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Originally Posted by Steve85
What I can tell you is that if she ever wants to R, no obstacle will stop her from trying. Until then, consider it all manipulation and further lying to get what she wants. That is why I suggested hoosjim's threads. Once he pulled the plug and his W knew he was serious, she was ready to jump through hoops of fire to get him back. You had one foot in that direction with setting her stuff out.

I think giving her a couple weeks and then telling her that this isn't working and she needs to pack everything and move to her apartment permanently, that you are done for good would be appropriate. Can you tell if she is really going through withdrawals from the A, or do you think she is sad and angry because she got caught...... Again?
Steve, I've read hoosjim's thread, it's been awhile, but I remember the actions he took when he saw his WW with OM in the fitness center. When I pulled the plug on my W and set all her stuff out this time, she knew I wasn't taking this crap anymore.

With that said, she's definitely not doing whatever it takes to make it right and show me she wants to R. I don't feel that, many have said I will feel it without a shadow of a doubt. We are not there, she is ambivalent with regards to wanting to be with me long-term.

When she went NC on April 13 she became sad and depressed during the A withdrawal. This coupled with one of her BFF's leading her to believe that I was cheating on her led to the relapse. My W knows that was false information now and has distanced herself from that particular BFF.

So, to answer your question, I honestly think she is trying on this most recent NC attempt which started on June 1 and she is going through withdrawal and not looking for the next opportunity to cheat.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Ríville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Let her go dear friend. You know where I come from. Iím always pushing for taking time and patience when facing these instances. Sheís used to say what you need to hear too.

Sheís an addicted person. She doesnít respect you, your kids and even herself.
Use the news to kick her out. She needs help from herself first. You need to uncontrol her. You know you do.

Iím sorry man. Sheís still a thousand light years from home.

Free yourself Curtis. You deserve better.

Let her go.


WW H(me): 51
W: 47
T: 26 M: 21
S: 16
Piecing since 03/2016
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Curtis,

Well Curtis, I don't think you read what I wrote. But, looks like the same song, just a different day. You always give her options. The, "if you do this, or if you don't do that". You haven't meant any of it and she knows it. When you mean it, she want have options. She will have one choice and only one choice. When you mean, she want have to guess and neither will you. When you mean it, it won't be questions, it will only be actions. So from my vantage point, you haven't meant it, you have only voiced it.

You're not following DB strategies, you still checking her phone, you're not DBing. You are still trying to control her. It's the same ol Curtis, with the same ole actions.

How have you changed,when it comes to interacting with your wife? She's still WW, and there's steps to her recovery and y'all's reconciliation. You are still talking about OM and relationships. You haven't even gotten a def she's in it for the long haul.

Stop repeating the same actions.

Joejoe01


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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This was probably one of the toughest reads on these boards in many many years.

You are trying to control her into staying which just makes her go deeper under ground. Sheís not ready to go, because she will lose her cake. But since you let her back with a few tears and words, and knows how play you so good.

You both have a lot of issues. You canít control your wife working in hers but you sure can control yours. Joe joe asked a good question. What have you donít to work on yourself? What are your changes?

Honestly, I donít believe cheaters change. A very small percentage. And of that very small percentage , that person has to do a whole of work. Years of work. My ex cheated on every girlfriend he had since 16. He left me for his AP and they have been married 9 years, and I am pretty sure he has cheated on her. Heck, he would probably cheat on her with me.

The more times you let her do this, and by ďletĒ I mean telling her what she needs to do and her lying that she is going to do it, the more respect she loses for you, the more you lose for yourself, and the more your kids will lose for you as you guys go. She will just become craftier on hiding it.

