A Divorce Busting® Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.


Save your marriage singlehandedly
with Divorce Busting Telephone Coaching
SPECIAL JANUARY OFFER -- SAVE $60
THREE DIVORCE BUSTING TELEPHONE COACHING SESSION FOR ONLY $330

CALL 303-444-7004 or use code: SAVE_$60 in the Divorce Busting Store

A Message from Michele
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2905177
10/07/20 11:42 AM
10/07/20 11:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,976
L
LH19 Offline
Member
LH19  Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,976
PM99,

Quickly I just want to chime in that it sounds like he feels ganged up on in MC. Everyone knows that it was wrong and an affair and it sounds like you are looking for vindication. Do you want to be right or married?

I get the feeling that you and May are at the "reconciliation at all costs" stage and it must be done quickly to alleviate my fears.

It doesn't work that way. The WW has to see the LBS as a person of value that they are willing to work for to remain in their lives.

I'm sorry you are going through this right now.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2905183
10/07/20 12:31 PM
10/07/20 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 306
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
Pommy99  Offline OP
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 306
LH, I think the MC is very impartial and likes to challenge a way of thinking rather than state that "you did this". So in terms of him stating H had an affair, he actually said "what makes an affair of any kind an affair is the secrecy and the lies" - although he has called H's relationship an A from day 1 as that is how he sees it - which it was, right? Even H said himself yesterday he doesn't see it as an affair as it wasn't sexual.

I'm not looking for vindication at all. I have spent 18 months second-guessing myself, doubting my intuition, with H seemingly blinkered about how this other relationship impacted him, me and the marriage, and how it continues to impact. Do I have anger to process? Yes, I do, but I am trying to use MC as a structured environment in which to process it. Do I feel that my feelings are constantly quashed? Yes, I do, and again MC is a way of laying out my feelings and for MC to present them to H from a neutral standpoint.

I don't believe we are ganging up on H at all - H may disagree of course! I just think H is being made to face head-on some uncormfortable truths. How he chooses to process them is now down to him. I have left the last two MC sessions feeling like a weight has been lifted, that I do have a voice, and my feelings can be heard. H says he feels relief that this is all coming out. That he does want to talk about these things because he hates carrying round the burden and the guilt.

Who knows how this will pan out - but right now I just feel relief that someone is able to validate and ratify my feelings.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-Apr 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2905306
10/08/20 10:42 PM
10/08/20 10:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,223
M
may22 Offline
Member
may22  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,223
Hi Pommy,

I updated on my own thread the last couple of days on where I am in all of this and I don't think we are ready for MC at this point. I want to just focus on myself for a bit, figuring out how to process my own emotions and leave H be to his.

That being said, for you guys-- I sense that your H is having a tough time facing his own actions-- not even being able to name what he did as an A is pretty major denial for starters. It is good that he feels relief in talking about these things and not carrying them around inside. Have you guys talked at all about what other truths there might still be left to be discovered?

Also, thinking that maybe for the time being letting him process all this on his own a bit and not pushing him faster than he is willing to be pushed is a good idea. Assuming the MC is a professional and can gauge the right amount of pressure that H can take. Even though this experience is validating for you, I still don't think you want your H to feel as though he is being ganged up on. I could be wrong but from his behavior and responses in the past, it doesn't seem he responds well to that, necessarily. If your H is saying he feels you're going over old ground and that isn't helpful for him (even though it is for you), what would H find helpful from a session and maybe you could let him start with that next time?

I've been thinking recently about the conversations I had in the fall and early spring with my DB coach, and re-read my notes from them. She said multiple times that the number one predictor of couples that recover from an A and go on to M2.0 is friendship, backed by Gottman's work. She talked about romance being the fruit of the tree of the R, and right now it looks dead from the outside. You need to water the roots and have the leaves come out before it is ready to fruit again. The roots, trunk, branches are your friendship and you can't pick the fruit before it is ready-- patience being my biggest challenge. Anyway, I say that in response to this:

Originally Posted by Pommy99
Aside from all that, H and I have done what we do best - get on, be affectionate, cuddle a lot, go cycling together - perfect companions, all without the deep level of emotional intimacy that we are both looking for.

I know people here are super worried about being friend-zoned and of course Esther Perel talks about a lot of that and the general disconnect between long-term relationships and desire in Mating in Captivity. But that definitely wasn't the view of the DB coach and MWD, Gottman, and Glass all really focus on spending time together and working on your friendship as a first step in affair recovery (once you've dealt with all the fallout of the discovery), that the feelings will come back in time. So IDK. I maybe wouldn't worry about it so much. It isn't really within your control anyway. If you're enjoying yourself on the bike rides and OK with him being there and not moving forward with S or D, then I would push you to just be okay with where you are right now. You have plenty of time.

Honestly-- being friends with your H is not the worst thing in the world. And once he gets some time and space and distance from the OW, can start to process his own emotions and behaviors and what they mean, there is time for your connection together to deepen and resurface. But it will probably be slower if you are poking at it all the time. (Telling myself this too.)

