Fierce compassion, equanimity, integrity

[wooba]

congrats cardinal! I'm happy for you that you don't have the financial stuff looming over your head anymore. I'm cheering you on!

[PLC]

Hi Cardinal,

I am happy for you! Congratulations on the job!

You are doing well with your “teen roommate” keep it up. Those of us who have one, know how difficult that can be at times.

PLC

[cardinal]

Thanks for the advice, kml and Sage, and for the kind words of encouragement, PLC and wooba!

I've come across some things that belong to H as I was cleaning out my desk. I decided to just collect those kind of things in an envelope and give him the envelope when (I'll think positively here) he moves out. I don't know what to do with the pictures of us. They seem pointless to keep now. I guess it's best to just put them in a box for the time being, as you say, kml. The wedding albums--it's clear all of this bothers me. I feel like he should have to bear the physical evidence of our M as much as I do, even if that's deciding to stick it under his own bed or throw it away. If I have to make those decisions, he should too, instead of taking the easy route of just leaving it all with me and pretending it doesn't exist. I know he does have some cards and other tokens from me in his nightstand, so at least he will have some stuff he has to deal with moving or keeping hidden away or tossing or whatever. I thought about all the photos his mom has of us, and that brought me a little comfort. He can choose to forget we were ever married if he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that we were.

And on to what KML said about the 'stuff': a boundary around this may be to pick your battles but don't play all your cards at once, if that makes sense. You need to keep some bargaining chips, as she said.

Sage, I'm so glad you posted this! I wasn't thinking about this in terms of boundaries at all until you pointed this out. It's one thing to know what I will or won't spend the energy fighting for, but it's another to just keep giving, giving, giving, I think. I don't want my not caring about, say, a TV, to get confused with my accepting what H has previously expressed--that I don't deserve anything. I think this is what I was trying to figure out a few posts ago, when may said what does it matter what H thinks, as long as I know why I'm doing something (or not). I don't think I have well-defined boundaries for myself in this area, and that's why everything feels muddy.

IC reminded me to keep repeating that everything is joint property, no matter what I choose, no matter what H says about whether it should be his or not. He might yell about our M not being a partnership so he can avoid responsibility, but that doesn't make what he's saying true. She reminded me not to drink his koolaid, and I feel like sometimes the koolaid is on slow drip, and I'm not conscious of it. And then I remember it and get angry.

For instance, I stayed calm during the last interaction as he told me what I would pay and when (because I'd already been planning to get my own account and stop depositing my checks into our joint account), but post-interaction, my anger starts to rise up, and it feels like I'm not defining or enforcing a boundary. Why? I'm trying to figure this out. Maybe someone here can help me untangle this.

I'm starting to feel like he has crossed and crossed and crossed a huge boundary, which is: I will not be disrespected! I will not accept this treatment from anyone! This treatment being: my H wants a D but does not file and instead continues living here with me, his wife, while dating. He does not/cannot see how that is disrespectful to me. What that says to me is, "You don't matter anymore. You don't matter, even if you were and technically still are my wife. You don't matter, you barely exist in my world, so why bother with the mess of filing for a D?" (I'm putting aside, for a moment, that fact that he also occasionally tells me I have no right to live here.) Or, now, "You matter only because you are now able to pay half of the joint expenses." Whether that stems from MLC or not, whether H can see it that way or not, isn't that what his actions are saying? I decide whether or not I accept that behavior, right? Have I been implicitly accepting it without fully realizing it? I don't think I've succeeded in not internalizing, at least partly, his warped point of view.

Because if you don't have boundaries, you are essentially saying one of two things: 1) I am worthless (which reflects poorly on the other party's choice); or 2) you are powerless because you can do anything to me and I will not react, you are so beneath me/not worth my reaction/I am bigger than you.

Am I essentially conveying that to him by (outwardly) accepting the status quo?

