Turning lots of corners - DaB35 Part 8

[DaB35]

Journal

Been doing a lot of reading (well, Audible-ing) lately, mainly on communication and just being happy and positive in general. Really helping. I'm finding I'm already doing certain things that are cited as good suggestions.

One thing that I have done a bit of reading up on is narcisissm. I have seen the term used on her occasionally, but have never read up on it. I don't believe I am a full on 'narc' but some traits of NGS do suggest it; mainly the infrequent passive aggression. Then it suddenly dawned on me. I think my mum is a bit of a narcissist. She never takes responsibility for anything, and if something goes wrong it's always someone else's fault rather than possibly being just a coincidence or bad luck. She guilts me and my sister when we do things she disapproves of (classic example for her: selling something we used to own ten years ago but we no longer require it and want to make a bit of cash. She is a hoarder). She expects us to be perfect all the time and shows us off (when we were younger, whenever they had a party, I'd be forced to play the piano in front of everyone, which I hated). She is totally dependent on my dad for everything (who is definitely NGS and totally passive) and never takes any advice that my sister and I give regarding her health. She doesn't like us implying she's doing things wrong.

XW's friends were quite narcissistic to a degree too. Inflated egos. Unreliable when we'd try to organise events. Putting her down - she'd always complain "they always make me the butt of the joke." Yet she'd just continue hang out with them as they'd been friends since they were 7 years old. One even threatened to cancel XW's hen do about a fortnight before it happened. Crazy.

XW had some similar traits - shaming others (including me) about mistakes, overly competitive, tantrums, criticising others and rarely seeing positives. Her family generally were very happy to dole out criticisms - "that's not funny", "that's a bit rubbish", "I didn't like that", "she's a bit mental", "they look terrible" - but then when it's directed at them they don't like it - "oh what a shame you think that", "no that's rubbish!", "how dare you say that". They are heavily dependent on confirmation bias too. Rarely look at both sides of an argument or point.

Also realised that sadly I think XW has a somewhat toxic relationship with her sister. Explains the dynamic between them. Her sis was horrible to her when they were kids, ridiculing her in front of her own friends, then as adults she's been very controlling and manipulative, and all the time XW wants to appease her. She moved 200 miles away and for years was trying to convince us to move ten minutes up the road from her, forgetting that there were no jobs where they live. She would spend hours on the internet looking at houses completely out of our budget and show them to us and say "This one's nice" and plan out what each room would be used for. When we looked round the house we eventually bought, her sis had a big issue with the square footage of the house. "Oh, that's too small. You need a bigger one." Then a few hours later, XW worriedly said to me, "Do you think we should buy the bigger house? [Sis] said it has more square feet." I said "No, because it's 30k more, and we both said we liked the layout of this one!" After about 20 minutes of going round and round this point, she then agreed with me.
When she came to stay at the house we bought, she walked into my study and immediately said "This would be a good baby room." XW and I had both said repeatedly for years that we didn't want kids. Yet, during S, XW brought up kids - suddenly it was entirely my 'fault' that we didn't have kids because "I was so against it." I knew that was her sis manipulating her as XW ran away to her house for 3 weeks. Her sis is jealous of XW being an aunty; her life is boring by comparison. She has been controlled by her H's desire to further his career; they've hopped around the country for years as he changes jobs and she's been a housewife, whilst XW set up businesses and developed skills and learned things. He even forbid her from going to XW's hen do for money reasons because they were going on holiday later in the year (yes you read that right).

Perhaps XW still feels like she has to prove something to her sis still, and be 'accepted' somehow. She has always been very susceptible to peer pressure.

I felt sorry for her. Shame that we didn't discuss this in MC. She is a bit of quitter in general: when things get tough, she runs away, destroys things, has a tantrum, gives up. I've seen her do it a lot. I never thought she'd do it with our M though. Funnily enough, when the opportunity to have MC came (I even offered to pay for it), she never took it. The problems between us could have been resolved, I believe. A lot of people who have spoken to both of us over the last year or so agree with me. It essentially boiled down to a combination of communciation, unmatched love languages, and attitudes. I was willing to put the work in; she wasn't.

[Don't worry everyone - 2x4 self hit occuring...now!]

I also read about "avoidant personality" traits. This was definitely me. A fear of being embarrased.
Why I never took risks in life, never tried anything new; I always feared I'd mess up and embarrass myself in front of others.
Why I never spoke out in discussions, for fear of my opinion being rubbished or mocked.
Why I never opened up for fear of being laughed at.
Extreme self-awareness and feeling very sensitive when people would just say, "Oh you're just shy aren't ya?" Constantly feeling inferior, a lesser person. All through my teenage years, college, adult life.
Silly things too; say I would be in a queue in a supermarket and a group of girls were behind me, if they started laughing I instantly thought, "Oh, they're laughing at me, something about the way I look, my clothes, my shoes, what I've bought." 100% that was never the case. But I really thought it was at the time.

