Completely lost, where am I?

[TheTexan]

It's been a couple of days and I owe you guys some updates.

Sunday

Nothing of any importance happened on Sunday. W worked all day. I did my daily work out and went shopping for supplies to work on the military footlocker I dug out of the garage the day prior. I also spent some time reading and had a long talk with step-D about some things she is going through.

W got off work, picked me up and we went out for some Mexican food. We had an OK time I guess. Mostly just some basic conversation about how her day went. She did mention that she wanted to try and meet with OM in a public place sometime this week to try and get some closure. I said, "I think that is a bad idea. It is only going to confuse the situation, but whatever." and then "I will also tell you that men in his position don't usually need any closure so it may not happen." That part of the convo was dropped and we went back to the useless banter as if it never happened.

We went home and she went to bed, I stay up another hour or two.

Monday

I spent most of the day working on work, and the rest of the time on sanding and priming the inside of the footlocker.
It turns out my prediction about OM not needing closure was correct. I am not sure what he texted her or when, but at some point I realized the W was completely bent. I just left her alone. For dinner I made some baked chicken, with garlic butter pasta and sweet corn. Just before dinner was ready the W told me she was super angry at the OM and wanted to know if we could go out after dinner to take her mind off of things. While I have zero sympathy for what she is going through, I had nothing else to do so I agreed. Since there really isn't much open around here to go do, we ended up at a pool hall (different than I went to on Friday). We had an pretty decent time, she had like 4 or 5 drinks and I had 2 beers, and we mainly just talked about the game.

OTW home, the W decided to open up a bit more and told me the OM had basically just thrown her away and didn't even want to talk to her or help her get any closure. I told her "This is kind of a sorry, not sorry situation. I hate to see you hurting, but it's hard to have much sympathy in this case." She said she understood my position.

We got home and the W asked me to read to her until she fell asleep and I did. When she started the tell tale heavy breathing and light snoring, I quit reading. As I tried to move she woke back up and asked me if I would just hold her. I did and eventually we were both asleep. While it was nice and hasn't happened in 15 years, I don't put any faith at all in this behavior and I am about to explain why.

My current thought processes

Last night I had a strange light bulb moment. Back when my wife was busy confessing what she had done with OM, one of those things was "making out". Last night is dawned on me that she hasn't done that with me in at least 15 years and we have only been married for 17 years and together 18.5. This means that my W probably hasn't been IN love with me and attracted to me for basically my WHOLE marriage. I am now starting to believe that the whole marriage was a lie to help maintain her comfort and lifestyle and that maybe she was more in love with the IDEA of being married and in love than she ever was with me. If she has the capacity to fake a marriage for 15+ years, how do I ever trust that what we end up with after DB'ing is actually real and not just another deep fake? I know Steve85 says look for consistency in behavior, but she was mostly consistent for 15 years that now seems fake.

So right now I am really struggling with this and if I am right, then do I even want to try to fix this? The DB'ing book says to think back to a time when things were right and try to do the same behaviors. I am no longer sure there was ever a point where this wasn't broken that we can even try to get back to. If there is it's so far back, I'll never remember it. I have downloaded the paperwork required to file for Divorce. I haven't started filling it out yet though. When we are doing things like reading to each other and holding each other as we have done a few times in the last weeks. It makes me want to stay albeit temporarily. At nearly all other times, I start thinking I would be better off finding someone that actually cares and isn't going to fake an entire marriage for convenience and comfort.

I feel like I am in the Matrix and being offered 2 pills. I can take the blue pill and I'll wake up in my bed, forgetting this ever happened, and can live the rest of my life in blissful ignorance that my whole marriage is nothing more than an elaborate construct designed to keep me just content enough to stick around but never never enough for true happiness or any feelings of being loved.

OR I can take the red pill, and I stay awake, file for divorce, and reenter the real world, cold and alone, and back at square one in my love life at age 46 with all new dating conventions and new tech, and all the wild weird crap that goes along with trying to find a new love interest and maybe even a new soulmate in the current times and I will get to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

[Traveler]

I feel like I am in the Matrix and being offered 2 pills. I can take the blue pill and I'll wake up in my bed, forgetting this ever happened, and can live the rest of my life in blissful ignorance that my whole marriage is nothing more than an elaborate construct designed to keep me just content enough to stick around but never never enough for true happiness or any feelings of being loved.

