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Less than a week on this thread - wow. Just wow. So much support - it's greatly appreciated. I'm going to let this burn through.
Originally Posted by dream
I did not know a sacrifice you made was your brothers. That is so very sad. Did you mention this before?
I missed this part of the story as well. Please elaborate!
Not much to elaborate on. My brothers and I - all of whom live locally - didn't have a lot to do with each other when I was married. It bothered me but there never seemed to be "time" and if I wanted to point fingers, most normal family events involved my in-laws. My brothers as well never made any effort to reach out to me either. Not that we had issues or anything, just busy people with active lives. We've never been an "all gather around" sort of family unlike many. The sense of "family" or perhaps more accurately "clan" is pretty substantial though as undoubtedly my ex found out after she cheated as I have a "lot" of relatives and I'm sure that the walls went up quick and the fingers got pointing.
After bomb-day, my brothers rallied around as did their wives. Around the time I started dating S I had a massive falling out with one of my sister-in-laws that probably will never be mended and then my own time was consumed again being involved in the day to day and finding time to spend with my brothers and their family is gone again.
I don't think it's a deliberate program of isolation any more than it was during my marriage, just that I am allowing my own self to be minimized.
Originally Posted by dream
Would you consider staying together if S moves out? I think that's the best chance for your relationship to work out. It's not uncommon for couples to be together for many years and not live together.
No. While I am ok with having an amicable relationship with an ex-partner and perhaps would be happy having a "living apart together" relationship eventually, that is off the table with her and I can't see it being something she would be interested in either. She's very much attached to the concept of having a "partner / husband" I would think. And having someone that takes care of everything to be frank.
Originally Posted by kml
And the flip side is - she will hopefully inherit enough that she will be able to afford to move into an apartment.
One of the things that bothered me a bit when we were first dating was that S - perhaps to reassure me that she wouldn't be a financial burden - did talk about her Dad's passing and her getting a substantial legacy from that. Not independently wealthy legacy, but certainly something that could allow her to be financially independent through to 65 when other social programs would kick in. I checked the real-estate listings in that area and houses go for about 3 times what they do here so even if she had to split it 50-50 with her brother there should be lots left over. Her parents were very good with money and to the best of my knowledge there's no outstanding debts. Her Dad had even just bought himself a new car which perhaps is still on it's first tank of gas and it's probably paid for.
Perhaps that's just me and my own upbringing. My own parents essentially left no estate and none of us expected anything. Yes, my youngest brother did buy the family farm for cheap prior to their passing, but he was the one who wanted it. But the concept that you are hovering like a vulture over the still warm and still moving loved one waiting for your piece is something that bothers me a lot. My ex-wife's family was all about that too with her Dad especially playing one kid off against the other on who will get what.
The core issues remain - the mechanics have perhaps shifted. Once the estate is sorted out - which will probably take some time - S will have the means to be independent, able to afford a storage locker or three for however much stuff she wants to keep. I may suggest that she get one locally to her Dad's house rather than trying to stuff everything in here. Her brother has stated (again long before now) that he just wants everything put up for auction including the heirlooms and get his cash.
S is off sometime today with D26 and I believe that D19 may also be showing up to head down and start dealing with things. She said she'll possibly be gone for a couple of days. I did offer to come along if she wanted me but also said that I was ok with keeping the home fires going as it were. The reality is that I have no place in this matter other than to provide emotional support and perhaps practical for S - which her daughters will be more capable of.
A nice person on another forum who happens to have ADD gave me some links to some resources and also some thoughts on how they as an adult managed their own ADD. A lot of the things that bother me resonated clearly. An imposed artificial structure worked well for them and S has been told to do similar things by her own therapist but the attempts all petered out. I have some more reading to do.
One of my key relationship flaws I think is not at all that I have a "need" to have someone in my life, nor I think that I wasn't healed after my marriage, it's my belief that I can make pretty much anything work. I'm easy-going, I like to think easy to live with, and don't believe in soul mates nor perfect matches. That's one of the reasons I feel that my marriage lasted so long. I can easily see living perfectly happily with a number of personality types and there was nothing unique or special about S that causes her to be "the one". She just happened to be "a" one who was attracted to me (a requirement) who appeared to have a kind heart and had her baggage all sorted. Man-o-man was I wrong about #3.
Second last day of vacation - put in a couple of hours of work this morning getting caught up. S started making turkey stock yesterday - I'll finish it up. No clue when she's on her way out - still in bed. I'm trying to decide if I'll pick up some beer for my bachelor evening - maybe.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I am so sorry to read that S's father has passed away. One thing for sure, there are some good memories to keep close to the heart for her and the children as he did come and spend Thanksgiving w/all of you. There is going to be a lot of work to get everything done at her father's place and yes, even dealing w/her family concerning the estate as well as the funeral. It's not going to be easy.
Maybe she'll opt to move into her father's home if it's big enough. I can't even imagine bringing home more stuff, but I'm sure it's going to take some time to sift through all of that stuff and determine what is tossed, donated and kept.
You are wise to stay on the sidelines because it just might get ugly.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I think it's wise to suggest she get a storage locker near the house. Definitely don't let her start dragging a bunch of stuff back to your house. And she definitely shouldn't start living there - nothing would drag down the resale value of that house faster than her trashing it by living there. They should get it on the market while it's still pristine and clean from him living there.
