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Joseph,

I'm going to start with an apology first because I haven't read your entire sitch. What I did read, I'm sorry your family is going through this, you, your kids, and your wife.

I will respond only to your last journal entry about apologies. This is just my opinion. Given the dynamics right now, apology or not, it could mean very little at the moment. I believe that apologizing for things you do now may come across as weakness. There's a time and place for it, granted, but right now is not time to play catch up on dealings of feelings as I would put it. Own it, don't let it happen again. I'm talking about whatever you do that you apologize for. If you're in the moment and something happened and it was your bad, then I would probably own it and say something if you two were together. Don't go overthinking things and from hindsight bring stuff up to apologize for. Let it be.

You see how that apology snowballed into you over talking it? Then you questioned whether it was the right thing to do or not. That sounds to me like you're caught up in the cycle right now going from one extreme to another. It's that emotional rollercoaster and the sooner you realize it, you can perhaps jump off it. Another thing, try to be forward thinking in asking yourself if this will hurt or help. If you're not sure, check here first and don't do anything.

You made a comment like " you don't have to say sorry" she can say pretty much anything she wants so long as she isn't disrespectful then you have other ways of setting your boundaries. I find these comments like being Mr Fixer. What I do now when my wife speaks her mind is I listen. Validate, and sometimes just STFU.

I'm not bashing the apology. I did question all the stuff behind the apology. If you feel like you need to do it, then say it and keep it short. No long drawn out explanations. I don't know, it could also come across as trying to win her over. Like trying to be too nice.

This stuff is hard to deal with and it's confusing at first. What helped me was when Sandi mentioned using your moral compass. What we sometimes feel is the right thing to do in the moment is not always the right move. It's driven by so many things and if we are still confused much of our actions will be based on our confused self. Once you re-center, you will find your way. Self respect, it starts there with everything.

Joseph, why is her not asking to see the kids breaking your heart? Didn't you say she is at that point where anything she says can be a contradictory lie? I remember my wife was in a sad, miserable state where she didn't remember what she said or did or that's he was speaking out both sides of her mouth. She's confused and hurting. What if she thought it was best to be away for the kids' sake? Like some twisted way of thinking which is very much where she's at. I'm just saying don't put her problems on you. Don't bear all that. I feel again this is me, that part of this progression is learning to let go. That's not your fight. You be there for your kids. That's all you can do. You set them up with proper counseling if need be. Don't go letting what someone else do (or don't do in this case) be another way of making you feel the way you do. The question earlier was rhetorical, I understand where you are coming from. Just try not to worry so much about things out of our control, ok? Focus on the things you can control.

Wish you strength in all this.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Hi Adam,
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. Over thinking things has been an issue of mine forever. It’s definitely something I’ve been accused of a time or 1000x lol. This is why NC for me unless she initiates it is so important for me. Really I should have as little contact as possible because I do over think everything. This has been an issue of mine for as long as I can remember.

I guess it’s possible she’s staying away for their own good, but she has blamed me for her not seeing them. She blames the fact she doesn’t have her own place. (Supposedly). She has said flat out it’s no fault of her own she spends more time with the OM than her own children. And that was less than a week ago. She told me that it’s ridiculous the kids wanna spend time with her on her 2 days off a week every week. (We’re talking about hour or 2. So 4 hours total a week. Like thats to much time. She told D8 a few weeks ago when she asked her over the phone why she won’t see them more that she has other important things to do. And it breaks my heart because D8 gets a little worse everyday she doesn’t see her Mom. D8 was always close to me, but she was the apple of my W eye. And visa versa. D8 was born in a fairly rural hospital and she left with whooping cough. There were times where D8 may have died if my W wasn’t around. One specific time was D8 gave up trying to breath and her lips started turning blue. I couldn’t get her to breath. My W did within 10 secs and after that spent the next 2 months with her. Every second of every day. I even made her an indoor tent with a humidifier. They were inseparable and were that way until the day she walked out. Everyone is in counseling just in case I didn’t mention that.

I’m sure my apology didn’t mean anything. But it did make me feel better. And it stays true to who I am as a person. Did I over do it, yes, I should have kept it short and sweet. It’s a mistake I won’t repeat.