OR I can take the red pill, and I stay awake, file for divorce, and reenter the real world, cold and alone, and back at square one in my love life at age 46 with all new dating conventions and new tech, and all the wild weird crap that goes along with trying to find a new love interest and maybe even a new soulmate in the current times and I will get to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

Hi Texan,

I am skeptical she stopped at making out. Cheaters don't value honesty.

I would point out that taking the RED PILL or the BLUE PILL are not the only choices. There are also many PURPLE PILLS of varying shades--where you don't pretend this didn't happen, and you work together to transform your marriage into something different, assuming you're both willing.

[ovrrnbw]

I could please bring her some clothes that she forgot so she could get dry to eat dinner and asked if I wanted to eat with them. I took her the clothes and went ahead and hung around long enough to scarf a bit of food, then off I went.

Helllllll naw! You white knighted the hell out of her. You aren't her man anymore in her eyes. You had plans. I'd stop answering the phone so much too, especially when you're busy.

Now, our whole family has an app on our phones where we can see where everyone in our circle is, and I guess she had looked at it.

Get rid of it now. Don't have it on again. Don't let the WW know where you are. It's none of her business IMO as she is holding up to your standards of marriage. You can't be mysterious while she is tracking you 24/7.

W worked from 7am - 7pm. I spent the day working in the garage and digging out an old military footlocker that I want to make something out of. W got home around 7:30, we (me, W, step-D + BF) ate dinner. The W had 2 "beers" with and just after dinner then went to bed.

I would recommend leaving for some GAL around 7 PM then and leave her to her lonesome. Screw being around when she is there. I used to go lay under a tree and read for hours during the height of sitch. It's 100 times better than being in the house when she is there.

I just said "that's nice" and went back to talking with step-D. Later as the W was going to bed, she told me that the OW2 had gotten a new job and was doing good. Again, I simply replied "that's nice" and that was the end of our convo for the day. She went to bed.[quote] Good job Tex.

[quote]Just before dinner was ready the W told me she was super angry at the OM and wanted to know if we could go out after dinner to take her mind off of things.

Man, that sounds rough. You sound like the gay friend. She's telling you about some other dude she has romantic interest in and she wants to use you as a relief valve for that? What in the name of Jesus is going on here? You had made a whole meal and you put that on hold for this? Man oh man...

One slight correction, I didn't say an open marriage WOULD be OK as a last resort, I said it could only be considered as a last resort.

If you said this to her, she used it to justify her behavior and now you are living in the open marriage. Do you really mean this? If so, just get used to your W having OM around and move forward.

As far as the make out situation it sounds like you are pretty worked up right now. It doesn't have to be one or the other of those things. Just calm down for now and you will gain clarity.

But seriously dude, you have to figure out if you're good with the open marriage thing. If you aren't, then we need to figure out how you are going to stop giving her only the parts that she wants while you don't get your needs met. She says she only made out with OM but we don't know do we?

[neffer]

Hey Texan

Hapiness comes from inside. Keep working on yourself. Live your present, stand for your future.

Past is in the past. Don´t try to read it from where you are now.

Keep DB!

Time and patience.

[SteveLW]

It's been a couple of days and I owe you guys some updates.

Sunday

Nothing of any importance happened on Sunday. W worked all day. I did my daily work out and went shopping for supplies to work on the military footlocker I dug out of the garage the day prior. I also spent some time reading and had a long talk with step-D about some things she is going through.

W got off work, picked me up and we went out for some Mexican food. We had an OK time I guess. Mostly just some basic conversation about how her day went. She did mention that she wanted to try and meet with OM in a public place sometime this week to try and get some closure. I said, "I think that is a bad idea. It is only going to confuse the situation, but whatever." and then "I will also tell you that men in his position don't usually need any closure so it may not happen." That part of the convo was dropped and we went back to the useless banter as if it never happened.

