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I have been reading the forums since Friday and while I see lots of good advice I still feel lost b/c my sitch is quite different from most in that my WW doesn't want a D or even a separation. So not quite sure which advice to take. Let me explain.

Recent history about my sitch.

First I should say one of the main qualities I have always loved about my W is that she has always been one of the most honest and trustworthy people I have ever known. Until now.

My wife and I have been in a SSM for at least a decade if not longer. It's hard to even remember when it was good. She was the LDS and I was the HDS. Due to the SSM we essentially have been emotionally distant for many years as well with most days us just doing our own thing until dinner, then an hour of TV then she goes to bed and I stay up for a couple more hours for more TV.

In Jan, W came to me and said that it wasn't fair to me that she wasn't giving me what I needed in the bedroom and was considering giving me a "hall pass". I declined the pass and told her that I wasn't interested in other people and thought it would just make things worse. I apparently missed the big red flag.

Thur May 14, 2020 - Unconventional BD. W says she wants to talk and again offers me a "hall pass" and again I declined. This is when the bomb dropped. W says that she wants a hall pass. Oddly enough I didn't even get mad. I just listened and asked a few probing questions. Over the next couple of hours I learned a lot about my W and how she was feeling. Apparently over the last couple of years she found herself being aroused by other people (3 in total). The first two were unrequited but that now there was a new person and it had turned into essentially an EA. The OM is a coworker (they all were) who is also married and my W tells me they have not been physical yet and she has never cheated but they both "really want to" and she wants permission. She tells me all the usual cliches ILYBNILWY, "I'm not attracted to you anymore", etc. Unlike most BD's though she also says she loves our life together, and does NOT want a divorce or even a separation. We spent some time discussing the merits and pitfalls of open marriages.

I told her I understood why she felt that way, that we had become too distant, I owned my part in it, for neglecting the problems we had. I told her I would not be ok with an open marriage, especially as a first solution. I told her maybe as a last resort, but that if she really did love our life together then maybe we should seek MC and try to get back to where we used to be and regain what we had lost. She was reluctant at first saying she wasn't sure it could be fixed but eventually she decided she would try. I am not sure if this was because she really wants to or if it's because she is afraid to be alone since she can't support herself financially and her OM already has a wife who he says he will never leave.

My wife only works weekends (she is going back to school to become a nurse during the week) and the OM only works on Saturdays. Supposedly that next Saturday she told the OM that they could not be physical b/c she was going to try with me. Of course I have no proof. The next week I started noticing her being sneakier with her phone so the EA was definitely still happening. We searched for a MC and found one but contact wasn't returned until Mon May 25 and our first appt was on May 29. W told the counselor the same thing that she did not want a D and that she did want our marriage to work. The MC correctly identified their relationship as an EA and told my wife that if she wanted this to work she needed to end the EA and since they work together they had to keep it professional. W appeared to understand.

As soon as the MC video conference ended (Thanks Covid-19), W says, "I feel like I am being told what to do". I replied, well you kind of are. W had had a biopsy 3 days prior (benign YAY). I said, just like with your biopsy, the Dr. told you to not take aspirin products for several days, leave the bandage on for 2 days and the steristrips on for 5 days, if she wanted it to heal properly. I said this is no different, the Dr. is telling you what to do if you want this to heal properly. She appeared to understand.

That night she made it a point to wear new underwear which she would go to work in the next day. She stayed after work to "talk" to the OM and supposedly tell him that they needed to keep it professional and not have outside contact. Should I believe this or did she rebel against the Dr and turn the EA into an A?

Our next MC session is this Friday and she says she needs some alone time to gather and document her thoughts before the session and says she can't do that at home. She want to go spend a night or two in a hotel alone. I have my doubts that she would be alone. She even told me that when she did go to the hotel, to not get any ideas about trying to be romantic and surprising her. So is she really just reflecting and documenting or is she having a PA?

She still says ILY and kisses me each night at bed time and before leaving the house. We still live in the same house, sleep in the same bed, and share dinner together and many lunches.

