S came home very late last night. I now know more.
First things first - she says she'll cancel the couples counseling appointment for next Tuesday. We are very much on edge with each other in our interactions. Lots of unspoken words makes things very uncomfortable. I'm doing my best to be supportive but also not pretending that there are no issues.
I think that we / I may be on the hook for a number of expenses. The insurance policies are modest and one may well be stuck in probate as it may still list his wife (dead for 10 years) as the beneficiary. Goes to show that some people aren't as organized as you might think. A small policy will cover the basic death expenses at least and those funds are going to be available soon-ish.
I do think that the phrase "Easy to love, hard to live with" fits this situation to a "T" - more or less - more below.
S made some comments that could have been interpreted as snarky about how nice and peaceful the house must have been and how I must have enjoyed keeping things tidy. I chose to treat them positively and did agree that it was indeed nice and quiet.
She'll probably be leaving again either on Sunday or Monday and will probably be gone most of the week.
S did post a couple of pictures on social media of her Dad along with an announcement today from Thanksgiving and surprisingly one has me in it.
-------------------- I did some reading back as I do from time to time, this time with a specific purpose. My heavens - what a cautionary tale - of cautions clearly stated and then ignored by our intrepid hero.
I think that if menopause hadn't hit that as doodler kept suggesting, a baby might have been involved given the aggressive tactics and timetable.
10-Aug-19 (estimated) Mention to cafe staff (including S's daughter) that I'm now single again First contact 25-Aug-19 Asks me out 5-Sep-19 after I am friendly but not obviously interested First date 29-Sep-19 2nd Date the next Saturday and first kiss - initiated by S.
Engaged 25-January. I found the post https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883176 S and I were having an argument. She is after me because I am working myself too hard and she's worried about me, especially my health. Wants to help me but I won't let her. Pushes me hard, I had been planning on waiting until mid-summer for the engagement to give her time for her divorce plus to make sure it was the right thing. Timeline now expedited.
Couldn't find the post specifically on the moving in. She spends quite a bit of time here, especially after the engagement and spends multiple days at a stretch here soon bringing the dog and her youngest along with her plus a lot of "stuff" back and forth. By March the dog is moved in and S is spending much of her time along with her youngest. Her second youngest is left at the apartment.
Comments are made about my son moving out so that they can move in. I resist.
I can't put my finger on the exact post but sometime around mid-April we have another fight where S is upset that I'm vague about when she can move in. The particular event was just after I made a comment after she had spent 3 consecutive days here that I had thought we were still dating and she storms off and then loses (?) her engagement ring.
She comes back to visit - we fight some more with S saying that she wants to give notice on her apartment but because I'm vague she doesn't know for when. By this time my son had his apartment and so I make the decision that move-in is the long weekend in May.
A pattern. Easily visible to everyone including me now. One that I know that I'm vulnerable to. Upset pretty girl who uses guilt on me, I fix things.
One to watch for and manage. 'Cuz it's going to happen again. And for women looking on how to "land a man" - this does work, but leaves them resentful.
We have a "lot" of work to do. S made a comment today again that she really likes how things are tidy and that I like tidy. Right now she's doing some sorting and organizing.
Well - time to post. We just had a tornado warning but down here in the valley I'm not worried.
"Interesting times" indeed.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Ok, Andrew....far be it from me to take it easy on you. Why in the world would "we" be on the hook for things related to her dad's death, particularly if she has been stashing money and not contributing to other household stuff. I realize now is not the time to play tit for tat, but this one should seriously be on her to figure out and not further entangle you or needlessly empty your personal coffers. That isn't right. I would like to say surely she knows that, but I know that is a pointless statement as even if she does know it, she likely doesn't care and you are too nice a guy to say no.
I'm honestly glad to see that you are reading back and seeing what we were all saying all along. I don't say that in the spirit of "I told you so" because even I am not that harsh, but more in the spirit of I hope that helps your learn different ways moving forward so that you may not get yourself in quite an encumbrance next time around. I am not the least bit surprised that you think her lost ring came at such a weird coincidental juncture, but I recall at the time how you explained it away as being like her. (There may be a small "I told you so" here, but I'll just let it go...……)
As far as pretty girls using guilt on you and your fixing it....stop that right now! Easier said than done, I know, but I hope all of this with S will serve as a cautionary tale for you moving forward to be more wary of that kind of behavior and maybe try NOT to give into it.