Now, I think back to that old me, and realise how far I've come. I went for a walk yesterday and had a conversation with a complete stranger. They were picking berries. We talked for a good 5 minutes. I felt good afterwards.

Gym going very well. Definitely seeing some biceps now! Working on my diet and upping the protein/carbs appropriately - doing intermittent fasting, having all my meals within 12 hours too. That feels amazing. I'm not snacking anymore, feel less tired, sleep better and wake up more alert. I do yoga stretches every other evening before/during exercies too, which helps.

I find I'm making more effort to engage more in conversations with people at work. I'm even cracking a few more jokes and making people laugh more in the office which is a good feeling. I walk around more confidently. I'm also making more effort to keep in touch with people. I'm having a catch up on FaceTime with my old flatmate from college this weekend. Haven't seen him in 2 years.

YouTube channel is going well; I've been sharing my vids on a few Facebook groups related to my topic and getting some nice comments. Someone simply said, "You sir, are awesome." Wow - Never had a complete stranger compliment my creative work like that before! Now at a massive 15 subscribers! I'm happy with that for 2 months' work. Also thinking about crowdfunding or Kickstarter for a new project too. Trying new things is good.

Me v.2 is definitely in operation!

[AnotherStander]

D, sounds like you're doing awesome, nice work! My dad was an extreme narcissist. I (like you) did not really realize what one was or identify him as such until coming here and doing all of the research that this path led me on. I also recognized some of those traits in myself and have largely removed them. I still have to gutcheck myself now and then, but just being aware of the issues does help us to address them. I think that's the biggest difference between a narcissist and a "nice guy" is the nice guy is willing to change and is often unaware of the harm their behavior causes until they learn more about it, whereas a narcissist just thinks they are right and the world is wrong and the world needs to bend to their will. I am not aware of a hardcore narcissist ever changing and I've known a few!

Keep up the great work at the gym and loosening up with people!

[DaB35]

Hi AS, thanks for your comment - it means a lot! Hope you are well.

I totally get the whole 'not knowing about' it until I was on here and subsequently spent time looking into it. It's eye-opening when you realise some traits were in your personality, but from a stage of learning and willingness to change that's half the battle of just cutting those traits out once you're aware of them. It feels great doesn't it - like you're lighter somehow.

Yes I hear what you're saying about nice guys wanting to change. Some don't of course, but I believe I'm in the 'want to change' camp.

Realised that I need to up my intake even more. I've realised I'm undereating by a few calories after having spoken to someone at the gym and done some macro calculators online. Hopefully once I rectify that , it'll reap even more rewards. Just getting back into using all the machines after lockdown - I had to reduce the weights when I first went back slightly as I didn't want to injure myself - but gradually increasing now after having gone more regularly.

Had an hour long chat with my old college friend. Didn't talk about XW. Just talked about our lives in the present, jobs, hobbies, etc. I made a real effort to listen and react more in the conversation and it was much more enjoyable; there were no lulls in the conversation at all.

Actually doing facetime was a first for me. I never did it because, due to avoidant personality traits, I was afraid of having my likeness on the screen for such a long time. I just forgot I was there yesterday. Feel so much more active in my head in a good way. Definitely low stress now. I think back even two/three years ago when I had alopecia in my beard and psoriasis. I'd never felt stress before at school/college so didn't know what it was. Then when I thought about my ailments, that obviously made me more stressed and made it worse! So glad I'm out of that rut.

Making some time to chill out too. I've just taken random days off work to the end of the year. I have planned to do things some days like a deep clean of my car's interior or visit a relative, but other days i'm just going to relax completely, go for a walk, phone off, computer off, iPad off, yoga/stretching, books and music only.

[DaB35]

If anyone hasn't read them, I'd strongly recommend I Hear You by Michael Sorenson. About halfway through. Really eye-opening. May need to listen to it a lot to help it sink in.

I applied some knowledge this week at work. We had some difficulty with some part of a project and I involved another manager to give me a bit of help. My boss then wondered why he hadn't been consulted on it and why I'd involved the other manager; basically I should have gone to him straight with a query instead. Normally I'd panic at an email like that, and be fluffing a response to him verbally. But I took a deep breath, and 30 mins later sent a very simple 3 section reply: what I did & why, in 2 sentences; acknowledged that I didn't consider a particular process; then proposed a solution. My boss wrote back "That's ok. I understand. Good that the work is nearly complete. I'm satisfied you've looked into the issue very carefully." All sorted!

I also got highly praised by both my boss and line manager at our weekly team meeting on Monday. Totally unexpected. Massive boost. I thanked them in front of everyone. Yesterday one of my colleagues in our office said, "Have you had a pay review yet? You should - you basically run parts of this company!" and we laughed.