My rings are still off too. IDK when I'll put them back on. I'm not going to worry about it for now. Maybe it does come across as pressure for your H to think you're waiting for some big sign from him to put them back on and he doesn't know what to do about that. From a 180 standpoint... I wonder what would happen if you did just put them back on and not say anything. It could be a signal to him that you are willing to open the door to him as he stands on the doorstep and work on the M. They are just rings after all and only have the significance you place on them. I'm not suggesting you do that if it doesn't feel right to you, but maybe it would help to just lighten things up a bit if you could say, OK, I'm here too, I'm willing to work on our M even though I'm not feeling everything I want to feel right now. It is more like thinking about love as an action rather than a feeling. Just a thought for you to take or leave.

Hang in there, Pommy.

xx M


Me (45) H (41)
M:13 T:17, D8 & D10
4/19 BD #1 ILYB
8/19 BD #2 Long-distance EA
12/19 BD #3 Actually 2 year PA
2-5/20 R attempt #1
6-7/20 limbo again, back in contact with AP
8/20-present R attempt #2
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2905309
10/09/20 12:04 AM
10/09/20 12:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,048
C
CWarrior Online
Member
CWarrior  Online
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,048
Hi Pommy,

Wow, I read your latest updates. You see the long road, and are taking small steps along it.

From the peanut gallery never having dealt with an affair, I love that you required him to cut off contact to his EAP and took away some of his power with "I could walk.", and what May says about giving him having to have the time he needs to process each step of his changes (e.g. recognizing it was an affair). Anyway, kind thoughts and prayers your way! It's nice to see your situation leaning in a positive direction.

Originally Posted by Pommy
I just feel relief that someone is able to validate and ratify my feelings.

Have you thought about scheduling some IC sessions for that purpose?


May'19 - Girlfriend of 2yrs left. Aug'19 - We became a "broken" couple (I needed validation, she screamed). Dec'19 - We gave up and went NC. Mar'20 - I've changed and she's eager for MC and us again.
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: may22] #2905343
10/09/20 02:25 PM
10/09/20 02:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 306
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
Pommy99  Offline OP
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by may22
That being said, for you guys-- I sense that your H is having a tough time facing his own actions-- not even being able to name what he did as an A is pretty major denial for starters. It is good that he feels relief in talking about these things and not carrying them around inside. Have you guys talked at all about what other truths there might still be left to be discovered?
MC asked if I have a list of Qs - I do. He suggested I re-review my Qs and see which ones I feel I need an answer to. He also suggested that H and I do this away from the house, maybe go for a walk and talk. Since the session, I have read my list but right now I don't know if this is the right time. In some ways I feel we are focusing to much energy on that and OW. This weekend, we need to get back to enjoying life and not focusing on the negative stuff. Perhaps I just have to accept the Qs are petty in the grand scheme of things - there were a huge amount of lies over 12 months, so knowing who he went off to phone on holiday 18 months ago probably isn't that important (although I've been carrying this for 18 months and wondering why I cant let it go).

Originally Posted by may22
If your H is saying he feels you're going over old ground and that isn't helpful for him (even though it is for you), what would H find helpful from a session and maybe you could let him start with that next time?
This is a good point. I will suggest this to him. I did push him a little today around lack of intimacy and he reassured me that he feels we've been spending better quality time together and feeling closer. He did also say I'm trying to push him too fast. We did agree, however, that the events of the last 3 weeks have caused us to derail a bit and we haven't been doing our MC "homework" and we need to start that again. I sat down and thought about what he HAS done over the last 2 weeks in the name of the M and I felt a little guilty for not allowing him some time to process everything. Like you, I struggle for patience - I think that is because my timeline is 20 months in and counting...his is a lot shorter. He told me more about how the NC conversation went with OW - she got really angry with him and made him feel guilty, saying that she would never have done that to him ,would never block him, would have always been there for him etc etc. That's what's been playing on his mind but MC session helped him release some of that - H said he realized she wasn't his responsibility anymore. (I bit my tongue as I thought "and when WAS this married woman your responsibility?" !!!)

Originally Posted by may22
I've been thinking recently about the conversations I had in the fall and early spring with my DB coach, and re-read my notes from them. She said multiple times that the number one predictor of couples that recover from an A and go on to M2.0 is friendship, backed by Gottman's work. She talked about romance being the fruit of the tree of the R, and right now it looks dead from the outside. You need to water the roots and have the leaves come out before it is ready to fruit again. The roots, trunk, branches are your friendship and you can't pick the fruit before it is ready
- I very much agree with this, but I guess I start to panic that the tree isn't growing (after all I am trying to watch it grow every single day!!) and then I do something dumb like over-water it!