You are who you are and you, by nature, are a nice guy and a rescuer, so I KNOW it is very easy for me (or anyone else for that matter) to sit here and tell you what to do or not do, but it is something that you have to figure out for yourself. I just hope that you will look up all that you have lost and given up because of this one guilting you and think twice about how you respond with the next one.
(((Andrew))) I so wish I could wave a magic wand and help you make this all go away. Patience, my friend. Good things come to those who wait.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
Ummm, why are you on the hook for anything to do with her father’s death? You aren’t married to her and he wasn’t your father in law. Perhaps her current husband should be on the hook??
Seriously. The expenses that arise from her fathers passing are not yours to incur. You have already incurred most of her expenses
Andrew, please do not offer any financial help. You already co-'signed for her. This is a S's family matter. She can ask uncles, aunts, cousins or even her kids for help. At least, they' ll have a better chance of getting their money back. You on the other hand will never see a dime of it. She has given you the duty to provide for her family, fully and completely. And what exactly is her part and duty?
Help her by offering her ideas and options she can use to get this money ON HER OWN! Let her be the RESPONSIBLE ADULT she should be.
S came home very late last night. I now know more.
First things first - she says she'll cancel the couples counseling appointment for next Tuesday. We are very much on edge with each other in our interactions. Lots of unspoken words makes things very uncomfortable. I'm doing my best to be supportive but also not pretending that there are no issues.
exactly when it's time to go to counseling, not cancel... please keep that appointment.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Andrew, there are more red flags here than at a Chinese rally. I can't believe you can't see them and to be blunt, I don't believe you can't see them either.
I 100% agree with bttrfly. You need to address your very obvious co-dependency issues.
Do not offer to assist in paying the bills of her father and the estate. If anyone should be coughing up money, it is her sibling(s). You are not married to her, in fact, she's still married to someone else.
If I were in your shoes, I would keep the counseling appointment even if you have to go by yourself. It's well worth the time and money to try to sort out things that have been waving red flags since move in day back in May. It would be a good time for you to lay everything out on the table w/o her being there to throw a hissy fit.
Please, please listen to the posters...her father's funeral expenses, etc., are not your responsibility. You've taken on way too much of the responsibility already that should be squarely on S's shoulders.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
So if there’s a small policy that covers the funeral expenses, why do you have to spend any money? Please don’t pay the probate costs. That’s on her and her brother. They will be the ones benefiting from it.
If the will specifies the house is split 50:50, it should be sold ASAP. But I’m betting S plans to stay there as much/long as possible. Which will, of course, reduce the value of the home.
Presumably her father’s retirement savings/bank accounts will also be split - that money should be relatively easy to get if they are specified as beneficiaries. If the beneficiary of the larger life insurance policy is a wife who was not S’s mother then that money might go to her heirs, whoever they may be.
I would stay out of it as much as possible except where it affects you directly.
As for the possibly snarky responses to you cleaning the house - just so you know, the proper response of someone who is not a hoarder but simply overwhelmed with the job of organizing might have been “ Andrew, the house looks great. I’m SORRY I haven’t been more help with getting it done”.
Instead you got a defensive response - and that comes from either the hoarding or the reactivity against her dad
Just a thought experiment for you, Andrew - what would be a good outcome for YOU of couples counseling? Are you hoping the therapist can convince her not to be a hoarder? To get a job? To pull her weight?
Because if that’s the outcome you’re hoping for, I think it’s very unlikely to happen. Hoarders are difficult to treat and usually aren’t interested in changing until things are intolerable to them, which doesn’t really happen much.
If your goal in counseling is to reach some kind of equilibrium between her hoarding and your happiness- that’s not likely to happen - I’d guess you’re always going to lose that one.
I know I haven’t listed all the possible outcomes - my point is just to think hard about what a really good outcome would look like to you, and whether that’s feasible.
