I know you have accomplished much on your own. And yes, your legal situation has more than it’s fair share of nonstandard participants - judge, lawyers (both sides), H.
My learnings, regarding MLC, from my brief journey through the legal process - It doesn’t matter!
XW has the right to be angry, irrational, and upset, and so does H. People get to choose what they want to do. Even if we, or specifically their lawyer thinks it is not in their best interests, they have the right to do it. They are adults.
All that matters is what they are willing to sign or not sign. Individuals can give up their rights, custody, house, cars, money, property, whatever; the legal system, lawyers and judges, just ensure it is fair. The fairness is ensuring that the person was not coerced into it, understands what their rights are, and what they are doing. Fairness is informing them and then upholding their right to choose. This is not the same as moral fairness, which requires a much wiser judge than can be found on this earthly plane.
An insane person cannot negotiate or sign these agreements. However, MLCers are not insane, they are irrational; angry, depressed, in denial, projecting, justifying, pretending their lives are great, and doing anything and everything to maintain that facade. That can include signing legal agreements. Or not signing or negotiating all while wasting the court’s time. Unfortunately, H is in the latter category, and racking up quite a bill.
And negotiating with an irrational person is a minefield at best. You cannot just deal with H as an angry man who still has self preservation instincts that will slow his madness of spending money and realize the futility of this course. He is in MLC, and it doesn’t matter in this arena. Legal fairness matters. That’s all. It’s the rules of the arena.
How do you negotiate with a ping pong ball person? It’s like herding cats. It’s very difficult and take finesse. Some lucky breaks would be nice too.
The courts have ordered a “real” appraisal of you house. That is a good thing. A good step. H will have to “sign”, will have to agree to the house’s value now. This is a basis for crafting a more reasonable buy out of him, rather than his fantasy amount. If possible, let H and his L adjust their “idea” to the reality of the housing market, and if reasonable, jump on it.
That was the most interesting piece I found within this process. One side drafts a deal. Signs it, and sends it over to the other side. If the other side accepts it, and signs - that’s it. It goes to a judge to ensure both lawyers did their jobs and fairness was observed and the agreement becomes legal. Poof.
If the receiving party does not agree, they usually modify or craft a new offer and send back a signed one. And the ball is in the other’s court. For me there was only one returned volley. I would not agree to her demand for me to charge her with adultery. I took that stipulation out, increased the lump sum pay out amount, signed it, and my L sent the modified agreement back. After a few weeks, and several lawyer forced visits in which XW has to see two different financial planners, she signed the agreement and a waiver clearly stating that she was going against her lawyer’s advice. Poof. Done. Fairness ensured. MLC doesn’t matter in the business side of this mess.
You can herd cats, it just requires the cat to believe they want to go that way. Or adjusting the path to follow the cat’s meandering. Probably a little/lot of both.
Wow. Nanaimo bars and seeking construction/handyman advice. How can I refuse? Like a moth to a flame.
Mice getting into homes and buildings is a problem, and once they have a pathway they do keep it open. They are mice, they don’t have much else to do but chew and root around all day.
Spray foam does quickly and effectively filling it the crevasse, expanding to all corners and sealing it well. It is also an excellent insulation providing a good R value, and of course stopping the wind from just blowing in, along with wondering mice. However, spray foam is, well, mostly air, and mice chew that “air” extremely quickly, for it is just gas encapsulated within foam.
Use some steel wool. Mice cannot chew through steel. Install, shove, some steel wool into the tunnel and then fill it up with spray foam. Have the steel wool close to the external side will be best, the mice will chew until they meet the mesh of fine steel strands. You want the mice prevented from entering, you can trap and/or poison the ones already within the building. So shove in a ball of steel wool from outside and spray fill the tunnel from the inside.
Structurally Insulated Panels are a good and relatively easy modification/upgrade to seal and insulated the roof (or walls, or floor). Installation is overtop of the existing interior vaulted ceiling so the internal decor atmosphere is maintained; rather important for a log cabin style home.
The problem, it sounds like, is the no air space. Log cabins and other buildings with vaulted ceiling have no attic, no air space between the insulation and the external weatherproofing material, i.e. the shingles. That causes the vapour problem. This is really a concern with no closed cell insulation, like fibreglass and such. The utilization of closed cell insulation, like the pink styrofoam insulation panels (usually come in 2’x8’ sheets and are easily cut to fit whatever they need to be) alleviates that concern.
