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AAA10 Offline OP
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thanks for insight valeska19-- I am arriving at some of those same conclusions. I started IC two weeks ago. regarding tantrums/rants-- it is a pattern of behavior that has existed between me and h for many years. seems that is how we learned to argue and it is a terrible cycle that needs to be broken. it isn't a way I behave to anyone other than him-- which is strange. emotional regulation is challenging for me. it is worse at certain times of the month as I also suffer from PMDD

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AAA10 Offline OP
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today we engaged in an informational session with a discernment counselor. he talked with each of us for about 25-30 minutes to see if it was a good fit. next step would be an intense 2 hour session followed by about 4 other sessions where we work to choose one of three paths 1- as is 2- divorce 3- reconcile.

after h and I had a really good talk-- he is willing to start this process but really is uncertain that he can be open enough for it to matter. he is about 99/1 in favor of divorce.

while talking we realized that our pattern is for me to get stressed; to feel insecure, alone like I can't be comforted by him bc of his affairs; which leads me to lash out to protect myself which leaves him beat down over and over …
it is a cancer!

we had a talk where he explained that there is just too much damage and he doesn't think I will ever be capable of feeling secure and that an affair is not going to pop up again. he is never going to feel secure that I am not going to rage and lash out at him. he doesn't think there is a fix for this that will allow us both to be fully happy and would rather try to work through figuring out how to be great coparents…

so-- given this... what does one do. I know I am suppose to detach but does that mean, close the door on this opportunity for counseling? this is kinda a big revelation, do I just GAL and carry on and agree with his divorce. I don't know how to implement the strategies of DB here. help??

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A,

So let me flip this around. If you disagree with the divorce what do you think would happen? Would it stop it? Sounds like he is going to counseling with the mindset to divorce you. Is that something you are interested in paying money for right now? Are you interested in coparenting counseling?

If he’s cheated on you multiple times it’s unlikely to stop. Serial cheaters seldom change and it gets easier and easier every time they do it. I’m sorry.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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AAA10 Offline OP
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Thanks for the reply
My goal is to use the techniques of DB to stop this divorce and keep my family together and improve my marraige. I just am not sure how it works in this context where you have someone who will agree to outside help to help sort through options and the decision to stay or divorce or to just throw hands up and detach-- let him move out, agree on temporary custody and start splitting stuff up and detach. that is what I feel my options are.

I might sound naïve, but I do not think his is cheating. he has been In counseling for three years after the last episode-- he is not a cheating person but ended up getting really really depressed and lost between issues in our marriage, work stress, losing a parent and sought out an escape.

The first time he did this was 12 years ago-- and it likely was because of getting in the same state of mind trying to juggle being new parents and marriage-- but no one addressed it and everyone just dismissed it and as a one off- poor choice, won't happen again. even he said "I didn't ever think I was capable of that and now that I know I am, I now I need to protect myself." so the underlying issues were never addressed I also think it was dismissed because it didn't get a sexual relationship … three years ago it happens again, this time a sexual relationship but with another married woman with kids … he wasn't looking to leave the relationship just escape all his bad feelings.... so he went to therapy, gave me access to everything (phone, computer, became accountable, addressed depression, etc). the counselor he had told him that marital counseling really needed to wait until he worked on himself, so we didn't start it... which left me just hanging on with all these horrible feelings and no help to cope... which resulted in anger that would come at him in a rage about once every other month. the rest of the time, we were great at getting along, spending time together, taking care of our family, eating dinner, every night. he would leave me "love you" notes, bring my coffee to me, journal to me. In jan 2020 he took me to the beach and wrote "will you marry me" in the sand and we started wearing our rings again. he kept saying he wanted to work on our marriage but didn't know quite how. and wanted to be closer, but didn't know what to do...
meanwhile, I have been struggling for 3 years to deal with the pain and hurt and feeling like I can't trust or be vulnerable- vulnerable turned to angry rages
angry rage- make h retract further
further retraction leads to angry rage
repeat repeat

and our communication is so poor-- he suppresses and can't share feelings so nothing every really was discussed- swept under the rug because he felt like if he shared anything I would just make me angry.

it all makes so much sense now-- of course, once he says it is too late and has 1.5 feet out the door. So, I feel like there is a solution to this and that we should try to address it. he just wants to walk away and start a new life.