Maybe I am starting to realize how much it has crept into my subconscious, and I resent him for that.It's like I live under his assumption that we are roommates and therefore I owe him X, Y, Z, but then I have a moment of recognition and remember I never chose to be roommates with him! I chose enter into a partnership with him in M. He ended that partnership. I don't want to be his roommate--I don't want to have discussions about splitting the internet bill and water usage. Why am I still here? For a while it was because I had hope that H would turn around. That's no longer a reason. I'm still here in this house because I believe I am entitled to it--he wants a new life, he should leave. Even as I've come around to being more open to leaving myself in the last month, I still believe that he should be the one to leave. Another reason I'm here is that I can't afford the rent of another place, even on my soon-to-be new salary. (And I think the new salary means I may not be entitled to support, or at least very little.)

Why haven't I filed? I still want him to own his decision. Faced with challenges in a M, my choice is to at least attempt to work through those challenges. My vows were for better and worse. I don't have control over what he chooses, and obviously he doesn't choose any of that. Whatever his reason(s), this is where we are. When DnJ says standing is for you, this is what I think of: I choose to live by my values and beliefs--at this point, even if I do hold out hope H will come back to the H I knew someday, that's not the thing driving me. Best-case, a great house would come up for rent, magically at this same price (hundreds lower than current market), and I could live my values and beliefs elsewhere, with separate finances, and not care about what the heck H was doing with his life. But now he's going to have a roommate (me) who's paying him for half the expenses--why should he ever lift a finger to D? To move?

I fantasize about calmly saying to him next time he brings up what costs we should be splitting, "Funny, that we're still married, and you've been dating for months now. Do you ever think about the fact that we're still married?" Or, you know, when I'm on conferences at home for new job, loudly referring to my husband over and over just to remind him and hopefully push him to, uh, start the steps to change that status. I know how pointless all of that is. I know! But especially when he is acting outwardly happy and like everything is normal, I want to remind him (and me), Hello--this is not normal! You are living as if we are D and we aren't! (Remember when I just wanted to be friends, at least, with H? I think I'm finally accepting this is not how friends treat each other, and I don't want that version of friendship.) Definitely channeling some anger from May's thread and her ability to lay out the facts for her H!

I sometimes wonder: if I wasn't so resistant to (and probably accurate to say scared of) losing so much money in this process, would I decide to file, simply because it is a formality at this point, doesn't preclude future R, and because I'm ready to embrace this new life on my own? Would I have hired a L to hopefully help get him out of this house by now? (Maybe if they had assured me that would be easy, it would be a different story.) One thing this last year has taught me is that I really, really value feeling secure, and financially secure. All of that was taken away with BD. It's one reason I felt ready, recently, to leave this state--it's so expensive, especially when you don't have the benefit of two incomes. I do not want to lose the money I have saved up in the last year on my own, the money that will help me get my footing in this next, independent part of my life, to a D I didn't want in the first place. Isn't that the main thing stopping him--not wanting to face the financial reality? Does that make me as irrational as he is? Oh, boy. Didn't this post start out about boundaries? I do think it's all related.

[Sage4]

Cardinal, you sound so strong. You are asking ALL the right questions of yourself.

I want to gently point out where boundaries are and are not in your post.

IC reminded me to keep repeating that everything is joint property, no matter what I choose, no matter what H says about whether it should be his or not. He might yell about our M not being a partnership so he can avoid responsibility, but that doesn't make what he's saying true. She reminded me not to drink his koolaid, and I feel like sometimes the koolaid is on slow drip, and I'm not conscious of it. And then I remember it and get angry.

This is a boundary. Everything is joint property. You can give him everything, if you want, that's totally fine if it feels OK to you. But he cannot take everything just because he feels like it. Sometimes boundaries don't need to be spoken out loud to be there. Just holding that knowledge in your head and making decisions with it there is enough sometimes.