First things first. The R-factor needs to be high enough to keep the cold out. Which is actually retaining the heat in; it is reducing the flow of heat energy. This just means you require a thick enough layer of insulation. You need to heat the living space enough to balance the loss of heat through the insulation. That pink styrofoam has a higher r-value per inch than fibreglass, so you can use less material. For example a 8 inch thick vs a 12 inch thick roof.
The next thing is the dew point, and that vapour problem. Without a dead air space above the insulation; which is vented to the atmosphere; and moisture builds. The dew point will be somewhere within the insulation, unless the insulation is too thin in which case the dew point ends up within the dwelling, which is indicative of frost on the interior surface of the ceilings or walls. It’s the reason windows frost up as well, although air flow is usually designed to most times prevent this except during very close periods.
When the dew point is within open cell insulation (fibreglass) that is where the moisture will freeze/than and accumulate. A vapour barrier helps, but without an above insulation vented air space, the moisture cannot escape and eventually pools within the insulation and drips and flows into the living area. (That was version 1 of my attic, kids’ playroom I built)
Using close cell insulation; or ensuring the dew point is located within close cell insulation if one used both types; does not allow for moisture accumulation, because air cannot flow to that point. (That was version 2 ).
SIP should be manufactured with closed cell insulation and engineered with proper depth to provide the required r-value for minimal heat transfer and comfortable living area. This will lower the heating bill and provide a stable comfortable environment both winter and summer.
Heat plays a big part of this scenario as well. Propane heaters, especially older one, pump out a rather high amount of humidity. They create more of a moisture problem in the closed months. Of course you do not want a too dry of a house, especially with wood work. The wood needs moisture to prevent cracking and splitting, and a log house has a lot of wood. Even regular dwellings have a fair bit of wood, with all the trim, doors, cupboards, etc. So moisture content is important.
Hearing radiant heat, and I think of the microwave radiating type in which the heater heats you and not the air. The hot water piped system is of course radiating heat energy and will heat everything within the environment. This radiating does require time and does not react quickly to changes within the environment. It is a set it and forget it type system and takes a while to find the right balance; for a gal un-garbing and re-garbing herself 9000 times a day, it might not work so well. This kind of heating system is what is in the building I work in, and there is no end of complaints, cold spots, hot spots, etc.
An on-demand water heater would not be a good fit either. And truthful a boiler is better suited, depending upon the size of the place. A typical domestic water heater is about 3000 W, the big ones are 4500W. 3000W is one element on your stove. Imagine trying to heat your entire house with just that one element. That is all the heat the water heater could produce and put into the liquid within the pipes in the floor. That “hot”, well like warm liquid, circulates and radiates heat outward into the room. The piping is installed under the floor, which mean the floor has to heat up first. The floor boards heat the flooring (carpet, tiles, whatever), which then radiate heat to the air, which then radiates heat to the furniture, you, the walls, the ceiling, etc. As you can see lots of energy transfer, which means lots of losses.
These loses are just heat, but it prevents the heat getting to where you want it. Not to mention the lack of source energy, that 3000W element, the minimal heat will be dissipated from the transfer piping rather quickly. Rooms and areas further downstream will receive very little heat, ever.
The converse of all that is just as problematic. Once the cabin is sufficiently heated up enough the water heater/boiler shuts off. Yet the liquid is still hot. The floorboards, flooring, carpet, and such continue to radiate heat long after the thermostat has reached the desired temperature.
A reasonable sized house requires around 15-25kW of heat. That’s 15000 to 25000 watts of heat. That can be from individual propane heaters, the baseboards we discussed long ago, or a single air-forced furnace. A geothermal component is the source energy of say a force air furnace. The beauty part is the low input energy required to extract the output energy from the geothermal heat source. They are very high efficiency.
Propane heaters are poor efficiency, and considering the humidity issues, not a recommended solution. They are utilized when electrical service are small or none existent, and it is cost prohibitive to upgrade or build a new electrical service.
Baseboards provide easy, air sensing thermostatically controlled, quick responding, heating for individual room. They do not provide any humidity, which is usually not a problem for the opening and closing of outer door is usually more than sufficient to provide fresh air and maintain humidity levels. These are inexpensive and easy to install.
