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kml Offline
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Lol only 19!

I have to admit - the picture you paint is pretty grim.

And don’t be too quick to dismiss her pain meds. People with chronic back pain are a setup to become addicted to narcotics. And addicts can be manipulative. And opioids make people unmotivated and tired. ( Note - I’m not saying chronic back pain isn’t a biatch or that they don’t deserve pain relief, just that narcotics are a problematic solution to that problem. ) If her back pain is so severe that she can’t go walking or do basic household cooking and cleaning, I’d say she might need better , more targeted pain management. Sometimes surgery is indicated, sometimes physical therapy, sometimes patients with a “failed back” need an implanted pump.

I can see how her history with her father and ex might make cleaning an emotional issue with her -OR- maybe she was always lazy about cleaning. Seems to me you only have a few options:

1) Pray her daughter finishes the unpacking with her and things change on the cleaning front ( I’m not hopeful)

2) Accept that she’s a slob and hire a cleaning lady (I’m not a slob but not quite the clean freak my ex was either - hiring a cleaning lady to come in once every two weeks was the best thing we ever did for our marriage. And the pressure of the cleaning lady coming makes everyone pick up their stuff). Is this something your budget could possibly stretch to afford? Seems crazy for her to be home all day and you still have to clean toilets on your day off, this could relieve you of some of that burden.

3) Accept your role as Dobbie the house elf and continue to work full time and clean up after three dysfunctional people.

As for the work issue - she’s basically telling you she’s never going to make an income. What will she have once S13 grows up? Welfare payments? No alimony if she marries you, right?

Seems pretty obvious her affection for you is also colored by her need for someone to support her and rescue her. This is a lot you’ve taken on.

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kml Offline
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Oh - and don’t will the house to her. And don’t be setting any wedding dates. You’ve learned a lot in a year that wasn’t apparent in the beginning, you need more time to see what else is to be found out.

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kml has given you some very, very wise advice, just as the other posters have.

I have back pain from an accident many years ago and I finally broke down and purchased a back brace to wear when picking up heavy items or doing gardening work. It works very well. I don't know if this is something that S has considered purchasing, but you do see a lot of people wearing them when they have to pick up heavy items. As for her meds for her back, doesn't sound like they are working too well. Time for her to go back to her doctor and discuss other options. If she truly is living w/a lot of pain, I would think she would want to see what her other options are and start thinking about doing something for that pain.

Andrew, you know how I feel about your situation and I am so sorry that your house needs a "Molly Maid" right now, but even if things are finally unpacked, you will still be facing slob mentality because they are blind to the mess and have lived this way for a very long time and it's now become a standard routine for them.

Even if she gets a divorce in the very near future, which I don't see happening, please do not set any wedding dates. There is more to her situation than meets the eye. Evidently her last husband wasn't too thrilled w/her cleaning and keeping the home clean. Take what she says w/a grain of salt and remember...there are two sides to every story.

I hope you have a good day today.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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((((((((((((((((((((((Andrew))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I really had to think about what I wanted to say before I responded because I just don't want to beat you up. I think you are a lot like me in that you will beat yourself up far more than anyone else could anyway, but I just don't see the need to pile on. On the other hand, I'm not going to softball you either, because you are a grown, intelligent man.

Let me make a confession here: my life has been a series of roller coaster rides the past year-ish (and I'm totally NOT a fan of roller coasters, by the way). In October, we had the meth lab bust in our building, which left us all in this weird state of being displaced for weeks and wondering what ramifications to our own health existed thanks to professors meth basically blowing up their lab while we were all in the building. While that was stressful enough by itself, I added moving to Sparky's into that heap and moving into a house that is older and needs work and still has 2 rooms and every available cabinet stuffed with his grandmother's crap. Boxes and furniture were hauled in and stacked with a "we'll get to it soon" mentality. In the midst of all that, I was planning a wedding, trying to plan holidays and buy Christmas gifts, make decorations for the wedding, budget for the wedding and holiday spending, settling into a disorganized new home, and the budget issues were really starting to get serious at work. It was a LOT. Sparky and I got married Dec. 31, I turned 50 January 30, and the pandemic hit and sent me to self quarantine beginning March 13. So, the stress, emotional upheaval, and just general blah have had me lazy and unmotivated so there are still 2 rooms in our house that have doors closed and are crammed full of Sparky's grandma's stuff because I just haven't had the energy to deal with them. Consequently, our den and dining room are equal portions of furniture that belong in those rooms and boxes of stuff that will eventually live in the 2 spare bedrooms when they are shed of grandma's leftovers. So, I can empathize with S feeling overwhelmed. I have lived in Sparky's house for roughly 11 months now and I still feel that and I openly admit we still have boxes here and there. It is embarrassing to me because my mom keeps dropping not so subtle hints about coming to see our house and I just don't want her there right now. I'm about to the point of just loading the boxes, still taped closed, in my truck and hauling them to the thrift store because if I haven't opened the boxes and used the stuff since November, do I really NEED it now? So, like I said, I get what S is going through, to a point. I'm not making excuses for myself, though I know it sounds like I am just like I don't think S is necessarily using her ADD and her back issues and being overwhelmed as excuses.