If the will is written as a 50:50 split between siblings she should be very careful (who am I kidding you should tell her DAUGHTER to be very careful!) to record everything and catalogue everything. Odds are the brother won't actually know what most of the "heirlooms" are,so the everyday stuff that S wants is probably fair game (wouldn't bring much in a sale anyway). Bigger, better documented items may be a bone of contention. Tell them to get more copies of the death certificate than they think they will need - I believe I got 6 and it was just barely enough. She also should carefully document all her expenses as executor (like hiring a gardener or cleaning service to keep the house looking good while it's on the market etc.) as her brother sounds like he will be a pain. (Also, though, bear in mind that the brother knows who he is dealing with and therefore may have some very legitimate concerns that S may lie to him, cheat him out of something, or just be very ineffectual at taking care of the estate).
I know your instinct is a hands-off approach but it might serve you to either helo her organize the paperwork around this or help her daughter do so.
An appraiser of some kind may be worthwhile as the brother will probably claim the furnishings have more worth than they really have -- so having an appraisal in hand as to the resale value of things can save a lot of issues.
She should follow the will - her natural instinct might be to cheat but what that might cost her in legal costs and aggravation isn't worth it.
Also - it's not under your control but expect her to do dumb things with the money when she gets it. After all, she's a shopaholic - only now she could afford to shop in fancier places. If you can, convince her to pay off her debts first, and maybe put the rest in some kind of safe investment that she can't easily touch the principle (or, if you've bitten the bullet and told her to move, put it into an inexpensive house or condo - sounds like her half of his house would buy her that).
People who are bad with money usually think a windfall will go further than it really does. (For instance, a million dollars invested for a lifetime income only really safely generates $40,000 a year but most people would think they were rich and could go out and live it up if they won a million dollars. )
Oh - and I'm with you on the whole waiting for an inheritance thing. Nobody in my family ever had much to pass down anyway, and I was actually surprised that my mother had anything to leave as I had expected she would spend the last of her savings on end-of-life care, but her sudden death meant there was about $100k to divide between 4 siblings - enough for everybody to get a nice little dollop but not enough for anybody to fight over. I'm grateful that there was no drama in my family over all this. Certainly nobody in my family ever lived their lives in anticipation of a windfall - I think it is often harmful to the children. I saw that in a lot of trust fund babies in the neighborhood I used to live in.
Have they seen the will yet? If not, it's also possible that there will be surprises in it. (I could, for instance, see her father bypassing her and giving the inheritance to her kids if he thought she would be foolish with the money).
Again, I think the best outcome FOR YOU is to help them get things sorted in the best possible way so that drama is minimized.
I'm so sorry, Andrew. I know losing someone unexpectedly is hard enough without all of the other stuff that you have going on, so I feel for you. I think a time out is absolutely the way to go. Just remember to take care of yourself in all of this. (((Andrew)))
I'm really sorry for S and her kids too. It's all very sad.
Me 50, H52 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 4 grandkids (plus 2 on the way)
perhaps she could buy out her brother and move into her dad's place,
wishful thinking on my part.
Funny you should mention this bttrfly - they were talking that there is no rush to sell the house and it may be something that is hanging around and available until everything gets settled which may be a year. S has a substantial support circle in that city and when we were dating had mentioned that she had been thinking of moving there.
They all just left after taking much of the day to pack, hug, cry and make a mess S, all 4 of her kids that are here (1 is in Australia), her son-in-law, grandson, and D19's BF and 3 dogs are all headed off to go to the ancestral home. Nobody seemed surprised that I stayed behind and as I told her - this is an "S" family thing - I only met her Dad a couple of times. It took about 2 1/2 hours for them to organize themselves - glad I was only an observer.
S commented that she's excited about the fact that her dog will be allowed on the couch.
I'm left here alone with the bunnies who will have a much cleaner hutch soon, the cats who won't care as long as they get fed and a feeling of space and elbow room. The hamster is with S13's Dad. I hope to get some cleaning done and at least some of the plaster work in the front bedroom. I'm still on vacation tomorrow too.
There was - rather to my annoyance - talk by S about dividing stuff up without letting her brother know.
I did pass on kml's - as always excellent suggestion - that they take pictures of everything as an inventory, track expenses as "something I read" - which is absolutely true. S's brother had already suggested multiple copies of the death certificate.
S herself did up the will for her Dad and is the executor. It wasn't done by a lawyer although it was witnessed and notarized. I expect that this will be a problem. There was some talk that the insurance money will be paid out fairly quickly and that that will cover the expenses of running the house for the next while.
S packed enough food for a week plus a lot of random stuff. For perspective though, she actually would pack more stuff to come here for a few days - lots of clothes, craft projects, books, her aura reading equipment etc.
I expect that they will be staying at her Dad's house for at least a couple of days, maybe up to a week. I also expect that over the next few months that she'll start splitting her time between here and there as she sorts out the stuff and the estate.
Well - might as well start a new thread. The road has shifted - yet again. Stay tuned. I have a cold beer on hand - and it tastes really really good.
Might make liver and onions for dinner. Haven't had that for a while. S packed up lots of the convenience food to take with her.