Where's the banana

[AndrewP]

I really apologize if that came off as mean. But I feel like you might not see some of the obvious. Although I really do think you see it, it’s just hard to grasp.

((Ginger)) - No need for apologies. I know you are saying these things because you care.

[kml]

I lived with a strong, dominant woman who used her temper to keep me in line for 26 years.

What was your mom like?

[bttrfly]

yes Andrew, we do care. I feel like I was perhaps sounding more harsh than I intended. I guess the simplest way to put my feeling about this is to say that if it requires couples counseling at the honeymoon stage, then it seems like maybe this is a square peg you're trying to fit into a round hole, know what I mean? Shouldn't it be easy and effortless if it's really meant to be, at least on the front end? Of course there are always adjustments to be made in any relationship, just to the point of needing counseling this early in?

And I've wanted to comment on something S said - the notion of "maybe we got engaged too soon" No. That's not it. You were bullied into an accelerated timeline which circumvented the natural progression of this relationship. I'd bet it's a pattern she's played out many times before and will continue to play out after you've extricated yourself from this situation. If the relationship was allowed to progress naturally, my guess is you'd not be in this situation right now, because you'd have had a better insight into what you were getting and would have opted out.

This is YOUR pattern, though, seemingly, finding women who push for a quick commitment. You've described your marriage as starting with your exw taking you hostage. We all know the B situation. Now S. I am not trying to hurt you or pick on you or be a b!tch in any way, shape or form. I want you to look at this from YOUR side of the street so that when you do extricate yourself you'll know what to watch out for next time love comes knocking on your door. You'll have a better understanding of why you're attracted to these types and how to have a relationship where more of your needs are met and you're appreciated for your many gifts.

Capisce?

[kml]

I have gotten tired of always having to consider if S might want to be involved in anything before proceeding and see an old pattern of me doing nothing resurfacing

Also - could some of this be an introvert/extrovert thing? You want to get your scone and have a quiet walk while you enjoy it. She wants to come with you and socialize for thirty minutes with the clerk. You're deprived of your introvert time while she's getting her extrovert energy resupplied. An introvert and an extrovert CAN get along if it suits them - my extrovert ex managed our social life and I benefited from him being more proactive in that arena than I would be on my own - but it's not always an easy match. I like my alone time and I definitely like doing things my own way - which is part of why I'd probably never choose to live with another boyfriend after CMM is gone. Dating someone who has their own place and jist sleeps over some nights sounds way better to me.

[Dawn70]

In my opinion, based on the story he told about S going with him to get his scone, that sounded way more like a jealousy thing than an introvert/extrovert thing. He was already doing this little routine of his and now he has to check with S and she goes and then treats him like a jerk if he wants to just pay and move along. It sounds to me, and again this is just my opinion, that she is either jealous or worried (or some combination of both) that Andrew is going to have a nice time without her, talking to another female, or maybe hearing some not-so-nice information about S herself. It seems not only jealous, but like she is trying to control the narrative that might take place both in regards to herself and to her relationship to Andrew. Now, mind you, I'm not there, so that might all just be bat crap crazy, but the part about her lecturing him yet again on how he doesn't listen when he tried to pay and move along screams jealousy, not extrovert to me. I also think it is very telling of S that she always goes along and doesn't take a dime with her. Why not pick up the whole tab occasionally? That's what I would do, especially if I were in her shoes and living pretty much responsibility-free off of someone. The least I could do would be to buy them a scone and coffee occasionally. And, here is my other question while I'm what-iffing someone else's business to death as though I can solve anything: if she is gluten intolerant or sensitive or whatever phrase we are going to use for it and supposedly so are her sons (in addition to just being teenagers and picky eaters), why is she buy $15 worth of pastries anyway?

I'm a HUGE advocate of couples doing things together, but also maintaining separate interests. I just don't think it is healthy to be up each other's @sses ALL the time. If Sparky were doing a little regular excursion something like this, I would wave him out the door with a smooch and a "see you later, have fun" and maybe "bring me something tasty, please" and he'd make some smart aleck comment about how he'd come back and we'd laugh, say we love each other and off he'd go. But then again, I'm secure in my relationship. I don't know that S has ever really been secure in a relationship. I mean, isn't she on husband #4? Sure, she could just really pick crappy men, but at what point does someone go "whoa...maybe the problem is HER and not all the men she keeps picking". Does that make sense?

Those are why I think her little reaction to Andrew's regular scone excursion are about jealousy rather than her being an extrovert. If she were an extrovert, she would behave very differently about the whole thing.

And, by the way, Andrew, is there a point when you realize that the bullying has to stop. I mean, your XW did it for years and now S is doing it and you respond with occasional passive aggressive outbursts that she just responds to with more bullying. It is a vicious, vicious cycle, my friend.

[Westo]

I agree with every word Dawn has posted above. FWIW

[kml]

And, here is my other question while I'm what-iffing someone else's business to death as though I can solve anything: if she is gluten intolerant or sensitive or whatever phrase we are going to use for it and supposedly so are her sons (in addition to just being teenagers and picky eaters), why is she buy $15 worth of pastries anyway?

Hahaha Dawn
As for the pastries I believe this place had gluten-free offerings as well. And they DO tend to be more expensive.

[Dawn70]

Yes, I get that gluten free is generally more expensive (do NOT even get me started on gluten free, organic, non-GMO, etc...………..), but my larger point was if they are all so fussy, $15 seems like a lot of money that she doesn't have or doesn't want to spend of her own, but is fine letting Andrew foot the bill. "Specialty" shops like bakeries tend to be fairly pricy anyway. I know we have a local one that has outstanding sweets and I paid nearly 10 bucks for 3 cupcakes for Sparky's mom's birthday (one for each of us), but it was a birthday, not a "hey it is Tuesday, so let's eat a cupcake." LOL But then again, other people's money is other people's money and it isn't my choice or my place on how to spend it, now is it?

[kml]

BTW - she has full blown Celiac Disease so it is VERY serious. And I just got off the phone with a gluten intolerant patient who got so ill she thought she had Covid then she figured out that the rice pilaf - which she had been eating every day at a restaurant on vacation - has pasta in it! So please don't belittle people who have to be gluten free - it's hard enough as it is.

[Dawn70]

You know what....I typed a really long response and then I just deleted it because I just can't. I'm entitled to feel the way I feel about things. I'm just going to say this. I am an adult and I'm fully aware that celiac disease is a real and serious issue for some. I am also fully aware that some people choose to be gluten free for other reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with health. Please do not assume that my comments were made to belittle people just because you have a different opinion and outlook on things than I do. That is unfair to me. I did not belittle anyone in what I said. I merely alluded to the fact that I have a very strong opinion about the people who chase trends of being gluten free, organic, non-GMO without really understanding any of those just because those happen to be the "it" buzz words right now. Yes, you are a doctor, so you do understand them. I am a scientist and an agricultural educator so I understand them just as well as you do, though likely from a different angle. The one thing that we can likely agree on is that people who actually have celiac disease struggle mightily and have to be very careful. Those who are doing it to be trendy are the ones who should be told not to belittle things because "it is hard enough as it is" because THEY are the ones who are making people skeptical about it.