For instance, I stayed calm during the last interaction as he told me what I would pay and when (because I'd already been planning to get my own account and stop depositing my checks into our joint account), but post-interaction, my anger starts to rise up, and it feels like I'm not defining or enforcing a boundary. Why? I'm trying to figure this out. Maybe someone here can help me untangle this.

This is a place where you may need to find a boundary. I am reading between the lines that maybe your anger is at yourself for allowing him to walk all over you. You don't have to come up with a boundary on the spot, BTW. And you don't have to come up with a boundary all by yourself. In this instance, when he starts telling you what you will or won't pay for, you might say 'I need some time to digest all of this, can we continue the conversation in a couple of days?' And then go speak to a L and get the boundary you need.

I'm starting to feel like he has crossed and crossed and crossed a huge boundary, which is: I will not be disrespected! I will not accept this treatment from anyone! This treatment being: my H wants a D but does not file and instead continues living here with me, his wife, while dating.

You have not set up a boundary here. You are asking him to do something, change his behavior, act differently. A boundary is about what YOU do, not him. But, this is tricky territory to navigate. A boundary would be YOU instigating D because you will not accept this treatment. And then you say:

Why haven't I filed? I still want him to own his decision. Faced with challenges in a M, my choice is to at least attempt to work through those challenges. My vows were for better and worse. I don't have control over what he chooses, and obviously he doesn't choose any of that. Whatever his reason(s), this is where we are. When DnJ says standing is for you, this is what I think of: I choose to live by my values and beliefs--at this point, even if I do hold out hope H will come back to the H I knew someday, that's not the thing driving me. Best-case, a great house would come up for rent, magically at this same price (hundreds lower than current market), and I could live my values and beliefs elsewhere, with separate finances, and not care about what the heck H was doing with his life. But now he's going to have a roommate (me) who's paying him for half the expenses--why should he ever lift a finger to D? To move?

Which tells me that maybe you're not quite ready to put up a boundary yet. Which is OK. You have good reasons to do what you need to do. Maybe you will need to put a boundary here (file for D) or maybe not.

I fantasize about calmly saying to him next time he brings up what costs we should be splitting, "Funny, that we're still married, and you've been dating for months now. Do you ever think about the fact that we're still married?" Or, you know, when I'm on conferences at home for new job, loudly referring to my husband over and over just to remind him and hopefully push him to, uh, start the steps to change that status. I know how pointless all of that is. I know! But especially when he is acting outwardly happy and like everything is normal, I want to remind him (and me), Hello--this is not normal! You are living as if we are D and we aren't!

Saying anything like this to him will not produce the effect you desire, sadly. I have started writing down my fantasy quips and responses to the things H is saying or doing. And then try to let it go. When I go back and read them from a few weeks ago, I can see so clearly how it would only have made ME feel worse if I actually said them. That his response (or lack thereof) would have been so hurtful to ME.

I sometimes wonder: if I wasn't so resistant to (and probably accurate to say scared of) losing so much money in this process, would I decide to file, simply because it is a formality at this point, doesn't preclude future R, and because I'm ready to embrace this new life on my own? Would I have hired a L to hopefully help get him out of this house by now? (Maybe if they had assured me that would be easy, it would be a different story.) One thing this last year has taught me is that I really, really value feeling secure, and financially secure. All of that was taken away with BD. It's one reason I felt ready, recently, to leave this state--it's so expensive, especially when you don't have the benefit of two incomes. I do not want to lose the money I have saved up in the last year on my own, the money that will help me get my footing in this next, independent part of my life, to a D I didn't want in the first place. Isn't that the main thing stopping him--not wanting to face the financial reality? Does that make me as irrational as he is? Oh, boy. Didn't this post start out about boundaries? I do think it's all related.

I have this little 'prayer' that I will learn more about myself and grow from this awful experience. You are learning some valuable things about yourself that will serve you for the rest of your life.

