Apologies for the lack of updates as a lot has happened over the last couple of months.
Around two months ago my wife started to show signs she was softening to me despite already having moved in with the AP and she sent me several texts over the course of a couple of weeks expressing love and remorse about how thing had worked out. I told her it was not too late and that if it was really something she wanted we could work on our marriage. It seems that real life was beginning to hit the relationship with the AP and there was several lies told by the AP that helped the relationship fizzle out and eventually things came to a head and my wife ended it.
So next the wife moved back in (yes all very quick) and she decided to take some time off work to decide what to do next as she worked with the AP. Initially she was hoping to be moved to another location but in the end it was not possible and she decided that the only option was to get a new job and that's what she has done, although the currently employment she is in she isn't to happy with but she is now moving to another job in the next two weeks and she seems optimistic about it.
The first few weeks she was back where pretty intense we spent quite a bit of time together and there was a lots of affection from both of us and lots of I love yous from both sides. We both felt that this could lead to a stronger marriage and a deeper love and appreciation for each other and we talked about what we both felt went wrong within our marriage to get to the state that it was at. She disclosed details about the relationship with the AP and the things that lead to it fully ending. She had a couple of texts and calls from the AP and she told him that it was over and she has since blocked the AP from her phone. For the first time she told me some things like she felt like she has let every one down and she feels ashamed of herself and feels "dirty". She said she felt even worse because I was being so nice to her and I told her that I had it in my heart to forgive her but it sounded like she needed to work on forgiving herself. We had a small wobble when she told me she felt she missed the AP but as I understand it that can be perfectly normal and I have tried to support her.
The last couple of weeks I do feel she has pulled back a bit in that she isn't initiating any affection and any "I love you" comes from me with a reply from her of "I love you too", the problem with this is I asked her if there where any "I love yous" in her relationship with the AP and she said yes he would say it and when I asked if she said it back she said yes but she didn't actually mean it so this is now stuck on my head. She will hug me if I hug her and if I attempt to kiss her she will kiss me back. I am just confused by her pulling back but that may be because I am perhaps showing her too much affection and perhaps love bombing her so I feel I need to perhaps pull back a bit myself. Then there are the doubts for example when she has her phone in her hands and it looks like she is texting and I sit wondering who is she texting, she is someone that can sit with her phone all night which does irritate me itself. I've brought the phone thing up and asked if there have been any texts to AP and she has said no. I know her phone passcode but I am very reluctant to go through her phone as I don't want to be like that but I do have a feeling she is guarding her phone but I am not sure if that's just my insecurities coming through. Of course having access to the phone would mean nothing as any texts etc would simply be deleted anyway so I need to trust what she is telling me is true. Right now she's at a stage where she just wants things to get back to normal again and for us to to talk any more about what's happened.
With the pull back on her initiating any affection which could be due to her restarting her anti-depressants which I have brought up with her, I told her it would be nice if she came to me now and again with a cuddle or I love you rather than me always initiating it. She does tell me she loves me before we go to sleep. Add the insecurities about the phone and I am really struggling just now. I have a lot of stuff going round my head and most of it is doubt and I am questioning things like does she really love me? is the things she is doing on purpose to push me away or does she really want to be with me? am I enough for her? Is she texting the AP again (which is what happened before when she came back the first time). I then question myself like am I putting too much pressure on her and expecting too much too soon, or am I just having doubts about us because its early days still. I feel right now I am hyper-vigilant about everything and some things are probably daft like I text her I love you and she send back an emoji heart and I am like why won't she just text love rather than an emoji OR if I tag her in a nice message on facebook she puts a like rather than a love (I know it sounds mental) it seems I am looking at everything and watching out for signs she does love me OR that she may be about to drop another bomb. I'm just feeling really down just now and I have an appointment with the Dr as I feel I am suffering with a bit of depression and need to deal with that.
Of course I can also see the steps she has taken to work on our marriage like quitting her job and of course ending the relationship with the AP and when we talk she uses "we" and will discuss a future etc.
