Through The Storm IV

[IronWill]

Hi KG -

I agree with Yail, you sound like you have evened out and are taking a pragmatic approach to all of this.

If you felt that you had to try, then you did what was best for you at the time. I know its frustrating, but the only way through is through. Now you know.

This thing with AP has to play out. Yes, it [censored]. But you don't have to be a part of that.

I think it would be best to stay out of WW's head. Detachment is possible - the best way to start is to just start. At first it is very counter to what you would think, but you will get the hang of it.

Remember that detachment is for you. Let WW deal with her chaos. Her actions with AP have shown where she wants to be. Those are her choices. And there will be consequences to those choices later.

Fortunately all you have to do to protect yourself is figure out how to remove yourself from that drama. You don't have to be mean or rude or fight. It is possible to be kind and compassionate and also firm.

Take care Kristin - stay strong

[KristinG]

KG,
Is she loving you the way you want to be loved? Is she fulfilling your needs? Are you happy? If the answer is no to any of these questions then step away. I know it is easier said then done. I am still here as well. But the last thing in the world you want is to wake up 10 years from now and find yourself in the same sitch still hoping that it will improve. Days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months and months turn into years.

Nice to meet you Mar. I read through your sitch today and will respond soon with my thoughts/suggestions. I know how helpful it is to feel like you have someone that has similar life experiences (lgbtq) and I would love to be of some comfort. The answer to the first two questions is undoubtedly "no". I am happy with my life in general. I am very blessed and things could be far worse. I have relatively good health, a good job that I love, and a wonderful family. Things could be MUCH worse and, for that, I'm thankful. But is she loving me the way I want to be loved or fulfilling my needs in a partner? No.

BIG ((May))

I am sorry you've been through a crazy rollercoaster this whole year. Glad you are holding it together and doing things JUST for you. I love the idea of ordering takeout from a place that H doesn't usually like but is your fave. I am always very accommodating but I'm going to have to do that very soon. To answer your question, no, I'm not in IC. Due to COVID my IC is doing virtual only and I hate virtual meetings so I'm waiting it out. It's not terrible though because I really feel that I am in a much more stable place than when I was going.

It's funny May, I know the vets would say that we haven't made our WS work hard enough to get back in. They are absolutely correct. I don't know that I could or would change anything I've done in my journey and I really feel like I have been true to myself the entire time. BUT, I do think if I had walked away initially things *might* be different. At this moment in time, I am feeling like I want more for myself than a partner that doesn't know the value I bring to the table. This feeling is growing within my heart and I find myself day dreaming about a peaceful future without all the rejection. I am feeling more at peace with being alone than remaining with a WW that doesn't love me. I want her to find happiness and peace as well and I don't know if either one of us will ever find that in our marriage again. I don't want a D, but it's looking better than the alternative that we're currently living.


Hey Yail! I hear you're creating a travel buddy group - I'm in! And yes, the savings account is a joint account. I don't see her being unfair about the financial situation, but I also never expected to wake up one day and find our marriage here. It burns in my chest when I think about making the decision to D. She is, or was, the person I want to wake up with every day and share a life with. We've both changed so much since this all began, sometimes I don't recognize her and she feels like a stranger. In fact, that might be the most painful part about the current sitch. I don't know if we've been that distant since the start of everything and maybe I just couldn't see it because I was trying so hard to fix it? Either way, it stings that any interaction with the one I love feels cold when it used to be so warm and comforting.


KG

[may22]

It's funny May, I know the vets would say that we haven't made our WS work hard enough to get back in. They are absolutely correct. I don't know that I could or would change anything I've done in my journey and I really feel like I have been true to myself the entire time.

Something I've noticed with the situations here is that the LBSs need to get to where they need to be authentically. Sometimes you need to have tried and tested every possible option before you're ready to take that next step. I totally believe this. I need to know in my soul that I'm doing the right thing if I opt for S or D. I also don't regret the choices I've made to date. I think it is so important to feel like you're being true to yourself-- in the end, that is what matters, not what anyone else thinks.

