And... it might just have a positive affect upon H. That is not the reason - you are the reason. If H experiences a loss and gets pushed forward a bit, well that’s a bonus.
Stick to your guns. “We are separated. This is what happens when you’re separated.”
Stand strong. We’ve got your back.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you KML, DnJ, Scout and PLC... it is really supportive to process this with you all.
H hasn't brought up the issue again, despite the fact that we interacting a few more times yesterday. He was distant and tried hard to 'ignore' me. I won't say anything unless he brings it up again.
Where I need continued help/advice/support is how challenging it is for me to not 'fix' this whole situation. Not so much in the specific instance of the birthday party; but in the broader sense of trying to build a roadmap towards friendship and mutual respect. I can see that H is not going to instigate this, nor offer an olive branch. But I know that he would likely respond positively if I were to do so.
But that feels like me reverting back to old patterns in our R and I want to do things differently now. I can feel the seeds of change in myself and my way of relating to others. And I am trying to convince myself that if me doing things differently leads to the final demise of our R, then it wasn't a R worth saving anyway.
How do I navigate this in terms of standing for and trying to 'save' my M and/or build a post-M friendship with H?
It really doesn't work to try to "nice" someone back from the brink of a divorce. I have seen a lot more results when the WAS saw the LBS starting to get their own life and they realized they weren't waiting quietly on a shelf for them as a Plan B - sometimes the WAS will wake up and start to realize what they are losing.
And you handled it in the right way - not as punishment, but simply acknowledging that it hurts you too much for him to be there at this time. You're not shutting the door, you're just not allowing him to abuse you. It's setting a healthy boundary. You can be kind and have healthy boundaries at the same time. Stick to the high road but at the same time don't let him cross those healthy boundaries.
And you're right - if he can't respect your pain, if he can't feel an appropriate amount of concern for the pain he is causing you, then it might not be a relationship worth saving. Time will tell.
So glad you stayed strong on this one. It is NOT YOUR JOB to make your H feel better. Your job is to take care of you and your beautiful children. You can be the best mom you can be when you are safe and whole and healthy.
I'm going to say the thing I hate when people say, which is that he fired you as his wife. Ugh, I hate it when people say that. But honestly... why, why, why do you care if he is devastated? Honestly, so what? He has betrayed you and lied to you and left you. He went on a trip to see the OW and didn't answer his phone when you were trying to let him know that your child ran away. Letting go of caring about him is not petty or punishing or any of the rest. Your energy needs to be focused on you, and right now, you know for yourself that making this easier on him means twisting yourself into a pretzel and shoving down your own needs in favor of his.
What can you do to let go of your need to cushion his landing? You have to spend whatever emotional bandwidth you have at the moment on YOU, so that you can be there for your kids. THAT is your number one job.
At some point there was some conversation on my thread about me preventing my H from feeling the consequences of his own choices and therefore preventing him from the growth and work he needed to do for himself, which was, in the long run, the wrong thing to do, even if it felt easier in the moment. I think this might be applicable to you. I know it feels so uncomfortable to let him be in pain. Can you think of him like a child? That by making this all easy on him you're helicopter parenting and not letting him make his own choices and experience the natural consequences of them, and have the opportunity to experience growth and learning from those?
In the sense of standing for your M, the only way back for him, if he does come back (which somehow I think he will, please no-one ding me for saying this but I've always felt this about Sage's H) is if he goes through the process of truly understanding and accepting the consequences of the decisions he has made, and if it turns out that those aren't things he can live with, doing the hard work of personal growth and change to become the kind of H that you deserve. I think of this like that children's song about going on a bear hunt... can't go over it... can't go under it... can't go around it... have to go THROUGH it. He has to go through this in order to come out on the other side someone capable of a true partnership with you.
And in the sense of having a mutually respecting co-parenting relationship or even friendship with him eventually, this HAS to be a two-way street. It doesn't work for it to be you bending over backwards so that he can do the bare minimum and reap the benefits and accolades of a perfect D. This feels like you just extending the same dysfunctional dynamic of your M into a post-M world.
You don't have to be cold or mean. You also don't owe him any explanations. If you need fuel when you start to let that gigantic heart of yours get the better of you, think of him snooping in your house and reading your journals and then using your high school words against you. Think of him ignoring your phone calls on his trip. Think of him making dumb cracks about women to your family. Think of your dad telling you this isn't your circus. And then think of the whole and healed feeling inside yourself that you're nurturing and protect that little seed like it is your fifth child.