So here I am reading these forums and seeing all sorts of advice to distance but we have been doing that for over a decade. It would be hard to be more distant without me forcing a separation. I see advice that she won't change until she feels loss for her actions. So should I force a separation? I also see advice that the best thing is to try to spend more time together, to "date" again, which she has agreed to try along with the MC. We did go out on a "date" on May 22 but couldn't stay out too late b/c she had work in the AM. At my request, she also compiled a list of hobbies/activities she might want to do with me and we are making plans to do some of them. Is she doing this to appease me so I won't leave or b/c she really wants this to work?

Bottom line is, I am completely unclear which phase I am in. If she really did break things off with the OM and really does just want the alone time to reflect and think, and really does want things to work between us then we may be at least close to reconciliation and we should be doing more date night stuff. If my previously OVERLY-honest W is suddenly really dishonest and instead of breaking things off changed the EA to a PA and wants me to basically pay for a hotel love nest for her and the OM, then I am in a different boat entirely with a completely different set of rules (WW??? and/or MLC???) and maybe I should force a separation to trigger the loss. Not knowing which boat I am even in is making my choice of next actions all but impossible.

Part of me thinks I should force the separation anyway just to make sure. Am I wrong in thinking this way. What if she is being honest and me forcing a separation drives her back to the OM? I can almost here her yelling "First you make me break it off with "OM" and now you're dumping me too?". Should I allow her the night in a hotel to reflect. She want so do it this week so time on this decision is of the essence. She will probably try to book the room in the next 24-48 hours.

I almost envy those with a WAS/WAW. At least they know exactly where they are and can proceed accordingly.

For me and my work I have started working out again, something I haven't done in at least 15 years. It feels good to get moving again. As far as GAL goes well that's going to be a bit harder. I moved to this new city 21 years ago, met my wife shortly after and we have been together since. All of my pre-marriage friends live 2 hours away, with the closet about 1 hour but he has a bad work schedule for getting together plus he is paranoid about C19. All of my other friends are essentially husbands of her sister or her friends. I can't meet co-workers because I have worked from home for many years and my companies nearest office is over 1000 miles away. My W and Step-D and our mutual friends have basically been my whole world for nearly 20 years. I don't even know what my outside interests are or who I could share them with if mot my W.

There is a LOT more history of how we ended up in a SSM and why we emotionally disconnected but if I added it here this would be well into the TLDR territory. Maybe I will add that in a later post.

I appreciate any insight or advice as to where I am and what I should do next.

Me-46 W-39
Step-D20 (and pregnant)
T-19, M-17
BD May 14, 2020
EA revealed May 14, 2020

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Texan welcome the board. I am a fellow native Texan! (Texas rules!) Anyway, I am sorry you have to be here. I can relate to a lot of what you've typed. I was very much in a similar situation with my W's first EA. And certainly with the second EA. The big difference being my W knew I would never be open to an open marriage. So when I confronted her on her first EA 14+ years ago she immediately said she didn't want a D, and that she wanted to work on us. But it was reluctant. The EA addiction was strong and took her weeks and months to get over it. Even reaching out to AP a few times. He, too, was married and only wanted some strange. He was not going to leave his W and family for her, he just wanted to use her body. (I think deep down she knew that.)

With the second EA, I think she was much more into getting it to the physical. When confronted she immediately said she wanted a D. I think as wayward as she was, if I had floated the idea of an open marriage, she would have jumped at the idea. I think at first she would have declined but then as she thought about it she would have wanted to try it. Again, no way was I agreeing to that, and she knew that.

Here is the thing. This did not happen overnight. This is OM #3, even if the other two weren't interested for whatever reason. You have to face some hard truths. Likely, they've already been physical with him. There are already so many red flags. The "hall pass" was likely not to get your permission as it was to relieve her guilt. My W said many times that it would have been easier for her if I had cheated on her. But the staying late to chat. The wanting to get a hotel. All huge red flags. I think this thing is much deeper than you know.

Second, even if she is saying she wants to stay married, etc, it is a lie. If this guy were single she'd likely already be entertaining thoughts of leaving you for him. The fact that he is unavailable for that means that she needs to keep you as Plan B. Open marriage would be the easiest course for her. But short of that she realizes that she needs to keep telling you what you want to hear. This is called "throwing you off the scent". She is not at all committed to your marriage right now. And that means that you should not be in MC.