We went home and she went to bed, I stay up another hour or two.

Monday

I spent most of the day working on work, and the rest of the time on sanding and priming the inside of the footlocker.
It turns out my prediction about OM not needing closure was correct. I am not sure what he texted her or when, but at some point I realized the W was completely bent. I just left her alone. For dinner I made some baked chicken, with garlic butter pasta and sweet corn. Just before dinner was ready the W told me she was super angry at the OM and wanted to know if we could go out after dinner to take her mind off of things. While I have zero sympathy for what she is going through, I had nothing else to do so I agreed. Since there really isn't much open around here to go do, we ended up at a pool hall (different than I went to on Friday). We had an pretty decent time, she had like 4 or 5 drinks and I had 2 beers, and we mainly just talked about the game.

OTW home, the W decided to open up a bit more and told me the OM had basically just thrown her away and didn't even want to talk to her or help her get any closure. I told her "This is kind of a sorry, not sorry situation. I hate to see you hurting, but it's hard to have much sympathy in this case." She said she understood my position.

We got home and the W asked me to read to her until she fell asleep and I did. When she started the tell tale heavy breathing and light snoring, I quit reading. As I tried to move she woke back up and asked me if I would just hold her. I did and eventually we were both asleep. While it was nice and hasn't happened in 15 years, I don't put any faith at all in this behavior and I am about to explain why.

My current thought processes

Last night I had a strange light bulb moment. Back when my wife was busy confessing what she had done with OM, one of those things was "making out". Last night is dawned on me that she hasn't done that with me in at least 15 years and we have only been married for 17 years and together 18.5. This means that my W probably hasn't been IN love with me and attracted to me for basically my WHOLE marriage. I am now starting to believe that the whole marriage was a lie to help maintain her comfort and lifestyle and that maybe she was more in love with the IDEA of being married and in love than she ever was with me. If she has the capacity to fake a marriage for 15+ years, how do I ever trust that what we end up with after DB'ing is actually real and not just another deep fake? I know Steve85 says look for consistency in behavior, but she was mostly consistent for 15 years that now seems fake.

So right now I am really struggling with this and if I am right, then do I even want to try to fix this? The DB'ing book says to think back to a time when things were right and try to do the same behaviors. I am no longer sure there was ever a point where this wasn't broken that we can even try to get back to. If there is it's so far back, I'll never remember it. I have downloaded the paperwork required to file for Divorce. I haven't started filling it out yet though. When we are doing things like reading to each other and holding each other as we have done a few times in the last weeks. It makes me want to stay albeit temporarily. At nearly all other times, I start thinking I would be better off finding someone that actually cares and isn't going to fake an entire marriage for convenience and comfort.

I feel like I am in the Matrix and being offered 2 pills. I can take the blue pill and I'll wake up in my bed, forgetting this ever happened, and can live the rest of my life in blissful ignorance that my whole marriage is nothing more than an elaborate construct designed to keep me just content enough to stick around but never never enough for true happiness or any feelings of being loved.

OR I can take the red pill, and I stay awake, file for divorce, and reenter the real world, cold and alone, and back at square one in my love life at age 46 with all new dating conventions and new tech, and all the wild weird crap that goes along with trying to find a new love interest and maybe even a new soulmate in the current times and I will get to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

So you are basing this red pill blue pill theory on the fact that she made out with OM but hasn't made out with you in 15 years?

Wow. That's thin.

If you took a poll of married couples married for 15+ years. What percentage of them would say they made-out in the last 15 years? My guess? The % of couples that said they had not made out in 15+ years would be in the high 90s. That means a lot of married couples are living a lie based on the "make out" litmus test.

You are over-analyzing things. And I also think you are a bit naive about how R work. Making out is a early R phase thing. Making out is something you do with a person you are all hot for but that you are not having sex with yet. It is a build-up. And sometimes it is a tool for foreplay. So the lower % of couples that would answer yes to that, on cross-examination would probably admit that their make-out sessions led to sex.