Hugs, Cardinal! xx

[DnJ]

Hello Cardinal

I do love the questions you are asking yourself. Shows a lot of inner reflection, and finding your beliefs and values.

When DnJ says standing is for you, this is what I think of: I choose to live by my values and beliefs--at this point, even if I do hold out hope H will come back to the H I knew someday, that's not the thing driving me.

Excellent.

Your life gets driven by you.

Remember, you have plenty of time. Exam your beliefs, values, and convictions. Strengthen or create those you want and admire, and alter or discard those you don’t.

Your beliefs will drive you. Live your beliefs.

For instance, I stayed calm during the last interaction as he told me what I would pay and when (because I'd already been planning to get my own account and stop depositing my checks into our joint account), but post-interaction, my anger starts to rise up, and it feels like I'm not defining or enforcing a boundary. Why? I'm trying to figure this out. Maybe someone here can help me untangle this.

Feelings. Let them flit. Do not make decisions based upon feelings. Look to your beliefs.

This journey is counterintuitive. It will feel wrong at times, until you get to the other side. Other side of what you ask? Grief.

You are working your way towards acceptance.

You are posting a lot of feelings. Perfectly natural and ok. You stay calm for an interaction with H, and then get angry after. You hold your tongue, you want to say stuff, and you wisely know better. But, you feel different. Hence all the questions.

One of the thing I see is indifference. You are indifferent while discussing and then that indifference falls away. Again, quite normal; indifference rises and falls just like everything else. The new interactions with H, your new job and the beckoning financial freedom it affords, stir up emotions and realizations of loss. Those realizations and loss is grief.

We all traverse our grief at many different stages and different events depending on what happens and what we can cope with at the time. All of us are in all of the stages for different parts of our situations. Somethings you are close to acceptance, even forgiveness. Others you are angry about, still walking towards acceptance and healing. And grief is not linear, nor well delimited between various stages.

Specifically for the above statement of “it feels like not defending or enforcing a boundary”. Let it go. It’s a feeling. Those will flit away once not reinforced. So very counterintuitive, and feels so wrong. Have faith. (((Cardinal)))

I'm starting to feel like he has crossed and crossed and crossed a huge boundary, which is: I will not be disrespected! I will not accept this treatment from anyone!

I’ve already spoken about feelings. Let’s discuss boundaries.

Boundaries are for you, not H (or whomever). Boundaries protect you, and might influence H’s behaviour towards you.

Boundaries are not for things you want, they are for things you need. Respectful behaviour towards you during interactions is such a thing. Your self worth is yet another.

There are a few kinds of boundary templates. Basically there is setting the boundary and enforcing it.

Setting: When you _____, I feel ______, I want __________ .
Enforcing: If you ______ I will __________ .

Example: When you cook your food and leave the dirty dishes in the sink, I feel like I'm living with a pig. I want you to clean up after yourself from now on and show some respect for my home. If you continue to behave like an animal I will move the dishes into your room so you will be more comfortable.

A boundary is USELESS unless you are prepared to ENFORCE it. You will be challenged and tested on every one of your boundaries. So make darned sure you can enforce them because if you don't you are wasting your breath and increasing the contempt he feels for you.

Boundaries are serious stuff. Ensure you know and believe, not just feel, in the boundary.

This treatment being: my H wants a D but does not file and instead continues living here with me, his wife, while dating. He does not/cannot see how that is disrespectful to me. What that says to me is, "You don't matter anymore. You don't matter, even if you were and technically still are my wife. You don't matter, you barely exist in my world, so why bother with the mess of filing for a D?" (I'm putting aside, for a moment, that fact that he also occasionally tells me I have no right to live here.) Or, now, "You matter only because you are now able to pay half of the joint expenses." Whether that stems from MLC or not, whether H can see it that way or not, isn't that what his actions are saying?

Cardinal, your feelings are getting the better of you. Let them wash over you. Focus on you.