I'm feeling more alpha, but "good" alpha.

Discovered an absolutely amazing band this week - The Midnight. They're 'retrowave' - synthy pop, full-on analog 80s style stuff but they are active now. If you haven't heard them, definitely give them a try!

[dunnm]

DaB35, good to hear your updates and your progress inspite of Covid. Keep working at it, said it before but worth saying again Mrs DaB35 II is going to be one lucky person.
I will check out Michael Sorenson because I really do need some help at work with my new Italian boss (mattrix management), she really is a piece of work, struggle to apply what this site has taught me - validate validate dont discuss validate.
Keeping within the site rules can you give a clue to YouTube channel?

[DaB35]

Thanks dunnm.

Yes validation is hard to do - it's not intuitive, but it'll become more so with practice. I tried it towards the end of last week when I went out with a best mate for dinner. We just chatted and I did my best to validate when he was talking about some problems with his GF. The Sorenson book is good as it gives lots of examples and also gives examples of what NOT to say too, which is very helpful.

The channel is music-based. Essentially the main gist is I take a clip of something - usually someone talking, or a meme - and work out the rhythm/pitch of what they're saying, turn it into a melody, and create a short (classical) piece of music based on that melody. Currently I'm doing a set of short works for each character from a film; taking a well-known line they have and making something out of it. Planning on doing some voiceover vids where I analyse certain aspects of pieces, or discuss other matters. Trying to keep it vague on purpose of course seeing as anyone can technically find this page!

Had a go at cooking a few things this weekend. Protein brownies and coconut rice pudding (not at the same time!). Gym as well this week has gone well - upping weights gradually now so hopefully will progress further with that as the weeks go by.

Very busy overall.

[DaB35]

Little update.

Gym is going well. I’m going about five times a week, and have also been doing a 20min abs workout at home every day for the past 15 days or so. Seeing some real progress now.

Work is fine - at home of course. Been given a small pay rise recently which was welcome. Studying is good; first exam in a fortnight. I’m passing the mock exams so far which is encouraging.

My best friend said he went to see XW as she wanted him to put up some lights and shelves in her new flat. He said somehow I got brought up in the conversation. He stuck up for me and said how well I was doing at the gym, working, more confidence, new hobbies like the YT channel etc. He said XW seemed annoyed that I’d ‘made an effort’. I wonder if she was actually annoyed because her friends and sister would’ve said things like “He’ll never change” or “He won’t take it seriously” constantly throughout S and after the D, when in fact I’ve done the complete opposite of that, without any influence from her or them.

Apparently XW started seeing someone at work. They got talking in March (our D was end of Feb!) and texted for weeks over lockdown. My friend said XW is apparently ‘unsure how she feels’ about this guy. However, he is essentially very similar to me, which is interesting (same hair, same build, plays the same instrument, similar age).
Friend then suggested they go out for a bite to eat or drink as he hadn’t had time to get anything by then, but she said she was ‘tired’ - he said she didn’t look tired at all. I suspect as soon as he left she called her sister and had a thirty minute phone chat about me. Oh well! I keep thinking, it’s her loss.

Been reading up on lots of stuff too. Am recognising narcissistic traits in other people a bit more. Reading up on how to deal with it. There is a great YT channel on it too so I come to that occasionally. Another flag is someone who always prioritises their family/siblings’ opinions before their partner’s; XW did this in spades. I always felt out of the picture with her family, so whatever her sister said for example XW would just go along with, even if it inconvenienced both of us. She always feels she owes her family something and I always got the feeling she resented spending more time with my family somewhat. Shame we never talked this through in MC, as I feel it could’ve been easily resolved, but there we go. I can say that all the reading I’m doing is helping me be more empathetic in conversations and I contribute way more in a group.

Anyway, let’s get back on track. I feel life is very good. I feel very healthy. Watching what I’m eating. Getting much better sleep, around eight hours a night now. Skin and complexion looks better. I’m making more effort to dress better even if I don’t leave the house, as I have a better opinion about myself.

Haven’t done some detailing on the car for a bit, been too busy! At least it’s another thing to keep on the list when I find myself having a free weekend.

Hope everybody is well!

[SteveLW]

Little update.

Gym is going well. I’m going about five times a week, and have also been doing a 20min abs workout at home every day for the past 15 days or so. Seeing some real progress now.

Work is fine - at home of course. Been given a small pay rise recently which was welcome. Studying is good; first exam in a fortnight. I’m passing the mock exams so far which is encouraging.

My best friend said he went to see XW as she wanted him to put up some lights and shelves in her new flat. He said somehow I got brought up in the conversation. He stuck up for me and said how well I was doing at the gym, working, more confidence, new hobbies like the YT channel etc. He said XW seemed annoyed that I’d ‘made an effort’. I wonder if she was actually annoyed because her friends and sister would’ve said things like “He’ll never change” or “He won’t take it seriously” constantly throughout S and after the D, when in fact I’ve done the complete opposite of that, without any influence from her or them.