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Originally Posted by AAA10

we had a talk where he explained that there is just too much damage and he doesn't think I will ever be capable of feeling secure and that an affair is not going to pop up again. he is never going to feel secure that I am not going to rage and lash out at him. he doesn't think there is a fix for this that will allow us both to be fully happy and would rather try to work through figuring out how to be great coparents…

so-- given this... what does one do. I know I am suppose to detach but does that mean, close the door on this opportunity for counseling? this is kinda a big revelation, do I just GAL and carry on and agree with his divorce. I don't know how to implement the strategies of DB here. help??

[/quote]

I get this... I too got "I will never give the chance to hurt me like that again... I would not survive it"

We were both guilty for the crappy cycle... He would feel disrespected and act like a total arse which would leave me feeling extremely unloved and continue to behave awfully to him.

Sure, I can step outside and see where I contributed to this and how he internalized this to where he felt neglected and rejected... I internalized his actions where my self esteem and feeling worthy of him were destroyed. I understand where his feelings were coming from and I'm learning to stay on my side of the street.

Has he noticed my changes??? He hasn't ever felt the need to let me know if he has. He also moved out months ago so our interactions over business are nil (no shared kids.)

All I can do is be consistent over time - that I can and will be different moving forward.

He is either willing to risk it again or he is not. I cannot focus on that.

HUGS

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AAA10 Offline OP
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thanks kitcat. I am going to check our your post. maybe something I can learn

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I don't see a problem with attending discernment therapy. Even though your H seems to have made up his mind - you just never know.

That is not to say that you should have Hope or that you shouldn't detach. Just that it gives you time and time is what you need right now.

Your H has been in therapy for 3 years. Why did you not attend your own IC? Most therapists recommend some solid IC before MC so why didn't you get help with your feelings?

I'm sorry AAA but tantrum throwing is a learned behavior. Usually from our parents so I can't imagine that you don't express anger in unhealthy ways other than in your marriage. You would be the ONLY one on the planet if that's true.

I think there is a fine you are going to need to walk between looking at what you did wrong and not turning yourself into a villain. Your H made choices that were wrong and that is for him to own one day. Your too made choices that were wrong that you must own. You cannot control your H's journey or decisions, you only can control yours.

If there is truth behind what he is saying - than address it and fix it within yourself. But if you do that with an expectation that your H will return - it will back fire.. big time. That's why the IC is so important... you will learn that the biggest person your anger/tantrums hurt is NOT your H - rather it is YOURSELF and you will gain the tools/value to change that.

The best way you could ever have a chance at saving your marriage is to save yourself first. That's going to take time and alot of hard work... and fighting the need to try and put your marriage/H first.


M(f): 38
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
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Originally Posted by AAA10
thanks kitcat. I am going to check our your post. maybe something I can learn



HAHA -- learn how to NOT be a total nut job... do the opposite of what I'm doing! smile

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The problem is that if you DB to save your marriage, you will rarely be successful. If you DB to save yourself, sometimes (I suggest it is about 50/50, some take issue and say the odds are worse) the marriage will also be saved.

But here is the thing, the alternative to DBing is pressure and pursuit, and that works less than 1% of the time. That is why MC never works in these cases because MC is pressure and pursuit. You are going to this therapy to try and change his mind on D. He is going to get you to agree to D. Even if he grudgingly agrees to try it will be half-hearted and he won't try very hard. He won't do the homework the MC assigns. There will be little hope that the MC will make a dent, and will end up being a waste time of money.

"I have decided that MC at this point would be a waste of time. Instead I will start/continue IC for myself."

Make that statement to him. Pull the plug on discernment therapy. Trust the DB process.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
The problem is that if you DB to save your marriage, you will rarely be successful. If you DB to save yourself, sometimes (I suggest it is about 50/50, some take issue and say the odds are worse) the marriage will also saved

I don’t think anyone takes issue it’s just that the numbers are completely false. It’s probably more like 10% at best.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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