Hot water radiating heat is more money. If one wants individual room control, zoning controls add to the complexity and the cost. There are not filled with water, it is glycol or similar antifreeze-type liquid. They do leak and require maintenance. It is nice to walk across a cosy warm floor in bare feet, which can be obtained by other means and better insulation. Of course better insulation lowers input energy costs, which offsets the upfront cost of upgrading insulation (those SIPs).
Fan-force heating provides air flow and circulates the heat rather radiate and convection alone. This keeps humidity under control and usually is a better living environment, temperature-wise. The air flow keep windows less fogged up as well. If one does not have the duct work, this can be a big undertaking.
My house originally had a boiler and radiators in each room. When I purchased it that system was not functioning and in very bad shape. I removed all that and installed ductwork, from basement through all three floors. No easy feat. The walls could not accommodate a duct for the required airflow so the duct work was surface mounted and then built in to a corner closet. A forced-air furnace was installed, and later geothermal.
Along with that, I insulated the attic (no air space ceiling) with closed cell styrofoam to R-50 or R-60. New windows and doors replaced the old leaky ones. My entire house is comfortable and there are no cold or hot spots.
My vision of your cabin is such that ductwork is probably not a viable option. I would lean towards baseboard heaters and forego hot water radiant heat. If duct work exists, or could be easily installed, fan-forced would be really nice. Especially with geothermal pumps.
No matter what option you choose, if you do not insulate you are pouring money to the outside. The SID upgrade or other roof repair/insulating sounds like it is needed. I suspect a ground level insulation upgrade would be beneficial as well.
Nanaimo bars and a mountain cabin is rather alluring to a hungry handyman.
Have a great day Gerda.
D
Last edited by DnJ; 09/20/2005:15 PM.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
1. Read DnJ's post three times to understand it all. 2. After second reading, watch several youtube videos and gain further knowledge. 3. Third reading, beginning to get it but am wondering if you mean, or could mean, a mini split ductless heat exchange unit. From what you said to quash my DIY radiant floor idea, plus what I just researched instead of cleaning up this messy house, that seems like my best bet. I can't afford the ground one but I might be able to do the air one if they offer a payment plan.
If you want to see the three that seemed most relevant, one was called, "How to Insulate a Cabin Roof and Floor" by bailey line. And one was not on youtube but was a website called ecohome and had an article by some university eco institute in your neck of the woods, I think. And one was called Roof Insulation Vented by protrade and really showed the exact process but was a stick frame, not log, so it seemed to leave some stuff I need to know out.
But what do you think of the minisplit system?
Watching these videos I am astonished that I have gone so long without proper insulation. No wonder it's freezing up there! What the heck was I thinking?
Well, I had a little on my mind I guess.
It seems like I should do the roof before I do anything.
But then what do you think of the mini split and going electric with the idea that I will eventually have some solar panels to spin meter backwards?
Also I have a woodstove but I usually keep the heat on at a very low level, like 55, when I am not there, in case of pipes. So I wasn't sure about all this other stuff, though if I move the kitchen as planned (it's not much of a kitchen, only moving the sink is a big deal) so that it's over the basement, the pipes would be running under the house anymore, so maybe no more risk of freezing.
(One day I want to refinish the basement, but that's another tray of brownies.)
About the SIP's, after watching the above videos, I saw that the guy recommended these other things that were kind of like SIP's but less unweildy and costly but with way less R value, though admittedly way more than the current R value of 0. Or -20 maybe. Seems like putting SIP's over my current set up will require a crane and a serious crew but maybe it will be so airtight that it will be worth it?
I still don't totally understand the vapor barrier stuff you are discussing and about which I was reading. The first and third video seemed to give a list of what to use and when/where that made sense but I wasn't sure if you would agree based on what you wrote.
I see you have already polished off the Naimmoonnooomemifeefifofum bars. Would you like some meatloaf and mashed potatoes for this round? We have a lot of work to do today.
Last edited by Gerda; 09/21/2001:05 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
P.S. Equally useful was the first part, about court. Some excellent reminders.
