MLC newbie- new thread

[Believe6]

Can, thanks for the advice to say "it doesn't matter." I do have control over what I do and say.

So I was at lunch and when I came back from the kitchen, H was reading my computer screen. I had another website up that talked about MLC. He asked, "So you reading about me?" I said yes, I was. He asked what I think I learned. I asked if he really wanted to know. He said if I wanted to share. So I explained a bit. I did get emotional and explained I know how scary and painful this must be. That I think I was going through this myself, just in a different way, for the past 3 or 4 years. I cried and explained that I cry not just for me but for him because I see how confused and in pain he is.

I actually asked if he thought about his childhood and how this could be affecting this. He said he had a normal childhood. I may not think so, but he's not going to try and come up with something like molestation when it's not there. I wonder now if there is something in his childhood. He's often said he can't really remember too much growing up.

He asked me why I'm trying to analyze him. I told him, I'm not trying to analyze, I'm trying to point out that our foundational experiences can trigger us. They are hidden and something happens and they become things we need to heal to get through these times. I said, at least for me, I know I need to address things from back then and any other traumatic event to heal them so I can become better. I said, you don't have to tell me about it, it's just something to consider as you go through this. He just looked at me. Not saying much.

He said he is tired. I said I understand that I am too. I asked if he's tired of being with me. He said that's part of it. He said sometimes he feels good being by himself and sometimes he wants to go far away. I told him I understand. That maybe he should take a few days alone as some hotels are open during this crisis. He said he'd think about it.

He said he wonders if we are right for each other. I said, please don't speak for me. You may wonder if I'm right for you, but I know you're right for me. If you are wondering if I'm right for you, I can understand that. I think you need to get to know me again. I think we need to see what I did that was wrong in the relationship and if I can or am wiling to fix that. And same for me with you. We also have things to forgive. Both of us.

I told him that I have changed and will continue to change. I wish he could see it, but I can't control what he will or will not acknowledge.

I asked him if I was such a terrible wife. He said no, you weren't. He said he just thinks about all the bad stuff and it's hard. I said eventually he'll have to tell me the bad stuff or it will be poison, not just for him, but for us and trying to even maintain a friendly relationship. He says he should have brought up stuff from the past that bothered him. I told him yes and we could have dealt with it, but we can still deal with it now. He said he just isn't up to it and I said I understand.

I asked him, if you were wondering what I was researching or doing on the computer, why didn't you just ask me. He said because he knew I was hiding something because when he comes into the room I switch screens. I said I know you're doing the same thing because you switch too. I don't ask you because I am giving you the space you need.

It's strange how you can see their eyes and faces change. It's like seeing the alien show up. I saw it when I commented about him doing the same thing (computer screen thing). He stood there for a bit.

I said before we decide on a long separation, we both promised we'd try to work on this. Can we at least stick to that? And if you do need to stay with your siblings or get an apartment, that's totally your choice. I know you've said you need space. Again, he just looked thoughtful. Sad and in pain, but thoughtful.

There's more, but I can't really remember all we said. Really, trying to not get emotional and stay calm made me dizzy. The heat doesn't help because we don't have AC right now so I can't really remember all the rest.

Anyway, He walked away to stand in the livingroom before heading back to his office. I think he was worried that the kids may see him and I think he teared up. He really is terrible at emotions... anger, pain, even deep love.

I am praying for him. He is so very lost. He is so tired. I can see it. But he will only get more tired if he keeps hiding from these things that are tormenting him. And it's not my fault. I am not the cause. He is. It's all on him, but as he can't face his own choices. And honestly, his life... OUR life is amazing. It really is.

I know MLC steals their right vision from them and I won't defile the marriage and life we had by succumbing to his version of it. I will validate and say I'm sorry you feel that way. Or I'm sorry you see it that way. But in my heart and in my mind, I know the marriage, life and family we had and built.

