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Originally Posted by tom_h
If you don't mind, tell me a little more about NMMNG with your GF. What specifically did you change? I can imagine both the trivial (e.g., where you go to dinner or which movie to watch) to the non-trivial ("it's time for me to meet your parents" rather than "whenever you think it's the right time").


Good question. I've worked on my covert contracts. In my marriage my XW controlled our sex life. It wasn't terrible (1-2/weeks), but it felt stale. If I did things for her (loving things, chores, etc.) and she wasn't in the mood, it would often make me disappointed or upset. I did things with an expectation that I'd be rewarded. I'd let it fester inside. I think it's a bit normal for a guy. I've really tried hard to break free from that. I still do things for my GF, but without expectations. And sometimes, I say no. I try to keep all of our interactions flirty and fun--without the expectation that it will lead to sex. To be honest though, my GF is much more "sexual" than my XW, and she likes that I lead our sex life. Our sex life is fantastic. Hopefully, that isn't just limerence.

I've learned women don't want wishy washy guys that are always asking them what they want to do. I know where my GF likes to eat, where she likes to have a drink, etc. Instead of asking her what she'd like to do, I will say "I feel like having a drink at [a bar she may like]", and she's usually like "sounds great". Other times, I choose the place I like. If we have a free weekend, instead of asking her what she wants to do, I will tell her that I'm in the mood to take a road trip to a specific place. It's just a different mentality.

Getting through my divorce forced me to control my emotions and expectations. I try to be a rock for my GF--calm, cool, and collected. Nothing's going to bring me down. smile

The thing I've worked on the most is to truly listen to my GF. Women aren't looking for us to fix things--which goes against our nature. I don't even have to agree with what she's saying, but I try to validate the feelings behind her words.

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BTW, I started dating my GF a little over a year after BD and about 9 months after divorce. Everybody's timeframe is different. I think if you really look inside yourself, you'll know if you are ready.

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Originally Posted by harvey
I try to be a rock for my GF--calm, cool, and collected. Nothing's going to bring me down. smile

The thing I've worked on the most is to truly listen to my GF. Women aren't looking for us to fix things--which goes against our nature. I don't even have to agree with what she's saying, but I try to validate the feelings behind her words.


Wow! Perfect.

I have two daughters and a lot of what I'm doing, as I become a different man, is watch how they respond. They like the more vulnerable Dad. Without criticizing their Mom, I tell them about hopes and dreams that were dashed when my STBXW walked out, just so they can get insight into how wonderful a guy I am.

I also show that I am totally open to suggestions that they make. For example, my youngest (age 19) was talking about the reason she drinks non-dairy milk. So I went out and bought oat milk, the first time ever I just didn't get regular milk. Both girls were really impressed. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big a deal, but to have let them influence my life, even in a small way, mattered. I also decided that people matter more than ideas or politics. So I get off my high horse a lot when it comes to things like that -- more accepting of the world the way it is, not critical. To my girls, it is a huge thing. I expect it will be the same to a future GF or Mrs Tom.

As for the timing when I begin to date again, thanks for your perspective. I think the right approach is to start slowly, tasting a lot of the wares out there, and make good choices. There's more I could say but probably not here.

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Hey Tom. Just reading your sich here. I feel for you. I don't have much to offer in terms of advice. I am a newbie here. However, I do know that the pain gets a little easier each day. I still have emotional periods, still breakdown sometimes but it is getting easier. It's really helpful to have a community like this to lean on when times are tough. I hope things get better for you

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Originally Posted by tom_h


As for the timing when I begin to date again, thanks for your perspective. I think the right approach is to start slowly, tasting a lot of the wares out there, and make good choices. There's more I could say but probably not here.


I think I found your next 180. Stop thinking of women as wares to sample.

This is not an indictment of casual dating. But talking about women as if they were property? Eww.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Originally Posted by Rose888

I think I found your next 180. Stop thinking of women as wares to sample.

This is not an indictment of casual dating. But talking about women as if they were property? Eww.
Sorry, Rose, it was just colorful language. I didn't mean it any more than if I had said I was smelling different flowers looking for a good scent or going to a different restaurant each day during restaurant week. I will feel no compunction about casually dating a lot of different women when the time is right.