I would head that hotel off a the pass. Tell her: “I’ve decided to stop marriage counseling. I feel that it would just be going through the motions at this point. I’m going to start individual counseling on my own. A lot has happened and I need help processing it so I can heal and move forward.”

This will do two things. It will stop the sham that MC is right now in your MR. She IS just going through the motions because she needs you to be there right now. Plus later she can tell people "we tried everything, even MC!" And it will also put to the test this need to have "alone time to gather and document her thoughts before the session". If after you stop MC she still wants that alone time.....well, you have your answer.

You also need to get back to the life you had before her. Get with old friends, even if just phonecalls and texts. Pick up old hobbies and get back in touch with them. Really discover the inner you that you have lost. I see you alrady making GAL excuses. Drop those. Where there is a will there is a way! You need to read like crazy and start instituting changes to yourself. Get DR, read it. Get other self-help books, read them. Concentrate on becoming the best TheTexan you can be! And then work on detachment. Learn what that means and start detaching. You need to get to a place where you W words and actions (and there will be many shocking ones to come, trust me) do not affect you emotionally!

As far as your actions towards her? You need to really do nothing. Your goal right now is to remove all pressure and pursuit. To back way off and give her room to decide things for herself. A huge red flag is her saying she feels she is being told what to do. Wayward wives are rebellious. She is going to buck against anyone and anything that tells her not to do what she wants to do. This is why MC is fruitless. The MC says "this is an EA and you need to stop it". Guess what? She is going to want to amp it up! So back off, let her figure her stuff out. DO NOT TRY TO CONTROL HER!

And I see a lot of control red flags with you: "If my previously OVERLY-honest W is suddenly really dishonest and instead of breaking things off changed the EA to a PA and wants me to basically pay for a hotel love nest for her and the OM"

Have you always been controlling with money? You said she works, are you saying she can't pay for her own hotel room? Even if you don't, do you think OM can't? Anyway, if you put an end to MC, then you don't have to worry about the need for her to be alone....unless she is really lying about it.

GAL. 180s. Detachment. Remove all pressure and pursuit. Do not try to control her. Let her go to get her back. That is what you should be focusing all of your energy on now.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Thank you for the warm welcome Steve85.

I have already ordered DB and it is supposed to arrive today. I am literally stalking the Fed-Ex guy. I will definitely try the "stop MC advice" tonight. After reading your post I am almost more convinced that I should push for separation to make sure she knows she is losing me by her actions and to see if she really wants to make this work or is just going through the motions.

As far as detachment and distancing, how do I respond when she says ILY and kisses me goodnight or goodbye? Refuse the kiss and don't respond? People keep saying do a 180, but detachment and distancing is what we have been doing for 10+ years. A 180 would be spending more time together.

To address your control concern, the answer is sort of. She does work and her income is roughly 1/7 of the total household income but that isn't the issue. My W was a horrible impulse buyer, the first several years despite a very nice income we were perpetually broke because she was "twenty-dollaring" us to death. One day she was upset b/c we didn't have $200 for something she really wanted. So I went around the house and gathered up all the $10-$20 junk she had bought in the last month and laid it at her feet and said there was the $200 she needed (it was more like $380-$420 worth of junk). She got the point. After that I did control money a bit tighter. In the years since then, I was able to buy her a new house, the dream bed she wanted (a $10,000 Sleep Number bed), buy her dream car (Honda Pilot) (nearly paid in full at time of purchase), take vacations, pay cash for her new degree instead of loans, and still build a sizeable savings. Now some of that was some bill control, but yeah she really was wasting that much. So as strange as it may sound, she actually appreciates that control and what it allows her to actually get. She has said as much several times, especially when family and friends ask her how we do so well and live the lifestyle we have. I really don't control anything else.

I really pray that you are wrong about them already being physical. The fundamental truth is, if I do find out that they have already been physical, this all of this is for nothing, as I would never want her back or to even touch her again. The thought utterly disgusts me and I know me and I would never be able to get that trust back if we had eternity to rebuild it. That may be my hang up, but I refuse to be my W's sloppy second. I would happily take the D and move on with my life in that case. I deserve to be with someone that wants me for me, is actually in love with me, and is attracted to me.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my W more than anything, but I couldn't live with anyone after a betrayal like that. I would always be paranoid that it was still a lie just to keep her lifestyle and about it happening again. Again my issue, but I am at least honest about it.