What should you do Curtis? Iíll be blunt. Kick her lying cheating arse out. You should also really get down to the bottom of your control issues and your allowance for disrespect and turn all of you focus on that. Because you have expended all your energy in trying to make her stop cheating. Itís a waste of energy quite honestly. But helping yourself enever is a waste of energy. Hard work? Yes. But it will always pay off

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I haven't been around in months. But yeah sane old song and dance here. Curtis. Give her a date in the next two weeks to get her [censored] and her horse. And don't say another word. IGNORE HER COMPLETELY!!! No messages, no phone calls, no emails unless concerning lawyers. If she doesn't move her [censored]. You put it out on due date on the curb. Got it! How much more of your life are you going to waste on a bottomless, manipulative, solipsistic, hypergamous, fickle pit. Those years, that time, that energy, that investment. You can't get it back. You have to go stone cold silent on people that don't respect your time, your worth, your energy, and your commitment. The only language they will ever understand in order to reflect on their own poor choices is SILENCE. You can't tell, ration, bargain, respect or relate with someone that has a different impression or perception of you. CUT HER LOSE or you are going to be in even more pain for years to come, and waste time you will never get back. Understand.?

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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
You have to go stone cold silent on people that don't respect your time, your worth, your energy, and your commitment. The only language they will ever understand in order to reflect on their own poor choices is SILENCE. You can't tell, ration, bargain, respect or relate with someone that has a different impression or perception of you. CUT HER LOSE or you are going to be in even more pain for years to come, and waste time you will never get back. Understand.?

This is good stuff IHC!


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

ÔŅĹHappiness equals reality minus expectationsÔŅĹ- Magliozzi
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Curtis,

This sounds like a really difficult situation. I see your frustrations, but also understand other posters here in that you donít seem to change your attitude.

I agree with Steve above. Give her a timescale and implement an action if nothing remotely positive comes out of it.

I disagree with Ginger in that all cheaters donít ever change. Iíve never understood the saying ĎOnce a cheater, always a cheaterí. Some are repentant and improve. Not all drug addicts relapse when they go clean, for example. One quote I read on here was Ďthe best apology is changed behaviourí, so if someone is very serious about changing their past ways or vices, even at the expense of a R or M, they do it (however long that takes) and it sticks, thatís a good thing. Whether the other person in a R/M with them sticks around to see the end result is another matter.

It seems like you both would benefit from IC, separately. Iíd definitely look into that. IC was invaluable for me. I wouldnít be where I am now without it.

Last edited by DaB35; 06/18/20 04:44 PM.

Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
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I said ďmost, not all.

But I can say her type of serial cheating never changes. She just canít stop and appears sociopath. It wasnít a ďone time oppsieĒ thing. Sheís on to OM 3.

Her only repentance is when she gets caught and itís completely fake to continue to live her cushy lifestyle

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Hereís an update I wrote 3 months ago but never posted. Adding now to journal before my next update.

W is now 2 months NC with OM3. She is still a vagabond living in the guest bedroom since the beginning of April. She has about a weeks worth of clothes stuffed in the drawers of the nightstand. Sheíll bring a single article of clothing from her affair house every now and then. I let her be, that seems to be all sheís comfortable with.

We are both working from home throughout the pandemic and we are slowly becoming more comfortable around each other. We are back to being a married couple in many ways during the day and with regards to parenting and making joint decisions about the future. However, there is zero intimacy and affection. At bedtime, she says goodnight about every other night, then retreats into the guest bedroom. The woman has no desire for me and there has been no physical contact.

Iíve gone from my W having an EA, IHS, then PA, then more PAís, then physical separation for a year, moving home back into IHS, failed NC attempts with AP, and now a SSM. The love in this MR is one-sided. This is absolutely not the model of marriage that I want to be setting as an example for my kids. I do ask myself everyday if I am better off pushing forward with the D. Then I decide not today and convince myself that she is going through affair withdrawal. Iíve read the process of letting go of the affair can take weeks or months as the fog slowly lifts before some WAS are able to see the LBS and have some positive feelings return. It sure would be great to bypass all of this and get to the hysterical bonding phase. One thing Iíve learned is that the LBS canít really do much to fast track these things, the WAS is on their own timeline. I try to focus on the positives, sheís here, sheís NC with AP, she talks about a future with me, we laugh and spend time together.