Apologies for the lack of updates as a lot has happened over the last couple of months.
Around two months ago my wife started to show signs she was softening to me despite already having moved in with the AP and she sent me several texts over the course of a couple of weeks expressing love and remorse about how thing had worked out. I told her it was not too late and that if it was really something she wanted we could work on our marriage. It seems that real life was beginning to hit the relationship with the AP and there was several lies told by the AP that helped the relationship fizzle out and eventually things came to a head and my wife ended it.
Sooooooo. You were firmly entrenched as plan B. Let her know that at her first sign of her Plan A "fizzing out". More on this later.
Originally Posted by WMWB
So next the wife moved back in (yes all very quick) and she decided to take some time off work to decide what to do next as she worked with the AP. Initially she was hoping to be moved to another location but in the end it was not possible and she decided that the only option was to get a new job and that's what she has done, although the currently employment she is in she isn't to happy with but she is now moving to another job in the next two weeks and she seems optimistic about it.
You really should have consulted the board. WASs, especially those that were in affairs, should never be allowed to waltz right back into your life. The "getting another job" should have been a prerequisite to her moving back in. You got lucky that it worked out in your case. Many LBSs find themselves living with their WAS while their WAS has daily contact with OP.
Originally Posted by WMWB
The first few weeks she was back where pretty intense we spent quite a bit of time together and there was a lots of affection from both of us and lots of I love yous from both sides. We both felt that this could lead to a stronger marriage and a deeper love and appreciation for each other and we talked about what we both felt went wrong within our marriage to get to the state that it was at. She disclosed details about the relationship with the AP and the things that lead to it fully ending. She had a couple of texts and calls from the AP and she told him that it was over and she has since blocked the AP from her phone. For the first time she told me some things like she felt like she has let every one down and she feels ashamed of herself and feels "dirty". She said she felt even worse because I was being so nice to her and I told her that I had it in my heart to forgive her but it sounded like she needed to work on forgiving herself. We had a small wobble when she told me she felt she missed the AP but as I understand it that can be perfectly normal and I have tried to support her.
Spent a lot of time together? Sooooo, you never did GAL?
Lots of affection and ILYs. Did it seem forced? Like two kids playing house?
You tried supporting her in missing her AP? Wow........
Where is your conditions for moving forward? Complete transparency? Did she share her "No Contact" message she sent AP? IC for her? And you? MC to follow for you both?
Originally Posted by WMWB
The last couple of weeks I do feel she has pulled back a bit in that she isn't initiating any affection and any "I love you" comes from me with a reply from her of "I love you too", the problem with this is I asked her if there where any "I love yous" in her relationship with the AP and she said yes he would say it and when I asked if she said it back she said yes but she didn't actually mean it so this is now stuck on my head. She will hug me if I hug her and if I attempt to kiss her she will kiss me back. I am just confused by her pulling back but that may be because I am perhaps showing her too much affection and perhaps love bombing her so I feel I need to perhaps pull back a bit myself. Then there are the doubts for example when she has her phone in her hands and it looks like she is texting and I sit wondering who is she texting, she is someone that can sit with her phone all night which does irritate me itself. I've brought the phone thing up and asked if there have been any texts to AP and she has said no. I know her phone passcode but I am very reluctant to go through her phone as I don't want to be like that but I do have a feeling she is guarding her phone but I am not sure if that's just my insecurities coming through. Of course having access to the phone would mean nothing as any texts etc would simply be deleted anyway so I need to trust what she is telling me is true. Right now she's at a stage where she just wants things to get back to normal again and for us to to talk any more about what's happened.
Of course she has. She wanted to come back and you rolled out the red carpet. She got off scot-free. Further, you feel guilty for not trusting her!?!?! Are you flipping serious?
So....what happens when another Plan A comes along. You've already taught her that if she goes out and has an A you will be sitting their, wrapped in your own grief, waiting for her to come back with open arms and no work on her part. So you've set yourself up for BD#2 by not having requirements. Trust me, I've been there done that.