God needs me and wants me not to give in to H's version of this. My kids, my family/friends, and I deserve better. We were not a mistake. This, our life, was a blessing. It feels so wrong to make it seem like it wasn't. Everyone we know would think what a spoiled brat to not appreciate what we had/have.

And I would agree with them. The funny thing is? H hates people he considers spoiled, He even said he thought I was spoiled growing up because I grew up in a upper middle class family. We took trips, my parents sent me to college, I didn't ever worry about buying stuff.

But I had my own share of emotional trauma growing up and so money doesn't keep you from your own turmoil. I wasn't spoiled, in that negative sense. I have always worked hard. H even complained that I was a workaholic and often put work first. I care about people and do what I can to help and serve. I listen and try to fix myself, if I hurt someone (and I don't think it's an unreasonable request).

So it's funny how he is becoming everything he says he hated. Spoiled, self centered, selfish, adulterer, hermit (and really withdrawing from friends), etc. But that is their path.

We still talk throughout today. Trying just to keep it to smart contact. Like finances or the kids or dinner. It's strange to have that kind of talk mid day and now we are back to acting like acquaintances. But I know I need to follow his lead.

So there it is. I was doing so well yesterday and this morning. I felt calm. I was working on me. Giving him a wide berth and allowing him to deal with himself.

I am just waiting for the anger. He's said before he gets angry, but doesn't like to express it. I told him that it's natural and healthy to express it. He said that's me (I think I shared this in a prior post). Anyway, I kinda feel that is coming. He'll need to get that anger out or it may turn into a health thing. I pray he can find a way to move through these emotions.

I am guessing he's in withdrawal or maybe in acceptance? Although he hasn't shared any deep remorse so maybe depression. Trying not to get caught up in the stages. Cause although knowing them helps understand their journey, every one of our MLCers will process in their own way and we have no idea. That's why it becomes our journey for ourselves and our kids.

I am proud of myself though. I am not lying in bed in a pit of despair. I am here. Getting it out and letting it go. God has him. God has me. God has all of us and all our issues. We must let go and trust... so I will pray for that and strength.

Blessings

[DnJ]

Good Morning B6

Happy belated birthday!

Congrats! 51 times around the old fireball. (Need to update your signature line. I know. Us old timers get forgetful. )

I know the birthday was tough for you.

My 50th birthday was a month after BD and leaving. XW did contact me, telling me how she knows this is not how I imagined my 50th birthday (geez, you think, lol). The next year no contact.

For both birthdays I was surrounded my my kids, parents, family and friends. Had a party, etc. And was so alone.

This year, at 52, I had a wonderful time. Hang in there. It does get much easier and better.

You are correct that interdependent is the end goal. As you said, you are/were both codependent. One needs to become independent before they can become interdependent.

Getting to independence is the big journey for the MLCer. Just about everything they do, all the running, promotes their dependence upon things and others for their happiness and joy in life. They have a lot of growing up to become independent adults. Interdependent is after, and they need to be independent for a while before progressing.

I am not going to berate you for driving over to OW’s to spy on her and possibly H. I’ll just agree with you - yes, that was a stupid thing to do. Lesson learnt. Yes?

Your recent R conversation with H. Lots was said. Now, let him think upon it. For a good while. No more. Let him bring it up next time, and let him do the bulk of the talking and leading. Validate and listen. He needs to sort through his own thoughts and feelings. I know, unfair.

I get it. You want to tell him how much you’ve grown, you’ve changed. You want to help him, encourage him. etc. The best way to tell him, is to be her. To live it, and lead it.

He will start another conversation. He is working through something. Time will tell the result.

Depression is ever present for the MLCer. It shows more and more as they run less and less. When he enters deep depression you will know.

Be a safe place for him to land. That’s all. You can’t fix him, you didn’t break him.

I see much hope in your situation.

DnJ

[Tmason]

Believe6

This is how I feel: "We were not a mistake. This, our life, was a blessing. It feels so wrong to make it seem like it wasn't."


Yes, there were mistakes along the way, but when the MLCr revises the past is the most hurtful.
I'm praying for you, hold firm and take one day at a time.