What you are doing is you are trying to reason in your mind how your W could have become this WW, cheating W. And the answer is probably a lot more simple than your entire marriage being a sham. These things are complex. LH likes to point out how unhappy 40-49 year-old adults are. And it makes sense too. Most people get married in their early to mid 20s. Have a couple of kids by time they are 30. By time they are 45 their kids are grown, moving out of the house, and the identity people knew leading up to that point is no longer the same. Am I a parent? A spouse? Am I ready for an empty nest? Is the person I've spent the last 20 years with still the person I fell in love with and married? What am I doing with the rest of my life? I am probably half way through my life, what am I going to do with the rest of it?

So your W's issues that have led you here may or may not have anything to do wtih you! You could have been a stepford husband, perfect in every way, and she may still have decided to step out on the marriage.

What I can tell you, is that the people that look back instead of forward are the ones that remain stuck where they are the longest. The Texan, my concern isn't that you will take the blue pill. Or the red pill. My concern is that you will sit looking at both of those pills trying to decide which one to take for the foreseeable future.

[TheTexan]

I would point out that taking the RED PILL or the BLUE PILL are not the only choices. There are also many PURPLE PILLS of varying shades--where you don't pretend this didn't happen, and you work together to transform your marriage into something different, assuming you're both willing.

I think you may be right. Our only option is to try and build something completely new with little to no basis in the broken past. The question is can we, and do we really want to.

Again though, I am torn. Part of me wants to try to build something with this woman that I love and have spent 18.5 years with. Then I read threads here like THIS and THIS where people have tried to rebuild and after 4 or even 9 years still ended in the big D. I have already spent/wasted (depending on viewpoint) 18.5 years of my life on this marriage. I don't want to keep rearranging chairs on a ship that's going down. I know it is going to take time before I can even know if it's possible to build something new with this person. I am not planning on making a decision today or even soon. I am just posting where my head is at currently.

Helllllll naw! You white knighted the hell out of her. You aren't her man anymore in her eyes. You had plans. I'd stop answering the phone so much too, especially when you're busy.

You are of course right, but I did have an ulterior motive. I wanted her to see me dressed up more than I had in years, and wearing the cologne that she bought me to go out without her. Weakness? Yeah. D**k move? Yeah. It did seem to make her a bit jealous which wouldn't have happened if I hadn't gone over there. Which was what I wanted in the first place.

I would recommend leaving for some GAL around 7 PM then and leave her to her lonesome. Screw being around when she is there. I used to go lay under a tree and read for hours during the height of sitch. It's 100 times better than being in the house when she is there.

That is awesome. I never thought about just wasting time doing nothing like that.

Man, that sounds rough. You sound like the gay friend. She's telling you about some other dude she has romantic interest in and she wants to use you as a relief valve for that? What in the name of Jesus is going on here? You had made a whole meal and you put that on hold for this? Man oh man...

Yeah it was pretty bad, but we did eat the meal before going out. Not that it makes this any better. I do know that prior to all of this happening, I would have resisted going out. One of my W's biggest complaints about me was that it took a crane, or setting the house on fire to get me to go anywhere. Which is why I have been trying to be more willing to go places with her when she asks, regardless of the reason. Seriously, I have been working from home for years, and leave the house so rarely that I use maybe 1 tank of gas in my car in 4 months. Sad, I know.

If you said this to her, she used it to justify her behavior and now you are living in the open marriage. Do you really mean this? If so, just get used to your W having OM around and move forward.

As far as the make out situation it sounds like you are pretty worked up right now. It doesn't have to be one or the other of those things. Just calm down for now and you will gain clarity.

But seriously dude, you have to figure out if you're good with the open marriage thing.

No I am absolutely not OK with an open marriage. I had said that quote in the initial BD convo but have corrected that within a day or two after that happened. I told her that I am a good man and good husband and I deserve someone that really loves me and wants to be with me and only me, regardless if that turned out to be her or not.

As mentioned W and OM are completely done at this point, the OM's W has intervened and the OM has now said and done things to my W to ensure it's over. She seems to practically hate him at this point. I am not saying they can't/won't reconcile in the future, but as of right now, it's done.