About drafting agreements -- indeed. A signature is all we need. One of my exhibits in my papers was "Settlement Attempts Since July, 2018." I was using that exhibit to refute his assertion that I have delayed this process or in some way prevented a resolution. There were literally over a dozen settlement offers, some direct to H, some through friends, family, two sent to that guy who was funding H's lawyer, one to that guy's wife! One was an entire powerpoint laying out a very simple and clear buy out timeline. Good times.
But as you say, an appraisal may help. We did have the appraisal he didn't believe last year but it will be harder for him to get around this one.
I just can't believe the H I knew became this. And he is not insane in a way. But I do not think he is just irrational. One friend of ours saw him last year, before he moved out, after not seeing him for four or five years. She is not a doctor but is in a healing profession and had known us only as a couple, for almost twenty years. He hung out with us awkwardly before going out for the evening. Once he had left the room, she turned to me with grave concern and told me that she felt he needed immediate care in a mental hospital.
I think we both have spouses who are battling mental illness. I know that doesn't qualify as insane by the standard you describe. But I don't think it's regular MLC either.
Hey, quit hogging the peach pie. And please add a dollop of whipped cream to mine.
(I just opened my jeans drawer after not wearing those since March as it has been chilly here the past few days. And I could not button my favorite pair. I am trying to care enough not to eat more pie. But I might not care enough.)
Last edited by Gerda; 09/21/2001:39 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
P.P.S. to DnJ -- I have continued to do Dr. DnJ's homework. Much research and no roofing company payment plans later, I am thinking heat pump starting with one room for now and temporary insulation on ceilings where I can do it. I found a DIY where someone covered foam boards with fabric and it was almost cute, plus very easy to put up quickly. This will not reach an R value of DnJ's house but will be a zillion times better than the current nothing. By fall 2021, I should be able to do it properly with insulation added to outside before putting on new roof and then I can phase out more propane heaters and add more mini splits. Do you approve? And if so, do I need to put strips along the ceiling and nail the boards to those so that there is a little air between board and ceiling or can I nail it directly to ceiling (wood planks). It is not going to be air tight so does this mean I don't have to worry about moisture building up between boards and ceiling? And I will pull it out for the summer and only reinstall in the fall if I can't redo the real roof with proper insulation by then.
The latest problem is a mouse infestation. Can't figure out where they are coming from but I had to have the yard dug up to pump the septic so I thought that might be why? It's log so they don't seem to be nesting in the house, just getting in.
This is our new youtube channel. It's called, "In the Woods with DnJ and Gerda." You show our viewers how to build and fix stuff and I offer design tips and keep everyone entertained. I used to have an employee at my old business who liked to watch me interact with customers. He'd turn to the other staff members and say with his kind of mafia accent, "Look at 'er. She's workin da room."
Last edited by Gerda; 09/23/2004:19 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
The ductless split heating/cooling units are excellent. I use these in many of our buildings at work. They provide good heat and cooling with minimal disruption to the interior of the room. In my case, we need to have more cooling with the added electrical equipment being installed and there is no room for ducts.
Temporary insulation will be a good idea, especially since the cabin sounds like it has nothing. Do you use this cabin year around? Or plan to? Or is it more spring, summer, fall type thing?
Styrofoam panels decorated with fabric can be attached directly to the ceiling. This is temporary and your plans to insulated outside and install a new roof will return the interior to normal. I am assuming the interior is finished and you do want it to remain as it looks as much as possible.
You mention a basement. Is it a crawl space or a full basement? Is it heated?
The floor is probably cold in the cool months. Insulating between the floor joists is the usual solution. However, if the basement is a full standing basement or you have future plans to utilize it, for storage or living space, insulated the basement walls.
I am guessing the basement is unfinished, so it would be relatively easy to attach 2x6 studs to the wall and install closed cell insulation. This standard placement of wall stud accommodates the insulation and provides proper straight forward spacing for the finished wall material.
The basement floor itself could be built up one layer of styrofoam thick with a subfloor installed and you would be comfy cosy.
As for mice, yeah they are a pest. Remember metal, they don’t chew through that. Steel wool in the mouse holes.
I installed roofing metal, 2 1/2 feet heigh around the perimeter of my house at ground level. This barrier keeps the mice out. A few still find a way in; they are rather industrious it seems. These are easily trapped. Ah living in the country.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Styrofoam panels decorated with fabric can be attached directly to the ceiling. This is temporary and your plans to insulated outside and install a new roof will return the interior to normal. I am assuming the interior is finished and you do want it to remain as it looks as much as possible.