Originally Posted by may
Maybe it does come across as pressure for your H to think you're waiting for some big sign from him to put them back on and he doesn't know what to do about that. From a 180 standpoint... I wonder what would happen if you did just put them back on and not say anything. It could be a signal to him that you are willing to open the door to him as he stands on the doorstep and work on the M. They are just rings after all and only have the significance you place on them. I'm not suggesting you do that if it doesn't feel right to you, but maybe it would help to just lighten things up a bit if you could say, OK, I'm here too, I'm willing to work on our M even though I'm not feeling everything I want to feel right now. It is more like thinking about love as an action rather than a feeling. Just a thought for you to take or leave.
I do feel I have made this a bigger deal than it needed to be - one of those things that eats away at you and you try and say nothing, waiting for them to act, and knowing that if you say something and they act, you feel like they are only doing it because you asked them to. Respect to H as he has not taken action lol. He has made lots of references over the last few days to me being his wife ("happy wife =happy life" kind of things!). I'm still learning and still confused May, as with your H, I don't get the ILYs, but he does tell me he loves me when we're having R conversations. (I get it..."in love" vs something else). GD this is hard! Thank you so much for your support

Originally Posted by cwarrior
Have you thought about scheduling some IC sessions for that purpose?
Hi Cwarrior, I haven't had regular IC for a while although it was helping earlier in the year. I guess what I felt relief over this week was that my feelings were being aired and heard in front of H. Maybe I've been more confident in talking about how I feel, MC has encouraged me to speak up after I said that I always felt my feelings were being quashed and that I was being pushed into the corner to suck up and accept H's behaviours. I think I am becoming more vocal about what I will and won't put up with. I kind of like that. I actually feel like H is starting to take me more seriously. Perhaps I'm finally learning about boundaries smile


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-Apr 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2906253
10/20/20 01:43 PM
10/20/20 01:43 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,324
Los Angeles, CA
V
Valeska19 Offline
Member
Valeska19  Offline
Member
V
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,324
Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I guess what I felt relief over this week was that my feelings were being aired and heard in front of H. Maybe I've been more confident in talking about how I feel, MC has encouraged me to speak up after I said that I always felt my feelings were being quashed and that I was being pushed into the corner to suck up and accept H's behaviours. I think I am becoming more vocal about what I will and won't put up with. I kind of like that. I actually feel like H is starting to take me more seriously. Perhaps I'm finally learning about boundaries smile


This is great Pommy. We teach people how to treat us. Your H is allowed to feel whatever he wants to. So you are you. It's not an either/or situation... it's about learning how to hold both.

I think being vocal is often the first step to learning boundaries because it's a way for us to "pump ourselves up". It's a way of looking in the mirror and saying "I want to be treated this way. I am worth of being treated this way". And that's such a great and crucial step.. so Kudos.

Now that you have said those things to your H - what does it look in actions? How do you not get pushed into that corner? That's the next step and will most likely be the step when the real ugly push back will begin.


M(f): 38
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2906257
10/20/20 02:03 PM
10/20/20 02:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,710
D
DejaVu6 Offline
Member
DejaVu6  Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,710
Pommy... I think your feelings about focusing too much on OW and the affair are probably correct. The affair was not about the OW...she was just the “fix” for whatever it was that was missing in your MR. Focus on that. The more you do, the less it will matter what he did when. All of that is in the past. You can’t change it so let it go and make the creation of MR 2.0 your priority. IMO...getting answers to all of your questions won’t do anything except increase your resentment over what he did (doesn’t matter if it is justified or not) and make him feel more ashamed. I don’t think that will do either of you any good in the long run. (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2906263
10/20/20 02:32 PM
10/20/20 02:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 8,199
S
Steve85 Offline
Member
Steve85  Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 8,199
Pommy, I go on record in this forum all the time as saying that there is NOTHING wrong with saying "he cheated, I can't handle that as it is one of my dealbreakers" and Ding him. That is completely within your rights to do. Even the most conservative of Christian religions allows for D in the case of infidelity.

But you have to make that choice. Either put the A in the rearview mirror and move forward, and admit you will never be able to get over it and end your D. Dealbreakers are good. We should all have them. And if one of them gets violated then we should be willing to stand by our principles and end things. Nothing is weaker than having a dealbreaker, and then letting it get violated. As Valeska said, we teach others how to treat us. If we give up on our principles as soon as our S violates one then we've taught them that it ok to violate principles by letting them get away with it.

Never compromise on your principles.


M(51), W(52),D(16)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Re: Reconciliation Rollercoaster (part 5) [Re: Pommy99] #2907498
11/02/20 11:38 PM
11/02/20 11:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,223
M
may22 Offline
Member
may22  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,223
How are things going, Pommy? Thinking of you! xx


Me (45) H (41)
M:13 T:17, D8 & D10
4/19 BD #1 ILYB
8/19 BD #2 Long-distance EA
12/19 BD #3 Actually 2 year PA
2-5/20 R attempt #1
6-7/20 limbo again, back in contact with AP
8/20-present R attempt #2
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Cadet, job, Virginia 

Save Your Marriage! Schedule Online

Schedule a phone consultation with a Divorce Busting® Coach! Call: 800-664-2435 or 303-444-7004