As far as two options, that may be true but unless I am missing something, there are only two possible outcomes. Outcome 1 we stay together and outcome 2 is we get a divorce. There may be an infinite number of options and paths to take, but they all lead to one of those two places. My current issue is that I have to determine which outcome I actually prefer. I have to decide which one is right for me and gives me the best chance at a happy life that I deserve.

If you aren't, then we need to figure out how you are going to stop giving her only the parts that she wants while you don't get your needs met.

Yes please. With the OM (at least currently) out of the picture. I really have to find the right way to balance distancing and detachment (GALing) with still being there for her as the lighthouse.

[TheTexan]

So you are basing this red pill blue pill theory on the fact that she made out with OM but hasn't made out with you in 15 years?

Wow. That's thin.

If you took a poll of married couples married for 15+ years. What percentage of them would say they made-out in the last 15 years? My guess? The % of couples that said they had not made out in 15+ years would be in the high 90s. That means a lot of married couples are living a lie based on the "make out" litmus test.

You are over-analyzing things. And I also think you are a bit naive about how R work. Making out is a early R phase thing. Making out is something you do with a person you are all hot for but that you are not having sex with yet. It is a build-up. And sometimes it is a tool for foreplay. So the lower % of couples that would answer yes to that, on cross-examination would probably admit that their make-out sessions led to sex.

Maybe. How many married couples don't even kiss DURING sex though? I am not joking or exaggerating. We have not kissed DURING sex in 15 years. This is not because I don't want to or haven't tried to. She actively blocks it. She gives me a quick kiss goodnight or when she is leaving to go somewhere, that is the complete extent of the affection she has shown in 15 years. Again I agree affection is going to drop off after 15 years, but it dropped off for us after maybe 2 years and has been at rock bottom for the last 15 years. How many couples married for only 2 years are in that boat?

Still think it's thin?

What you are doing is you are trying to reason in your mind how your W could have become this WW, cheating W. And the answer is probably a lot more simple than your entire marriage being a sham. These things are complex. LH likes to point out how unhappy 40-49 year-old adults are. And it makes sense too. Most people get married in their early to mid 20s. Have a couple of kids by time they are 30. By time they are 45 their kids are grown, moving out of the house, and the identity people knew leading up to that point is no longer the same. Am I a parent? A spouse? Am I ready for an empty nest? Is the person I've spent the last 20 years with still the person I fell in love with and married? What am I doing with the rest of my life? I am probably half way through my life, what am I going to do with the rest of it?

So your W's issues that have led you here may or may not have anything to do wtih you! You could have been a stepford husband, perfect in every way, and she may still have decided to step out on the marriage.

You are of course correct. It could also be her hormones changing, a MLC, or combination of both or a combo of everything you mentioned as well. She has told the MC that even she has no idea why.

What I can tell you, is that the people that look back instead of forward are the ones that remain stuck where they are the longest. The Texan, my concern isn't that you will take the blue pill. Or the red pill. My concern is that you will sit looking at both of those pills trying to decide which one to take for the foreseeable future.

I understand and agree that we should be focusing on the future and moving forward. Again, I am just posting my thoughts. I do not plan on making any final decisions until at least the birth of my granddaughter (expected September 10th). Regardless of anything else that may be going on, I would like my family to be together for that. Who knows, since us not having a child was big part of what drove us apart, maybe loving this new grand child will bring us back together. I'm not going to count on it or expect it, but we will see what impact this has on us. I will say this though, every time my W mentions the future as it relates to the baby, she and I are always in what she says together. She has chosen "Loli" for her grandma name and she has taken to calling me "Popi". She is always saying things like "Loli and Popi are going to X." or "At Loli and Popi's house, we will always have Y." It's always us together, never just "Loli". Not sure if that means anything or not. At the very least (at least subconsciously) she still sees me in her future.

