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((((Sage)))))

I totally get it about being flattered. I felt the same when my H did that. But later I understood he was projecting his own desire to cheat and his own feelings that he was justified. It's like he thinks you have to think exactly as he does, he can't imagine anything different right now. I do think it shows he does not want you with someone but ultimately it is a disordered love and you do not need to talk about disordered love with a disordered person. It will only confuse you. It is okay to be totally silent and know that God or the universe knows the truth, it doesn't matter if H does. Remember, your ability to love him has nothing to do with his ability to love you. The beauty of your ability to love is why you feel flattered, you want to be loved as you love. But he is not capable of that now.

Now about the rest -- I don't know if you are a person of faith but I think you just have to remember that you are going through something impossible and that you are loved. It will not feel possible to make it through this time or do all that you have to do, but all you have to do is keep walking through the fire. It will not last forever but right now all you can do is walk through it. Take a bike ride for 15 minutes or stay up a little late after your kids are in bed to read a book you love with your favorite tea or whatever it is that will give you some headspace. And then just keep telling yourself that you are capable of accepting your circumstances and that you will not give way to despair. Think of all the women who are living through far worse than you on this earth. And think of your friends here, who are going through the same thing as you are. I have four different part time jobs, sometimes six when I have more work, and all my hours have been cut. I have no child support, sole custody and a rental business to run on top of my part time jobs. Today I found out I lost my health insurance two months ago from one of my jobs and they never told me. My house is usually a mess and I get grouchy about my kids being home and so needy most of the time. Point is, I get it, it's impossible what we are living through, no one could do it right or perfectly. But you are loved and you are worthy. Just keep walking.

Last edited by Gerda; 11/18/20 01:31 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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DnJ, WF, May, Wooba, Gerda,

Thank you for the notes and advice. It has gotten me through the week. Some specific tidbits that had a particular impact on me:

Originally Posted by DnJ
The way to deal with this daily issue is to kind of not deal with it. Let it go. Just validate and keep moving forward. Your demonstrated good life is a beacon to him. Keep living it. If your life is a bit mysterious, good.


Thanks DnJ, this was perfect advice for me in that moment. It hasn't come up in the past few days so I am hoping that the validation and continued detachment is working in this department.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
A few extra hours a week as a compromise to help lift the burden when being subjected to the Spanish Inquisition because you want to run and take a long shower alone and in the quiet seems like you're taking on more. Not less.


This is true. I feel like a lot of energy goes into the balance of 'getting my needs met vs dealing with H's needs'. For a long time I allowed his needs to trump mine and it led us here. I need reminders like this to help me project the outcome and make sure the net net bottom line actually serves in my favor.

Originally Posted by may22
In terms of not contributing to the cycle of insecurities that may ultimately harm your co-parenting R, my worry is that this is a never-ending hole for both of you. You will never be able to have enough transparency to convince him, even if you wanted to, and he'll continue to think up ways that you might be "betraying" him because this is stemming from someplace inside him, not from you.


And beyond just the 'betrayal' issue, this applies to all of H's current narratives. They're his not mine and I need to decide how much I am willing to invest in his insecurities. (Back to WF's nudge which got me thinking about return on investment).

Originally Posted by wooba
And I would add, be careful of the "I'm flatter that he cares" narrative. My guess is that it's not YOU that he cares, it is his ego. That is not a sign of love, it is sign of control, insecurity, maybe even guilt.


Wooba, thanks for the tough but true reminder. I needed to read this to help me detach in this arena.

Originally Posted by Gerda
It will not feel possible to make it through this time or do all that you have to do, but all you have to do is keep walking through the fire. It will not last forever but right now all you can do is walk through it.


Thanks Gerda. True. Yes. Thanks for shining a light so I can focus on getting out of the tunnel.

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WF, I missed this one a just read it today. Such good advice, I love the TikTok woman's approach and worldview.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
So care tasks - cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping. The things that you can finish but are never finished. She does a lot of work around not valuing yourself on how well, quickly or often you complete care tasks. That you are not valued as a person based on those things. That your home is a home it is lived in and there is no need to be a Better Homes and Gardens photo shoot. She also does a lot of work on allowing yourself the space to use short cuts like paper plates, ordering take out, paying a little more to have groceries delivered, whatever it may be to help ease the burden. She also talks about being willing to let the laundry pile up, or to not vacuum for days. To not force things in for the purposes of a tidy home, to do them because you feel like it, or because it needs to be done. And doing these things within the limits of how much you have the energy for. If you only have time and energy for 2 loads makes it underwear, socks and other essentials. Things like that. The self care part, she doesn't just talk about bubble baths and yoga. She talks about protective hairstyles for all types of hair so you don't have to wash your hair every day if don't have time or energy to shower every day. She talks about finding space for yourself during the day even if it means not being super mom and popping on some Disney+ and throwing fruit snacks at the kids.


