Is it too far gone?

[rts4n]

I've also realized that when we were first together, I was much more confident and detached. In the recent years, I've turned back into my needy, pursuer default. I've been hyper aware of this this week and have made sure to be really conscious about how I'm acting around her. Maintaining this for the long term will be the real challenge though. This, regaining her trust, and each of use learning how to meet the other's emotional needs are the biggest challenges if I can get through the LRT phase.

I know the sex issue hits home for me. I find sex a bit dull and I know that it is in my head. I didn't have a ton of partners or one nighters but I've never gone more than a couple of years without a new, "fresh" partner in my mind. This isn't a big concern for you right now though.

This also really resonated for me, although I am the HL one in our relationship. My problem was turning to p**n and - it's hard to say but being addicted - and ignoring our SSM even when she wanted to talk about it. Even though I am HL, and probably because of my LT use of p**n, I also have not had a ton of partners or one-nighters and that has made it challenging for me to break out of the p**n cycle.

[Traveler]

My problem was turning to p**n and - it's hard to say but being addicted - and ignoring our SSM even when she wanted to talk about it. Even though I am HL, and probably because of my LT use of p**n, I also have not had a ton of partners or one-nighters and that has made it challenging for me to break out of the p**n cycle.

Hi Rts4n,

Using p**n when you could've been in the arms of your partner is certainly a vice, but self-satisfaction is good for you (when a partner is not available e.g. WAS) and better for health and reconciliation than "a ton of partners or one-nighters". Consider erotic literature as an alternative. What are you doing to break your compulsion--CBT therapy? A support group? Monitoring apps? I don't have personal experience with porn addiction/compulsion--some members here do. The sites I've Googled consistently say the least effective way to quit is to beat yourself up (guilt/shame) while trying to go cold turkey, which makes sense. If this is one of your 180s, I hope you're going full steam ahead to find a workable solution to break this vice.

[rts4n]

[quote=rts4n]Using p**n when you could've been in the arms of your partner is certainly a vice, but self-satisfaction is good for you (when a partner is not available e.g. WAS) and better for health and reconciliation than "a ton of partners or one-nighters". Consider erotic literature as an alternative.

Good point CWarrior. The lit is something I have looked into but not in a lot of depth. I am not trying to go cold turkey right now, but definitely trying to decrease frequency of use while also avoiding the shame - the shame is a big part of why it took me so long to come clean. And retrain my mind/body to not depend on it for satisfaction all the time. I know this won't be enough, but it's a start for now. This is a planned 180, so I still have a lot of work to do here.

[sandi2]

I won't speak for Ovrrnbw, but I'll respond to your question about pressure. For a woman who feels done with the MR, there are a number of things the H can do that causes her emotional pressure. Here are just a few:

1. Hoovering.
2. Trying to hug her, kiss her, put your hand anywhere on her body.
3. Asking questions about every little thing she does, where she goes, who she sees, etc.
4. Trying to manipulate a response by saying ILY. LBS's want to hear it back, but it is a form of pressure.
5. Pulling out the wedding pictures, trying to get her to look at them.
6. Talking about how parents will be disappointed, etc. If there are children, talking about how they will be affected.
7. Breaking down in front of her.
8. Contacting her throughout the day. Texting to see where she is and when she'll be home, etc.
9. Buy her gifts, or having flowers sent to her.
10. Have friends and family members try to persuade her to stay in the M.

Peacocking is where the H is trying to draw W's attention to his changes/improvements. His changes are just for show.

[rts4n]

Thanks for your response, Sandi. I have done a good job at most of those things, though I have been been guilty of 1 and 2. And I do need to make sure I’m not trying to “show off” any changes I am trying to make.

As a side note, I fortunately came across your rules a few days after the BD, and they prevented me from doing a lot more damage than I would have so thank you.

[sandi2]

Is there more you can share with us?

[rts4n]

I have been meaning to share more, so thanks for the prompt. Things have been calm and cordial. She has continued to work from her office, which has given us a good amount of space during the day. Because of the quarantine, we have been together in our apartment every day after work and all weekend. Her love language is quality time, so I have made it a point to actively listen and validate as much as possible when she comes home to vent about her day. She has a very stressful job and is a big venter, so this is where most of my efforts have been with her the last few days. Other than that, it has been a lot of just watching Netflix together. I signed my new lease yesterday (she had already signed hers) and we move out and officially separate in five weeks. I know this isn't totally in accordance with the rules, but I was coached to and have been trying to be as good a friend as possible right now. And I do want to maintain friendship even if it doesn't work out. Still doing things for her like cooking and making coffee, etc. and being as positive as possible. I have also ditched the sweats (quarantine wear) a few times within the past week and she commented, "why are you wearing jeans and a button up ?" - she is big on appearances and presenting as best as possible. While I have good style, I have gotten pretty complacent around her and especially at home, and I need to up the attraction. Ultimately though, I know my goal is not to just be her friend - I need to be her husband, lover, and partner. But my coach (and Gottman) says friendship is the root of that and that's where I need to start.

