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Originally Posted by wayfarer
I've seen a lot out there on how if the spouse never really saw the MR as a M, or truly understood what a MR is you're MR is already wide open to cheating. H never really understood M, or what a MR really means. Through this process has started to understand that love isn't just about individual happiness. It's not about being in a transactional relationship. That it's truly about being willing to sacrifice you're own happiness for the MR, your spouse and your children. He says that I got him there. That it hurts knowing that I loved him so deeply and until now he really didn't even know how to give that kind of love. The self sacrificing kind. It's in moments like that that I realize keeping that lighthouse imagery in my head in my hardest times was the very best thing I could've done for myself and for us. I'm not all about the good Christian wife stuff. That's just not who I am. But being an example of how to love trauma after trauma after trauma makes me feel like I'm not just doing something right in my MR or my family, but that I'm just doing something right. Not letting all the bad in my life chill my heart. Knowing that it's still beating and ready and willing to love no matter how many times it's been broken.


This is such a beautiful paragraph, WF.

I remember that you mentioned H has insecurities. What role do you think insecurities play in H not really understanding what real love is or a MR? Do you think that your H has worked on some of his insecurities to reach this level of understanding? And how are you navigating those insecurities now when they pop up? Do they interfere with your own need for healing (ie, you can't be authentically hurt and say so because H will take it so personally because he feels so bad about himself for doing what he did to you?)

At this moment in my situation, paring back everything to the root and what I see is my H's insecurities leading us to this place. Of course it was a dance and I participated with my own issues, but if H wasn't so damaged by his childhood and didn't carry his insecurities with him everywhere, I don't think we would be in this place. And I am worried that he will never eclipse his insecurities in this life and that I will second-guess everything he does or doesn't do as being driven by those insecurities and not his authentic self (although maybe his authentic self is the insecure one).


Just musing on a Saturday morning. I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving!

xx

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May and Sage I'll get to your questions when I get a chance in the near future. I promise. However tonight I'm struggling a little bit and I kinda need to word vomit. Reconciling and piecing isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

H is a completely different man than he was 6 months ago. He's a different man than he was 9 months ago. A year ago. 8 years ago. And some days I struggle with this version of him for a multitude of reasons. Prior to the A my husband was moderately helpful, and sweet. Prior to the A we genuinely enjoyed each other's company and actiively worked at co-parenting these kids we had with difficult/absentee other parents. He did all things a "good" husband did on the surface but looking back now I think I felt it was very surface, I think maybe I knew and that's why I kept so much of myself tucked away from him. But it wasn't until we go to the other side of this that I really truly realized that he was never in this the way I was until now. H never truly put me or the MR first. It was always just a thing that made him feel better about himself and more secure. He never really did much if anything to ensure the relationship was serving me and making me feel secure. I just can't shake the sinking dark feelings I get when I think about how much I convinced myself that all of this half-a$$ love/relationship was ok.

This H is so much more open with me. He's so honest. He's so caring. He goes out of his way to tell me that I'm beautiful, amazing, how much he loves me, how much he appreciates that I waited him out, how much he appreciates me in general, all of that, is wonderful. It truly is. But it makes me wonder a lot about why I was willing to tolerate behavior below or far below this for 7 years. I mean I know why. I'm terrible at picking mates, my bar is so pathetically low. But knowing things should've been like this, not could've, that they should've been like this but weren't is really kind of sticking in my craw right now.

And once I start on that downward I start heading down other dark roads. I start wondering if he misses her. I start to wonder if she's going to go out of her way to reach him. If she wants to given how they know each other no matter how he blocks her if she wanted to she could reach him. I start wondering what she'd need to say or do that would get his attention. If she did manage to would he do this again? Would he actually leave me that time? Would he be better at hiding it? Would he not waste time this time and just go right away? No confusion. How long do I have? How long before he can't deal with me or the MR or life again and goes right back down that road?

