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Originally Posted by KitCat
YEAH - eyelid is finally showing signs of improvement! smile

In continued efforts in self improvement I took the Meyers Briggs --- I am "the defender" as ISFJ-T.

Its definitely me.

87% of Turbulent Defenders say they usually blame themselves first when something goes wrong, compared to 55% of Assertive Defenders.

^^^Absolutely me... Not just in my M but in my career as well.

Defenders are true altruists, meeting kindness with kindness-in-excess and engaging the work and people they believe in with enthusiasm and generosity.


^^^ Yup --- definitely me. Always trying to do for others not just meeting their needs but clearly to meet my need to be kind and generous. Yup, I'm the person on the bus leaving a book behind with a note how much I enjoyed it and want to pass it on.

Reluctant to Change – These challenges can be particularly hard to address since Defender personalities value traditions and history highly in their decisions. A situation sometimes needs to reach a breaking point before Defenders are persuaded by circumstance, or the strong personality of a loved one, to alter course.

^^^ Again, very me. Don't get me wrong I like to do new things. In fact I frequently book them when planning our vacations or adventures. I have an extreme fear of heights but I specially booked the Costa Rica trip with the Arenal Sky Adventures Zip Line as a family thing. Go google it... 600ft up in the air... 2400ft in length... up to 43mi/hr. Yup, I screamed like a girl but I did it. The family loves pushing me and watching me squirm but the point is I did it.

When H got a motorbike it was outside my comfort zone but I was warming up. I even made him take me to buy my own helmet that would fit better. I just require more "hand holding". Like my H saying hey do you think you would bike with me X? And, even if I said not today that he would ask again. I just need more time to warm up and get comfortable. As stupid as this all is I had already 2 things my list this summer before BD. One was taking H to a fun, unique resturant on some winding roads about an hour away and to also have him take me 2hr each way to a fun yarn store in the next state over as another motorbike trip. The second was having H take me fishing twice on his boat this summer. SOOOOO... I was getting there.

I can see the flip side of how H felt --- his thinking was if he had to ask me more than once then I was never really interested in it so he just bailed and formed an opinion how our interests are too different. I tried to validate when he stated his feelings on this ((((this was a long awhile ago)))). I understand why he would feel this way. I wonder if he was able to hear my side... needing more encouragement???

Long before I took this quiz I already recognized that I internalized H's criticism and anger to mean that I was "less than" and it further sunk my self esteem. I see now that for my H the criticism and anger were defense mechanisms for the deep seated hurt/pain he was internalizing as rejection from me.

Anyway reading about ISFJ-T --- that is who we are. We internalize criticism. I already had come to an understanding of this about me but it was good to read about.

I sooooo want to print this out for my H to read. Frankly, I have great interests if he would do the test too... it might help me understand him even better. HOWEVER, I know this is soo not the time. Yes, LH I can hear you loud and clear. H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days. So its all under wraps... keeping it all to myself.

As hard and painful as it is to be in this miserable quiet house I continue to keep the focus on me and work on self improvement.


Interesting: I am The Executive - ESTJ, though I am more of a Omnivert than a true Extrovert. so I can also be a bit of a ISTJ.

So if you look at the one we are opposites in: Thinking vs. Feeling then you can see why you and I have had such a difference of opinion. What many of us tried to get you to see is that acting on Feelings will often lead you down the wrong path. In fact, letting your emotions rule your actions is diametrically opposed to what you should be doing for DBing! This is why we say that DBing is counter-intuitive. Your feelings will make you think that what you are doing is wrong....because it feels wrong. "What do you mean that I can't tell the man I love that I love him?" Feels wrong.....but it is the RIGHT thing to do if your ultimate goal is to save your marriage. It may not result in saving your marriage, but it gives you a better chance than does following what FEELS right.