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Maybe a little more history of how we ended up emotionally distant might help.

As mentioned we were in a long term SSM although not really either of our faults. Early on things were fine as they are in most R's. A couple of years in she started complaining that sex hurt, like "pins and needles". We saw many Dr's, there were no STD's, no problems, issues, or any thing that anyone could find. She literally asked everyone she knew, friends, family, no one had any clue. So of course our SL suffered. While I understood the why, it didn't make it any easier to handle.

In the middle of all this her best friend and her husband both lost their jobs and were evicted, so they came to stay with us for about a year. During this time I noticed my wife becoming more distant, less passionate, less into any sort of "PDA" even in private. Unbeknownst to me until after they had moved out, her "friend" had been in her ear the whole time telling her that we were gross, that our affections were disgusting, etc. Over the year that constant barrage of negativity seeped in. The friend divorced her husband shortly after moving out.

The ex-husband of my wife's friend met a new woman, (now married) and she became my wife's new best friend. When my wife told her of the problem, this new woman finally had the answer to our pain problem. It turned out the soap I was using was the culprit. Sure enough changing soaps and the problem was gone. Unfortunately most of the damage had already been done, we were no longer passionate, sex while much better was still rare. She had gotten used to never wanting it and I had already started to emotionally distance myself.

There was a bit more to the problems, my younger brother and both of her parents died at various points which each time caused some setbacks. Twice I had to take pay cuts to keep my job which didn't help stress levels.

Over the years that followed, she wanted it less and less and I was less and less emotionally available. As all of my friends were husbands of her friends/family, I retreated into video games. It was the only place I had that was just mine alone. I was not really a gamer before. It became a downward spiral that brought us to the point of once per year usually in the spring (April/May time frame). I accept my part in all of this. I didn't give her what she needed emotionally. I wish I had heard about SSM and DB 10-12 years ago, maybe I wouldn't be where I am now.

Through it all, I still supported everything she ever wanted to do, never discouraged her. Every job change, first degree "Associates in paralegalism" (she never got a job as a paralegal though), her now second degree she is working on, everything. I was her rock through the grief of dying parents.

The only thing I didn't support her on was having another child. She had a child from a previous R, not M which I have raised as my own since age 1. I had always wanted a child as well but with the SSM is full swing, I was not always sure I could stay in the M and didn't want to be baby daddy #2. Also she was a smoker and I had asked her to quit so that it would not jeopardize the health of our child. She didn't quit until about 2 years ago but by then there was no way to make a baby since we never performed the act to make one. She has said she resents me for this, and I fully understand, to a degree I also resent her for this. Who knows maybe she never gets past that this one issue and we really are doomed. I am not sure we will ever be really sure.

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Originally Posted by TheTexan
Thank you for the warm welcome Steve85.

I have already ordered DB and it is supposed to arrive today. I am literally stalking the Fed-Ex guy. I will definitely try the "stop MC advice" tonight. After reading your post I am almost more convinced that I should push for separation to make sure she knows she is losing me by her actions and to see if she really wants to make this work or is just going through the motions.


One thing to learn Texan is that talk is cheap. And with your financial situation she will probably resist separation until she is able to either by living with OM, or at least having him fund it. We have a saying around here, a monkey doesn't jump from the branch it is on until it finds another branch that can support it.

So "pushing" for separation falls into the pursuit and pressure category. Especially since you just admit you don't really want to separate but that you want her to see she is losing you. Many LBSs have done things like that for the wrong reasons ("maybe it will wake her up!"), only to end up physically separated. I point out to people all the time here that LBSs always think the grass is greener. "It would be easier if we were physically separated!", but then those that are say "it would be easier to show her I've changed if we still lived together!" You will be miserable no matter what. Trust me on that. If she stays and you guys are in limbo, you will be miserable. If she goes, you will wonder what she is doing and with who and struggle with wanting to contact her. It literally is a darned if you do darned if you don't scenario. So be careful what you wish for.

