I then told him I was busy and had to hang up. I could hear the cowardice in his voice. People ask me this too, “but you will be working in the same building as him!!” I usually say; “so what? I’ve got nothing to hide, nothing to fear.” He is really not on my list of worries anymore.


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Well, I wanted to give an update of my wonderful transition to become a working mom, but unfortunately I have to update about ExH.

As usual, I dropped off the boys with ExH for about 5 hours on Sunday for his time with the kids. If you guys recall, last time it resulted in me going up to his apartment and knocking to realize that he had fallen asleep at my pick up time and did not answer my calls. I told S12 that I'd send a phone with him next time, but this time S12 was out with friends, so it was only S10 and S8.

ExH sent them home on time, but S10 told me, "Dad fell asleep again, I tried to wake him up but he wouldn't wake up. I said it was time for our reservation and he told me no it's not time yet. I was so hungry so I cried. But around 6:50 he suddenly woke up and say oh it's time to go"

Of course upon hearing this I was furious. S10 said he didn't tell me immediately (he mentioned this after I asked him directly whether dad had fallen asleep again) because he didn't want me to be angry at dad. Well, in the end the kids were fed and everything was okay. But I can imagine S10 feeling distraught and worried when he couldn't wake up his dad.

Here's my question - Should I even mention this to ExH? My guess is like the last time, he will say some BS again to justify his behavior. I was so mad that I wanted to just call him up and ask him if he had drank too much. "Did you know that our son cried because he couldn't wake you up??"

But on second thought I don't know what it would accomplish.

I told S10 that next time I will send you guys to dad's only when one of you has a phone just in case you need to call me.

I'm really thankful that my kids are not babies anymore, or else I would NOT be fine with having this incompetent father watch over my babies.


Last edited by wooba; 01/18/21 03:09 PM.

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