Still, I want more. We are not piecing. She is still working through and deciding if she wants to reconcile. Until we are sleeping together in the same bed in the marital home and she expresses her commitment to our MR in words and actions along with a willingness to prioritize and do the necessary work, we are not piecing.

W and I had a relationship talk a few weeks ago after I pulled a sheet of paper out of her work notebook to make a shopping list. She had some questions written out on the preceding page along with some thoughts: Is OM3 good for me? Is Curtis good for me? Should I stay or should I go? W sensed my demeanor change when I saw what was on the page. I thought about it and decided not to hold back my feelings. After a few minutes I told her that was really bothering me. She started getting extremely defensive just like all the other relationship talks and throwing things back at me. She said she has no time, we donít talk because she has no time in her life, everyone is pressuring her and looking for answers. She said she canít leave now because of the kids. She was/is mad that she was ďforcedĒ to give up talking to someone (OM3) that she cared about.

W said we only have a business relationship and that we have no emotional connection, never have. She feels her Aís were when we were separated so it was okay. She was done with me and my feelings didnít matter to her so it was not a deciding factor for her to stop. W said Iím lucky I made her feel bad about cheating or she would have ended our marriage last year. The guilt kept her from filing. She agreed that sheís still ambivalent and thatís why the fish are still at her house, she has 5 pairs of clothes here, and hasnít moved home.

I said you listed many negatives about me and only a few positives. I asked do those negatives, many of which are long in the past, outweigh my positives? She replied no. I said you seem to focus on them a lot and are bitter and resentful. She saw that was the case and something she needs to work through. I asked if she wanted our marriage to be more than a business relationship. She said yes. I told her I need her help and effort. I asked if she thought we could get there and she replied yes. My takeaway from this talk was that nothingís changed, sheís stuck in outer space light years from home and hasnít moved any closer.

In other news, divorced BFF tested positive for CV-19. Most likely picked up from one of her online dates. Good reason to steer clear of her. Her daughters were with her XH when she found out; however, she confided in my W that she felt it was best until they come back to her before she notify him of her test results. D is so ugly that people are willing to put otherís lives at risk out of spite. Talk about vindictive and selfish behavior.

Widowed BFF complains daily to my W about how her now BF (former AP) who still lives with his babyís mama isnít living up to what he said he would do. Namely visit her and her two kids at least once a week and play new daddy to them. W tells me about all the drama on this womanís life and how her BF isnít meeting her expectations and I ask her why she is putting herself through this stress. W responds I know you donít like her but sheís not going anywhere so youíll just have to deal with it. I let it go. If thatís who W wants to interact with, then thatís her business. I canít fix her problems. W and kids stayed with the widowed BFF on the 1 year anniversary of his passing. W came back the next day and started telling me how BFF is still in the anger phase of the grieving process and has made zero progress. W feels that BFF is using her and canít be alone. W feels taken advantage of by BFF and thinks she may need to start distancing herself from her. Wís eyes teared when she was telling me because she feels as though she doesnít have any good friends in her present life.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Ríville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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curtis7 Offline OP
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2 years ago today my W informed me what she had probably decided months earlier that our MR was over. I donít know why but I couldnít sleep and felt compelled to post an update on BD anniversary. Wow, was I a mess back then, that event sent me spinning for months! Iím doing good, Iím still married, W has been back home for 7 months, NC with OM for 5 months, and brought her stuff and fish home 3 months ago.

Most of her clothes are in the master bedroom walk in closet, but she never goes in there. She continues to stuff 2 weeks worth of clothes in the guest bedroom nightstand and closet. She refers to the bedrooms as my room and your room.

For all intents and purposes we are IHS in the time sheís been back. There is zero physical contact and no intimacy as she sleeps in the guest bedroom nightly. I have gone from living in an open MR to now living in a SSM and loveless MR where I donít have a committed partner. Fair warning to any newcomers, this is not for the faint of heart. LH said this could take years to resolve and thatís a fact!