Originally Posted by TheTexan

As far as detachment and distancing, how do I respond when she says ILY and kisses me goodnight or goodbye? Refuse the kiss and don't respond? People keep saying do a 180, but detachment and distancing is what we have been doing for 10+ years. A 180 would be spending more time together.


The general rule is to not initiate, but if she does it is ok to reciprocate. Detachment and distance doesn't mean you have to reject her. It means you are the lighthouse! You are standing where you've always stood, shining a saving light. She can either come towards the light or not, that you have no control over. But you stand and let her come to you.

And do not use 180ing as an excuse to break the moratorium on pressure and pursuit. Yes a 180 might be to spend more time together. But I like to use the analogy of someone just eating. Your W is full. And you are trying to get her to eat more. Ever have someone do that to you? It is annoying. So when she tells you "I am full", don't try to get her to eat more, back off and wait until she gets hungry again. Also think about it this way, your W has essentially told you she wants none of you right now. Is it logical to now try to push more of yourself on her? That may have worked 6 months ago, a year ago, etc, but not now.

Originally Posted by TheTexan

To address your control concern, the answer is sort of. She does work and her income is roughly 1/7 of the total household income but that isn't the issue. My W was a horrible impulse buyer, the first several years despite a very nice income we were perpetually broke because she was "twenty-dollaring" us to death. One day she was upset b/c we didn't have $200 for something she really wanted. So I went around the house and gathered up all the $10-$20 junk she had bought in the last month and laid it at her feet and said there was the $200 she needed (it was more like $380-$420 worth of junk). She got the point. After that I did control money a bit tighter. In the years since then, I was able to buy her a new house, the dream bed she wanted (a $10,000 Sleep Number bed), buy her dream car (Honda Pilot) (nearly paid in full at time of purchase), take vacations, pay cash for her new degree instead of loans, and still build a sizeable savings. Now some of that was some bill control, but yeah she really was wasting that much. So as strange as it may sound, she actually appreciates that control and what it allows her to actually get. She has said as much several times, especially when family and friends ask her how we do so well and live the lifestyle we have. I really don't control anything else.


Yes, that is what she says. But this dynamic (and it was present in my MR too!) has turned you into father and daughter. Daughter must ask daddy's permission to buy X, Y, and Z. Even the example you gave of gathering the "junK" and showing her where the $200 she needed was is controlling. Nitpicking every expenditure (let me guess, you even took over the grocery shopping duties to control the spending?), while she may have even admitted was necessary, certainly would still engender a good deal of resentment. And it also would mean that your MR went from partnership to boss-employee. That is a recipe for disaster.

This is where a 180 could come in! Setup household budgets, and let the budgets be the control. Not TheTexan approving every expenditure in the house.

Originally Posted by TheTexan

I really pray that you are wrong about them already being physical. The fundamental truth is, if I do find out that they have already been physical, this all of this is for nothing, as I would never want her back or to even touch her again. The thought utterly disgusts me and I know me and I would never be able to get that trust back if we had eternity to rebuild it. That may be my hang up, but I refuse to be my W's sloppy second. I would happily take the D and move on with my life in that case. I deserve to be with someone that wants me for me, is actually in love with me, and is attracted to me.


I wouldn't have enough fingers and toes even if I had 4 sets of hands and feet to count the number of LBSs that come to this forum with this attitude. Only to let it go the minute they find out the PA is already underway. Is a PA a legitmate actual dealbreaker for you? Or are you just saying that because you are hoping beyond hope it hasn't happened yet? Here is the thing, a lot of these sitches we see, by time the WAS is ready to BD, the deed with the OP has already been done. I am not blunt with you to scare you or hurt you, but to prepare you. Likely it has already happened. And if not, it is imminent based on her "hall pass" talk and BD.

So if you are serious, do your due diligence now. Get a free consult with an attorney. Be ready to do what you need to do to protect yourself. Because the odds are that if you are serious about it being a deal-breaker than the deal has already been broken.

Originally Posted by TheTexan

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my W more than anything, but I couldn't live with anyone after a betrayal like that. I would always be paranoid that it was still a lie just to keep her lifestyle and about it happening again. Again my issue, but I am at least honest about it.


