The no relationship talks. I am a natural avoider of conflict. Its easy for me to ignore and avoid. What is the thinking behind not bringing relationship talks up at all? Its not me crying and whimpering and begging. Its more of tackling the issue to work together and make decisions.
I don't get defensive. I've learned to manage that. I try to listen well, be curious, and learn more about the situation. The talk we had, while hard, was actually the first time we had connected in some time.
My understanding is that you avoid the relationship talks for two reasons: First, no pressure. You don't want to pursue, because that will push them away. Second, you can't be begging, and crying, and pleading with them to stay. That makes you look weak and no one wants to be with that person.
Are there other reasons as well that I might not be thinking of?
The three biggest things she's dealing with right now are fear and uncertainty about the future, guilt for what she's doing to you and your children, and anger and resentment over your role in pushing her to this point. Everything you do right now is going to make her either more resentful, or less resentful. If you increase her guilt, by blaming, shaming, or making her responsible for your emotional state, she's going to resent you more. If you pursue her, argue with her, or try to convince her to work with you on the marriage, she's going to resent you for not letting her go and not giving her the space she wants.
If you give her space, it’s going to make her less resentful. If you live your own life, and are happy and joyful for your own sake, it’s going to make her less resentful. If you are respectful in your communications with her, but not intimate, it’s going to make her less resentful.
Eventually she will burn through that big pile of resentment. Eventually she will process her anger at you and it will dissipate. UNTIL she goes through both of those processes, she will not see you as anything other than she believes you to be based on her prior training.
If she thinks you wear blue every day, and you start wearing red, she's still going to think of you as the guy that wears blue, because she literally can't see you right now.
WHILE she is processing her anger and resentment, YOU work on your changes. You do it slowly and methodically for you. If you're a 2 today, you don't focus on being a 10, you focus on being a 3. Then you focus on being a 4. You be kind to yourself.
While her anger and resentment are burning down, your changes are building up. When eventually she's had enough time and space that she can SEE YOU again, she'll be surprised by what she sees, and she'll question for the first time the assumptions she has held about you. THAT is the beginning of your opportunity to turn things around, but you CANNOT control how long it will take her to process her anger and resentment, and you CANNOT accelerate it.
Buckle your seatbelt, it’s a marathon and you have to be patient and surrender to the fact that this relationship is NOT something you can control right now. That's an uncomfortable feeling, but the sooner you own that fact, the better you'll do.
The no relationship talks. I am a natural avoider of conflict. Its easy for me to ignore and avoid. What is the thinking behind not bringing relationship talks up at all? Its not me crying and whimpering and begging. Its more of tackling the issue to work together and make decisions.
I don't get defensive. I've learned to manage that. I try to listen well, be curious, and learn more about the situation. The talk we had, while hard, was actually the first time we had connected in some time.
My understanding is that you avoid the relationship talks for two reasons: First, no pressure. You don't want to pursue, because that will push them away. Second, you can't be begging, and crying, and pleading with them to stay. That makes you look weak and no one wants to be with that person.
Are there other reasons as well that I might not be thinking of?
#1 reason to me is that no good comes from it. You aren't going to learn more. You can't trust a thing she says. WASs are notorious for saying what benefits them in the moment. They may say something nice, to manipulate you. Or they may lie to cover their tracks or protect your feelings. The point is that you can't rely on words, so R talks are fruitless. As Ginger says, being an avoider doesn't mean starting an R talk is a 180. Do not use 180s as an excuse to break DB principles.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well, I decided to go ahead and call the mediator to get that set up as I said I would. I figure I need to get her to a mindset where she feels as though I'm letting go. I think LH was saying that I need to get her to a place where she can work through stuff and not be fighting me and this seems like a way to do that. I've also heard that some people as they go through the mediation process start talking more and because they are working on things together they turn them around.
I'll admit I'm not very hopeful. I think for her the idea that she isn't in love with me anymore is it. She's focused on herself and no one else. And again as LH has said, she wants that emotional high again that she felt with the EA. I think there is probably some truth to that as well.
I was reflecting today on the last year and we have literally gone no where. No change in our relationship for better or worse. Hovering between a 1-3 on a scale to ten.
The good news though, is that I got to spend every day with my kids for another year. I think about that every day. And every day we stay together is another day I get to be with my kids full time.
At this point I don't expect to save my marriage, deep down I know there really is a very limited chance, maybe 5% best case - But I do get to see those kids every day.
And I do still have feeling for her, I kind of wish I didn't.
Tonight I'm going to go to a men's group that I'm a part of to continue to work on GAL.
Well, I decided to go ahead and call the mediator to get that set up as I said I would. I figure I need to get her to a mindset where she feels as though I'm letting go.