[HaWho]

Happy belated birthday.

You are doing great! Your outlook on this is healthy: you did not break him and you cannot fix him. Healthy people have healthy coping skills.

But, just to shape your expectations, he is in replay. If your bomb drop was November of 2019, there is now way he could have moved through replay that fast. When someone exhibits this level and depth of confusion/poor life coping skills, it cannot be fixed in a matter of months. That is like expecting a 15 year old to be done with puberty in a few months. Ain’t happenin.’

Focus on you, your growth and health.

[scout12]

You should definitely be proud, B6! You were calm, honest and heartfelt with H. Most importantly, you were true to yourself. Remember that you aren't obligated to absorb your H's negative emotions. You can distance yourself without being cold or cruel. Leave him to his journey and don't forget to live yours.

Happy belated birthday

[Kindly]

Happy belated B6. You’ve come such a long way in such a short time...you should definitely be very proud of yourself and the love and understanding you give.
Continue to focus on you!

[DnJ]

Happy Mother’s Day Believe

I do hope you enjoy your special day.

DnJ

[Believe6]

Gosh has it been a month since I posted? I have been lingering on a FB group and been really overwhelmed with me. It's not that my H has been monstering. He's too calm, rational and conflict avoidant for that.

But he told me on Monday, May18, that he wanted to leave and find an apartment. So let me back up. For the past 3 months, he's been telling me he hasn't contacted her at all. I know in my gut he's lying again and he has. Why would he do a complete 180 from trying to work things out to all of a sudden, no affection, not talking and rewriting our marital history? So I know he's back in replay.

Anyway, right after mother's day, I was doing laundry and I found the receipt for homedepot in his pocket as I was going to put the clothes in the hamper (we always check pockets). He got plants for me, his sister and his mom. The same plants mind you. So nothing special for the mother of his kids. Well, except a box of chocolates (but he got the same one for his sis/mom to share).

On the receipt, I see a "windy wings windchime." But he never gave me the windchime. I would have loved that. It was only $15. I asked him about it. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I asked. He told me he never bought one and that he was going to get a refund.

So later that morning, he disappears while I am out for my neighborhood walk. I call him because he didn't say he was going anywhere and we at least do that for each other. He tells me he is getting a refund. I wonder at this point if he got the windchime back from her to get the refund or what. Or maybe he still had it and was going to give it to her later and he found a way to hide it somewhere. He gets the refund, but I don't even ask him about it. I have learned to not pester him if he seems closed off.

He was going away from Tuesday, May 12 at night, through Friday. Just locally supposedly to "think about what he wants," to hike and take pictures, and just de-stress. I already have suspicions that he is going to have her join him. She has a pretty flexible job and can most likely pretend she is going to meet up with a client. I do smart contact and don't reach out. I do send text to our family group chain saying good morning and good night to the kiddos and he's on there so I am hoping he at least feels connected. And we did text a couple of times just to check in, but no relationship talk or anything. Just how are things. He is short in his replies, which is fine.

When he gets back, we have a decent weekend. He doesn't really monster. He's a runner so he's been hiding out. He tells me he didn't get his paper done or do his homework so now he's behind. I don't get it. That's one of the things he says he would stay on top of. So he spends a lot of time in his office. We do get time with D15 and S17, so at least we had that.

But on Monday, May 18, that's when i was going shopping for groceries and I saw a reciept in the side pocket of the car.
I had cleaned the car so I picked it up and saw that he bought windchimes at Lowe's instead on that Friday. I then just asked to talk to him and told him I found it. I was so calm. I have learned to work on myself, really detach and be a lighthouse.

So I just told him I know he bought them for her and asked if he had been in contact. He said he had. He gave her the windchime by going to her branch. They didn't have time alone (not sure I believe that). He said he only started emailing her a week prior (I don't believe this). I asked him why. He said because it is her first mother's day without her mom and he knows it will be hard and he wanted to get something for her.