As an aside, we may need to find a new MC since she seems to be focusing more on the past instead of the future and finding solutions or a path forward. The odd thing is the MC was the one that referred me to this site, and twice claimed to be actual friends with MWD and said that she used the same principles when I asked last week. Yet after 2 sessions not one goal has been set, and the only tasks to work on we were given was for me to come here and post and my wife to make a journal and track her steps of grief. We have our third appointment on Friday. It may be our last with this MC.

[SteveLW]

Yes still thin. My wife started avoiding kissing during sex a few years into our marriage. At the 10 year mark the average was sex once every 3 months. For the entire 10 years. 15 years in it was closer to 4 months. By time we hit our sitch it was once or twice a year. After I realized she was so sex starved during our sitch, I hinted I would be open to sex. She talked to me one night about how she wanted sex, but specifically requested no kissing.

That persisted into our Ring and piecing. It has only been the last few months that during sex she kisses now. But even then it is the exception, not the rule.

It concerned me about the kissing. I started asking people and was shocked to find that not kissing during sex is a fairly common thing for married couples. I was shocked.

[TheTexan]

Yes still thin. My wife started avoiding kissing during sex a few years into our marriage. At the 10 year mark the average was sex once every 3 months. For the entire 10 years. 15 years in it was closer to 4 months. By time we hit our sitch it was once or twice a year. After I realized she was so sex starved during our sitch, I hinted I would be open to sex. She talked to me one night about how she wanted sex, but specifically requested no kissing.

That persisted into our Ring and piecing. It has only been the last few months that during sex she kisses now. But even then it is the exception, not the rule.

It concerned me about the kissing. I started asking people and was shocked to find that not kissing during sex is a fairly common thing for married couples. I was shocked.

Yeah, I have to say this must be one well kept secret. It is good to know I am not in this boat alone. I just thought that it was kind of a natural part of it. I guess not. As always your advice and feedback are greatly appreciated.

[SteveLW]

Yes still thin. My wife started avoiding kissing during sex a few years into our marriage. At the 10 year mark the average was sex once every 3 months. For the entire 10 years. 15 years in it was closer to 4 months. By time we hit our sitch it was once or twice a year. After I realized she was so sex starved during our sitch, I hinted I would be open to sex. She talked to me one night about how she wanted sex, but specifically requested no kissing.

That persisted into our Ring and piecing. It has only been the last few months that during sex she kisses now. But even then it is the exception, not the rule.

It concerned me about the kissing. I started asking people and was shocked to find that not kissing during sex is a fairly common thing for married couples. I was shocked.

Yeah, I have to say this must be one well kept secret. It is good to know I am not in this boat alone. I just thought that it was kind of a natural part of it. I guess not. As always your advice and feedback are greatly appreciated.

The Texan, in my sitch I found a book. I can't give you the name because it isn't written by MWD. But Google Women's Infidelity. The author shares a first name with MWD. I found the book fascinating. It really gets into the psyche of women that cheat after years of marriage. Why they do, the biological impulses many women go through. The other reason I like it is the author is very supportive of DB principles, but with a bit of sandi's tough love of flair to it.

I think one of the things I learned going through all of this is that there is no such thing as a unique situation. While some of the dynamics may be different, and obviously people's life situations, the fact is that the underlying issues are often the same. As are the struggles of the LBS. Look at your situation, your W has had EAs (no PAs right?) yet is still there. However, the problem with EAs is that we as LBSs have to wonder that if left unchecked would it have progressed to an PA?

In my first sitch back in 2005, the guy was fairly local (just under an hour away), and he was clearly down the path of trying to get my W to have a PA. That was obvious from the messages I intercepted. My W was deep in on the emotional side. She was dreaming of a life with him. And he was feeding that, grooming her to eventually meet in person. My perception is that that was the one thing he was after, and I feel it was confirmed that once I discovered the EA and blew it up, he went NC on my W, cold. When she slipped up afterward, in your withdrawals (watching her be sad and heartbroken over another guy was almost more than I could take), and reached out to him. He ignored her. Finally he sent her a very short message to the effect of "I think it is better for both of us and our marriages to not be in contact".

