I've been following along and again not a lawyer, but reading posts from folks who have gone through the process in your thread, it really seems like there is no reason you shouldn't get 50/50, the courts like to see that, it is widely understood that it is in the best interests of the children to have that, and you know and any reasonable person (= the definition of a good judge or mediator) will not hold the incident of grabbing one child who is kicking the other over you. Remember, these family court judges see real abuse. They also see spouses alleging BS abuse just like your W, and I think they are pretty good at knowing the difference.
In any case... re-read those posters who have been through this. Remind yourself why you are doing this-- for your kids. And finally-- stay consistent in response to her jumping back and forth. You probably have already done this, but if not write out reasonable, adult responses to her standard ping-pongy challenges-- #1 probably something like I disagree with your interpretation though I'm sorry you feel that way. I know I'm a good father and our children deserve 50/50 time with each parent; and #2 something like what's best for the kids is 50/50 time with each parent, and I agree that stability is important, which is why we need to work together now to create a stable 50/50 plan that starts as soon as possible.
Whether she likes it or not, this is the reality she's chosen for her children. I think you can't show her that her arguments are swaying you in any way by changing your response. I think you should be consistent and hold the line. You are a good dad. 50/50 is best for the kids. Nothing she can say will change those two fundamental truths.
Stay strong. You got this. I also like the idea of daily yoga or baking bread or learning a new skill that takes enough concentration for you to take a mental break from all the stress and anxiety every day.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I've been following along and again not a lawyer, but reading posts from folks who have gone through the process in your thread, it really seems like there is no reason you shouldn't get 50/50, the courts like to see that, it is widely understood that it is in the best interests of the children to have that, and you know and any reasonable person (= the definition of a good judge or mediator) will not hold the incident of grabbing one child who is kicking the other over you. Remember, these family court judges see real abuse. They also see spouses alleging BS abuse just like your W, and I think they are pretty good at knowing the difference.
I am prepared to defend myself in court at this point. The apology letters are the only thing I worry about.
When we attended MC1 in Fall 2018, my W had insisted I call the incident of grabbing my son's leg as abuse. When I indicated I didn't like using the word "abuse" to characterize the incident, my W flipped out angrily and stormed off. I remember immediately apologizing trying to smooth things over. I had NGS in spades... I just wanted to do or say anything to stop the angry lash-outs.
Our MR had been not going well for awhile prior to that. And for 6 months after the incident she insisted on calling "abuse", my W became even more distant. No affection. She would periodically have these late-night dump session where she would complain about 8 or 10 things she was unhappy about with me. I would listen non-defensively (I had been listening to couples' communication podcasts on the way to work). It was a completely SSM. I tried giving her a special birthday. I could do nothing right. She refused to talk about our R. By March 2019 when I found evidence she wanted a D, I desperately wanted to talk and pulled the car over on our way home from a rare night out. That was a poor decision on my part and I have always been prepared to be open and honest in talking about it.
She takes these 2 events and has created a narrative that I am a monster. And... I so badly wanted to fix things that I wrote the apology letters. I researched remorseful apologies. I researched abuse. She insisted that I was abusive, so I wrote apology letters from that perspective. Literally things like "if you ever feel you need to take the kids if things get scary I understand". I said I was passive-aggressive, and needed serious help, and on and on.
I am ashamed that I wrote those things. It is not who I believed I was. But I was willing to admit to those things to save my MR. It was... pathetic. I want to go back and stop myself. I could have said, "W, I have some things to work on, and I want to fight for our MR, but this is not all on me." Instead, I took all my flaws and magnified them a thousand-fold and thought somehow this was going to be good. It is embarrassing when I look back. Completely embarrassing.
Yes, I was P-A sometimes. I was walking on eggshells. I was not perfect. I was also not a monster, and I was WILLING to work on my issues and our MR. I saw the communication problems and wanted to work on them.
Those apology letters represent to me everything wrong with our MR. Taking sole responsibility for our issues. Accepting the blame. Accepting that I had some sort of psychological problem requiring serious treatment. Not standing up for my needs. Not standing up for my relationship with my kids. Assigning my self-worth to another person's approval.
Never again will I be in a relationship like that. I am 50% responsible for what happened, I don't blame my W 100%. I could have stopped it much earlier. Had I been willing to walk away for what I believed was right, maybe we would have righted the ship long before I found out about DB. But I didn't have the skills at the time. I accept that. I wasn't willing to walk away. I would have done ANYTHING to fix our MR. I wish I had found DB 2 months earlier.