((SAGE)) xoxoxoxo you can do this.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Excellent questions and insight into your inner challenges and changes.
Quote
...but in the broader sense of trying to building a roadmap towards friendship and mutual respect.
Don’t try - do.
Friendship and mutual respect will take two parties involvement.
Originally Posted by Sage4
I can see that H is not going to instigate this, nor offer an olive branch. But I know that he would likely respond positively if I were to do so.
Yes, that is most likely true. Your role would be to lead.
Originally Posted by Sage4
How do I navigate this in terms of standing for and trying to 'save' my M and/or build a post-M friendship with H?
Be kind and cordial. Compassionate and indifferent (when called for).
Led and live your life honourable and respectfully. To H, to others, and most importantly to you.
You lead. You live that life, that person you want to be, that women only a fool would leave. If H doesn’t follow. If H leaves - then he is without doubt, a fool.
Marriage restored, or post-M friendship, or whatever - ensure your side of the street is proper. Be the best you can will be.
kml and May have both given great advice. Figure out your healthy boundaries and stick to them. That is being true to you, and leading H (and others). We really do teach people how to treat us.
You act respectfully and boundary H’s disrespect. That is the path to friendship and mutual respect. Will H walk it?
“I know that he would likely respond positively if I were to do so.”
If H’s running is winding down, ensure you remain a safe place for him to land. Lashing out, or punishing, will not have a good affect. You need to be the bigger person, and bite your tongue. Don’t worry, later, much later, you will have opportunities to ask those questions and say those comments. Funny thing, those very things so pressing right now, become less and less important as you progress. Remember feelings fade; find your believes and values.
Those convictions, values, and beliefs - those are what you stand with. It becomes standing for you. It’s not standing to save your M, it’s standing to save you. It’s standing to become you.
My advice, and what I’ve followed (I believe) - be you. The best you. If that leads to the demise of your M or R, so be it. It’s not that the M or R wasn’t worth saving - it is you are worth saving!
H will do what he will do. You become the best version of yourself, and no matter what the outcome is of your M or R, you will not regret your life and choices.
In the broader sense, that is the path.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Sage, I've got to run but just wanted to say I'm so happy to read that you are sticking to what you feel in your gut and know is healthy and right for you, and of course everyone here is so helpful in validating that! Hold on to that seeds-of-change-in-yourself feeling. Let that guide you through doubt. ((Sage))
Birthday child asked about the plans for his birthday and whether H will be there or not. Before I could answer, he said he wanted H there, that he would feel bad for his dad if he was left out. I said that I wasn't sure that was going to happen, that I had some hesitations, but that I would talk to H.
Here's the conundrum for me: H has so much guilt surrounding abandonment (he was abandoned as a very young child in boarding school). My children do not. It has been a huge issue in our parenting approaches over the years-- he smothers them with his guilt, projecting it onto them, even though they have never felt abandoned by him. It has come up in the children's therapy over the past year, that they feel responsible for his emotions and if they don't reciprocate or 'take care of him' emotionally, that they are somehow bad or not good people.
At this moment, my children are in a position of feeling lots of anger towards H and are very emotionally sophisticated. They have expressed anger at how he is leaving 'to be happy' but in the process, he has made so many people unhappy (me and them) and he is only thinking of himself (not to mention they don't think he's happy). But at the same time, they feel responsible for his happiness and won't say anything to him that may cause him to feel bad or sad.
So, back to the birthday. If I don't allow H to come, birthday child will feel like he has to make it up to H emotionally. Birthday child won't feel he is able to share stories of the fun and exciting things that happened at his birthday because it would hurt H that he wasn't there. So then my child is back in the position of stuffing down his emotions to please H. And just a little background here: child's birthday falls on a very fun kids' holiday here in the US, and has always had his birthday overshadowed by this holiday. This is the first birthday ever where normal activities for this holiday are not happening due to Covid, so all the excitement and energy is now on birthday child. His friends are ecstatic, he is ecstatic and it's likely this is the only birthday in his remaining childhood where he will have this level of attention solely on him on his actual day.
I am not sure I am capable of putting my child through this no matter what I feel about H being there.
H hasn't mentioned it this weekend, but I am sure he will at some point today. My thoughts are to tell him that it is important to our child that he is present, but that my house is a sacred place these days where love, friendship and kindness are welcome. That even if we have to fake it, the only way he can be present is if all resentment, anger and insecurities are left at the door and friendship prevails.