WRONG! You need to let her go. Whether she has a mindset where she feels it or not is immaterial. Stop doing things, even the right things, to effect a change in her. You let her go because that is the right DB move to make. Forget her mindset or feelings.
Originally Posted by ScottB
I think LH was saying that I need to get her to a place where she can work through stuff and not be fighting me and this seems like a way to do that. I've also heard that some people as they go through the mediation process start talking more and because they are working on things together they turn them around.
No you give her to space to work through stuff. Whether she does or not is up to her. You are still trying to control what you cannot!!
Also, do not go through the mediation process with any expectations except that it will end in your divorce. Again, you are trying to manipulate and control the situation.
Originally Posted by ScottB
I'll admit I'm not very hopeful. I think for her the idea that she isn't in love with me anymore is it. She's focused on herself and no one else. And again as LH has said, she wants that emotional high again that she felt with the EA. I think there is probably some truth to that as well.
I disagree. Everything you type screams desperate hope! "I need to get her to mindset where she feels...." "I need to get her to a place where she can work through stuff..." That screams desperation and putting hope in doing the right thing for the wrong reason will yield fruit. SPOILER ALERT: It won't!
It isn't a "I think there is truth", what LH said is dead on. When a W is a WW, and their EA/PA ends, then are on to find their next hit. I saw that with my W. She was looking for OM#2. This is why you back off, focus on you, and leave her alone. Waywardness is not something you can guide her through, she has to come out of it on her own. And that may take years.
Originally Posted by ScottB
I was reflecting today on the last year and we have literally gone no where. No change in our relationship for better or worse. Hovering between a 1-3 on a scale to ten.
This is because you have DB poorly. And DB'd for the wrong reason. You DB to save yourself. In doing so, your marriage might get saved as well. It might not. But once you are saved you will be surprised at how unimportant saving the marriage becomes to you!
Originally Posted by ScottB
The good news though, is that I got to spend every day with my kids for another year. I think about that every day. And every day we stay together is another day I get to be with my kids full time.
Good! They should be your #1 priority (short of God but not everyone is religious). ANd you should be right behind them in your priority list. Saving your marriage should not make the top 100 at this point.
Originally Posted by ScottB
At this point I don't expect to save my marriage, deep down I know there really is a very limited chance, maybe 5% best case - But I do get to see those kids every day.
Then stop holding on for dear life! IF this is true, then your actions should follow this belief.
Originally Posted by ScottB
And I do still have feeling for her, I kind of wish I didn't.
Not a problem unless you let those guide your actions. REmember, work on detachment!
Originally Posted by ScottB
Tonight I'm going to go to a men's group that I'm a part of to continue to work on GAL.
GOOD! Second best thing you've posted in this post behind the comment about your kids!
Last edited by Steve85; 10/20/2002:16 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well, I decided to go ahead and call the mediator to get that set up as I said I would. I figure I need to get her to a mindset where she feels as though I'm letting go.
You don't do that by pushing D through, because she will see it as yet another trick to try and get her back. And you basically admit it is here:
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I've also heard that some people as they go through the mediation process start talking more and because they are working on things together they turn them around.
No it doesn't work that way. If you push D through then she will happily let you do all the work for her. You're grasping at straws when you should be detaching, pulling back and leaving her alone. A lot of LBS's make this mistake where they beg and plead and all that trying to get the WAS back, and when it doesn't work then they resort to pushing the D through to "wake her up". Then when that doesn't work they reverse course yet again. It all just looks desperate to the WAS, it doesn't look like detachment at all.
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I'll admit I'm not very hopeful. I think for her the idea that she isn't in love with me anymore is it. She's focused on herself and no one else.
This is probably the case. You have to leave her alone to take that journey,
I need to get her to a place where she can work through stuff and not be fighting me and this seems like a way to do that. I've also heard that some people as they go through the mediation process start talking more and because they are working on things together they turn them around.
Hi Scott, the best way to get out of her way, is to actually get out of her way. Don't fight D. Don't help D. Let go and she can do the work to D or not do the work to D as she sees fit. I recall other situations here where a LBS tried to "prove a 180" by helping with D, and none that worked out well for the LBS.
I assume I just leave the mediation thing alone now. She’ll probably send us dates soon. I could call and tell her not to, but I assume the take from here is just leave it be.
Do I drag my feet on scheduling? Or do i schedule it right away? My gut says schedule it right away.
Next sitch: I have some friends going to breckenridge to go skiing in January. Normally, I would never go because she would have to watch the kids a couple days and i don’t want to put her out. Do I ask to go? Do I tell her I’m going? Do I ignore it and just tell the guys I can’t make it?