Stick up for yourself! Where is your backbone? Self-esteem? Do you think all of the above makes you look strong or weak?
Originally Posted by WMWB
With the pull back on her initiating any affection which could be due to her restarting her anti-depressants which I have brought up with her, I told her it would be nice if she came to me now and again with a cuddle or I love you rather than me always initiating it. She does tell me she loves me before we go to sleep. Add the insecurities about the phone and I am really struggling just now. I have a lot of stuff going round my head and most of it is doubt and I am questioning things like does she really love me? is the things she is doing on purpose to push me away or does she really want to be with me? am I enough for her? Is she texting the AP again (which is what happened before when she came back the first time). I then question myself like am I putting too much pressure on her and expecting too much too soon, or am I just having doubts about us because its early days still. I feel right now I am hyper-vigilant about everything and some things are probably daft like I text her I love you and she send back an emoji heart and I am like why won't she just text love rather than an emoji OR if I tag her in a nice message on facebook she puts a like rather than a love (I know it sounds mental) it seems I am looking at everything and watching out for signs she does love me OR that she may be about to drop another bomb. I'm just feeling really down just now and I have an appointment with the Dr as I feel I am suffering with a bit of depression and need to deal with that.
Making excuses for her. "Maybe it is her ADs." No it is her now feeling that she got away with an A, and doesn't even have to pretend anymore.
"I told her it would be nice if she came to me now and again with a cuddle or I love you rather than me always initiating it."
Do you feel this was a strong move or a weak move?
The reason you are struggling is because you did not require her to prove she wanted to come back. Just a "can I come back?" and the response of "Of course!! Come back right now!" We tell LBSs all the time to not let their WAS come back too easily. Now you are right back where you were before she left. She is doing what she wants, the romantic nature of coming back is over, and now you have the same faulty marriage with the same faulty spouse you had before. There is no MR 2.0 here, there is MR 1.0 all over again.
Originally Posted by WMWB
Of course I can also see the steps she has taken to work on our marriage like quitting her job and of course ending the relationship with the AP and when we talk she uses "we" and will discuss a future etc.
Oh, so she lets a few bread crumbs fall from her table, and you get to eat them right off of the floor............
WMWB, you have to man up here. You have work to do that you have put off. You really need to look at what you want your MR to be, and show her that you will not settle for less.
Is there any open mouth kissing? Sex? Anything but the small crumbs of affection she lets you have? IF not, you are on thin ice again already. Sandi can help you, but you have to be willing to take difficult action. Otherwise you are at her mercy.....and she is a ticking timebomb.
Last edited by Steve85; 10/06/2001:42 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
We do share a cuddle and open mouth kissing daily usually initiated by me and we have had sex several times since she came back (shes been back around a month and a half).
This does feels different from the last time she came back where she was still working with the AP. Also just to clarify she was leaving the job as I told her I could not have her working with the AP anymore and so she requested a move to another location but the workplace couldn't accomedate this so she quit.
When I said I support her greiving for the AP I am not talking about her crying in my arms for him, she told me how she felt and I told her that it was to be expected regardless of how it ended and I understood that she had to go through a process.
I think looking at it from my point of view I have been too full on with her and have love bombed her which is why she may have pulled back somewhat. Its likley too much too soon and because I am affectionate by nature I am expecting her to be the same which of course is leading the doubts when she is not and she has explicitly told me today that its too much too soon so I am going pull back somewhat and stop trying so hard.
Nothing seemed forced when she came back and she would say ILY a few times including locking eyes with me and tell me during sex.
We do share a cuddle and open mouth kissing daily usually initiated by me and we have had sex several times since she came back (shes been back around a month and a half).
This does feels different from the last time she came back where she was still working with the AP. Also just to clarify she was leaving the job as I told her I could not have her working with the AP anymore and so she requested a move to another location but the workplace couldn't accomedate this so she quit.