Then I start wandering down the path that this time last year I had just asked him to go to the couch and to stay there. I was crying myself to sleep every night. I was crying in my car. I was crying in my office at work. I had set a meeting with a counselor and a lawyer. Honestly I'm days away from the anniversary of losing my absolute sh!t on H for going to the mall with OW. Thinking about that night specifically cuts me in ways the entirety of the A doesn't. So much happened in just a few hours. There were moments I completely lost control. Like entirely, I my best friend had to come with her husband and pick me up out of the parking lot so I wouldn't smash their windows. And the second she hugged me and gave my keys to her husband I couldn't stop crying. I couldn't even breathe. I sobbed at her kitchen table for hours before I finally went home and went to sleep. H looked right through me like I was ghost when I came home. We never said a word to each other after me screaming, really screaming at him over the phone earlier. All of this right now is just a reminder of how much pain I was in a year ago.

Everyday is starting to feel like an anniversary of the h3llscape that was my life in Nov-March of last year. I am moving forward. I'm working every day on forgiveness. I'm working every day on me. I'm working every day on us. But somedays it's very hard to see how ok we are and not be angry at how much time he wasted. Or sad and hurt on what I had to endure for him to figure this all out. Given this was the road I chose. The outcome I wanted. I know that. I should probably be sharing some of this with H. But I don't know how much is too much or what's not enough. I know I should and will discuss this with IC but were going longer between sessions now, so I'm hoping somebody can offer encouraging words or advice or something.

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Wayfarer,

You've been through so much in your life and you're a pro at being self-aware and figuring stuff out. You have always been honest to yourself of your shortcomings and strong suits. The fact that you've kept marching on is the best testament to your patience and fortitude.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
Everyday is starting to feel like an anniversary of the h3llscape that was my life in Nov-March of last year. I am moving forward. I'm working every day on forgiveness. I'm working every day on me. I'm working every day on us. But somedays it's very hard to see how ok we are and not be angry at how much time he wasted. Or sad and hurt on what I had to endure for him to figure this all out. Given this was the road I chose. The outcome I wanted. I know that. I should probably be sharing some of this with H. But I don't know how much is too much or what's not enough.


No time was wasted. You guys couldn't have gotten to where you guys are without all the sh1t that happened in between. Your H wouldn't be the evolved H he is right now had you guys not gone through the "mediocre" relationship that led to the A. You were betrayed, and the feelings of betrayal is not something you can overcome and wiped clean. It takes so much time and work and commitment from both of you to ride out the waves when the feelings from the past come crashing out of nowhere. You chose the path but you don't have to endure the pain alone. I think it is necessary to share that with your H. Nobody knows for sure what's too much and what's not enough, but I think the point is to trust the process, believe in the fact that things will be better when you guys work together by diving deep into each other's vulnerabilities.


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That anger is normal. I still occasionally deal with it. I also still have anger over the years of SSM. We missed some prime sex years we can never get back. And also I wonder what life could have been if we had split. But then I'm also so thankful for MR2.0. So wayfarer I think your plan to discuss it in IC is a good one.


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Oh darling Wayfarer, you're spiraling.

Is it the moon right now?

Sister, you have been a rock to me these past few days when I have been in a downward spin. Can I walk with you right now? Can I hold your sweet face in my hands and say 'you are enough, you are deserving, you are worthy, you are loved' over and over until you believe it? Because all of that is the truth, sweet friend.

When I read your and May's posts, I keep thinking about BluWave's process of piecing and how dang hard it is. And she didn't even start sharing her story until she was a year deep in piecing, so we don't even see the hardest early days of her reconciliation. But reading her posts, it's clear that she had ALL of these feelings. I bet many piecers, if they were reading, share your thoughts.

