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Originally Posted by Rose888
You keep posting variations on this question, and it's not something the board can help you with. You are essentially asking the board to read your ex-wife's mind, and mindreading is A) very often wrong and B) unhealthy.

You might want to research "ambiguous loss" and look for resources to help as you try to create closure.

What are you doing to create a happy, healthy life for yourself?

Rose, as I've now been on this forum for 2 months, I've come to the realization that, for me at least, the healing process involves understanding through dialogue, not forgetting or burying things.

I'm not asking for mindreading, if you carefully read my words. I'm asking for other WAWs or LBSes to relate their experience. Of course, it's their experience not mine, but still ... want me to fully heal? Let me settle my heart. Let me ponder others' words. I happen to be a thinker and can't just tell myself, "turn off the brooding!" I just don't work that way, perhaps the way you do.

And if my ex ever DOES talk, I'll relate that here as well.

Rest assured that I am doing quite well now. My weight is down, I'm ensuring that my appearance is always good. I have a new job and am busting my butt to do well, and I'm doing well. I've been connecting with my son, who is the only one of my three kids living with me. I am also growing my social life, although technically that's not an improvement since BD day but an improvement since Covid lockdowns began.

But once again, thanks for being your usual contrarian self!

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Tom,

Sometimes I wish my wife would be angry, at least that is an emotion, anger means sometimes that the spouse wants to punish you for hurting them to make you feel something. That's a good chance to validate, validate, validate, then the guilt of punishing you may stop it.

My wife feels nothing for me, indifference, no guilt, no shame, no tears, doesn't care that its hurting the kids, she lives with us but is never home, its like she is not even the same person. Like she died and some other woman replaced her that is selfish and emotionless to me or the children she loved like 2 months ago....

It [censored] that your dealing with all that crap, the anger, the atty war. Maybe that anger can subside after some time. I feel like the moment I tell my stbxw that I wont watch the kids every single nite so she can spend it with OM she will get that way. She has threatened me and said "things will get a lot different now." She is only the way she is since I am not fighting this D or trying to hold back her single life dreams. I figured if I just sit back and take care of the kids the more time she spends with OM the sooner it will fizzle out / the honeymoon phase ends and reality can take hold. If I fight that makes her A excting to run to. But Ill admit it doesn't help me feel any better when she tells me "stay strong your a good man, im sorry" either way this still [censored].. I never wanted my kids to have a step-dad, Im actually a good father.


T:11
M:10
K: D5, S7
BD: 9/1/20
WW continues to break up and recon with OM.
I paid last fees and pushed the D 5/3/2021
Default Dissolution granted 8/5/21.
Glad my D was not busted.
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Yes, you are asking for others to share their experiences, but how do you think that will help you? How will that help you settle your heart?

I'm not suggesting you bury or forget things. I'm suggesting that you will likely never know what was going through your ex-wife's mind, or why she did and said the things she did and said. Rather than pursue knowledge you are unlikely to ever get, learn to make peace with not knowing.

As a former brooder, I will tell you that one of the main benefits of the counseling I went to as a result of my Bomb Drop was learning that I could, in fact, teach myself to stop brooding. It's still a struggle some times, but being able to turn off the brooding benefits all areas of my life.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Originally Posted by Steve_
Tom,

Sometimes I wish my wife would be angry, at least that is an emotion, anger means sometimes that the spouse wants to punish you for hurting them to make you feel something. That's a good chance to validate, validate, validate, then the guilt of punishing you may stop it.

My wife feels nothing for me, indifference, no guilt, no shame, no tears, doesn't care that its hurting the kids, she lives with us but is never home, its like she is not even the same person. Like she died and some other woman replaced her that is selfish and emotionless to me or the children she loved like 2 months ago....