Him instantly being able to pull the plug, after weeks of them both staying up late at night (my W was slinking to bed ~3 am most nights), and also him IMing with her for hours while he was at work, proved to me that he one goal in mind: PA. And once I popped that bubble he was on to his next victim. But still, my mind for weeks, maybe even months, after was racing about what came next. Should I have just monitored her activities and not blew the thing up? (I kind of got caught the night I confronted because I was reading the chat logs when she came into the office.) In the messages she was talking about meeting and just having one kiss. Her rationale was that if they met, and kissed, then she could realize that he wasn't all the perfection she built up in her head, and she could move past it. (REMEMBER believe nothing she says and only half of what she does!) But in an email to her online friends that the spy software I had installed captured, she wanted to meet and have a kiss because she just wanted to have a really hot kiss one more time in her life. Yeah, we know where that leads!

So at least with a PA you know how far the A would have progressed. In EAs there is always wonder. Your imagination will go wild to how she would have started lying about where she was (remember this was before smartphones and Life360), who she was with, what she was doing. Would she really have gone through with cheating physically with him, or would her conscience and spiritual side (we are both devout Christians, very involved in our congregation, and were back then as well) kick in and nip it in the bud. Blowing it up my mind would torture me because there was no way to know.

In all of my reading and studying of the subject since the most recent situation, I can now see why some people claim that EAs are worse in some ways than PAs. And even though the OM in our most recent sitch was several states away (he was also a loser, living with his elderly father, and a convicted felon, and no job), I had to again watch my W go through withdrawals when he ended the EA. After having received nude photos of my W, and who knows what else they did virtually.

So I really do understand what you are going through. My MR was a SSM leading up to both situations. As you can relate, my W said she was broken in that department. Any discussion of her lack of desire ended up in stonewalling on both our parts. I became a mean, withdrawn, critical jerk. In my head I would tell myself that she just wasn't a sexual person (though when we met she certainly was!). But that would be shattered by the fact that she seem to be pining for other men. I would wrestle with that for years, and even have to discuss it in IC. Why was she so non-sexual with me, yet so sexual with her EAPs?

And then there are a lot of embarrassing things about me as well through these. Installing spy software to catch her. Checking her panties in the dirty clothes for signs of physical arousal. These kinds of things have a way of turning us into crazy people engaging in behaviors that no rational, sane person would ever engage in. ANd the truth is I was no saint. I've opened up in the last year or so on this forum about my own EAs. Obviously something I am not proud of, but it goes to show that none of us are truly innocent in our situations. My handling of our MR problems was atrocious. I can remember her at certain points begging for her to go into IC (she was early on in our marriage and got nothing out of it, and at the time she wanted to go again we were not financially able to afford it), and beggig us to MC. And then after BD in Dec 2017, I was the one begging for her to do IC and us to do MC.

TheTexan, I don't know if you can relate to any of that, but I see you struggling with many of the same things I did. Attaching importance to things where there is none. Taking what she says at face-value. "I just wanted to make-out with him." Not buying it. As you pointed out, she isn't really into making out, and with you guys having a SSM I am sure her urges were for a lot more than making out. One of the things I discovered in the last sitch was that my W had been ordering sex toys, and hiding them. Here was a woman that claimed she didn't even want sex, and she was buying and hiding sex toys.......... More heartbreak. Why not talk to me about her desires? Why not include me in the play? And then the endless wondering if she had used them while talking to OM? What did that mean for how she felt about me? How she ever felt about me?

Sorry for the novel. But your sitch reminds me a lot of my own. All I can tell you is that if you stick it out, keep working on yourself, make sure to have requirements for her to come back to the MR, then in a few months you can have MR 2.0 with her, and realize how much happier in life you are. If you let her back and do not address the issues you both have, then you will be stuck in the misery you had pre-BD.......and setting yourself up for another BD. I can speak to this because I made that mistake after the 2005 sitch. And even though it didn't happen again for 12 years it eventually did happen, and was much worse. (in 2005 she immediately said she wanted to work on the MR and didn't want a D, in 2017 she immediately said she didn't want to be married and wanted a D.)

Keep working for what you want, and make sure she understands what requirements you have of her.