Having said all that, though, Andrew, here is my actual response to all that: PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE! I suspect that S has always been like this. Though I have really been hard on you throughout this whole thing, I have also tried really hard to be team S and realize that I don't know all the subtle nuances of your lives and I'm only hearing one small portion of it. The more you say about S, the harder it is for me to stay on team S. In your last post, the very last line you wrote was that you are still hopeful for the future, but you just have to get through the physical chaos first. Andrew, my friend, look at S' life before she lived in her house. What part of what you saw then leads you to believe that there is any state other than chaos that S has ever lived in? At what point do you realize that this is all just part and parcel of who she is?


I'm sorry, Andrew. I really don't mean to beat you up. I should probably go back and erase every bit of that but the initial hug at the very beginning, but I put it out there, so I'm standing by it. You are too good to settle. Do NOT settle!!!!!!!


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
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Dawn said very well what I wanted to say to you. And I know when I say things they aren’t taken so well, which is fine. I typed and erased a few times, but I really just want to point out the part that dawn said.

The present is your future. This is who she is, this is how she lives. It’s not changing. Chaos is a normal state for her. Being sedentary a normal state state for her. Not working and big plans with no follow through is who she is. Hoarding is what she does. Being a poor housekeeper, not motivated to clean and organize is who she is and how she lives. Your present will be your future .

Your question to yourself should be “ can I live like this?” “Do I want to live like this?”

Because this is what it is. You will always be in this chaos because that’s who she is and how she lives. Can you accept it and is this what you want? Be honest with yourself.

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((((Andrew))))

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Man, I even feel bad for you Andrew! I do think it's great you are starting to acknowledged what you believe you are seeing. It's often easier for those on the outside to see things like this more clearly rather than a person in love trying to see it. The feelings and attachment seem to really color things. Like is often said, the first step in solving a problem is agreeing and acknowledging that it exists.

I keyed in on the controlled substances, given my own struggle, getting treated now 12 years ago. Just because a doctor may be prescribing it doesn't mean the properties of addiction have not taken hold. Perhaps worse yet, she may be on two opposing medications - a stimulant and a depressant. I've got a pretty good idea what the stimulant is but am less sure if she's on an opioid or a benzo and hopefully not both at the same time! While opioids all act on the same mu receptor in the brain and do essentially the same thing, some are much better (or worse) at causing problems. Back in the Elvis days it was Demerol - something found to really be so dangerous it's not nearly used as much anymore today. The modern day is oxy, but even morphine, which often produces less euphoria can cause a person to really struggle - or make struggles that are already there all that much worse. The sleeping until noon and no ambition is one of them.

Perhaps what this really boils down to is S is not at all in any place to be in an R. She has very little to bring to it and far less to give than she takes. She needs to get herself "fixed" first before you can do anything. I think you already know this but getting things unpacked is not the end game here. It's getting her engaged. I mean think about this, her 13-year old is in charge of getting her up... at noon??????? OMG OMG OMG. And this crapola about she can't work due to her back is just, well just that. She seems to have been living off others all of her life - ex husbands, the government, and sadly, now you.

But, you asked not to go into all of it so I won't go any further, as I'm pretty sure, deep down, you already know. I'm just hoping this finds a conclusion and you don't go any further down this rabbit hole than you already are. Please, please, please DO NOT marry this woman! I'm nearly begging you and I don't even know you IRL! Just don't do it. If history has to repeat itself, it will have to be S that bails, because you won't do it. But staying positive, you are at least now admitting the reality to us and most importantly to yourself. That's a huge step forward so I'll just give you a big congratulations on that and leave it there. That's a major positive step!