It [censored] that your dealing with all that crap, the anger, the atty war. Maybe that anger can subside after some time. I feel like the moment I tell my stbxw that I wont watch the kids every single nite so she can spend it with OM she will get that way. She has threatened me and said "things will get a lot different now." She is only the way she is since I am not fighting this D or trying to hold back her single life dreams. I figured if I just sit back and take care of the kids the more time she spends with OM the sooner it will fizzle out / the honeymoon phase ends and reality can take hold. If I fight that makes her A excting to run to. But Ill admit it doesn't help me feel any better when she tells me "stay strong your a good man, im sorry" either way this still [censored].. I never wanted my kids to have a step-dad, Im actually a good father.

Steve, I will be easier on you than some of the others here, because sometimes the veterans don't want to just sympathize with the agony of we LBHs, they just want us to move on! I don't blame them, but I'll give you some sympathy myself.

The hardest part for me was a little different. Mine just walked out and filed, and while I was thoroughly and completely shocked, what I needed was to talk with her. I begged her. Please, let's at least just talk. Sure, complain to me. Call me a bastard. I'll listen. I just wanted to talk.

But she administered the ultimate torture. She refused to talk. We had two business meetings, about bills, in that first 2.5 weeks, and that was it. Then the hand grenade, the accusation that I was violent and the threat of a restraining order. It still hurts for me to think about it. There are several songs I heard around that time, and each time I hear them now I experience the same physical response as I did back then.

After time here on DB, I think I now believe that she eventually will talk. It might take years, but eventually she will. I'm over that desperate, panicked need to hear her out. I still wonder, every day, though. A good friend of mine went through the same thing, about 10 years ago. He is now happily married to another woman, a lovely gal. But -- he's sensitive like me, he's an artist type -- he says the pain of his lost family, and the divorce, hurts every day. Every day.

Heed the advice of those here on DB who tell you to do the three essentials: GAL, create distance, and do your 180s. Either it works and she comes back, or it doesn't -- and you're now ready for the rest of your life.

Do not be an enabler of her wayward life. Just be matter-of-fact about it. Remember that there is a good chance the OM is using her, too, so he will tire of her and maybe she will learn an eternal life lesson. Imagine you were in his shoes. An attractive woman, still married, hot to trot, but she says he can't pick her up cause she's still living with her legal husband -- the OM is only interested in a good time! It can't be serious for him. So one possibility is that after some amount of time, and after feeling used like a rag doll, she comes back to you.

I can't help but also think that now is the time to heed the NMMNG advice. We nice, sensitive and sweet men suffer from this syndrome. It doesn't mean become an a--hole, but it does mean to begin asserting ourselves. In fact, that might be what attracted her to the OM, because she likes a more dominant man, even if it's only one who will in the end use her. Remember, one of SandiB's maxims is "don't expect logic" from the WW, for the time being. She is living for the day, and living for the pleasure. That can't last forever.

So, my friend, trudge ahead. Take one step at a time. Try not to mope.

And always reach out to me if you want some sympathy. I'm here.

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Originally Posted by Steve_
Tom,
My wife feels nothing for me, indifference, no guilt, no shame, no tears, doesn't care that its hurting the kids, she lives with us but is never home, its like she is not even the same person. Like she died and some other woman replaced her that is selfish and emotionless to me or the children she loved like 2 months ago....

Steve, this will pass. Based on what I've read here, she will not be like that permanently. It takes patience, that we often find it hard to be patient. She is numb. That's the only way she can suppress the fact that what she is doing is wrong. That is exactly how my STBXW was when she walked out. The numbness will go away.

Originally Posted by Steve_
I feel like the moment I tell my stbxw that I wont watch the kids every single nite so she can spend it with OM she will get that way.