You are filling in a lot of blanks here. Projecting your anger onto him and his behaviour. Mind reading by thinking, and unfortunately starting to believe, the “what that says to me”.

I decide whether or not I accept that behavior, right? Have I been implicitly accepting it without fully realizing it? I don't think I've succeeded in not internalizing, at least partly, his warped point of view.

H most definitely has a warp point of view. His ideas and reality is skewed and twisted. Be careful not to internalize it, although I do sense you have somewhat believed his narrative. I also see you rising up from it. All pretty standard stuff for the healthy journey of the LBS.

About his behaviour. You choice of wording - “Accept that behaviour” - is interesting.

You seem to be speaking from emotions here, and it is confrontational. Either/or thinking going on - “I decide whether or not I accept that behaviour, right?”.

Accepting. Yes, you do decide to accept or not. That is within your control. It’s control I want to discuss, for it goes with boundaries. You only control you. You cannot control H.

Counterintuitive alert! You have to accept H’s behaviour. (I know I just said you get to decide, bare with me). H has the right to behave however he wants too. And he suffers his consequences from his behaviour. Accept that.

You decide to accept the disrespect, or not. There is a difference.

You cannot stop his behaviour. You boundary the disrespect. For example, leave the room when he is disrespectful. Period. Every single time. No exceptions. He speaks to you properly or you will go into another room, and he can talk to the wall.

You do not control H. You cannot stop his behaviour. You control you. Your boundaries’ enforcement is what you can control. Which are your thoughts, actions, and reactions.

This treatment being: my H wants a D but does not file and instead continues living here with me, his wife, while dating.

I pulled out just the behaviour or lack of action, and left all the anger and emotions and mind reading out.

Get to your intellectual realm. That place of indifference. H is typical MLCer behaviour. This is H’s path, which has nothing to do with you; it is all about him. His dating is a band-aid, is just running and not facing his demons. As is all his outbursts and blaming you. You know all this! And, you feel different.

Do not make decisions based mostly or solely upon feelings, those will lead to regret, guaranteed.

H wants a divorce and doesn’t file. Why? The simple truth, because he doesn’t feel like it.

MLCer’s are driven by their feelings. The less confrontational, the less pressure, the better chance of them progressing along their path. It’s his journey, and you are not invited along.

I would have given anything to have my wife remain in the house and stall in proceeding with a divorce.

Why does your H feel like not proceeding? Who knows. Perhaps he is confused. Well no, he is confused. It’s when they aren’t that they jump and blow things up.

The question is why is he confused? That answer is something inside him. Something might just be there, a wee realization, a small whisper of doubt, that he is on the cusp of making a huge mistake. Stay the course Cardinal.

Focus on you. Treat him like a roommate. No pressure, and let him see that you are not the cause of his torment.

Is that what you want? Is that how you want to live? Probably not. However, stand for you! Find your beliefs.

Vows, marriage, yourself, loyalty, for better or worse (you are in the worse right now), faith, hope, etc.

Stand for you.

You can outlast his MLC. He may not awaken. And he may awaken. No matter what, I guarantee you will!

Stay the course, it is for you. The outcome is so worth the struggle. You are worth this struggle.

Let go H. Give him to God.

Let H own his D, if that is what he chooses to do. You are prepared, and will deal accordingly, and businesslike.

There is no rush, for you have the gift of time, even though it may not always feel like it.

D

[cardinal]

PLC, Sage, I've been feeling and thinking about anger lately too. It's clear I was a bit angry when I wrote this last post, and I've been thinking about where that anger was/is coming from. On the one hand, I've come so far in acceptance of the situation that I no longer think much about what ifs. That question that comes up, that many asked me early on--you don't want to be with H as he is now, do you?--well, I have a clear answer to it now: No, I don't! Never has it been clearer that this is his journey. I am ready to leave him to it entirely. I don't want to live with him, either. I am ready for him to continue his journey elsewhere. All of that is contributing to a sense of impatience. I want my physical and mental space back. I've taken back so much through DBing over the last 14 months, but at the end of the day we still live together in the same small house.