Iíve tried to remind myself that she was ďin loveĒ with her AP. I can imagine it takes time to go through affair withdrawal to unwind and process those feelings and the reasons why she chose to blow up our family. But 5 months, really? How long will this continue? I tried reading Sandiís first posts on the forum when she was WW to glean insight into this process. I had a hard time following the timeline, but it seemed like many months before she started to respect her H after deciding to stick to NC with OM.

W and I usually watch a few shows after the kids go to bed. Then she goes off to sleep typically without saying goodnight. We live together as co-parents and roommates. I go to bed most nights and ask myself if I should press forward with the D. I honestly donít know why I continue to tolerate this type of relationship. I guess itís because I havenít lost hope that one day she will want to start working on MR 2.0. Also, my vows and values are important to me and I get to be with my kids everyday.

I asked her a couple months ago if she wanted to sleep in our bed. She only responded no. A few weeks later she was talking about her plans for her affair house which led to a relationship talk. I asked if sheís happy. She said no and others have asked her but she doesnít know why while crying. I said youíve never said that you want us or a better marriage. She said sheís tried and she doesnít know whatís wrong. She needs more time and feels like I set these deadlines. Like Labor Day when I asked her to sleep in our bed. She said sheís not going to sleep together and give me false hope or fake it. I said I donít want her to fake it either. She wonít be guilted into doing something she doesnít want to do. She said you canít always fix everything. She said sheís broken and asked why I canít let things be. I said I canít live this way the rest of our lives. She said she has no desire for me and the last time she did was 4 years ago. She said the way I didnít help out after our daughter was born may have started it. I asked if she thought I was impatient and she replied yes. I said I get it and asked if there are any positives about me. She said that she likes that I do the laundry (now thereís some real value).

Later that day I texted her a video link from Joe Beam on rejection and said ďWhen you have some time maybe you could watch. It helps explain how I feel. I appreciate you sharing why you're not feeling the same. One thing I've learned is that you don't always get what you want unless you ask...so I asked you.Ē W replied ďI watched the video btw. I will try to be more communicative.Ē I reflected back on this exchange and really listened to what she was telling me which can be simply summarized that she doesnít want me. I took my ring off and boxed it up. Itís not a marriage when only one personís heart is in it.

I donít pressure her anymore. In many ways her behavior is back to what I remember. I havenít verified her NC with OM but her actions show me that the NC is real. She has distanced herself from widowed BFF as she felt used by her. She remains in contact with divorced BFF, but not as often as she is settling in with a new BF. W is kind to me, but maybe a bit more selfish. Occasionally she goes out of her way to do things for me or that I would like. She talks about future plans and we work on home improvement projects together. She seems content with our current situation as is. W does not see an IC so I can only surmise she is trying to work through her issues internally.

I wanted so badly to be a success story here. To prove that people can change for the better, work through their problems, and build a better marriage. Maybe that will happen for me, maybe it wonít. Iíll be fine either way. My W not showing that she wants to R after living here for so many months has made this all much more difficult. I still love her and see things from a different perspective now on how damaged she was/is. Sometimes I look at her and feel anger at how her choices made me feel. However, these flashbacks are fading over time.

I keep busy with S9ís baseball, D6ís softball, working out, and projects around the house. Iíll read a relationship or self improvement book now and then as a refresher and to prevent backsliding on my hard earned changes. These are crazy times. Iíd like to take the family on a trip, even for a long weekend, but it seems unlikely before the holidays.

I was reluctant to post here until I was in firmly in reconciliation or divorced bc I was hit with so many 2x4ís (deserved btw) for not DB. I do keep up on the sitches of others and maybe Iíll be able to give some good advice once I come out the other side of this. Perhaps this journaling will help others in their MRís. Take care everyone.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Ríville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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