This is a very real concern. In fact, I think you should begin this discussion with her. Tell her that you are trying to blossom, like she is, and that the two of you should share babysitting costs when you're both out. Don't threaten, don't tell her you're trolling for chicks, just say it's been two months and I'm not going to be tied to home anymore. See how she responds. If she ignores you, then just do it anyway. If her practice is to leave at 6 pm to see the boyfriend, then you just leave at 5:30 without telling her. Leave her a note on the kitchen saying, "the kids are yours tonight! Sorry, but I need some freedom!" You can even "sweeten" your actions by leaving a hot dinner that you purchased from the store on the table. So she can hardly conclude "what an [censored]" if you had dinner for them to eat.

Originally Posted by Steve_
She is only the way she is since I am not fighting this D or trying to hold back her single life dreams.
Yes. She is behaving very immaturely. She knows it deep down but is in denial because the OM and the intense sex they are no doubt having is just too much fun. Do what I said above, stop imagining herself with the other dude but just start getting out yourself.

Originally Posted by Steve_
I figured if I just sit back and take care of the kids the more time she spends with OM the sooner it will fizzle out / the honeymoon phase ends and reality can take hold.
Yes, as I said in my prior reply, this will end. 2 months seems like eternity but in the end it isn't very long. And just because she says she wants to look into getting back together, you need to be very circumspect. She has lots of "splainin" to do. Resuming things should not be automatic.

Originally Posted by Steve_
But Ill admit it doesn't help me feel any better when she tells me "stay strong your a good man, im sorry" either way this still [censored]
I think that is false flattery. A way to keep you at home providing her with free babysitting. GAL and start going out. Lose weight. Buy some weights and start using them a couple of times a day in the garage or basement. Buy some tight muscle shirts.

FYI, I had already been on a weight loss regimen when my ex walked out, but I lost another 10 pounds, so I was at 195 lbs on a 6' frame. Not my high school weight but no more protruding belly. I bought some black pants (the black stretchy denim ones at Costco) and some black t-shirts that Costco calls 32 deg cool. For the first time in my life, this tech guy looked kind of cool in all black.

All of a sudden, women of all ages were looking at me (I'm late 50s with salt and pepper hair). Went to a dance bar with some friends, and some much younger gal pulled me to her to dance with her. That didn't happen when I was in my 20s.

Do it! It will do wonders for your self-confidence.

Originally Posted by Steve_
I never wanted my kids to have a step-dad, Im actually a good father.
Don't let this torment you. It is out of your control for now whether they have a 2nd "dad" someday.

Your kids will always, ALWAYS, know the difference between their loving dad and a step-dad. But you will be a better Dad if you get out of your doldrums, as soon as possible. They will notice.
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Originally Posted by Ginger1
A woman’s sex drive wanes when the guy isn’t doing anything to rev it up.
Originally Posted by Steve85

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

A woman's sex drive wanes when the guy is also a selfish jerkface that isn't meeting her needs, even if she feels stuck with him in a crappy,. loveless marriage.

My W's current sex drive is proof that if the H is putting in the energy to the relationship then her sex drive will follow suit! I was in a SSM for a longtime because I stopped being there for her emotionally, making her feel special, making her feel desirable and wanted, doing my part.

Guys, never stop dating your W. PERIOD. When you take her for granted, yeah her sex drive will wane.
This is all fine when the couple is working on the relationship.

But when one person is done, the rules change. Reducing resentment and all the other DBing skills need to be done before there is any chance of dating.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Hi Tom, you posted to another thread asking me to take a look at yours. I went back and read it all from the beginning. Your situation sounds so much like mine that I feel like I could have written a lot of your posts. We had a marriage our friends were all jealous of. We got along fantastic. We had (still have) 3 amazing kids. We did things together as a family, but we also did things separately and maintained some healthy independence. We very rarely fought, in 20 years I would say maybe 3 or 4 times. We were quite religious, faith was important to us. We had a beautiful home that was paid for, sizeable savings for each of our kids to fund college and healthy retirement plans that were going to allow us to retire in our mid-50's. BD came without warning like a bolt out of the blue. Things went from a peaceful, happy marriage to discussion of splitting assets and how we were going to work out child visitation so fast that my head was quite literally spinning for months.