When I said I support her greiving for the AP I am not talking about her crying in my arms for him, she told me how she felt and I told her that it was to be expected regardless of how it ended and I understood that she had to go through a process.
I think looking at it from my point of view I have been too full on with her and have love bombed her which is why she may have pulled back somewhat. Its likley too much too soon and because I am affectionate by nature I am expecting her to be the same which of course is leading the doubts when she is not and she has explicitly told me today that its too much too soon so I am going pull back somewhat and stop trying so hard.
Nothing seemed forced when she came back and she would say ILY a few times including locking eyes with me and tell me during sex.
So how do you square the above with what you wrote before:
Originally Posted by WMWB
With the pull back on her initiating any affection which could be due to her restarting her anti-depressants which I have brought up with her, I told her it would be nice if she came to me now and again with a cuddle or I love you rather than me always initiating it. She does tell me she loves me before we go to sleep. Add the insecurities about the phone and I am really struggling just now. I have a lot of stuff going round my head and most of it is doubt and I am questioning things like does she really love me? is the things she is doing on purpose to push me away or does she really want to be with me? am I enough for her? Is she texting the AP again (which is what happened before when she came back the first time). I then question myself like am I putting too much pressure on her and expecting too much too soon, or am I just having doubts about us because its early days still. I feel right now I am hyper-vigilant about everything and some things are probably daft like I text her I love you and she send back an emoji heart and I am like why won't she just text love rather than an emoji OR if I tag her in a nice message on facebook she puts a like rather than a love (I know it sounds mental) it seems I am looking at everything and watching out for signs she does love me OR that she may be about to drop another bomb. I'm just feeling really down just now and I have an appointment with the Dr as I feel I am suffering with a bit of depression and need to deal with that.
Those two quotes seem like polar opposites. So which is it? She's been great and doing everything she should? Or you feel she is pulling back, and should be more affectionate?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I feel she has pulled back slightly from how she was initially in the first couple of weeks after she came back because she would initiate affection as in coming in for a cuddle, asking if I was okay or come over to give me a kiss or saying ILY.
Right now I get an ILY before we go to sleep but anything else in relation to any affection or kissing or sex or ILY's is currently only being initiated by me.
Now that could be down to the fact that I have been full on and she is feeling smothered or its too much which is what she has told me tonight so I am going to pull back a bit myself.
Hopefully, sandi will weigh in here. But WWs are fickle creatures. You really haven't DB'd, you've been too willing to take her back without her doing enough to earn her way back. And now, as I said, you are right back to where you were before BD.
Nothing worthwhile is easy. Anything you get easily is not valued. She doesn't value you because she got you back without really having to do anything.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Around two months ago my wife started to show signs she was softening to me despite already having moved in with the AP and she sent me several texts over the course of a couple of weeks expressing love and remorse about how thing had worked out.
Those words you chose to describe your WW was showing signs of "softening" to you, indicates pressure was being applied to her from you. Pressure, as in pursuit.
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I told her it was not too late and that if it was really something she wanted we could work on our marriage. It seems that real life was beginning to hit the relationship with the AP and there was several lies told by the AP that helped the relationship fizzle out and eventually things came to a head and my wife ended it.
It's common for a WW to turn to her LBH to rescue her, when things get too tough or her fantasy with OM doesn't work out like she thought it would. She knew what to say, in order to go back home. Maybe she meant it at the time, IDK. But at some point, it started becoming a bit too much. You are spending a lot of time with her. You are saying ILY, and of course, she feels pressured to say it back. You talk a lot about affection. My guess is that she feels like you are smothering her.