Seriously though thank you for the over thinking comment. It’s easy to brush it off when my W is saying it. Because it’s easy to think it’s just taking a shot at me. But when a stranger is pointing it out, you can’t do anything but take a look at yourself in the mirror and take notice.


Me: 40
EX:37
Together 17 years
Married 16 years
5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11

BD 03/06/20, divorced 12/23/21
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Journaling:
W never called the kids last night. I texted her, she responded this morning. I asked her why she doesn’t try to talk to this kids. She said she fell asleep last night. I didn’t question it but I think it’s a horrible excuse. She also said they don’t respond anyway. I told her the kids asked me to file for full custody. (Which is true, though D8 is having a very hard time with not having momma around and I think she’s just going with her siblings) She said I thought we were keeping the courts out of this. I told her we need to have a better relationship because we can’t talk at all without someone getting their feelings hurt. We can’t be friends, because that just won’t work for me there’s to many feelings involved but we can do better than this. She actually said she agreed. From there it turned into divorce talk. I asked her what the hold up is in filing for divorce so people can start moving on. This limbo isn’t good for me or the kids. Her response was why haven’t I filed, and that she was always told it’s not good for a woman to file. I asked where did she hear that from because it’s not true. Statistically speaking most woman do file. She than proceeds to tell me she’s not mentally emotionally or financially ready to file. I asked her what she meant by that. She said she doesn’t have the money first off. And some days she strongly in the corner of reconciliation and some days she strongly on the let’s get divorced corner and some days it’s right down the middle. I laughed and said well I know what days you want divorced, she laughed back and said yeah all the days that end in Y. She than said hey if you didn’t know I would say that than you don’t know me. I told her of course I knew she say something like that. I know her better than anyone. I than told her I understand how she felt because when we argue I just want to be done, when we don’t talk I’m anxious about it, but when we see each other I’m still drawn to her. I told her I wasn’t going to file because why should I be the one to pay for it and it’s not what I want. She said she understood. She told me she is watching the OM and his W go through it and it’s getting bad. That the OM was served divorce papers and custody papers. (Which I find ironic because if it’s bad for the woman to file, what was so bad about the OM W filing) and she doesn’t want any parts of what they’re going thru. She than said she had to go and she’d call me on her lunch break. (We’ll see if she actually does)

I find this almost comically pathetic at this point. I truly do wonder what she thought was going to happen? Did she really think she was going to be able to leave me, take the kids and I would just go away? Did she think I was going to walk out on my kids and leave them all be? I know she told D15 that the OM was going to be her new Dad before she left, so she really must have thought I would emotionally crumble and give up. Or honestly kill myself. Idk. Maybe reality is finally setting in and everything isn’t all smiles and happiness.

I am starting to think seeing the kids and me makes her want to come back but she’s fighting that urge like nothing else. Idk, maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe I’m completely wrong on everything. Every single time we talk since she left she always says something or does something that makes her says, hey if you didn’t know I was gonna say or do that than you don’t know me. I’m starting to think she struggling with being around people that just don’t know her the way her family does. But again, idk. If she was being herself I would know. But I don’t know who this person is.

I’m torn between telling her that I’m going to file for full custody, or just surprising her with it and just not doing anything at all and seeing where things land. I’m just nervous it’s going to get nasty either way when she can finally get her own place and I may as well get a head of the game. I’m also nervous there is a chance at reconciliation and I’ll completely blow it by giving her the excuse I’m taking her kids away. At least she’ll justify it to herself that way.

And once again I’m over thinking everything.


Me: 40
EX:37
Together 17 years
Married 16 years
5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11

BD 03/06/20, divorced 12/23/21
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Joseph - don't bring up D and filing until you are done sure you are good and ready to be 100% done.

I don't get that you are. I think you brought it up as a way to get a reaction out of her - a wake up call so to speak.

I know what is like getting caught up in those conversations where S is being nice.... kind. I always mistake those gestrues with they are having second thoughts. NOPE. Just a moment of calm.

I do think your S is waffling. But, the contact over not contacting the kids... etc. That is just another PUSH behavior. She is an adult. Don't lecture her on how to parent. She deep down knows what a good parent is and right now for whatever selfish reason she cannot do that. Given the nature of the conversations between her and the kids perhaps its best she not have much conctact.