My parents did this in our old farm house in part for noise reduction. They used strips of wood paneling over the seams to create a "look" and to also provide structural support to hold the panels up. It actually worked decently and was up for probably 30 years. Nothing like a temporary fix to create permanence.
As an aside, the mice loved squeezing into the space between these panels and the ceiling and running around. This is the time of the year here that they little @#$ come into the house through my basement to escape the oncoming winter. I've found that they are attracted to sources of water like my sump and I leave poison out for them there
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Andrew, I was quite honored to have earned a visit from you!!! And I spent a long while thinking about how cool your parents farm house must have been, and therefore how cool they must be. But the mice behind the panels sure gave me pause!
I also visited your thread as a result of you visiting mine and realized I had missed quite a few chapters. I don't know about this lady in your life, I wasn't following for a while, but I will say this-- a lot of us ended up in our MLC mess because we thought this was how things were, or that we shouldn't trust our guts. I think we have to start trusting our guts. Hurting someone is painful, and I am very sorry for her if she loves you and will be hurt. But for myself I have found that part of my healing was learning to trust my gut. If I had done that long ago, I would not have married my H to begin with. (I don't regret it exactly, glad for my kids and how this brought me to faith. But I can see that I didn't trust my gut, and that I still struggle to.)
Meanwhile, DnJ, I did study this last post from you and did a bunch of research, found a company called Alpine something or other and had a long call with them to get all the skinny. I think I am gonna get one unit for two of the bedrooms to start and do the temporary insulation and see how it goes. I am in a race against the clock, as my current renters leave soon and I have just one weekend before the next ones come to try to do everything. And my beekeper friend told me that the bees are packing the hive with propolis, which means BAD WINTER COMING.
Yes, I use the cabin all year. Folks rent it all year, as it is gorgeous there in every season and we are near decent skiing, at least by the standards of my state.
You assume that the interior is finished. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OK, well I guess so, in a rustic cabin way. I sure wish I could show you some photos!
Basement -- we -- wait a second -- I! I! Just me! I have a real basement under the bedrooms and then under the main living space it is a crawl space and was supposedly insulated when we put in a foundation but I don't know how well they did it. Basement is not heated, but I want to make this basement a living space, it is otherwise the stupidest waste of money and represents some very bad decisions from my past with H. (We put it in, that was before my years of reading about houses and eco stuff.) So that is my next question -- it is very damp down there, and freezing. It doesn't freeze actually but it's cold. I have my washer/dryer down there too. One side is wet, the side that is more underground with no window. The other side faces a slope and that side I could dig out a little and either have a walk-out or a much bigger window than the current tiny ones.
I want to start by getting a dehumidifier, and I want to order it this week, so I need your advice! (And Andrew or anyone else who wants to chime in!) What should i buy? I want something that doesn't require a lot of attention because I have renters there a lot of the time. I want the basement to be dry so I can store stuff down there without it getting moldy -- right now I can't even store wood down there. And then once I get it more dry, I can start thinking about working on turning it into a living space with heat. I don't think I can think of insulating the walls til it's dry, right? I can't even put up framing down there, it will mold, won't it? Likewise a subfloor. I want to do this but I need to address the dampness. So can you give me a DnJ tutorial? I can post it on our youtube channel and we can monetize it.
roofing metal around your house? Doesn't that look kinda... not charming? Or what do you mean?
Last edited by Gerda; 10/12/2002:25 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
If you have a damp basement a dehumidifier will not be up to the task. If the dampness is caused by something you brought in, like a year's supply of firewood then yes, it can help.
I would expect that the moisture is actually coming up from below and the only "right" answer is to dig down, put in drainage tile and then the slab would need to be sealed for moisture as well. Not a small job. What can also be done and was a job that my son had for a few years is to put in a perimeter drain out the outside of the foundation and then waterproof the foundation from the outside. Less chaos to the interior and no matter which route, time consuming and expensive.