I can't express enough how important it is for the wayward W to work her way back. That's why the LBH should require a few things, before he agrees to reconciliation. You see, she just left the OM's bed to go back to the marital home. And like I said, maybe she meant every word she told you. But here is where I think you may have messed up. You seem to have thought her feelings were like a switch, and maybe she was the one to initiate sex after she returned home. Women know that men see this as sealing the deal, so they try to go along with it. Some WW's initiate sex with their LBH, in order to secure their place back in the home, so to speak. But most women need a little time to adjust to being back in the marriage again, b/c like it or not, she has a lot of inner work ahead of her. She has to process everything she's been through, and everything she put her LBH through. As much as she might want to automatically switch back to her old self, her insides are still a mess. She has caused damage to herself, her H, and family. I can tell you from experience, it is a terrible thing to deal with, but it's part of the process.
Unless I misunderstood in previous posts, it sounded as if you've had the idea that a wayward would just snap out of the fog and life would pick up where she left it. It's much more complicated, b/c women are complicated! She's a very emotional being, and those emotions have been out of control for quite a while now. Even if she meant all that was said, she needs time to adjust, process, and heal. She may not like the OM anymore, but her problem biggest problem at the moment, is the addiction. I have to give her credit for realizing she couldn't work with him, and if it really was her idea of finding another job......then I think it's promising that she is putting forth some difficult steps. Making the decision to do the right thing, in spite of the feelings, is a good beginning. It's hard! It's hard for both of you. Just remember, most of your pain came when you discovered her A. Just b/c she's back home, doesn't mean you've healed. Maybe you aren't hurting as much, but the relationship still needs healing. You may be surprised some day when you feel anger, resentment, etc., for everything she put you through. Some LBH's are so focused on just getting the WW back, that they don't deal with feelings at the time, and it causes a delayed reaction. So anyway, if she's sincere about the remorse, then she's going to suffer. I'm just saying that the LBH and the WW don't suffer the same way or at the same time, and both of them have to heal from the whole cheating ordeal. Maybe that is difficult for some people to hear........that the wayward W has to heal, but if she is being authentic.......then she will need to heal. If she is just pretending, or using you, then I think you'll know fairly soon. I think the couple should have a professional guiding them, b/c it is extremely difficult trying to piece the M back together, without help from someone experienced in healing after an affair.
This period where she's going through withdrawals, is critical. Having your support will help. Support comes in different ways, and most WW's I've read about, doesn't like talking about the affair/OM. Frankly, I feel those type of discussions should be supervised by a therapist......but that's JMHO. If she doesn't seem to be in the mood for intimacy, then don't stress out about it. I do recommend that you show nonintimate touches. Try to go with the flow, and don't feel you need to question her over every little thing if she's not responding like you think she should. Remember she has to process a lot of stuff.
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Add the insecurities about the phone and I am really struggling just now. I have a lot of stuff going round my head and most of it is doubt and I am questioning things like does she really love me? is the things she is doing on purpose to push me away or does she really want to be with me? am I enough for her?
I'm sure you struggle with many thoughts. This is not easy for either of you. I want you to understand I'm trying to explain how it is for the WW returning to LBH. I am not excusing anything she did, nor trying to get sympathy for a WW. I just want you to know that she is going through insecurities, too. Her insecurities lie in her "feelings". It's all about her feelings! She will question herself and why can't she feel and act the way you need her to do right now.....or even like she wants. She thinks something must be wrong if she isn't feeling like she should. Listen, a woman doesn't fall out of love with a man, then instantly fall in love with a new man, then fall out of love with him, and back in love with the first one again. I know some people may be thinking, "But this isn't just any man, it's her H". Nobody knows it any better than she does. That's why she feels pressure from herself, b/c she believes she should feel "in-love" with her H, now that they have reconciled. She's not a light switch! This takes a toll on everyone involved, including her.
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I feel right now I am hyper-vigilant about everything and some things are probably daft like I text her I love you and she send back an emoji heart and I am like why won't she just text love rather than an emoji OR if I tag her in a nice message on facebook she puts a like rather than a love (I know it sounds mental)
No, it doesn't sound mental. Do you think this is a picnic for her? Both of you are very insecure right now. Every time you send her an ILY message, you are putting her in a pressure cooker. If your W has genuine, then please understand that she is doing the best she can, at the moment. If she sees you like a little boy pulling at his mama's skirt, wanting her to coddle him...........guess what that will do? I'm not trying to make you feel worse, but I will talk to you straight. You have experienced a lot, but if you want this relationship to last, you must stop showing her how desperate and insecure you are. She's got all she can handle right now. Yes, you must stop all this needy stuff and back off the ILY texting. Don't go totally cold on her. Stay balanced.