Originally Posted by may22
#1 probably something like I disagree with your interpretation though I'm sorry you feel that way. I know I'm a good father and our children deserve 50/50 time with each parent; and #2 something like what's best for the kids is 50/50 time with each parent, and I agree that stability is important, which is why we need to work together now to create a stable 50/50 plan that starts as soon as possible.
I agree, these are my standard responses. I just noticed recently how her reaction to my #1 response is to jump to #2, and if I respond to #2 she jumps back to #1.
Originally Posted by may22
Whether she likes it or not, this is the reality she's chosen for her children. I think you can't show her that her arguments are swaying you in any way by changing your response. I think you should be consistent and hold the line. You are a good dad. 50/50 is best for the kids. Nothing she can say will change those two fundamental truths.
I'm never going to convince her I'm a good dad. I own the fact that those letters are contributing to her firm beliefs. I also believe I gave it my best effort this past year in a lousy deal... moving out of the marital home, going to MC2 for 6 months while W accused me of abuse but refused to talk about it (even though I was as non-defensive as I could be), continuing to pay for everything out of my income. We had our chance to resolve things more amicably.
Originally Posted by may22
Stay strong. You got this. I also like the idea of daily yoga or baking bread or learning a new skill that takes enough concentration for you to take a mental break from all the stress and anxiety every day.
Yes! I have on and off been trying to get into some hatha yoga this week actually. I like mixing the exercise and meditation aspects.
I know that was probably difficult for you to share. Your W has been clearly planning this D for a long time and always intended to use the "abuse card" against you. I told you about the quote by Peter Crone "life will present you will people and opportunities to show you where you are not free". This quote clearly pertains to you and I know it doesn't feel like it but is going to be the best thing that ever happen to you. You just have to have faith and move forward and deal with the letters if they come up. If you have a good lawyer he will show that you were clearly trying to do everything in you power to save the marriage. Your W is a monster and I want you make a pack to never back down to her again if it is not in your best interest.
I'm a little coy about what I post here, but rest assured I have legal counsel and a strategy in place. And if the letters come up I will face them if need be. I hope it doesn't go that far, because I think it will sow even more discord, but I can only control my part.
I can already tell I am a happier person than I was the last year of my MR pre-S. I'm excited about the happiness I will find in the future when this situation is more settled.
To piggyback on what LH said - in life happiness is a journey, not a destination.
I don't have much advice to give on the D situation. Try to live in the present moment. The future will be what it will be, and we cannot change the past.
When it seems like you only have two choices, remember that there are an infinite number of possibilities ahead of you. None of us know what will happen - I mean, this time last year, who could have predicted we would be in a worldwide pandemic right now? Very few, I would imagine.
Stay strong man - keep your reactions minimal, keep emotions out and show nothing but calm towards W when you do have interactions. That's what I'm working on too.
I think I posted some advice to you a long time ago and it still stands:
1. Dont attempt to counsel or mediate with your WAW. Your goal in MC should have been to not do MC. Sounds like you finally stopped doing that finally. Your goal in mediation is to make a fair offer, do not fold, and then let your L handle it. You made the right call by sending her an offer. Keep pushing this forward.
2. As for the letters and pulling over - these are non issues. Erase those from your brain and never mention or think of them again. Ever. You have written about them here about a billion times and clearly you are fixating your fears and anxiety on these events. If she brings them up in court so what. Judges are too concerned about kids who are in legitimate danger. No one but you gives a damn, and your WW doesnt give a damn either except these are super effective weapons to control you due to your insane levels of fear. She's still got you right under her thumb. I cant tell you how many times Ive seen WW's threaten BH with crap like this, the entire time laughing about it to their friends. Then 8 months later 'every other weekend dad' is back looking for custody because XWW is leaving her daughters alone with her meth-head boyfriend du jour. Your only fear should be the future welfare of your kids, and you should use that fear as motivation to move forward for their benefit instead of an excuse for cowering from your WAW.