As far as the -T, I don't remember dealing with that when I did my Myers-Briggs assessment as part of management training for work (it has been several years), but I looked it up. Assertive vs Turbulent. I would definitely be a -A!. But I can see that you are -T which makes sense based on what we've observed here. The problem I see that might arise in for the Turbulent is that stress gets them motivated. The problem in our situations, as we have stated many times, it that often you are better off doing NOTHING than something. Turbulent individuals react to stress by doing. KC, this is a huge opportunity for you. Since as a -T stress motivates you....remember that doing nothing IS doing something!

I personally love Myer-Briggs. Like you I think my Myers-Briggs type is spot on in explaining how I view and look at things.


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Originally Posted by LH19

If you need to send him that to explain your eternal and unconditional love for him in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.

What if you send it to him, he reads it, and nothing changes.


I think the reason I mentioned you in my post is that I KNOW that doing such a move is non-productive. He doesn't care anymore what got him to this point. He's done. He's numb. He has this new life and its amazing.

I think that's why I post here. I have this feeling and desire but its the dumbest thing to do in the big picture so I post here to get it out of my system???

****

Its very interesting that I got drunk called yesterday.... AND, freaky enough his statements to me were in direct line to what I posted here. Weird.

His words were slurred... and overexaggerated "HOOOOWWW ARRREEE YYOOOUUU". You went out of town last weekend. I don't know where you went or who you were with. Did you have a good time? What one thing did you do outside your comfort zone? Where did you go? Were with you B? You were with B weren't you? You need to do more things outside your comfort zone. You have to let go of your fears. Then I got more "HOOOWWWW AARRREEEE YOOOUUUU".

Its just weird how I just posted about my need for more "hand holding", "encouraging", "pushing" me and ultimately despite dragging my feet I really wanted to do motorbike trips with H and fishing, etc. AND, I would probably scuba dive with him at some point too... I see his argument that he felt I didn't really want to because I wasn't all in the very first time so I must not really want too....

So he is drunk and telling me I need to get outside my comfort zone ---- why? what does it matter to him?

Oh well. Moving on. I'm sure he has no memory of making that call.

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So you picked up the phone ?

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Ignore or block him. Pretty immature!

Who is B?

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Originally Posted by LH19
Ignore or block him. Pretty immature!

Who is B?


H is at a 10 day veteran retreat. This is his 3rd year at this one. Its gets real for these men. My H and his army bff drink and smoke cigars heavily the entire week. Now during our M H would occassionaly drink and sometimes get drunk but for the most part he lived low key but this week was the week he would completely let loose.

It was this time last year that his army bff threw out PTSD to me in regards to my H. I didn't know how to take that and we had been drinking at the time so my response was probably not the best. I do know that my response really upset my H but I only learned of him being upset at BD months later.

So I know it can get pretty raw... and pretty stupid during this week.

So I'm not holding it to mean anything but I also know he will 100%have no memory of it either so sweeping it under the rug.

B is my male bff of 40yr.... our high school English teacher gave us nicknames that we use to this day with each other!!! H has never met B in person but before BD was friends with him on FB and had some casual banter with him. B lives several states away. He was in town a few years ago for a weekend for family stuff and asked me to meet up with him at a local bar one evening for drinks and catch up. I remember telling my H where and what I was doing but things got held up and I was home at 11pm instead of 10pm.... UGH... he was so angry/jealous. I had even let him know I was running late and we weren't alone at the bar as another high school class mate joined us.

Weirder is when H BD me at one point he said "you can go be with B now". WHAT?? I have NEVER been with B romantically at all in 40yr. Our relationship is more like brother/sister for 40yr.

Anyway, I found to be more like comedic karma that after minimal contact for 3 months his drunk message to me was I needed to get outside my comfort zone more. Oh well....

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
So you picked up the phone ?


No

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Originally Posted by KitCat
Originally Posted by Ginger1
So you picked up the phone ?


No


Pumping fist into air!