This is why I think couples should find a qualified therapist to guide them through this passage. I wanted to say so much more, but I've already written a book, so maybe next time. If my rambling has confused you, please ask questions and I'll try to answer in a better way.
Don't make any drastic moves before talking to the board. Things can get a lot better, once she doesn't feel pressure from you, and once she gets through the withdrawals. If you don't understand what it's like to go through withdrawals from an addiction, then you won't understand what she's feeling right now.
One more thing...........please don't go missing in action again. (((hugs)))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks sandi2 that was very insightful. I am going to pull back on the ILY and the affection and as you suggested try and go with the flow and find the right balance. I am going to consciously try and stop analysing everything she does as that's only driving my insecurities further. We had a quick conversion last night and I asked her if she felt smothered and she said yes so I told her that I would calm it down.
I guess the hardest part right now is believing her commitment is genuine but I guess that comes hand in hand with the deception that comes with infidelity and the fact she choose to go as far as moving in with the OM. Reading about what my wife may be going through now helps me having an understanding about what may be going on with her. It was my wife that suggested we try again as I had started to accept it was over between us but she started texting me and was talking about how she felt and was saying she'd made a massive mistake and was saying ILY both before and after she came back, she reassured me by saying things like if she wasn't sure about trying again she would have just gone back to our daughters or her parents. Of course now I think with my over compensating with affection and ILY and her feeling the withdrawals you have mentioned above and the self doubt and insecurity I can see why she may have backed off somewhat because she may not have expected these to kick in after feeling so optimistic about coming back.
My wife talks about our future together and in conversation she refers to "us" again and of course she has now changed jobs. I know we are VERY early on in this process but I have just have been taken by surprise by the conflicting feelings I have such as the doubts I now have about our M and her motivation and the feelings of I deserve better than this, and sometimes the anger I feel about what's happened and how this has changed me to my core, and then there is the guilt I feel for the contributions I made for my marriage to get into this state in the first place but that helps me understand that this is not all on my wife and its not just her that has to implement changes.
I do love my wife and I want to give us the best possible chance to be successful so I will stick around the board and get advice where I can.
Firstly I need to stop expecting so much from my wife during these early days, I need to stop looking for validation from her and stop the needy behaviours, I need to go with the flow more and find a right balance between showing her love and getting on with my own things.
Last night as the phone thing had been bugging me so much I asked my wife straight out if there had been any contact been her and the OM and she said no and handed me her phone to have a look. I told her I was concerned that she had pulled back a little and that was the reason I was asking and I said to her that it would take time for me to fully trust again.
I think Sandi2 has hit the nail on the head about how my wife is feeling right now and she is working through her conflicting feelings and the doubts she has about why she isn't feeling the way she wants to feel about me. She said that initially when she came back her feelings where really intense but have since calmed down a little and she has said her feelings right now are all over the place. She has been honest and said that she doesn't want to be with OM and wants to be with me but she did have feelings for OM and now that's over she is going through the motions of that ending. She has said that she does love me she knows that and the time she came back before she just was not ready as she still had a lot of anger towards me and the OM was still convincing her to be with him as they where still working together.
I assured her that it was normal how she was feeling right now and yes we both have our doubts and insecurities but we need to try and stop putting so much pressure on ourselves. She said she just doesn't feel there yet but is optimistic we can get through this together and she believes she will get there and she just needs time and that she is committed to the process. My wife did say it hadn't helped that i've smothered her and she just wants some normality between us (this is where I need to find the right balance) and for me to give her a little space.