I'm glad you're feeling peace and stability within yourself. Hope you keep updating here at least every once in awhile!

((KG))

[KristinG]

Working towards have a D discussion this week or next. I don't want this, but I also am tired of standing for someone who is treating me like garbage and the only way I can see to stop allowing the treatment is to S/D.

This is going to be a bit of a rant:

Ww had a bad mood this past weekend when we had several close friends over for a football game. I didn't say two words to her the whole evening and just hung out with other groups. I knew after everyone left she would initiate an R talk and, truthfully, I just didn't want to sit and hear ILYB cycles for an hour. I even told a few friends I was trying to head to bed before everyone leaves because of this. Of course, she caught me right as I was saying goodbye and goodnight and asked to talk for few. I listened and validated the best that I could. She tried to offer a compromise of S in which she would move into our old apartment (I still have it after buying the house). Her plan was that we would take turns living there and staying separated to work on ourselves. I told her I wasn't leaving the house and there would be no compromise unless she could make a commitment with transparency to end all contact with AP. She said that she could not and would not do that. I told her that the only offer would be for us to D given that she won't honor my feelings and that it is a boundary for me. I also said that she could move into the apartment with full S and still talk to AP all she wanted but that I would be moving forward and possibly filing for D. She asked what that would look like and I explained possible solutions for splitting up assets. She began to get angry/upset and I told her we could talk about all of this another day. I went to bed. WW started going through the house yelling about how I needed to be gone the next day and take all of my things, this is her house, this is her dog, this is her room, etc. She kept coming into the bedroom and saying terrible, hurtful things, and for a time I was able to remain calm and ask her to please leave me alone. She kept pushing and pushing and I couldn't control the emotions anymore. We got into a screaming argument and she continued the verbal assault, spewing any venom she could think of. It was awful. I said some hurtful things too and called her some choice names, selfish cheating &$*@ among them. She finally relented and left me alone. Early the next morning she crawled into the MRB and apologized trying to cuddle up to me. The apology was sincere and nice to hear and I didn't have the strength to kick her out. She asked that we not talk about things and just have a relaxing day.

I have not initiated a D discussion yet and am trying to wrap my head around how to approach things. I am so tired of allowing her to have her cake. I also know that I am comfortable on my own, in my own space. I also know that regardless of whether she wakes up and realizes what she is losing, I do not want to allow AP in my life anymore. I do not want a WS that would so such hurtful things and could act so selfishly. If that means that we aren't together anymore, that is ok with me. My feelings have/are shifting from not wanting to lose her, to simply wanting more for myself with or without her. If she isn't the one to give me those things, I am sure I will heal. I can have those things on my own and possibly, in the future, with someone who earns it and values who I am. Heck, it could even be her. But in order for that to happen, she needs to work on her own yard and I don't see that happening while we are still together. Something has to change. Just some thoughts for the day.

I feel strong and happy in this new perspective of taking control of my own healing and happiness. No more waiting for her to help me heal (which I think is what I had been waiting for). May, I think you are still waiting for H to help you heal, too. I see a lot of myself in you and your personality. We're ferocious and brave when it comes to choosing our family and trying to put the pieces back, but at some point, we have to let the one that broke it fix it. It's my choice and my decision to make and I will feel at peace with any outcome.

KG

[Traveler]

Hi Kristin,

Hey there. I was glad to read your last few updates, because I've been wondering how you've been doing. I'm sorry the relationship hasn't improved. It's amazing how much patience and love you've shown her, even buying her childhood home, and it hasn't been enough for her to firmly choose one door or the other.

I'm glad you're finding the strength to end being treated this way, the strength to know you can be amazing on your own or with someone else. Such a long relationship--I get this isn't easy. It's easy in the abstract to say, "You shouldn't let yourself be treated that way", but so hard to let go of people we love.