I have a hard question for you, which doesn't need an immediate answer. And that question is: what if it is OK that H's A is what it took to for him to reach the best, most loving, most appreciative, most actualized version of your coupledom? What if he needed to see your most shameful state (not that I think your actions were shameful, FWIW) and see you in your most evolved lighthouse state, and then see you go through all the stages of grief, and then come out the other side the best version of yourself? What if he just needed to see the extremes of your emotions as a reminder that you are human. Alive. Feeling. Imperfect and yet the perfect person for him?

Several years ago, I lost my Dad whom I was really, really close to. The loss was very sudden and huge for me and my whole family. My third child was 5 weeks old and I buried myself in the grief and developed undiagnosed PPD. I stopped feeling. I closed down. I started coping instead of really living. I had a surprise pregnancy with my 4th when the 3rd was only 7 months old (4th child was in the plans, but not so soon). I know that losing a mom is different than losing a dad, but losing any parent that you are close to is a huge blow. And most people suffer from that blow.

I am not justifying or condoning H's actions in any way shape or form. But I know from my own situation that losing a parent caused a shift in my R. Especially with an insecure H that needed extra love and reinforcement, two things I was woefully in short supply of for a number of years. Again, this is not a justification of his actions. If anything you (I) needed more love, compassion, patience, tenderness and acceptance during our losses. But the reality is that we married humans, whose only guarantee was to deliver the most human reaction within their capability and knowledge at the time, insecure and imperfect as it may have been.

Your H is back. He is the most loving, best version of himself he can be at the moment. Nothing has changed in terms of his ability to cheat; now or in the future. Nothing. Let that one go, because you spent 7 years not really worrying about him cheating and you get to choose whether or not you want to spend the next 7, 28, 56 or more years engaging in the hypothetical of his future cheating. 'Innocence lost,' you may justifiably wail. And you are right. But you still have the power to choose whether or not to engage with that demon.

With the most love and compassion I feel it is unfair of you to both appreciate your current situation with an evolved, loving H and bemoan the fact that he wasn't this way always. If this shift had occurred because he had some sort of trauma, or a non-marriage threatening event, you wouldn't think twice about celebrating M2.0. Ergo you get to choose: perfect H now (innocence lost) or imperfect H before (innocence intact). You don't get to keep both in your head. Let one or the other go.

You are enough, you are deserving, you are worthy, you are loved.

((((((WF))))))

Also, I would chose you to be a friend IRL if given the chance.

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(((WF)))

Originally Posted by Sage4
Can I walk with you right now? Can I hold your sweet face in my hands and say 'you are enough, you are deserving, you are worthy, you are loved' over and over until you believe it? Because all of that is the truth, sweet friend.

This made me cry, even though it wasn't directed at me. You are both such incredible, loving human beings. I would give so much right now to know you IRL and be able to BE there for both of you.

So I have a few thoughts for you (surprise, surprise!)

First off... it is totally normal to feel grief and anger and frustration at what he did. It was not okay. Even though it is over and you are piecing, just because you didn't kick him to the curb doesn't mean his behavior was in any way acceptable. You know that. It is okay to be angry over him making those choices. Other people are in difficult places in their lives, too, and they don't have affairs. My IC is very set on me not "normalizing' this behavior. I think your anger at the time wasted is you demonstrating your boundaries and self-worth and knowing to your bones that he was wrong. That seems like a healthy feeling and anger to me.

Also, I definitely think that being the holidays and a year out from such a traumatic time definitely plays a role. I'm feeling it today, too. My H brought up the ornament boxes and my girls and I decorated the tree this morning while he went on a hike with our neighbor. He didn't bring up the box of his stuff, probably because he doesn't know which one it is, or remembers that it exists. So we decorated the tree and all his ornaments-- photos of him and the girls, ones with his name on them, ones with his undergrad and sports teams and all the ones his family bought over the years of all of us (they like doing those personalized ornaments)-- are missing. Will he notice? Should I say anything? Or not? I don't know what to do. Because thinking too much about it makes me go back to how I was feeling a year ago, that this was really our last Christmas as a family, and then letting the anger and grief that he was really prepared to leave us, that he made me have to imagine that future, wash over me.