I told him I know he misses her and I'm so sorry he is going through this. He said he's sorry too. That we are going through this. That's when he said he's been trying, but he isn't love me and isn't passionate about me and wants out of the marriage. He said he wants to get an apartment. That he feels like he needs to be alone and it's not because of her. He felt peaceful when he went away and didn't have to worry about anyone but himself. He said he'd miss the kids but they are getting older and they will get over it.

I told him how much apartments, even studio apartments, cost in our area. And with me still looking for work, I told him it would be tough. He looked like a trapped animal. I think he was promising her something. She's still with her spouse as I see her car there regularly. I don't really know if she is intending the same thing he is and really it doesn't matter. It's what he intends.

We ended the conversation with me telling him I don't want a divorce or for him to move out, but I can't stop him and I will accept what he decides to do. I tell him I do think this will affect the kids, but we'll get through it.

Oddly for the past week and a half, he hasn't brought it up again. I won't be pushing him on any relationship talk so I don't ask. I figure he's on his own journey and I don't want him to move out or for a divorce so I just won't talk about it.

His birthday was on Tuesday and we had 2 days over the holiday weekend that we did small social distancing gatherings. We pretended that everything was normal (except that we would have had a big party but Covid changed that).

When we were talking on that Monday, I did ask him if he can really see life without me or how it would be for our large group of family and friends. We get together often -- travel, celebrating birthdays and life. He says it will be different anyway because he can tell people are awkward. But that's not true. They may be upset with him inside, but in our group setting, they treat him like normal. And he acts like normal.

I just don't know if he'll wake up quicker if he was out and he wasn't coming to group events? I have heard recommendations to keep them home as long as you can stand how they act. It helps with bonding and healing. I don't know for sure. But for now, it's day by day.

I am grateful he isn't monstering- besides knowing that he continues to re-write our marital history. He won't tell me to my face what he thinks of me. I think he's afraid if he tells me what he is angry about, he'll realize it's totally fixable and that I have already fixed it now anyway.

I know my focus needs to be on my journey and my kids. I am doing better every day working on that for me and my kids. I just need a job now to focus on. I need something that uses my skills and allows me to feel like I have value beyond being a mom and wife... especially since my H acts like I suck at the latter.

I pray for him. I pray for me. I pray for all of us in hurting marriages whether for MLC or any other reason. It's so hard when the one person you were supposed to be able to count on becomes the one person who is destroying your world (and theirs). But it can be remade. Just differently... and I pray... better.

Blessings

[Gerda]

Believe -- can you forgive him if he leaves, breaks up her marriage and yours, has incredibly fun days with her and posts on FB that he is in love for the first time until the anger and sorrow of his kids starts to eat at him and then he remembers good things about you and notices you are living a great life without him and then faces his solitude and his inner wounds and slowly wakes up and wants to come back?

That's what standing is. It's not keeping him from leaving.

To me you are doing way too much monitoring, talking to him, telling him how you feel, etc. IT WON'T WORK. It feels like chasing to him. (It even feels like chasing to me, and I totally get what you feel!)

Read my story if you have time. You will see how poorly that approach worked.

They do come back, many of them. But not because you tried so hard to make things clear. Only because they tried what they thought would fix the problem and realize it didn't fix it and slowly remember you and how great you were.

He can't hear or see you right now. He doesn't care if he hurts you. Let go of all rational attempts to show him the truth. He doesn't hear you. He doesn't take his vows seriously.

BUT -- You are so amazingly great that he will most likely remember one day. If he gets through his MLC, he will try to come back. Your stand will mean that you say yes at that point, not that you prevent the disgusting behavior he is about to undertake.

Drop the rope! If you find a receipt, leave it in his desk or burn it in the hottest fire of h$ll, don't talk to him about it! Talk to God about it only! BE BUSY ALL THE TIME! Not to be manipulative but to find yourself. Tell yourself he has one year to leave and come back, or two or ten, whatever you want. And until then, consider him gone. Don't talk to him about his plans. He knows you don't want to divorce. Here's an example:

He said he's sorry too. That we are going through this. That's when he said he's been trying, but he isn't love me and isn't passionate about me and wants out of the marriage. He said he wants to get an apartment. That he feels like he needs to be alone and it's not because of her. He felt peaceful when he went away and didn't have to worry about anyone but himself. He said he'd miss the kids but they are getting older and they will get over it.