[Yail]

KG, I'm so proud of you. No matter what hiccups you may encounter next, just remember this feeling of quiet confidence that you are portraying. You are absolutely correct that you deserve what is on the other side of this. Remember - you have a future that has NO AP in it!

I'm not going to lie - you're going to walk through a sh** storm with her. If she's screaming the second you took a bit of power for yourself it's not going to let up. Just keep looking forward and do exactly what you did last weekend: try your hardest to ignore when possible.

Please remember - do not make offers on how you can move forward until you speak with a lawyer. Please do so soon! It doesn't change your timeline or decisions, it only gives you information to ponder. That's all.

[Mar252]

((((KG))) Time to get off this emotional Roller Coaster. It's what I keep telling myself.

[KristinG]

Yail,

I agree with you entirely. Each time a D discussion has come up and I've stood my ground, she gets incredibly angry and emotional. I have informally spoken to a lawyer and I know that the best possible outcome is for us to figure out a peaceful resolution to the house. That is really the only major asset we own together. Everything else (debt, bank accounts, etc) don't amount to an excess. I don't think she would really want to hire an attorney to help with things because of the expense and partly because I have always handled any legal and all paperwork endeavors.

If you guys have any advice on how to start the convo with WW and initiate some form of peaceable negotiations that would be fantastic.

Right now, we live together mostly peacefully and (on the surface) treat each other as spouses. I am still trying to detach, but I'm having a hard time breaking off my wifely duties so to speak. I cook meals for us both and am still thoughtful and treat her as I always have. I have definitely gotten better about not initiating any form of touch or intimacy, but I don't push her away when she wants to cuddle either.

I'm nervous about the aftershock of this convo and what will happen to the dynamic in the home post discussion. Should I prepare to come home from work and spend my time in my bedroom and avoid her? Should I sit in the awkward tension of the living situation post discussion? I guess my wheels are just spinning because I know this is the right decision for me, but it is still so hard. I also hate that I'm having to be the one to pull the trigger.

My goals of the D discussion are to try and map out what we will do with the house and the living situation in the interim. I would love for her to get the house and buy me out. Do I offer to help her with this or tell her she has X days to apply for a refinance? I think it would be very difficult for her to be able to obtain financing. I could easily afford the house and would be approved. We could sell the house and split proceeds (after a huge tax) but it would put a strain on her mom as she still has an entire storage shed and a TON of things still in the house and on the property. Her mom wouldn't have anywhere to put these things at the moment. I would of course give her mom ample time to move them as opposed to a third party forcing her out immediately.

So many questions running through my head today and I'm just trying to prepare for what is to come.

KG

[Yail]

KG, my divorce was amicable, so I hope anything I have to say is helpful. It wasn't the same as your situation of course, so please take with a grain of salt.

Post-discussion: you do whatever you want. There is no "should". You live your life as normally as you can while still moving forward steadily.

*When you initiate the conversation do NO get drawn into an R talk. Sure, WW may be all over the map and not know what she wants and that can be valid. But you DO know what you want and that is just as valid. It's okay to remind her of this to keep her on track. "I understand it's a lot, but I do know this is the direction that I will be moving in".

*Be conscious of your needs vs wants. Don't cave to her to make it all "go away" but also don't hold on to things you really don't care much about. I think it's a big one for you to determine if you do or do not WANT the house. You seem ambivalent towards it. Will you feel stuck with it if you buy her out, or will it not bother you? It seems the best case is she can buy you out, because then she gets something very important to her and you can leave clean-slate.

*Instead of offering for her to buy you out, see what her first thoughts are. "Regarding the house, what are you wanting to do moving forward?" If she says she wants to buy you out that's great. But because it's her idea it will put her more at ease that she's getting something that she wants and you are amicable. This approach might calm the dragon. If she offers something you can't give, say so. "No, continuing to share living space and splitting costs won't work for me. I can't do this anymore. It will have to be only one of us or neither of us owning the house".