So... I guess to say I think it is natural to have feelings right now and I'm going to guess you'll have them until you get past the anniversaries of the worst of it. It is all okay. Of course you feel like that. Anyone would. Feel it, let it wash over you, and then when you're ready, move on.

I'm going to push back a bit on him not ever being 100% in before, and you not being able to pick up on that... maybe. or maybe he was just not as good at verbalizing all of that to you. maybe it wasn't a half-a$$ed MR. Maybe he was just $hit at communicating, and yes a little lazy and stuck in his own world...who knows. But in the end... it doesn't matter. That is all in the past. M1.0 is long gone (you know this). So there is zero reason to beat yourself up over what you did or didn't accept way back then. You both did the best you could with the tools you had at the time. Now you know more, both of you. Forgive your past self and move forward with the knowledge you've gained from all this life experience.

I know how it feels to walk the path of what if AP resurfaces. All I can say is... it isn't a useful path. My question for you would be less about what his decisions are if that happens, and all about YOU... what would your choices be if that were to happen? Do you know? I'm thinking his bio daughter is the older one-- is that right? Anyway, I would love to know what actions you would take if that did happen. (For me-- call my mom and tell her, call my other best friend (the one who doesn't know) and tell her, and tell him to get out.) Honestly knowing exactly what I will do if that happens takes a lot of the fear and uncertainty out of it for me. It would svck of course, but I have my plans in place and am ready to execute if I need to. Maybe knowing exactly what you will do if that happens will help you not to go down that path anymore. So far, it has helped me (and FWIW, that path seems FAR more likely in my case than yours. My H isn't telling me how amazing and beautiful I am, that's for sure!)

So, some advice to take or leave?

-- can you plan something fun for the anniversaries of those hardest days? maybe see your friend who will totally understand?

-- is there some big step-up in GAL you can take right now? something you've never done before or haven't done forever? I'd push you to try a little next-level GAL. You deserve it.

-- I do think you need to talk to your H about some of this. maybe it doesn't even need to be about all of this. Maybe digging into M1.0 is something that is remote enough to be easy, but he could alleviate some of your fears about how he felt about you back then-- and how he wants to be different now, even if only in how he communicates it to you?

-- I can't answer when you can share your fears about AP resurfacing. It feels a little bit like hard core DBin means "never" but of course it needs to be dealt with eventually. Wonder if Steve85 or BluWave would have any thoughts here.

-- Can you plan out what you will do if things fall back apart? At least for me that back-up plan is necessary.

Finally... you got this, Wayfarer. You are the strongest person I know. It is hard, so hard, and you so deserve to put down your burden. I'm hoping you feel like you can, soon. xoxo M


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Checking in sweet Wayfarer... how was your day?

Did you get a chance to be outside?
Was it sunny, was it cold?
Did you find a moment of joy?
Were you able to talk to H about your sadness right now?

I am still walking with you...

May and WF
You know my handle name here and May you know my city.
If you put it all together with the world's largest search engine email it might produce results.
((WF)) ((May))

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Oh, wayfarer—I am thinking of you and sending lots of hugs. You will get through this wave. You won’t always feel like this. Hold on. ((WF))


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Thinking of you, WF. Let us know how you're doing when you can. xx M


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WF,

Everyone comes out on the other side of the sitch wondering how they let it get so bad for so long. That's water under the bridge homegirl.

When you start going down the dark road, turn the lights on and notice the signs telling you to turn around.

I remember the feeling that I wanted to die, that I was so hurt by my W leaving and her affair. Looking back at it, "That which hurts, instructs." You live and you learn. Joy wouldn't feel so good if we never experienced pain. You appear to have lots to be grateful for. Think about that. Find good things in your life and be happy with them. Make great things happen.

I hope this isn't patronizing or insensitive, but I think you have a lot of good going for you and want to see you happy. Merry Christmas.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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