I am still haunted by H's list of things he doesn't like about me and on that list was that I am messy. I am triggered by it and am working myself to the bone to maintain a tidy house in the midst of this chaos and 24/7 in-home, just to prove to myself that I am not in fact a messy person.

But whom am I doing it for? The ghost of H? Kind of makes me want to cry.

I am all about protective hairstyles, Disney +, olders watching littles, and my kids pulling their own weight around here. And those things have kept me going since homeschooling started in September. But I guess nearly three months in and I just need more... something. Time? Space? Autonomy? Another adult? Maybe I am just weak?

We are all suffering under the weight of this pandemic. I know I am not alone. I will get through this. I think everything is catching up with me.

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Lots of posts today! Thanks for bearing with me!

After feeling good about things between me and H and the coparenting R we were building, we had a major setback the past couple days and I am feeling pretty rotten about it all.

An issue with eldest that required me to ask H for help triggered the return of spewing, monstering, hateful, abusive H. I am detached enough to see that the request for help triggered all his guilt, shame and insecurities, but I guess I am not detached enough to deal with the abuse that results.

Yesterday we had to have a difficult conversation (I found out I was exposed to a Covid + person this past weekend) and he kept telling me he couldn't hear me and did I have my phone on WiFi calling? Did I know how to work my phone? Ugh, argh, sigh, eye roll, sigh, anger, all but saying out loud 'stupid Sage'. I am crying (because I am scared due to Covid exposure and children etc) and kept saying to him 'I am feeling vulnerable with this news, can you please speak to me kindly?' But of course I am talking to an angry brick wall and the conversation made me feel worse, not better.

And now I am awaiting Covid test results and feeling low (but healthy, fingers crossed!) and kind of helpless and so, so, so SICK of this MLC (or whatever) behavior, of being the bigger person and of constantly tapping into my depleted resources to find the best approach to dealing with an insecure, immature, mean man-child father of my children.

I feel depleted.

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(((sage)))

Originally Posted by Sage4
I am still haunted by H's list of things he doesn't like about me and on that list was that I am messy. I am triggered by it and am working myself to the bone to maintain a tidy house in the midst of this chaos and 24/7 in-home, just to prove to myself that I am not in fact a messy person.

But whom am I doing it for? The ghost of H? Kind of makes me want to cry.


Oh Sage. You know my H also said the same thing to me and it really does BURN. And I don't really know why... there are so many other things he said or could say that just would roll right off but this one triggers.

Can you parse out why it matters to you? And let it go?

In my sitch I have bobbled between working my @ss off to have the house spotless because F him, and then letting it go to total sh!t because also F him. (Not detached.) And right now it is a nightmare because we also decided, you know, to add some renovation to the stress of everything else and there is just cr@p EVERYWHERE.

For me, getting some handle on the clutter also helps to calm my mind, and so there are some things I've done to manage it somewhat without making myself nuts, now that I'm back to doing what I can manage and no more, knowing that H is fully capable of pulling his own weight in this department. If it helps:

-- I got a roomba which I LOVE (emptying it out is the most satisfying part of my day). When I first got it I would let it drive all around and put my feet up and drink a glass of wine and giggle to myself that I was vacuuming. Silly, I know, but hey. It made me feel good. Also, H never wanted a Roomba. So the having of it is totally for ME.

-- I got baskets and put them in each room and dump all the cr@p my kids and H leave around the house into the basket. My H also does not like this solution as he thinks things should go back where they belong, but I like it because it is very easy and fast and removes the clutter from my line of sight, therefore is calming to me. Every once in awhile I make the kids sort through the baskets and return things where they go.

-- Is there a space that is just yours that you can keep clean and calming, like maybe the MBR? And places you can simply close the door and stop worrying about for now, like the kids BRs?

I don't know if any of this is helpful at all-- just wanted to share what has been helping me in a similar spot.

And onto the phone call and the potential COVID exposure... first, HUGS. That is awful and terrifying and I know you are probably really stressing out about it. It absolutely svcks that you can't express this to the father of your children without him doing this. And yes, probably he feels scared and guilty and that he should be there and he can't and whatever whatever whatever... but that is his problem, not yours.