Again, lots of LBSs have made statements like this but then waffle when it becomes a reality.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Originally Posted by TheTexan
Maybe a little more history of how we ended up emotionally distant might help.

As mentioned we were in a long term SSM although not really either of our faults. Early on things were fine as they are in most R's. A couple of years in she started complaining that sex hurt, like "pins and needles". We saw many Dr's, there were no STD's, no problems, issues, or any thing that anyone could find. She literally asked everyone she knew, friends, family, no one had any clue. So of course our SL suffered. While I understood the why, it didn't make it any easier to handle.

In the middle of all this her best friend and her husband both lost their jobs and were evicted, so they came to stay with us for about a year. During this time I noticed my wife becoming more distant, less passionate, less into any sort of "PDA" even in private. Unbeknownst to me until after they had moved out, her "friend" had been in her ear the whole time telling her that we were gross, that our affections were disgusting, etc. Over the year that constant barrage of negativity seeped in. The friend divorced her husband shortly after moving out.

The ex-husband of my wife's friend met a new woman, (now married) and she became my wife's new best friend. When my wife told her of the problem, this new woman finally had the answer to our pain problem. It turned out the soap I was using was the culprit. Sure enough changing soaps and the problem was gone. Unfortunately most of the damage had already been done, we were no longer passionate, sex while much better was still rare. She had gotten used to never wanting it and I had already started to emotionally distance myself.

There was a bit more to the problems, my younger brother and both of her parents died at various points which each time caused some setbacks. Twice I had to take pay cuts to keep my job which didn't help stress levels.

Over the years that followed, she wanted it less and less and I was less and less emotionally available. As all of my friends were husbands of her friends/family, I retreated into video games. It was the only place I had that was just mine alone. I was not really a gamer before. It became a downward spiral that brought us to the point of once per year usually in the spring (April/May time frame). I accept my part in all of this. I didn't give her what she needed emotionally. I wish I had heard about SSM and DB 10-12 years ago, maybe I wouldn't be where I am now.

Through it all, I still supported everything she ever wanted to do, never discouraged her. Every job change, first degree "Associates in paralegalism" (she never got a job as a paralegal though), her now second degree she is working on, everything. I was her rock through the grief of dying parents.

The only thing I didn't support her on was having another child. She had a child from a previous R, not M which I have raised as my own since age 1. I had always wanted a child as well but with the SSM is full swing, I was not always sure I could stay in the M and didn't want to be baby daddy #2. Also she was a smoker and I had asked her to quit so that it would not jeopardize the health of our child. She didn't quit until about 2 years ago but by then there was no way to make a baby since we never performed the act to make one. She has said she resents me for this, and I fully understand, to a degree I also resent her for this. Who knows maybe she never gets past that this one issue and we really are doomed. I am not sure we will ever be really sure.



Couple of things here. I know society has changed and moved on from the old-fashioned world of the man being the leader of the household. But I think there is a lot of biology at play here. Watch little boys play vs. how little girls play. Boys are aggressive, competitive, hot-tempered even. Girls tend to play things that are cooperative, they are courtesy with each other "No you can have the good doll", etc. Biology has set it up for men to be the leaders. Therefore when there is something amiss in the home, the last thing a man should do is point to the problem and say "it is her fault".

I believe that men should lead in the bedroom....but it starts outside of the bedroom. You cannot be an angry, resentful, controlling jerk during the day, and then get between the sheets and be all "Come here honey!" As a fellow Texan, big and tall bald TV therapist likes to say "how's that working for you?" So take responsibility for this. The exact WRONG way to go about dealing with a SSM is to withhold the emotional connection she needs. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. "My wife is never in the mood so I've withheld all other forms of intimacy from her!" Doesn't make sense, does it?

Now, that is the past. But clearly she has needed that emotional connection because she has now sought it out in 3 OM. Wake-up call!!

Oh, and spending oodles of time in a video game, also not a good way to deal with it. I have seen so many LBHs that admit that their gaming became an issue. So you need to 180 on that as well. Not for her. Not for MR, but for you. You will be much more productive without that in your life.