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I am not going to beat you up. Your post really made me feel quite sad and wanting to give you a {{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}. There's the hopes we have, the best foot forward stuff, then there's the reality, and the wondering where to compromise and if you can. You have quite enough on your plate without me heaping more.

Know that you will always have a safe place to vent here.

xoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Andrew my Canadian friend, I will share the quote I often quote on this board but I’m not sure it was ever more fitting.

“You can ignore reality, but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality”’.

Now that’s something to think about.

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A bit early but new thread time I think.

Had an interesting exchange with S the other day, after she'd gotten made about my friends warning me about her taking advantage of me.

Her daughter had called to vent about her H. S commented - people need a place to vent.

Yesterday was an overall crappy day - but decent as compared to some crappy days I've had.

S18 woke us up early to let us know that the cat had found a mouse. Cute little guy who was terrified. He was hiding under a bookshelf. We weren't able to catch him and shoo him outside. And I put down poison in the cellar right where they come in. S strongly disapproves of poisons but we can't have random woodland creatures roaming the house I feel. Only those with proper training and safety certificates.

It then turned out that nobody had cleaned up the kitchen yesterday. There had been a house-full with S's D26 helping organize (did a great job - lots put away), the two boys and the D19 and recently re-instated BF showing up and of course being fed. S was patient with me and knew that it was all more than a bit much for me to take and so I went to bed early.

So - especially given the mouse situation, I put the food that had been left in an open pot on the stove into containers in the fridge, cleaned up the cheese and other things that were still all over the counter which then gave me space to make my breakfast. This made me about 20 minutes late for work which was frustrating and added to the grumpiness.

S had mentioned that her D26 had said that she felt bad about leaving a mess - S doesn't take ownership of messes.
I know that this is a big frustration for S18 - who is also messy - but he complains to me regularly that his mother is always at him to clean up when she doesn't either. I think he's starting to get the "see something - do something" approach that I follow. I don't worry about blaming, I focus on getting the job done both personally and professionally.

Work was crazy too - fortunately a slow order day given other things going wrong.

We had a container with about 1000 litres of nitric acid in it that we had concerns about fuming during pre-shipment inspection. We finally got the lid loosened and I stupidly reached out and touched the gasket which had been shredded. Possibly the wrong material. Then went off quickly and washed the two tips of my fingers. Multiple times. Stupid stupid stupid. I didn't blister but the fingers still tingle a bit and one is a bit brown. Learning experience. We were able to get the proper gaskets installed and make the customer's truck fortunately. I suppose I should have done the paperwork to record an accident but didn't. I laughed to myself later when the guy who deals with this product all the time basically did the same thing but it didn't bother him at all.

Lots of crazy going on at work - much of which involved me making decisions about things that I'm frankly not the expert on and so relying on those people who are in fact experts and trying to translate between them. We operate on very short time horizons, sometimes measured in hours. I work with a lot of great people though who generally have a good sense of humour and a focus on just getting stuff done and not worrying about point fingers of blame smile One of the reasons why I can't see myself working anywhere other than in an industrial environment.

It was good to be at the plant though to deal with these things in person. I'm a see it (and occasionally touch it) kind of guy even though technically I'm just the guy who figures things out. I joke to the production staff that I'm their "pretty secretary" - yes we can be misogynistic on the production floor.

S spent the day up babysitting GS1 again. She is doing this at least a couple of days / week and it takes up her full day. School is seriously messed up here and hasn't been able to start as far as the online learning goes and S13 didn't want to go with her so she left him home. I didn't even know he was here when I got home until I heard the upstairs TV going.

I did get the kitchen largely sorted out. It took me a bit over 2 hours to go through the backlog of dishes. Then the other end of the day chores that I usually do. S had washed some through the last few days but didn't do the bigger things. It's a good feeling for me to see a clean counter. One of the few things that I emphasized to S early on as being important to me. I did say that since it was important to me that I would make sure it was done so - no finger pointing. S didn't get home until I was already in bed which is usually the case when she baby-sits. Her daughter works at a restaurant

Well - now for the new thread. I've read everyone's messages and appreciate the kindness and support more than you can know.

Give a Mouse a Cookie
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904475


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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