Apparently XW started seeing someone at work. They got talking in March (our D was end of Feb!) and texted for weeks over lockdown. My friend said XW is apparently ‘unsure how she feels’ about this guy. However, he is essentially very similar to me, which is interesting (same hair, same build, plays the same instrument, similar age).
Friend then suggested they go out for a bite to eat or drink as he hadn’t had time to get anything by then, but she said she was ‘tired’ - he said she didn’t look tired at all. I suspect as soon as he left she called her sister and had a thirty minute phone chat about me. Oh well! I keep thinking, it’s her loss.

Been reading up on lots of stuff too. Am recognising narcissistic traits in other people a bit more. Reading up on how to deal with it. There is a great YT channel on it too so I come to that occasionally. Another flag is someone who always prioritises their family/siblings’ opinions before their partner’s; XW did this in spades. I always felt out of the picture with her family, so whatever her sister said for example XW would just go along with, even if it inconvenienced both of us. She always feels she owes her family something and I always got the feeling she resented spending more time with my family somewhat. Shame we never talked this through in MC, as I feel it could’ve been easily resolved, but there we go. I can say that all the reading I’m doing is helping me be more empathetic in conversations and I contribute way more in a group.

Anyway, let’s get back on track. I feel life is very good. I feel very healthy. Watching what I’m eating. Getting much better sleep, around eight hours a night now. Skin and complexion looks better. I’m making more effort to dress better even if I don’t leave the house, as I have a better opinion about myself.

Haven’t done some detailing on the car for a bit, been too busy! At least it’s another thing to keep on the list when I find myself having a free weekend.

Hope everybody is well!

Wow, that is a lot about her. How is your detachment coming along?

[AnotherStander]

Gym is going well. I’m going about five times a week, and have also been doing a 20min abs workout at home every day for the past 15 days or so. Seeing some real progress now.

Work is fine - at home of course. Been given a small pay rise recently which was welcome. Studying is good; first exam in a fortnight. I’m passing the mock exams so far which is encouraging.

Excellent! Sounds like things are going great!

He stuck up for me and said how well I was doing at the gym, working, more confidence, new hobbies like the YT channel etc. He said XW seemed annoyed that I’d ‘made an effort’.

Great, that's exactly what should be getting back to her. News about how awesome you're doing. As for her being annoyed, of course she is. She wants to hear that you are balled up in the corner of a room rocking and weeping uncontrollably over losing the greatness that is her. To hear that you seem to be doing great, probably while she is doing not-so-great, well it's not what she wants to hear. HER PROBLEM!

However, he is essentially very similar to me, which is interesting (same hair, same build, plays the same instrument, similar age).

Have you read the Married Man Sex Life Primer? One of the topics he goes into is how we all have a "type". I like shorter women with curvy figures and sweet personalities. I have a buddy that favors women around 6' tall with some meat on their bones and sassy attitudes. If you attract someone enough to end up in a LTR with them then it's a safe bet that you are their "type" and it's very common that after a breakup that they pursue someone similar. Anyway the book makes an interesting point that after a breakup you still have a leg up on the competition because she already knows that you are her type. I think that's why so many WAS's end up pinging their exes way down the road. Dating is really hard to begin with, but going through all the random choices out there AND finding that someone that ticks all your boxes? Extremely difficult. So inevitably they circle back around to the person they already know is their type.

Anyway, let’s get back on track. I feel life is very good. I feel very healthy. Watching what I’m eating. Getting much better sleep, around eight hours a night now. Skin and complexion looks better. I’m making more effort to dress better even if I don’t leave the house, as I have a better opinion about myself.

Awesome, keep it up!

[BL42]

DaB35,

Gym is going well. I’m going about five times a week, and have also been doing a 20min abs workout at home every day for the past 15 days or so. Seeing some real progress now.

Work is fine - at home of course. Been given a small pay rise recently which was welcome. Studying is good; first exam in a fortnight. I’m passing the mock exams so far which is encouraging.

Great update! Glad to hear it.

My best friend said he went to see XW as she wanted him to put up some lights and shelves in her new flat. He said somehow I got brought up in the conversation. He stuck up for me and said how well I was doing at the gym, working, more confidence, new hobbies like the YT channel etc. He said XW seemed annoyed that I’d ‘made an effort’. I wonder if she was actually annoyed because her friends and sister would’ve said things like “He’ll never change” or “He won’t take it seriously” constantly throughout S and after the D, when in fact I’ve done the complete opposite of that, without any influence from her or them.

Why is your best friend visiting your XW and helping her around the house? Is it just me, or does that seem odd to anyone else? I wouldn't appreciate my close friends going to visit/hang out with my ex.