She has to come to figure these things out for herself. You can't drag her there or convince her here. If she truly is getting an eye opening experience to the OM's drama that may be what it takes for her to reconcile... but leave her to figure this out on her own.

I want so much just to talk with my H about what happened at work yesterday... just to hear his voice on the other end of the phone... sometimes just sitting in silence knowing he was on the other end of the phone. Its not going to do me any good or my M any good.

Be the lighthouse for you and your kids. If your S ever comes out of this think of the respect she will have for you knowing how strong you were during all this.

Hugs! Peace and Love

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J,

I want to start up by saying that I think your a straight up dude who deserves so much better then the BS you are dealing with right now. The quickest way to reconciliation is to go in the opposite direction and have the attitude of "good luck with that". I'm a straight shooter so I am going to give you MY honest opinion below.


Originally Posted by JosephS
She told me she is watching the OM and his W go through it and it’s getting bad. That the OM was served divorce papers and custody papers. (Which I find ironic because if it’s bad for the woman to file, what was so bad about the OM W filing) and she doesn’t want any parts of what they’re going thru. She than said she had to go and she’d call me on her lunch break. (We’ll see if she actually does)

These talks can NEVER happened. That fact that she is talking to you about him means she has no respect for you right now.
Originally Posted by JosephS
I know she told D15 that the OM was going to be her new Dad before she left, so she really must have thought I would emotionally crumble and give up. Or honestly kill myself. Idk. Maybe reality is finally setting in and everything isn’t all smiles and happiness.

This right here is completely unacceptable and you should pack all her $hit up and move it to the garage.
Originally Posted by JosephS
I am starting to think seeing the kids and me makes her want to come back but she’s fighting that urge like nothing else. Idk, maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe I’m completely wrong on everything.

You are fooling yourself. She is living the dream right now. She has a boyfriend a built in babysitter who is writing her apology notes (WTF) and knows she can return home at any time.
Originally Posted by JosephS
I’m torn between telling her that I’m going to file for full custody, or just surprising her with it and just not doing anything at all and seeing where things land. I’m just nervous it’s going to get nasty either way when she can finally get her own place and I may as well get a head of the game.

I would suggest you just do it. The quickest way for her to get a real dose of reality is getting her 50/50 custody as long as you see her as a fit mother.
Originally Posted by JosephS
I’m also nervous there is a chance at reconciliation and I’ll completely blow it by giving her the excuse I’m taking her kids away.

Truthfully your weak behavior is the number one thing that will prevent reconciliation.

Look I am not saying apologies are not in store I am just saying not right now. Every move from here on out should be based on strength and what is best for you and the kids.

Stay strong!

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Hi KC,
I know I shouldn’t call her about parenting, but my D8 cried and cried yesterday, and she asked me to for her. So I did. She wanted to know why her Mom has just stopped caring. I didn’t lecture her, and I certainly didn’t ask why she stopped caring. I just asked if there was anything that was going on that was causing her to talk to them the way she does and pull way back. She just said she knows they hate her and she’s being selfish and putting up a wall. That’s actually what prompted me to tell her they’ve asked me to file. Because she’s protecting herself and not her children. I actually did try to be supportive of the W. It’s hard, very hard. My emotions are all over the place personally and my D8 are too. With school basically being cancelled, and her stuck in the house and her mom walking out and being the youngest she’s very lonely. She was always closer to her mom. So this has been the hardest for her. They called each other their besties for life and my D8 meant it. (We’ll back than anyway). On the bright side the W did text D8 and than asked to see them Sunday. It’s be 10 days if that holds up. We’ll see. But honestly I kept my tone polite and kind and I didn’t question anything she said. Just told her I know she’s better than this and I hope she sees it soon. Because the kids are getting to the point where they really don’t want anything to do with her. D8 is really the only one left who has hope moms worth talking too. Actually something I forgot to mention was, apparently S16 has her debit card saved on his PS4 and she told me he spent $40 without asking her, I apologized and told her it had to be a mistake because S16 did take my card to buy stuff and I told her I would give her the money. She told me not to worry about it, he was her son too.