I am a consummate gentleman and never mistreated women nor gave away my heart easily nor was the type to juggle multiple bed partners at a time. Somewhere else in this thread I did say that the dating world for 55-65 year olds is very scary, and believe me I will not settle down quickly. The baggage that both the men and women carry is considerable.

But thanks anyway for keeping me honest.

Last edited by tom_h; 10/04/20 06:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by TimW10
Hey Tom. Just reading your sich here. I feel for you. I don't have much to offer in terms of advice. I am a newbie here. However, I do know that the pain gets a little easier each day. I still have emotional periods, still breakdown sometimes but it is getting easier. It's really helpful to have a community like this to lean on when times are tough. I hope things get better for you

Tim, thanks. I've had a good life, and given that I had a rough childhood I sometimes think I've lived a charmed life -- until last year.

Our marriage wasn't perfect -- yes it was blah in the years leading up to her walkout without notice, yes, she had lost interest in sex 20 years earlier after children, yes, she was not always on "Team Tom" when I needed her emotionally, but still -- STILL -- I was committed to her. I called her the love of my life to my kids, and that was sincere. I wanted to grow old together. I was loyal to her. I never spoke ill about her, even in my weakest moments. I don't have a temper, I have no anger issues, I never called her names. I would have never left her, ever. If she had gone through what I had gone through, I would have carried her rather than leaving her.

So the worst part is wondering whether I made the right choice 30 years ago; sometimes I do. It also hurts wondering if I'm damaged goods. If I'm a failure at marriage. If I have poor discernment regarding people. If I just can't love as a woman wants.

It has been a year for me, so I'm ahead of you. And yes, the pain gets easier. If it seems like it's fresh it's because I found no forums like this until 6 weeks ago, already 11 months after D-Day. But I'm much better. On the anniversary of D-Day, I sent a message to my kids about my journey. My girls were pretty shocked that Dad was so open. But what the hey, if a Tom 2.0 is going to be a reality, there will be a lot more surprises than Dad talking about his feelings.

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Originally Posted by harvey
BTW, I started dating my GF a little over a year after BD and about 9 months after divorce. Everybody's timeframe is different. I think if you really look inside yourself, you'll know if you are ready.


harvey, the problem isn't timeframe....it is mindset. If the LBS is dating to "stop the bleeding" (IE put on a bandaid) then they are doing it for the wrong reasons. Your timeframe is a short one. Not sure how things are going with your gf, but I would argue that in the vast majority of LBSs, 9 months post D, after BD was just 4 months prior, is not a healthy timeframe. Maybe it will work out for you...maybe it won't. But LBSs have other things to be focusing on in the shortterm and dating isn't one of them.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by harvey
BTW, I started dating my GF a little over a year after BD and about 9 months after divorce. Everybody's timeframe is different. I think if you really look inside yourself, you'll know if you are ready.


harvey, the problem isn't timeframe....it is mindset. If the LBS is dating to "stop the bleeding" (IE put on a bandaid) then they are doing it for the wrong reasons. Your timeframe is a short one. Not sure how things are going with your gf, but I would argue that in the vast majority of LBSs, 9 months post D, after BD was just 4 months prior, is not a healthy timeframe. Maybe it will work out for you...maybe it won't. But LBSs have other things to be focusing on in the shortterm and dating isn't one of them.

Steve, I think you're one of the guys who told me 2 years at minimum before dating. I suppose what you mean is that the LBH needs to settle down emotionally and accept what happened; then GAL and start 180s. What do you think the driving factor is here? The 180s? Because it took me 90 days to finally accept things emotionally, and don't get me wrong, those were horrible, horrible days, the last 45 of them being Thanksgiving and Christmas last year.

Here's my point. We need connection with others to make the 180s work. And for we men, so often it is matters of communication and sensitivity. How do we know how we're doing unless we have women friends?

I get it, intense sexual relationships will blind us to our changes. Men are generally dumb enough to think that they're in love when the sex is just wow! And yes, divorced women who we date will probably be very hot to trot.

But why not coffee dates? Why not more simple connections? Why not female confidantes? Because these will be the ones who give us feedback on our 180s. At least in my case, it won't be my ex!

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Originally Posted by harvey
BTW, I started dating my GF a little over a year after BD and about 9 months after divorce. Everybody's timeframe is different. I think if you really look inside yourself, you'll know if you are ready.

Wow, that was a quickie divorce. Were you in Nevada?

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