*Speaking of the house - you don't help her with this, and you don't get in her way. You don't do her legal or finance work. But, if you were to say, "If you would like to talk to ______(I dunno, someone at her bank)_____ let's give you the time to do that. What timeframe do you think is fair for that?"

*I would suggest not starting off with a timeline for her - not in the first convo. See where she takes it, and respond from there. You can be vague. "I'd like to have some of these decisions set as soon as reasonable".

*Immediate future: Can she rent from you? If you decide you'd like to leave the premise, can you have her pay the entire mortgage (not buying you out - yet) and have this in some kind of post-nup? Be sure it's all buttoned up legally. I rented from my XW for close to a year, and it worked well for us because she had moved out of state. She gave me a few months where she continued to pay as she did when we lived together - I think three months. She gave me warning and an agreement, "I don't want to be paying for this house forever, but I want you to have the time you need. I'll pay up until ____ and after that you pay the mortgage for staying here. I'd like to have it on the market by _______. Does that work?". It did.

*Do you have a place you can go and/or apartment options?

*Personal items: When you get to this point, I used Google Sheets and it worked great. Had a "want" "Might consider" and "don't want" columns. Each of us could access and enter furniture items we wanted or didn't want. Google Sheets allowed us each to easily access and we could see when changes were made. I found it a no-pressure way to get initial offers on the table. Anything that you both "want" is then negotiated.

I hope these few thoughts help.

[may22]

Hi KG,

(((KG))) I know this is so hard. But you do sound great. A few thoughts for you to leave or take:

Yail said-- you have a future in front of you with NO AP IN IT!!! That is so awesome and I would hold that as an f-ing beacon of light in front of you. This is another area where our sitches were different... the kids mean that I actually had a future in front of me with AP shoved down my throat every day for the next ten years. And on special occasions for the rest of my GD life. Whereas you have a gorgeous, clean, well-lit AP-free path in front of you. With birds singing and dappled sunlight. If your W isn't able to make that choice, then you can. You have the power.

Glad you spoke with a L. I agree with Yail that the more you can be open-ended and ask her what she wants, the better. She isn't going to take it well when you tell her she can't afford the mortgage... let her go out and do the work and figure it out for herself.

Of *course* she isn't going to like it when you go in this direction. She enjoys her cake quite a bit and you're taking it away. I would recommend spending some time on the Chump Lady website to fuel your resolve here, or buy the chump lady book. It will help quite a bit, I think. Your W is living in her delusion land that it is OK to have a wife and an AP and can only do that because she knows you're there for her no matter what. She clearly hasn't thought through all the financial implications of D... let her start to figure that all out herself. That isn't your job either.

Remember... this isn't your fault. This is hers. You have done everything humanly possible to save your M, and now it is time to move forward with grace and dignity. Keep your cool in these conversations.

I'm going to guess that in addition to the rages, you'll get some backtracking. Just be prepared for how you want to handle that. In my case, once my H got to the precipice of S-- had an apartment all lined up, we'd agreed in principle to all the splitting of finances and custody-- he decided he couldn't do it, that his relationship with AP wasn't worth Ding. At that point I made the choice to stand a little longer and time will tell if that was a worthwhile gamble. Given your W's behavior, the early morning cuddles and apologies and all the rest, I wouldn't be surprised if she makes a similar choice once she sees the stark reality of losing her house and losing you looks like.

My advice when that happens (which I didn't take for myself, but I'm going to blame on the key differences in our sitch) is to hold strong. You don't have to worry about how two little human beings feel about the D-- only about how YOU feel. And I hope you can bottle up that strength and power you're feeling right now so you can keep it dripping into your veins when the hard parts come. You deserve to be on the other side of this. You've given your W ample, ample opportunity to do it together. She can't. Now you need to do this for yourself.

Also, in the meantime... can you wean yourself away from the wifely duties etc while you amp yourself up for the convo? I would recommend after the convo you probably want to stay away from all wifely duties, so the more you can catch yourself now the better you'll do.

(((KG)))