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Originally Posted by Steve85


Interesting: I am The Executive - ESTJ, though I am more of a Omnivert than a true Extrovert. so I can also be a bit of a ISTJ.

So if you look at the one we are opposites in: Thinking vs. Feeling then you can see why you and I have had such a difference of opinion. What many of us tried to get you to see is that acting on Feelings will often lead you down the wrong path. In fact, letting your emotions rule your actions is diametrically opposed to what you should be doing for DBing! This is why we say that DBing is counter-intuitive. Your feelings will make you think that what you are doing is wrong....because it feels wrong. "What do you mean that I can't tell the man I love that I love him?" Feels wrong.....but it is the RIGHT thing to do if your ultimate goal is to save your marriage. It may not result in saving your marriage, but it gives you a better chance than does following what FEELS right.

As far as the -T, I don't remember dealing with that when I did my Myers-Briggs assessment as part of management training for work (it has been several years), but I looked it up. Assertive vs Turbulent. I would definitely be a -A!. But I can see that you are -T which makes sense based on what we've observed here. The problem I see that might arise in for the Turbulent is that stress gets them motivated. The problem in our situations, as we have stated many times, it that often you are better off doing NOTHING than something. Turbulent individuals react to stress by doing. KC, this is a huge opportunity for you. Since as a -T stress motivates you....remember that doing nothing IS doing something!

I personally love Myer-Briggs. Like you I think my Myers-Briggs type is spot on in explaining how I view and look at things.



I think it really explains why I am so quick to own my side of street and taking responsibility for my mistakes in our M. How I carry such a heavy burden in owning all my mistakes. Not in a way that frees him of his mistakes but clearly really holding on to my short comings.

It also explains why I am constantly pouring my emotions out here... I feel get it out here and not where you really want to put it.

That being said H has texted me since Friday - looking for some of his army stuff. What he asked about I know 100% was packed with his clothes and stuff from the closet. BUT, I also know he is looking for his army coins and those I think are in my jewelry drawer. I waited 36hr before letting him know that I did find X.

H actually texted and asked "could I get you to bring those to the campsite for me?" an hour away.

Of course in my head I stated. OK, this is is WHAT I want to do. I want to say that yes, I would take the time time out of my day to bring this for you but I want something in return. I want to do this workshop and would like you to do it with me." NOW, that's what I wanted to say to him. But, then I stated out loud (cause I live alone)... the right thing is the opposite thing of what I want to do... I want to bring him his stuff because I want to please him. But, that just reinforces I'm low value. The right thing to do is to say 'no'.

Grateful, its Monday and work is crazy busy so I don't have time to think how dumb this weekend was.

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Originally Posted by KitCat

In continued efforts in self improvement I took the Meyers Briggs --- I am "the defender" as ISFJ-T.

Its definitely me.


Always good to learn more about yourself. Myers Briggs was interesting for me because it helped me to realize that a lot of my behavior is not "weird" but is specific to who I am. And that there is a whole segment of the population that is similar. I'm an ENFP and we really struggle with mundane tasks. We want everything to be new and exciting. So things like laundry and yardwork are seriously difficult to do. M-B helped me to realize that there wasn't something "wrong" with me, it's just who I am. And I just have to put forth more effort to overcome my lack of interest in mundane activities.

Quote
When H got a motorbike it was outside my comfort zone but I was warming up.


Quote
I can see the flip side of how H felt --- his thinking was if he had to ask me more than once then I was never really interested in it so he just bailed and formed an opinion how our interests are too different.


Quote
I sooooo want to print this out for my H to read.


Quote
Frankly, I have great interests if he would do the test too... it might help me understand him even better.


I can sympathize with your desire to "figure H out" (we all go through it to some extent early on) but he's gone, in an R with another woman and it's no longer your concern. Please grasp that and understand that the BEST thing you can do for you AND for him is to let go. I know it's hard but it's your path out of this mess. This is you trying to hang onto that rope rather than drop it.

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H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days.