Which tells me that maybe you're not quite ready to put up a boundary yet. Which is OK. You have good reasons to do what you need to do. Maybe you will need to put a boundary here (file for D) or maybe not.

You are right. I think part of my anger was in realizing I'm still not ready to enforce this boundary (by filing). And not for a noble reason like I 100% believe in my vows. That's part of it, but it's largely also wanting to avoid the cost, and knowing my filing would make him more unreasonable and probably wouldn't result in anything happening any faster. It's also me stubbornly thinking it's not *fair* for him to walk away from the M and leave me with the burden and work of filing. Sage, it's also a good reminder I don't have to have a boundary ready in the moment at all times. I can think about it and change my mind.

You cannot stop his behaviour. You boundary the disrespect. For example, leave the room when he is disrespectful. Period. Every single time. No exceptions. He speaks to you properly or you will go into another room, and he can talk to the wall.

You do not control H. You cannot stop his behaviour. You control you. Your boundaries’ enforcement is what you can control. Which are your thoughts, actions, and reactions.

One of the thing I see is indifference. You are indifferent while discussing and then that indifference falls away.

Also accurate. More and more I realize I haven't let go of H saying in that last interaction, sarcastically, "Welcome to the real world!" All of these irrational jabs he makes--when I don't take the bait and respond, I know that is right. But if I am angry about that still, I wonder if I should have put a boundary in place there, which would have been walking away from the conversation if he is going to leap to comments like that. I wouldn't let anyone else talk to me that way, but not to respond was another choice I made in the moment--to let it go so that I could get in and out of the financial discussion, which was fairly agreeable to me, as quickly as possible. This is a slippery slope for me. If my long-game is a low-conflict D (as much as is in my control) and keeping in mind what I want/need in the outcome, knowing that there is more chance of different aspects working in my favor so long as he files, because it's his idea, or if he decides to leave on his own... for instance, when he told me (again) in July he intended to file and move out, I told him I was intending on staying just because I thought we were both stating our plans. He seemingly took that as a challenge and reversed course. So I am trying now to let him think everything is his idea if it benefits me, and to say as little as possible because he will understand anything as antagonistic.

Now it appears he is no longer depositing his checks in our joint account. I think this is fine, because I'd already set up my own and was planning on no longer depositing my income in the joint once I start paying half of joint expenses in October. I do wonder if I will now have to remind H to deposit his half of the rent into the joint account on time, so that there is always money there when rent is automatically deducted. Seems like something else I will be responsible for keeping track of.

There is also still the issue of whatever remains in the joint savings I can't access. Of course H has never given me any of the financial docs I requested in July. One boundary is that I will refuse to discuss any agreement or negotiate with him until I have all the information I am entitled to. Now that it appears we're separating most other finances, should I bring up that the savings still needs to be divided? Again, even if he agreed to divide it, I would need to see statements first, and he is obviously not in a hurry to give them to me. So I've been thinking I might as well wait and not say anything about the savings now, because any pressure I put on H that has to do with this D process seems to make things worse. I keep telling myself that it's not like I'm going to let this go forever--either through mediation or with L, eventually, I will get the financial info, and I will go through statements to make sure all of the $ he took from savings to pay off what he said was debt from the M was in fact debt from the M, and not all the expenses he incurred after the date of separation.

Is that what you want? Is that how you want to live? Probably not. However, stand for you! Find your beliefs.

Vows, marriage, yourself, loyalty, for better or worse (you are in the worse right now), faith, hope, etc.

Stand for you.

You can outlast his MLC. He may not awaken. And he may awaken. No matter what, I guarantee you will!

Stay the course, it is for you. The outcome is so worth the struggle. You are worth this struggle.

Let go H. Give him to God.

Let H own his D, if that is what he chooses to do. You are prepared, and will deal accordingly, and businesslike.