Instead of what you wrote try -- I listened and kept eye contact while he spoke. I didn't reveal how much my heart was hurting. I just listened. (Afterwards I took a drive and screamed and cried but he never knew.) When he was done talking, I said very firmly and without malice, just stating the facts, "I hear that you want to leave and that you are finding an apartment. I don't agree that the kids will get over it. That is a lie you are telling yourself. You need to find that out for yourself, and we'll be here if you ever change your mind. I really need to cook dinner now but just let me know any practical stuff you need and otherwise we don't need to discuss it further."

Then get up and cheerfully go about your business, or take a drive and scream if you need to. Be busy for the rest of the time, offer him some dinner if you are making it and if you can be polite. LET HIM GO. And then go and protect everything you can of your finances. Take out half of everything and put it in your own accounts. Seriously.

Your best shot at him coming back is him leaving. It is a searing pain like fire, but you will have so much more peace not having to interact with him or find his receipts or notice her car's location. He has to go through the whole process of acting on his plan and letting it crash and burn. Might take a couple years or more. That's your choice to stand or not!

And remember -- OW is not a good person. She is on the WRONG path and is willing to destroy the lives of you and your kids to have what she wants. It will also never succeed. The OW of my life is the same.

What she does is not going to change anything about you or your marriage. She is a tool for his MLC, and even if he leaves you, sets up a life with her, etc., it will not mean anything about you and it will not last. It really almost never lasts. Most MLCer's here who do that end up doing that many times over. Would you accept wind chimes from a married man? Or rely on him when you are grieving your parent's death?

Just try to remember that when you feel jealous or confused about her. Whenever you want to think about her, force yourself to say, "NO I AM NOT THINKING ABOUT HER!" even if you have to say that two thousand times a day or say a prayer that she will go to the man God intended for her. God knows already that the man he intends for her is not your H!

[scout12]

B6 - he doesn't need an apartment to de-stress and find space to think. He needs an apartment so he can sleep with someone else. The same goes for the OW if she is still living with her spouse. Their desperation to be with each other is driving their every action right now. Rational arguments about finances and childcare are just puffs of hot air to someone in limerence. Stop trying to convince him to stay. In fact, tell him to go.

Your best course of action is to help him do it! Say goodbye with a wave and a knowing smile. If you google it, you'll find that limerent relationships tend to burn out once exposed to the mundanity of every day life. Bills and chores aren't sexy or exciting. Just leave him to his own destruction. You can be there to pick up the pieces if that's what you want, but you might find with enough time and space you realise you deserve someone better.

Don't expose yourself to his breakdown as it inevitably happens. It will only cause you more distress. Try to disconnect from him about everything except childcare and finances. Block him on social media and resist the urge to snoop. Don't be ashamed to talk about what's going on with your family and friends. Exposing the affair will either hasten its demise under the weight of shame, or force them to legitimise their relationship to try and prove they did nothing wrong.

Once he and OW have settled into 'domestic bliss', and the secrecy and fun of the affair wears off, he will realise that he has simply recreated the same problems with a different person. Because the problem was never you, it was him. I know all this advice probably seems harsh and scary. It is. But it's your best, if not only, chance of helping him realise what he is losing. He has to actually lose you, his kids, your shared life before he will learn to value it.

Finally, no contact isn't a tactic to get him back. It's to protect you and remove you from an abusive situation. He wants a divorce but seems to be on the fence? Push him off. Give him what he thinks he wants. The faster he experiences consequences for his actions, the faster he will wake up (if he's going to at all). Be polite and remote. You will not accept a demotion from wife to friend. How insulting would that be? You are a woman to be cherished, not merely tolerated.