As far as the child. I can relate. We have one daughter. SSM had started to creep into our lives when we had our first daughter. I was resentful. I was controlling (mostly withe money). I nitpicked her housekeeping, how she spent her time etc, all out of anger and bitterness. When she came to me at one point and said she wanted another child, I refused for many of the same reasons you cite. If you are able to save your MR, and you and her end up reconciling, I would highly suggest you 180 on this. I am 51, she is 52. We are past child-bearing years now. I regret not giving her another child all the time because it is the one thing I cannot fix.

So I get it. First, let's get you right! Do not dismiss what I said about IC! IC did me wonders. Then when you are right maybe she will be open to reconciling. And then after that, you guys can put in the work to fix your MR, heal, and move forward.

It starts with you.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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OK I will hold of on the separation conversation for now. I do get what you mean about the money, though I am not sure what I would go back and change on that front, even if I could. My wife also has MS, so having that extra money for medical bills, has been a godsend.

I hate shopping and do everything I can to get out of doing it. For groceries we really don't even use a budget. What we have always done was sit down, decide what we want to eat for the week then go buy what we need to make those 7 meals + lunches, snacks, etc. I don't go with her clothes shopping either, though we do use a budget there with some +- leeway. She will call if she plans on going WAY over for some reason though. I have NEVER, not even once, denied her anything she needed. The only thing I really put a stop to was random junk gadget buying. She literally bought 9 pencil holders over less than a year (because they were cute and ONLY cost $10-$20 each). No one needs that many pencil holders. She bought lots of stupid kitchen gadgets, many of which, that even after 12+ years are still IN THE BOX unused. For instance one of the early ones was a funnel cake making kit, yet after 15 years not 1 funnel cake has been made in this house. That is what I mean by wasting money. Buying something needed is always alright no approval required. Buying unnecessary trash that will never get used is the line. I can see how that is still control, but I also know without it, especially with her medical bills, we would be dead broke instead of sitting pretty. I will try to work on it though.

I am not a waffler, or a crawfisher. Cheating is a 100% deal breaker. I was engaged once before and she cheated. I took the ring I gave her and never spoke to her again. I feel so strongly about cheating I won't even watch movies about cheating such as Indecent Proposal. I have spent the last two days preparing myself mentally to initiate a separation if that was the advice I was given or a D if I found out she had cheated. After dealing with this mess for 2 weeks and losing sleep, Friday night when I really suspected her cheating and made up my mind if I am right it was all over, the last 3 nights have been the best sleep I have since this started.

i have not confronted her with my suspicions and evidence yet, I wanted to wait to hear from you guys first. Speaking of should I tell her what I suspect and why or just leave it be? I think she is the type that when confronted if it's true would not be able to hide it. It was like that when she was hiding her relapse with smoking. She hid it for a while but when confronted she couldn't look me in the eye and deny it.

Either way, I already know that even with a D I will survive, I could probably even thrive better than I have for the last 10 years. This is emotionally challenging but I know that once I know for sure I can "let go and let god" and be just fine. For now, I just finished my new daily workout and I'm feeling good.

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I know what I did was wrong, I only see it now though. Watching the Tedx Talk on SSM was the real eye opener. It was us to a T.

When my W told me about this, she said she was "broken". I told her she wasn't and that I owned at least half of any blame. I admitted that I hadn't been giving her the emotional connection she needed and understood why she wanted to fill that need elsewhere. And I do understand. That is why through all of this I have not gotten mad or raised my voice even once.

I haven't even thought about a video game since this started. I threw that crutch away like it was a bomb. I have been doing nothing but focusing on reading these forums, watching videos about MR problems and possible solutions. As long as there has been no PA, I really would like to save this. If there has been a PA, then it's already over. I have accepted this and as soon as I did, it felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.

I agree, I wish I had given her a child as well. Without that major resentment, I think we would have a better chance, and even though I am 46 and she is 39 and we technically could, with her starting a new career, she doesn't even want to start over with a child now. Plus we will have a grand baby in 3 months. Maybe that will give her the baby fix she needs. Who knows.

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Just got an email from Amazon, my delivery of the DBing book is not going to be here today after all.

/sigh

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