Whatever is stopping H from filing for all these months has nothing to do with me or our M and everything to do with him, I believe. There are no indications he has any regrets or second thoughts. I'm not sure if I'm standing any longer or not some days. I think it's more that I am done holding out hope, because I am more secure in knowing that H, in his current state, is not for me. There's no there there. I've fully accepted that there is no working on M with someone who has no interest in that, and who would first have to do much work on his own. It's much harder for me to imagine any future with H in it (or to want to imagine that sometimes, because of all that's happened), but, at the same time, I'm not closed off to unknown future possibilities.

[kml]

They don't file either because it's too much work when you're in Fantasyland, or because it benefits them financially nt to do so.

. I do wonder if I will now have to remind H to deposit his half of the rent into the joint account on time, so that there is always money there when rent is automatically deducted. Seems like something else I will be responsible for keeping track of.

Can you call the landlord and have them start deducting your half from your account and his half from his? Or are you worried he would stop paying?

Re: the savings - roughly how much money are we talking about here? It does concern me that hes not being forthcoming with the paperwork and won't let you see the account. Odds are fairly good that he's spent it, or done something else with it. If it's likely to be a substantial sum, you may need to file just to protect your financial interests. If we're talking about $5,000 it may not be worth it, but if we're talking about $200,000 I would never leave that in the hands of an MLCer. Sometimes filing for divorce isn't about not standing but is just about protecting your financial future - you can do both.

[PLC]

Cardinal,

Maybe this is the season of angry feelings with an MLCer. Or maybe it is a mini stage of indifference.

Whatever it is, I feel stronger with it. I will, stay nice when around H, because at this moment in time, I am standing.

I wonder if these feelings are my subconscious preparing me for being ready to drop the rope and move on. Whatever they are, for you and for me, we just need to take care of us.

((Cardinal))

PLC

[cardinal]

Geez, H is already balking at splitting the pest control bill, though he backed down right away and said okay, sure, not a big deal. I'm wondering if I need to make a list for myself of what I am willing to pay myself or not pay--more boundaries. For example, I will continue to pay for all pet expenses, since he's pretty much given up all responsibility for them, and it's another way of showing I have taken over full ownership/care. Do I continue to buy shared items like laundry detergent, kitchen supplies, etc.? I think it's not the small amount of money that matters to me on those--but I do sense a bit of resentment building there, in that his "Welcome to the real world!" echoes again, as I think, "Sure, buddy--the real world is one in which all household supplies don't magically get restocked right before you run out of them!" I realize that I just need to let that resentment go, and the larger resentment of the fact that he can "demand" I start paying joint expenses, but not do the D work or attempt an agreement or share financial info. Anyway, I don't want to be petty and add up every little "joint expense," like foil, but I also want to be careful not to give too much. Gosh, I'm sensitive about being walked over or taken advantage of by H, am going to really learn to understand and flex that boundary muscle.

Can you call the landlord and have them start deducting your half from your account and his half from his? Or are you worried he would stop paying?

I'm not worried he'll stop paying altogether, just that he'll get distracted and forget to pay by a certain date. Through his MLC so far, though, he's kept up with the bills the same as he always has, so maybe it's more the fact that this is just adding a little bit more to my mental load--i.e. the need to check the account and make sure he's put money there at the first of the month. If he did stop paying, it wouldn't be a big deal now that I will have a better job. I would be able to cover his half and then maybe have even more claim to the house.

Re: the savings - roughly how much money are we talking about here?

Not a huge sum--it started out at 27k before he admitted to there only being ~14k left after he (he claims) used it to pay off his credit card over the past year. Ls I talked to said this kind of thing (one spouse using joint money to pay off debt without informing the other) is common, and if it was debt he incurred during the M, even though it wasn't a joint credit card, even if I didn't know about the debt, that was fair game. They agreed I would want to get statements to confirm that 1) the money went to his credit card and not somewhere else and 2) that it wasn't for a substantial debt he racked up after separation.