Gently... maybe it is time to stop the in-person and phone conversations for a bit and move to text and email. If he is unable to control himself without being cruel to you, there is no need to continue the conversation. Maybe interrupting him to say this conversation isn't going anywhere and we can continue it another time, and hang up? OR set the phone down and let him jabber to empty air for awhile until you feel better and can pick it back up? I know I have signed up to eat the $hit sandwiches in my sitch for now, but you don't have to. His problems are not yours to manage anymore. Remember how inspiring Alison is in not letting her H spew at her anymore? You can do that too. He has no right to treat you that way and YOU DO NOT NEED TO LISTEN TO IT.

In the moment, if you aren't able to end the conversation and feel you need to listen, here is another strategy I used when H was telling me crazy stuff and I was trying to paste a pleasant expression on my face and listen-- in my head, I would just say over and over, @sshole, @sshole, @sshole. Like a chant. Until he stopped talking. I also made up little songs that I still play in my head sometimes. I'm sure that isn't the healthiest or most evolved coping mechanism, but it allowed me to stop paying attention to the words he was saying and realize how ridiculous he was being, and that none of it was really about me.

I know you have a strong network IRL and I really hope you are pulling on it right now. (For some reason I think you live in Seattle or thereabouts.. no need to respond but that is where I grew up... but wishing right now that I could call you on the phone and listen or give you whatever support you need.) I also know you mentioned you're having a hard time being able to exercise and another little thing I started doing a year or more ago which has been a lifesaver is the 7 minute NYT exercises every morning. There's an app (the one I use is called seven) and it is just seven minutes but really, really helped me feel strong and more in shape. The kids fight over who sits on my feet for the crunches portion and we made up silly names for some of the exercises (which make us all laugh so not really super effective on the exercise part when the kids are there, but it is fun). Maybe your kids will want to do it with you too. Or, you can do it on your own while they watch Disney Plus. Just wondering if there are ways you can incorporate little self-care routines into your day to day without needing to rely on your H to kick in.

When you feel depleted, you need to prioritize filling your own tank. Be kind to yourself. HUGS.


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ExH complained about my housekeeping like it was his 2nd job. Now ask if he did a d@mn thing to help me. Part of the reason I knew H was the one was my housekeeping simply isn't on his radar. Even in the worst of it. Never a complaint. Never bemoaning me. Someone else who got on me about my cleaning skills was my step-father. I don't keep an immaculate house because to be completely honest cleaning triggers me. My step-father was a white glove test kind of guy. I had my face shoved against a toilet bowl because he couldn't eat off of it. I spent many, many years working on cleaning a) not triggering me b)not accepting someone bemoaning my housekeeping as a personal attack c)not valuing myself based on my ability to juggle being a mom, a partner, a full time employed adult, and a human being with keeping a super clean house. Take it from me. Don't let that ghost haunt you. He isn't worth living rent free in your head.

Also I'm with May the amount of communication you have with Mr. Crazy Pants is clearly detrimental to you. I wasn't friends with exH or H until they could be a friend to me. So what I have to say next I don't say to lay more at your feet, but I remember how much you once were home alone with those kiddos while you were married and H was traveling. I know he came home and you had some relief. Can you sit and recall those days? Can you think about what would make your life easier during those times. How you got through all that time alone with even younger children you have now? I'm not demanding you take on the burden of 4 children with no back up, but I just want you to know you are dealing with an unstable co-parent and over the next few years if not more you are going to be on this road alone more often than not. He will be unreliable. He won't be there you when you need him. He won't be there when the kids need him. Sometimes he will. Sometimes he'll be exactly who you need him to be, but that isn't going to be a guarantee. I think it would be good to dig deep and start thinking about how you're going to manage this completely on your own. Who will be reliable. Who will support you when you need it. What is Sage's life going to look like with out H in it?

You shouldn't have to do this alone. You don't deserve this. You should be supported. You should have time to breathe. But that just might not be you're reality here and you should probably start thinking about what your new normal is going to look like.

And like May said. Over all be kind to yourself. Radical self love. xoxoxo

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I don't keep an immaculate house because to be completely honest cleaning triggers me. My step-father was a white glove test kind of guy. I had my face shoved against a toilet bowl because he couldn't eat off of it.


Oh wayfarer - that's awful. If I may suggest, if it's ever in your budget to do so, a cleaning service twice a month would probably be worth every cent to you, to avoid those triggering memories.

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Originally Posted by Sage4
And now I am awaiting Covid test results and feeling low (but healthy, fingers crossed!) and kind of helpless and so, so, so SICK of this MLC (or whatever) behavior, of being the bigger person and of constantly tapping into my depleted resources to find the best approach to dealing with an insecure, immature, mean man-child father of my children.

I feel depleted.


Hey Sage, just want to wish you good luck on the Covid test, and reassure you that you can do this. You may not win mother of the year, but you will keep those kiddos alive and well.