One thing I've seen you mention several times is the need for closure and the need to know "why". As Vapo replied, you'll never know "why", because more than likely your W doesn't even know why. Oh sure maybe you weren't as loving as you were earlier in the M, and didn't communicate as well as you could have, but the same could no doubt be said for your W and pretty much every other person in a long term marriage or relationship. And I would wager that like my XW, your W would have done ANYTHING earlier in the M to save it NO MATTER WHAT PROBLEMS CAME UP. Right? So what happened to her that she went from wanting the M at all costs to not even wanting to lift her pinky off the table to try anymore? I don't know. You don't know. She doesn't know. Something is happening to her internally, there is some kind of struggle going on and she doesn't know where it originated or why. But she's no longer in love and she no longer wants to be married. THOSE things she does know.

And it was the same for my XW. Unlike you and your W, we did go to therapy. We had discussions, and months after BD we even went to Retrouvaille which was her idea. So we had a lot of dialog. Whenever asked why she didn't want to be married, her response was without exception "I don't know." I'll give you a specific example, the therapist asked her if I was a selfish person and she replied "no, he's a very warm and giving person." She asked her if she respected me and she replied "absolutely." Asked her if I was an uncaring father and she said "not at all, he's an amazing father." Then she said "what about sex, does he not meet your needs?" Her reply shocked me since we had not had sex since BD, but she said "oh I really enjoy the sex and wouldn't mind continuing to have sex even now." The therapist said "I'm confused, you say you trust and respect him, he's an excellent father and the sex is great, we call those the three pillars of a healthy relationship. So why is it you don't want to be married?" "I don't know, I just don't want to try."

And in the almost 10 years since BD, that is as close as I've ever gotten to an explanation of "why".

So you will get closure, but your closure won't be in knowing why, it will be in letting go of the need to know why. Sometimes things happen without reason.

Early on I sought reasons to explain why it was happening. I looked into anti-depressants and menopause in particular. My XW was going through menopause at the time, and she had been taking A/D's since our son was born. Particularly with A/D's there is a lack of research on the long term consequences of continual usage, but preliminary research is indicating it CAN affect "love feelings" and that some people lose love for their spouse and even their kids after having been on them for years. Ironically my XW and I had dinner with two of our kids last night and XW was talking about how she's cut her A/D's down to about 10% of what she was taking and now feels more like her old self, she said "I didn't realize how drugged up I was all those years until I started cutting back." I'm not offering this as any kind of explanation, but I've always felt that something "external" happened, that this wasn't just a case of me being a poor husband. And I'm still convinced there IS a reason even if I'll never know for sure. My brother thinks that when we die the answers to all of life's mysteries will be revealed to us. I know this will be number one on my list, LOL!

But I did finally let go of the need to know why, and I let go of my XW, and let go of our M. I moved on, found new ways to be happy, and became at peace with it all.

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She has hardly spoken to me since the filing 11 months ago last September. We have seen each other in person a mere three times. She has refused to talk, which hurts even more, because the "why" still makes me weep. I have a feeling that she is not talking because she doesn't want to take a chance that her will to divorce will weaken. For years she said we didn't communicate very well, yet after suffering in silence for years, she is committing that very same offense -- not talking.


She's not guilty of an offense, she just doesn't know. There's nothing to verbalize. And she knows telling you "I don't know" is just going to make you frustrated and possibly angry, and so she'd rather just not talk. Plus the separation is her way of letting go, and she's probably afraid that if she sees you she might second guess her decision. This decision she made was a very difficult one and she is wracked with guilt over hurting you, the kids, your family and friends. She hates herself for it. She probably cries a lot even though she may appear cold and indifferent. But she still feels like she must do this to survive. My XW told me all of these things, but not until long after BD.

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I am a tender-hearted man. I still can't sleep more than 4 hours a night without sleeping pills. I had a heart arrhythmia which turned out to be temporary. I had other symptoms of stress such as extreme nighttime sweats.