I don't really get the impression that he's angry and resentful. He just sounds "done". There used to be someone here years ago who would often say "do you know what the opposite of love is? It's not hate, it's ambivalence". It's not caring, and that's where your H is.

Quote
H actually texted and asked "could I get you to bring those to the campsite for me?" an hour away.

Of course in my head I stated. OK, this is is WHAT I want to do. I want to say that yes, I would take the time time out of my day to bring this for you but I want something in return. I want to do this workshop and would like you to do it with me." NOW, that's what I wanted to say to him. But, then I stated out loud (cause I live alone)... the right thing is the opposite thing of what I want to do... I want to bring him his stuff because I want to please him. But, that just reinforces I'm low value. The right thing to do is to say 'no'.


That desire to negotiate is just another way you're hanging onto the rope. And I sincerely hope you didn't reply to his request, that was very rude of him. I mean... WOW. He's got some cajones, that's for sure.


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M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander


Always good to learn more about yourself. Myers Briggs was interesting for me because it helped me to realize that a lot of my behavior is not "weird" but is specific to who I am. And that there is a whole segment of the population that is similar. I'm an ENFP and we really struggle with mundane tasks. We want everything to be new and exciting. So things like laundry and yardwork are seriously difficult to do. M-B helped me to realize that there wasn't something "wrong" with me, it's just who I am. And I just have to put forth more effort to overcome my lack of interest in mundane activities.


I think that's why I was curious about what my H would be --- mostly to look back and see how that fit into our conflict or challenges or more importantly why he felt the way that he did.

As you pointed out it makes zero sense to go down that road. To me its more reflective curiosity???

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H is still dealing with lots of anger and resentment and can't even see me for who I truly am these days.


I don't really get the impression that he's angry and resentful. He just sounds "done". There used to be someone here years ago who would often say "do you know what the opposite of love is? It's not hate, it's ambivalence". It's not caring, and that's where your H is.


I'm sure you are right. Oh, I know there was TONS of anger in the beginning. Raging at me in person, via text or on the phone. There hasn't been that for some time now. Frankly, I have not physically seen my H in over 3months... perhaps a few texts from him every week or so... I do know he admitted to being numb and just not caring any more about this or that in our M. And, he was clear, though raging at the time last March when he screamed that there was no hope for this M when I filed for legal S.

I'm working really hard at keeping the focus on me. Making plans for myself. Keep moving forward and NOT worrying about what he is or isn't doing. Its not easy but I will say I'm not nearly as emotional now as I once was months ago?

I know I have not dropped that dang rope 100% yet.
Quote

Quote
H actually texted and asked "could I get you to bring those to the campsite for me?" an hour away.

Of course in my head I stated. OK, this is is WHAT I want to do. I want to say that yes, I would take the time time out of my day to bring this for you but I want something in return. I want to do this workshop and would like you to do it with me." NOW, that's what I wanted to say to him. But, then I stated out loud (cause I live alone)... the right thing is the opposite thing of what I want to do... I want to bring him his stuff because I want to please him. But, that just reinforces I'm low value. The right thing to do is to say 'no'.


That desire to negotiate is just another way you're hanging onto the rope. And I sincerely hope you didn't reply to his request, that was very rude of him. I mean... WOW. He's got some cajones, that's for sure.



Yeah... I realize it as a rookie move but I just wanted to show my thought process. Recognizing how I want to respond to something, what I want out of something and then telling myself the option that is correct is the opposite of what I feel like doing.

I won't lie - once I told him I had the coins .... I was like - he is going to ask me to bring them to him at the campsite... and BOOM, he did. Yup, I still know my H.

I suppose he was drunk when he texted? I'm sure he knows what a bone head thing that was to do and it took liquid courage to be stupid enough so he would have something to blame.

2hr ago I got "sorry drunk texted last night"

^^^That was it.

Ignored.

Last edited by KitCat; 09/14/20 07:41 PM.
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