I wonder if these feelings are my subconscious preparing me for being ready to drop the rope and move on. Whatever they are, for you and for me, we just need to take care of us.

Anger has definitely come in different cycles throughout the past year for me, PLC, and you're right: focus on ourselves and take care of ourselves in whatever ways we can. Don't feed the anger or resentment, I think--accept what you're feeling and let it move through you. Each step toward dropping the rope and toward acceptance for me has come with waves of different emotions, and each time, DnJ points that out. It's good to always have a reminder that it's normal.

[DnJ]

Hello cardinal

More and more I realize I haven't let go of H saying in that last interaction, sarcastically, "Welcome to the real world!" All of these irrational jabs he makes--when I don't take the bait and respond, I know that is right. But if I am angry about that still, I wonder if I should have put a boundary in place there, which would have been walking away from the conversation if he is going to leap to comments like that.

Good on you for not taking the bait!

More on boundaries for you.

H needs to vent. He is angry and is venting. As well as projecting. His “Welcome to the real world” is really directed at himself. He just cannot face it. He cannot be wrong. His mind/emotions just cannot accept certain things right now. Seriously, he is a messed up dude.

Letting him vent - a bit - is actually a good thing. If he is going on and on, and calling your disparaging names or other derogatory titles and references, that is not ok. It’s a little bit of stick and stones thinking.

Your best and strongest boundary is your shield. Mental assertiveness. That brightly polished shield. You know H is messed up, in MLC, doing all manner of crazy stuff - He cannot hurt you!

He cannot hurt you!

It’s true. His words are just words. You control you. Be indifferent to him - shield. Let him yammer on. Who cares. Nothing he says can really hurt you. Your boundary is your mental understanding of what he is going through, and seeing the truth beyond his words. It’s about him.

He cannot hurt you! (I figure three times is pretty reinforcing )

You have a sharp mind. Your sword is sharp. You shield is strong. Use it. Use them.

You wisely are keeping quiet. A lesson learned from being reasonable and stating your plan on remaining. Negotiating with a MLCer takes finesse. They need to feel like it is their plan or decision. Like they are in control.

The joint checking account. It’s joint. Go to the bank and get the statements. You might have to pay for them, so what. I would also get yourself access to your account. It is a joint account after all.

As kml said, perhaps having each half of the rent taken directly from each of your individual accounts would be a good course of action. It’s clean and easy to implement with H. No explanation or rules about depositing on time or anything; it between him and the landlord, and nothing to do with you.

I'm not sure if I'm standing any longer or not some days. I think it's more that I am done holding out hope, because I am more secure in knowing that H, in his current state, is not for me. There's no there there. I've fully accepted that there is no working on M with someone who has no interest in that, and who would first have to do much work on his own. It's much harder for me to imagine any future with H in it (or to want to imagine that sometimes, because of all that's happened), but, at the same time, I'm not closed off to unknown future possibilities.

Standing really starts when one is healed enough to stand down.

I do understand and empathize with everything you said here. From a friend:

Yes, you think (and feel) you are done with hope. What do you believe? And what do you want to believe?

Hope is just possibilities, those positive ones. There is always hope! For there are always possibilities.

Of course, you do not want current H. No more than I want my current XW. You have fully acccepted there is no working on M with someone like H. Have you accepted that M is dead? There is no M. Anything future will be a new one, a new R, a new M.

Yes, it is difficult to imagine a future with H in it. Same here with XW. And yet you are not closed off to the possibility. Same here as well. By the way, that it hope.

Standing really starts when you are healed enough to stand down. What do you want to believe? Strengthen, craft, alter, discard.

Stand for you.

(And as kml said, D is business and for protection if you need it. You can D and stand. You can do both. Best if you let H own it, if you can.)

Look hopefully towards your future. It is bright. Believe it.

D