There have been two R talks within the past week. One she initiated and one I did asking if she would consider just separating instead of divorce (I know, I know). My Catch-22 is that I know I need to avoid R talks, but historically she has complained that I never bring up the big issues that we need to discuss, and that she always does and it feels burdensome to her. During both conversations, she echoed a lot of the same points she has historically made - different personalities, are we even capable of meeting each other's needs, we haven't ever been in a place where we've totally met each other's needs, we shouldn't just stay out of fear of the unknown when we both deserve to be happy, have we grown apart so much that we don't even have the same values anymore. I did a lot of validation and kept calm the entire time instead of resisting or trying to logically argue with her (we are both lawyers by trade so it's hard not to). I did own up to the fact that my actions would've have doomed almost any relationship, differing personalities or not, and that I have a lot I need to work on to be better as a husband and partner going forward. I do intend to make these changes regardless of whether we stay together or not. I do need to be better about honesty, integrity, and coming to joint agreements rather than making my own decisions without consulting her. I also tried to say that some of our issues have been due to not learning the proper skills, which she didn't necessarily agree with. She doesn't have a lot of successful marriages in her family. During the second conversation, I ended it by asking if she would consider a 3-6 month separation so I could demonstrate behavioral changes instead of filing for divorce right away. I didn't wait for an answer but instead ended the conversation by saying, "I will support and accept whatever decision you do decide to make."

Along the Catch-22 line - she brought up needing to decide how we are going to disclose our situation to people. I said I needed time to think about it. I want to bring it back up as a way of demonstrating I am capable of bringing up issues we need to deal with together. Anyone have any ideas here? Because we work in the same field/building, we have a lot of acquaintances and once one person finds out, the gossip will spread like wildfire. She is a more private person, but also very much values honesty and would not want to lie to anyone about us not being together.

We do have a therapist, but have been doing solo sessions only. I know this needs to be the status quo for now. I'm guessing she will discuss with the therapist this weekend (her next solo session) the possibility of just separating for now rather than moving forward with the divorce. My read is that she is open to it but still considering just divorce. She has continued to be somewhat warm around me, although she is not showing anymore sadness around me - her default is to not show emotions and be a robot. Her job is also very consuming and I'm sure that's where most of her focus is right now. There hasn't been any touch and I have not forced it.

Over the weekend, I did get tested once. One of our issues has been us not being able to do collaborative things together. She can be very controlling and I tend to resist. It's why we used to cook together a lot and now do separately. Usually she makes breakfast and I make dinner. I made breakfast because she slept in, and while I was making it, I asked her for advice on a part of the recipe. She got triggered - like a why do you need my help reaction - but I kept my cool and made it seem like I was genuinely interested in what she had to say. She also threw in a "you're gonna need to learn how to do this when you're on your own." My instinct at this point was to beg and plead, but I resisted with all my might.

As a small silver lining, and I don't want to read to much into this, but for a long time her phone background has been a picture of us during our wedding day. A couple months ago, when the tension between us got really intense, she changed it and I did the same soon after. Yesterday, I noticed she had changed it back to the wedding picture. I know it's not anything game changing but it's a small piece of hope. There have also been a couple days where I have been out spending time with family or friends and she has gotten home after me, and she has asked where I have been.

Today, I am feeling very conflicted. Yes, I do want to fight for this. I know I still want to be married to her. But I'm already feeling weary. Weary from how much work still needs to be done. Weary from how long this will all take. Weary from all the reading I have been doing and videos I have been watching. Weary knowing I am the only one fighting right now. And weary knowing the easy route would be to just give up, live my own life, and start fresh with someone new.

[rts4n]

Another little tidbit that is probably meaningless but that I feel like I need include - on the flipside of the positive silver linings - today she switched her daily vitamin from a prenatal one to a regular women's one. I don't know why I'm so focused on these little things because that's probably not where my energy needs to be.

[rts4n]

And I noticed she hasn't been wearing her rings since the BD.

[sandi2]

This also really resonated for me, although I am the HL one in our relationship. My problem was turning to p**n and - it's hard to say but being addicted - and ignoring our SSM even when she wanted to talk about it. Even though I am HL, and probably because of my LT use of p**n, I also have not had a ton of partners or one-nighters and that has made it challenging for me to break out of the p**n cycle.

Do you think your porn addiction is why you had a passive attitude about being in a SSM? I mean, the disinterest in sex really started before you were even engaged, and you went ahead with the wedding. I guess I am one of those people who want to understand the "why". Of course finding the solution is important, but if you don't know why you did certain things, what's to stop you from repeating it?

Did you have many girlfriends or were there other long term relationships?

I know this isn't totally in accordance with the rules, but I was coached to and have been trying to be as good a friend as possible right now.

Which rule would that be?