As far as the divorce, it came up naturally. I guess after I talked to my BIL the other day he told my W that he was gonna come see the kids at my place. She told me when we were talking about the kids that he questioned her on how she could go this long and not see them and what the heck is going on with her. She openly admitted she asked him how i sounded, and he said just fine, and if you don’t get your head out of your @$$ , you’re gonna lose him and the kids. I than asked her at that point why she hadn’t filed. We talked about it for 10 mins or so out of the 30 mins we were on the phone. She has absolutely no problem telling me to F off or she’s flat out not talking about anything. And honestly there were times during that 10 mins where we could have changed the subject but she kept going on about it. I think seeing what the OM is going through is either making her rethink if this is what she wants, or she wants reassurance we won’t be that nasty about it. Either way...We got off the phone pleasantly, and we’ll see if she actually calls on her lunch break.

I’ll openly admit every single other time it’s come up it was a MASSIVE mistake. Lol. This time was different for some reason. But I do know, thankfully, just because this time was different it doesn’t mean it’s ok to talk about it again or bring it up.

I’m not ready for the divorce, I don’t want one, but at the same time if we are in a pattern where she’s just gonna wait for me to file so she doesn’t look any worse and I’m waiting for her to file because I don’t want one, that isn’t gonna exactly work out either. So...it’s not something that can be avoided forever.

I’m fairly scattered brained after we get off the phone because I feel like I’m talking in a mine field, just waiting for the magical word or subject she doesn’t wanna hear or talk about and than Kaboom. I should have mentioned my BIL talking to her, it probably would have cleared that up a bit better. In the future I’ll probably wait an hour or two after we hang up before I journal. I’ll be more focused and won’t leave out important details.

I’m actually doing pretty well with the kids. When I’m around them, they don’t see the side you guys do. No one does except my councilor. That’s why this forum has been a god send for me. It gives me that outlet and allowed me to get great advice and encouragement and as I’ve read before the 2x4 I need!


Me: 40
EX:37
Together 17 years
Married 16 years
5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11

BD 03/06/20, divorced 12/23/21
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LH19
Man I love it. Seriously don’t apologize to me for giving it to me plan and simple.

I guess should clarify she didn’t mention OM by name, but seriously who else could it be. Just said him and her.

As far as her stuff the day after she left she came and got what we packed for her. (I wouldn’t allow her to come
Into the house I was nervous she’d take a kid and run.) the rest was put into a storage unit we’ve had for years.

You’re absolutely right about the boyfriend and built in baby sitter. However she is aware she’s not welcome back at anytime. I’ve made it clear she needs a lot of IC and MC. And maybe after a year of us working on it in separate homes she could come home. I meant it, and will stick to it.

As far as custody is concerned even she admits she has absolutely no shot because of what she did to D15 and asks for my permission to see them. If I filed right now, it’s full custody with visitation every other weekend with no sleep overs. That’s not an opinion. That’s the reality of the situation. Truth be told I could get her parental rights to D15 flat out terminated.

I’m certainly not trying to come off as weak. But I don’t know, maybe I am just being to soft and I need to tell D8 it’s
time to get over mom and let’s move on as a family. And just lets things fall where they land.


Me: 40
EX:37
Together 17 years
Married 16 years
5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11

BD 03/06/20, divorced 12/23/21
Joined: Feb 2017
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J,

I am glad you can take it straight because some here can't handle it.

You definitely don't want to tell D8 that it's time to get over mom.

It's tough because she really isn't going to come out of this until she hits rock bottom and understand the destruction she has done.

Unfortunately that is going to take a really long time.

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Well, I’m obviously an idiot. She told me she texted D8 and asked to see her Sunday. Yeah that didn’t happen. I checked D8 phone, absolutely nothing there. I asked D8 to make sure she didn’t just delete it, and nope. And she didn’t call on her lunch break either.

Can I get it straight. Is me waiting around a complete freaking lost cause? Has anyone ever heard of a sitch like mine were the couple reconciled? Or am I hoping to win the lottery of all lotteries by waiting for her?


Me: 40
EX:37
Together 17 years
Married 16 years
5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11

BD 03/06/20, divorced 12/23/21
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
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J,

It depends on what you do while waiting around. If you eat right, workout, read self help books and of course be the best dad you can be then you’re not wasting your time. As far as waiting on your W I would not say you’re hoping to win the lottery but it most likely has to get worse before it gets better. Also you the timeline you are likely looking at is anywhere between 2-7 years. I’m am really sorry that you are going through this right now.

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