A key issue with moisture in a space is ventilation. If you are committed to having this be a livable / usable space then that's problematic. Crawl spaces were common on most builds though. If you were to insulate the underside of the main floor and then open up the space to cross-breezes then your mold problem would probably get reduced at least but then it wouldn't be usable for anything other than storage of items that can take the cold and a bit of damp.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Lol. The metal roofing around my house does look rather charming. The roofing I used on my house is 32 inch high rib metal sheets cut to whatever lengthen you need, and come in all kinds of colours. The bricks of my house are sand yellow, which are made from the local sand. The roof is red. The granite stone foundation rises out of the ground two and a half feet. I built a 2x4 frame, on the flat edge so it’s only 2” thick, placed a 2’x8’ sheet of pink styrofoam insulation between the top and bottom rails, and covered with dark gray metal roofing. The top edge of the metal has 45 degree flashing that seals it to the yellow bricks. The bottom of the metal is buried into the ground around 4 inches or so.
I also built a deck which is at the height of the doors, no step into the house, Dad’s in a wheelchair after all. This height is the same as the stone foundation so the metal is mostly unseen, and unmaintained; thus metal roofing instead of something more charming. No painting, no mice chewing through.
The deck wraps around the entire house, aside from the carport. It’s is on average around 15-20 feet wide, with the longest side around 80 feet. There are five sets of stairs and one 3’x6’ hydraulically operated lift/elevator platform for a wheel chair, instead of a ramp. That lift has been quite handy for heavy items I don’t want to carry up the stairs to deck level.
Ah, yes, it would be nice to share a picture. I’ll try to keep my post to one or two thousand words; a picture or two.
On to your cabin.
Originally Posted by Gerda
Basement -- we -- wait a second -- I! I! Just me!
Perfect!
Feels kind of weird, doesn’t it? For 30+ years everything has been we, us, and our’s. Me, my, I - I haven’t been this self centred for a long time. Lol.
Originally Posted by Gerda
I have a real basement under the bedrooms and then under the main living space it is a crawl space and was supposedly insulated when we put in a foundation but I don't know how well they did it. Basement is not heated, but I want to make this basement a living space...
Originally Posted by Gerda
I think I am gonna get one unit for two of the bedrooms to start and do the temporary insulation and see how it goes.
Originally Posted by Gerda
it is very damp down there, and freezing. It doesn't freeze actually but it's cold. I have my washer/dryer down there too. One side is wet, the side that is more underground with no window.
Originally Posted by Gerda
I want to start by getting a dehumidifier, and I want to order it this week, so I need your advice!
Moisture in a basement is pretty common. Especially an unused or un-lived in one. Once it is a more living space, with heat, the moisture problem will lessen and a dehumidifier will work just fine.
Question for you. Do you have a floor drain in the basement? I am going to guess probably yes, the washer and dryer are in the basement after all. I am also guessing the dryer is vented outside, if not vent it to the outside; lots of moisture from dryer exhaust. Some have used the exhaust air as a heat source, but when a moisture problem already exists, not a great idea.
Let’s fix the moisture. Yes, buy a dehumidifier and get it running right now. My basement is the entire house and a full basement with no windows. It has three foot thick granite foundation walls and a concrete floor. It was very damp.
I bought a dehumidifier from the hardware store. The largest portable unit I could get. It is regular extension cord plug in - 115V. These work really well. Set your desired humidity level, around 50%, and it will run as needed. Mine basically never shuts off, during the more humid months. My basement is nice and dry. The dried out air will mix and swirl with the moist air; all the way into the crawl space. My storage pantry type room, is in the other side of the basement from the floor drain and dehumidifier. There are two walls in between, creating three separate areas in the basement, and the storage room is dried out from the dehumidifier. My dehumidifier is basically next to the west wall and affects the entire 1500 square foot basement.
Dehumidifier: Go to the local hardware store and buy your dehumidifier and get it going. Buy a dehumidifier with a optional drain hose attachment; usually a garden hose which can be cut to length. The default is the built in bucket which requires daily dumping. The drain hose bypasses that and therefore the unit can run more unattended. Place the dehumidifier by the floor drain and run the hose to it. This work well and requires much less attention.
However, the air filter does get dirty and the hose can get plugged, so some maintenance is still required.
Heat: Yes. Heat your basement. This affects the humidity as well as comfort level. Warn air can hold more humidity. And by the way, the air does require a certain level of humidity for comfort and to keep the wood in the house healthy. Like I said, around 50% in the basement seems to be a good level, the rest of the house being affected and finding the correct balance. Showering, dishes, cooking, etc. all adding humidity.