These things are unfortunately normal for what you're going through. It'll go away but it takes time.

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We are (were) a Christian couple. The Bible says that marriage is made in heaven and we are commanded to try and make it work. The bible also says that if you are in conflict with another person of faith, and feel you can't communicate with that individual, you must find a third party who will help intercede. She did none of this.


Again she just doesn't have anything to say that will help anyone understand. The most difficult thing a LBS can do is set aside their own hurt and see things from the WAS's perspective. She is in extreme pain internally. If you knew how badly she felt, if you could step inside her for a moment, you would probably feel real anguish for her and back off and leave her alone to help her recover. All your attempts to talk to her and find out why and negotiate are just making her feel worse.

I am not saying what she is doing is right, not at all. I'm just saying you have to respect her wishes, it's the only way forward.

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So I'm trying to pick up the pieces. How do you take apart a home that has so many wonderful family memories? How do you subdivide possessions in a house that is the only home our three children even knew? How do you accept what is the ultimate rejection of you -- a woman who looks you in the eye (via an attorney) and says, "after knowing you for 34 years, 32 as your wife, I don't love you anymore and do not want to spend another hour with you"? How do you accept the death sentence administered to your marriage?


You do it because you have to. You don't have a choice in the matter, it takes two to get married but only one to divorce.

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If there is any consolation to all of this, it's that Michele says that men in my situation make great second husbands. Because once we got to rock bottom we would do anything to save our marriages and be better men. She also says that marriages in this situation can be turned around if the woman is willing to talk for the first time. Sadly, that is not my situation. So I suppose it will be another woman who will benefit from Tom version 2.0.


You don't know what the future holds. People reconcile after very long periods of time. A consultant I work with remarried his wife after they were divorced for 15 years. My XW and I get along better and better each day, at first she wanted nothing to do with me, did not even want to talk or text. Now she finds all kinds of reasons to contact me. Yesterday she asked me to come over and fix some nail pops, said she just can't fix them like I do. Then she invited me to dinner with two of our kids as I mentioned before.

Does that mean we will reconcile? I don't know, and to be honest at this point I don't really care. I love the life I have now, I don't know that I would ever want to be married again. I have a lot of good friends, and I have my own home set up the way I want it. I do my sculpting on the dining table, why? Because I can, haha! I eat when I want, I go the gym when I want, I ride my motorcycles when the mood strikes. Sometimes I go to bed early. Sometimes I stay up late. I'm not going to lie, it's all pretty darned awesome!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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I wanted to reply to this as well but my last post was getting very long:

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A new friend, about age 55, told me the story of his WAW from about 10 years ago. I'll spare you the details, but he said that the pain never goes away. Never goes away. Last year, this friend remarried a lovely woman, stunning in fact, and is very happy. But he says that every day, during some moment of quiet, he feels pain because his first love, and his beautiful young family, fell apart. [I think his new wife must be a saint.] "It hurts every day, Tom," he said.


I would say this is different for each person. BD for me as almost 10 years ago as well. The pain did absolutely go away for me, I do not feel any pain or regret or anger or anything negative over what happened. One chapter of my life closed, and another chapter opened. It wasn't what I planned, but as John Lennon said, "life is what happens while you're planning for something else." I had a great marriage. It ended, but that does not make it any less great. I wouldn't trade the experience for anything, even had I known in the beginning how it was going to end.

You've mentioned your faith a few times, as a reader of the Bible tell me this, is it filled with stories of people who had perfect, happy lives from beginning to end? Or is it filled with people who have had to face all kinds of crazy, shocking, life-altering adversity and somehow survived and even came out better for having gone through it?


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
The pain did absolutely go away for me, I do not feel any pain or regret or anger or anything negative over what happened.

I divorced my wife in 2010, so about the same ten-year time-frame.