I second wayfarer on start accepting the reality that you can only count on yourself now. no expectations of H "doing the right thing". My H will still help sometimes, but he is not definitely the most reliable.


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Hi everyone, thank you for your advice and support... I tested Covid - on day 6 and remain symptom-free so unlikely I have it. Hooray! Still in quarantine until 14 days since exposure pass, but I am feeling OK about it all.

It does mean that H is the only other adult I could spend Thanksgiving with and we have decided that we will spend it together as a family. Our interactions have improved since the 'Covid Day' and this feels like the best thing for me at the moment. The kids are excited about Thanksgiving and I don't really feel like doing it all on my own. These days I feel I can be happy and myself even when H is around. And so far, it has been about 2 months since in-person spewing happened, so it feels even safer than being on the phone at the moment.

We had another suspicion episode (while I was under quarantine... go figure), but I have decided to take the higher road on his jealousy and just explain my whereabouts or what I was up to as nonchalantly as if it were my mom asking. Maybe if we weren't in a global pandemic I would tell him to mind his own business, but for now this is the approach I am taking.

He asked me to pick up the kids the other night and when I arrived, he invited me in for a glass of wine and a chat, a first at his place (and the reason why he asked me to pick them up, but I didn't know it at the time). We talked about the schedule this week and some holiday-related stuff, but it felt easy and comfortable. These sorts of interactions are good tests to my detachment (I think I prefer non-attachment, but you guys know what I mean). How to experience them without any projections of what H is thinking or feeling. No expectations protect me the most.

H has been helping with homeschooling the past few days. I have been able to exercise almost daily. May, I love NYT's 7 min exercises... thanks for turning me onto them again! Also, 10-20-30 is another gem that I learned via NYT for HIIT workouts. I am truly not an exercise junkie, but these little bursts of endorphins are critical to my mental well-being, especially now.

And f*** the house. Wayfarer, I am so sorry for what your Stepdad did to you and it helped put it all in perspective for me. I am giving myself permission to clean if I need to for my own mental health and just leave it if I don't. I don't want H's monster comment of a year ago to be a trigger for me any longer. I am a single mom with four kids that I am homeschooling with very little help... I would never, ever judge another person about the cleanliness of their home so in what cruel world am I allowing so much self-judgement on this issue? And even more importantly I don't want my daughters to be defined by their ability to maintain a perfect home or not so I better start leading my example.

And helpfully, the kids and I came up with a point system for earning screen time. There is a list of things relating to both school and household chores; half the earned points are non-negotiable and the other half are chores that they can choose from to accrue their screen time. They were good about chores prior to this, but it has really upped the ante and they love that they are now being rewarded for their efforts (I am one of those moms that doesn't monetize chores... they live here, they can help out without pay like I do). And earning lots of extra points earns them more screen time so they are super motivated.

Happy Thanksgiving to all my US friends.
Wishing you all, health and happiness!

xx

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Thanksgiving was a mixed bag for me. H arrived 2 hours later than he said he would, which is not something he would ever do to anyone else in his life, manners mean so much to him. I felt disrespected, but didn't show it and let it go.

I had to run out to grab something from my mom's house. I would have done so prior to his arrival if I knew he was going to be so late, but I decided to wait until he got to my house so eldest wouldn't have to babysit. Another Spanish Inquisition ensued: why didn't I ask him to grab said item on his way? What was I actually doing there? Was I being safe (as in not kissing someone? Having a 1 second quickie? For heavens sake!)? etc etc. I really wanted the 20 mins to myself to have a quick cry about him being late and not having the courtesy to let me know. He lied to me about why he was late, outed himself within three sentences, which was a double stab.

We had a pleasant dinner and some good conversations, but he left early. All I have been craving for the past 12 days of quarantine was some adult company and I would have accepted other offers if I knew he was going to be so quick to leave. I have a hunch he went home to call OW, or whatever she is.

My wise child said later 'mama, I see that Daddy wants to be around you, hugs you and acts like he wants the divorce to go away and then he starts to act weird again. That must be really confusing for you and probably makes you really sad.' What did I do to deserve these wise children?

Another Spanish Inquisition this morning when he came to collect the kids for the day/evening. I gently confronted him by asking if we could talk and said that his suspicions scared me, that I had no control of his narrative despite my transparency and asked what he needed from me. I know that is a redundant question that he can't answer, and it was probably way to generous of me to ask in the first place, but it was the only way I felt at the time I could deflect his questions. He managed to turn it around on me before rescinding his 'yes' to talking about it. I accepted that he didn't want to talk and walked away with no bitterness.

I am feeling low, confused and not so detached at the moment. I think I need to come up with some sort of conversation to stop this whole projection from being mine to deal with. Any suggestions welcome.

x

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