For right now, today, place a portable heater in the basement as well as the dehumidifier. Not right next to it, but it can be close if you only have one electrical outlet. I am picturing the full height area of the basement is around 1000 or so square feet; a 115V 750/1500W ceramic fan forced heater would do nicely. Set it on 750W and set the temperature to 20C and let it run. If it cannot reasonable keep up due to no insulation set it on 1500W. This is just a temporary heating source until the basement is finished.
The bedroom heater and insulation sounds like it is the next item that needs to be addressed. I’ve something to suggest to you, now that I have a more complete picture:
Install a furnace in the basement, in the laundry room/utility room area that you will be designing. Run ducts along the basement ceiling and put floor vents into the bedrooms and other main floor rooms - one or two hot air vents and one cold air return to each room. I’ve found placing the hot air vent under the window keeps them mostly frost free and we don’t place furniture in front of windows (that would defeat the purpose of a window) so the vent is always clear.
The ceiling run basement duct work will also provide heat for your basement and needed air circulation for entire cabin. Install ceiling hot air and cold air vents in the various basement rooms and areas. This will also help (a lot) with the humidity. Air quality will be better, comfort, etc... through out the entire cabin, including the crawl space.
With a full basement under the two bedrooms, and plans (or a wish) to turn the basement into a living space, a fan forced furnace is a great investment. Cost-wise it is probably the same as doing the room individually, maybe even less. The upside and benefits are much higher. Along with future considerations like central air conditioning.
Cutting a few floor vent into the main floor rooms and tying them into a duct system is pretty quick, especially with an empty basement. In days you could have central heat and air flow throughout the cabin. The wall mounted heater would be removed and provide extra wall space for other comforts of home. And less noise, the whisper quiet fan is in the basement.
Install the temporary bedroom insulation and remove the now extraneous heaters.
Basement insulation: Frame the outside basement walls using 2x4’s or 2x6’s depending on how much insulation you would like. My suggestion, taking into consideration your eco-sense and the fact that you want a livable space, use 2x6’s and pink styrofoam insulation. Remember the previous dew point conversation, utilize styrofoam and prevent the freeze/thaw point from happening within an open cell insulation material.
Install the electrical outlet boxes you want and need. Run the wiring. Staple up a vapour barrier on the 2x6 studs.
Basement walls: Design your living space (done before now actually so you know where to run the duct work and stuff) and build the interior walls. Laundry room, utility room, living room or whatever. Run the electrical throughout the basement.
Basement floor: There is a nice subfloor product that is click together squares of plywood with rubber feet on the underside. This provides a gap from the concrete floor so the plywood doesn’t rot, and a nice flat smooth floor to install the finish flooring upon.
Basement ceiling: Given it is a basement the height is most likely not that great. The duct work may have had to been run along a wall edge and boxed in, unless a dropped ceiling is possible. No big deal. Box in the duct work.
Finished product: Install ceiling tiles, wall material, and flooring. Add the couch and large screen TV, put on Lord of Rings and invite DnJ over.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
OMG you guys rock! I wish all handymen were as speedy in replying and planning (and execution) as you two!
I have a lot of reading material here. I have skimmed and so far I am freaking out that you want me to go back to dirty fuel with a furnace after our minisplit victory. But I will read over again. I am very excited for the portrait you have painted of a finished, cozy house. (Cut to two years later until I actually do it all.)
Meanwhile in preparation for the basement movie party -- this week in one of my courses I am teaching C.S. Lewis' "The Inner Ring." I use it with the movie 8-Mile, if you can believe it! But I think you will really like the essay, just google it with "full text" and you can find it easily. CS Lewis and Tolkien were close friends, you probably know that; and I often wonder if the idea of the ring as representative of the evil in unfettered will came from that essay. In a certain way it describes what happened to our MLCers.
Hugs to you both for taking so much time to help with my projects.
Did I tell you that I had to fix a sink at my rental in the city? I watched a bunch of youtube videos, bought a pipe cutter and installed the new pipes with trap and everything myself! Granted, it was still a little funky and my friend's husband had to facetime me a little and direct how to seal it with some repair tape, but for the first time in a year the sink isn't leaking!
Last edited by Gerda; 10/12/2005:00 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