Tom, if he's a friend you may want to nudge him towards IC. We all grieve at different paces, but daily pain 10yrs later, isn't typical of what I see from other divorced single parents.

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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Hi Tom, you posted to another thread asking me to take a look at yours. I went back and read it all from the beginning. Your situation sounds so much like mine that I feel like I could have written a lot of your posts. We had a marriage our friends were all jealous of. We got along fantastic. We had (still have) 3 amazing kids. We did things together as a family, but we also did things separately and maintained some healthy independence. We very rarely fought, in 20 years I would say maybe 3 or 4 times. We were quite religious, faith was important to us. We had a beautiful home that was paid for, sizeable savings for each of our kids to fund college and healthy retirement plans that were going to allow us to retire in our mid-50's.

You are right, our family situations are almost identical.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
So you will get closure, but your closure won't be in knowing why, it will be in letting go of the need to know why. Sometimes things happen without reason.

I am slowly coming to accept this.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
She's not guilty of an offense, she just doesn't know. There's nothing to verbalize. And she knows telling you "I don't know" is just going to make you frustrated and possibly angry, and so she'd rather just not talk. Plus the separation is her way of letting go, and she's probably afraid that if she sees you she might second guess her decision. This decision she made was a very difficult one and she is wracked with guilt over hurting you, the kids, your family and friends. She hates herself for it. She probably cries a lot even though she may appear cold and indifferent. But she still feels like she must do this to survive. My XW told me all of these things, but not until long after BD.

I think you nailed it on the head here. Especially the fact that she's not really sure why but she needed to do it to survive. In the one letter she wrote me, she said she felt like the house was a prison, that she was suffocating while there. That's why she had to walk away. And ... I guess the hardest part about accepting that is that all that pain, all that discomfort, was because of me. ME. I never thought I was that bad of a guy, in fact amongst all our friends I thought I was the most decent, loyal, loving and supportive of the husbands. WRONG!!!

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
The most difficult thing a LBS can do is set aside their own hurt and see things from the WAS's perspective. She is in extreme pain internally. If you knew how badly she felt, if you could step inside her for a moment, you would probably feel real anguish for her and back off and leave her alone to help her recover. All your attempts to talk to her and find out why and negotiate are just making her feel worse.

I understand. I do, at least intellectually. My heart screams otherwise. It took me a week or so, but then -- believe it or not -- I did understand how our circumstances might have driven her to want to leave.

The most painful part, though, is that she gave the marriage zero chance. There are so many things she could have said -- "Tom, I want to move out and get away. It might be six months before we can talk again, but I ... must ... have ... this ... space." Sure, I would've accepted that. Or, she might have said, "Tom, I'm filing for divorce, but during the process we can perhaps work on things to see if we don't need to sign the final papers in a year." That would have been a bigger shock, but I could've handled that.

But she gave me no chance. Zero chance. After all those years!! Held inside these hurts for so long and then just walked.

She undertook a few bad actions that poisoned the well, also, no doubt at the advice of her aggressive attorney and an angry sister. Took all the money with her. Left the house on BD day with the best car. Collected all the tax refunds. Had the attorney accuse me of stalking, violence, harrassment and more and threaten a restraining order. This did not make things easier, although I have already forgiven these as well. [As a Christian, I am commanded to forgive, but there is no way I could be angry at her or hate her anyway.]

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I love the life I have now, I don't know that I would ever want to be married again. I have a lot of good friends, and I have my own home set up the way I want it. I do my sculpting on the dining table, why? Because I can, haha! I eat when I want, I go the gym when I want, I ride my motorcycles when the mood strikes. Sometimes I go to bed early. Sometimes I stay up late. I'm not going to lie, it's all pretty darned awesome!

Well, I know some of that now. But I am made for relationship, I am certain of that. I already told my kids that someday there will be another Mrs Tom. And I guarantee you I will not be available to my ex in 15 years, much less 5 years.

So did you ever date? Are you dating now?

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