IW ~ I agree there are no guarantees about the future. But I also need to press forward to dig out of the current circumstances. My anxiety tends to fix me in my present state. I understand "the illusion of action" but in my case that is a rule meant to broken and I intend to drive things towards conclusion, all while enjoying my life along the journey. I'm pretty sure 2 years from now I will look back and be thankful for this life-changing experience. Although I am an anxious wreck much of the time I am also much happier in ways than I have ever been at any point in my life.
fade ~ Fear has dictated my life the past year plus. I completely agree. Often irrational and exaggerated fear. I have a fantastic L and I am prepared to go all the way to defend myself and seek what I believe is fair.
But I also need to press forward to dig out of the current circumstances. My anxiety tends to fix me in my present state. I understand "the illusion of action" but in my case that is a rule meant to broken and I intend to drive things towards conclusion, all while enjoying my life along the journey.
Just a word of caution here, U. This "conclusion" you are driving toward is a legal one, not an IRL forever one. As long as you have 3 young kids together, you are going to have to figure out a way to constructively communicate with your W for the foreseeable future, D or no D. That's why I wrote about being calm, detaching, not letting anxiety or fear dictate how you interact. This isn't over as long as you are coparenting - and it would be wise to begin preparing for what comes next.
Originally Posted by Unchien
I'm pretty sure 2 years from now I will look back and be thankful for this life-changing experience.
I always find it interesting the way people view life. I see things completely different than this - but that's ok, everyone has a different perspective. IMO I dont think much about the future anymore, aside from practical things or overall personal life goals I want to achieve (got a great list going, I recommend this highly to anyone). Maybe it's also because every anxious and panicked thought I had about the future a year and a half ago did not come true whatsoever, and I am finding out what a waste of my time and energy that was lol.
Originally Posted by unchien
Although I am an anxious wreck much of the time I am also much happier in ways than I have ever been at any point in my life.
I am glad you are finding yourself happier - that is good news. I would recommend exploring ways to reduce your anxiety with IC, though. I'm working at this and will probably continue to work at this for the rest of my life.
Also, one more thing. IMO fade is right. Stop giving so much power to those letters and the car incident. They happened, you cant change that. You didnt hurt anyone, your kids are fine. Letting those things have power over you serves no purpose other than to keep your anxiety rooted in place.
IW ~ Thanks for chiming in. You touched upon a lot of things I am striving for.
There is so much going on with my situation - custody, the house, support, finances - but I prefer to leave most of that out of my posts. It is a frustrating mess, but I feel good that I am taking non-emotional steps.
Unfortunately 3 months in we have almost zero agreement on any item. My W wants to grant me another weekend each month, but keep S8 at her house while I have the girls, and I want more involvement during the weekdays (school, activity, etc.). She wants to defer final parenting decisions down the road, with the advice of evaluators and therapists. After how things developed the past year, I don't trust her to ever truly be open to a more balanced parenting arrangement. I understand that the erosion of trust between parents can have awful consequences for the children. But it is what it is... I need a clear custody arrangement that gets us headed to 50-50.
My W does refer to the letters. She mentions how S8 is having difficulty adjusting, and claims he's scared of me. I know that custody evaluators see this sort of thing all the time. I know without a long-term custody plan spelled out up front, she will never grant me more time in the future.
Regarding the house, my income is short several thousand dollars per month to pay for everything. The mortgage on the marital home is larger than the maximum support I would ever have to pay. Each month this delays I am depleting everything that we worked for, my future, and the kids' future. We had agreed to sell the home 2 months ago, and now she wants to visit a complicated buy-out even though she doesn't have cash to do so. The clock is ticking and nothing is really resolving.
I hope we can co-parent well in the future. It is going to be difficult with her "safety concerns" constantly in the way of us effectively communicating. Hopefully at some point she relaxes. Maybe we could mediate and work through this. It would probably take at least a year. MC2 last year (for 6 months) resulted in no substantial changes. Or... I can go the legal route, establish custody, extract myself from this financial morass (to a degree). It will add to the rancor and discord between STBXW and me. It is probably worse for our kids. It's not necessarily going to make me any happier. It's not entirely within my control whether she wants to be reasonable. Unfortunately, if she's not willing to compromise in mediation, then I'm really forced to choose the legal options. I'm comfortable with this. I've been tormented about it for months now, but I have come to peace the last month.
I took a co-parenting class this winter on my own initiative, and also have read 2 books thus far. I am ready and willing to make this work with STBXW. Unfortunately, we may be on the parallel parenting track for awhile. I am informed enough to know what works with co-parenting, and trying to do my part, but realistically STBXW and I are going to need a trained counselor to help us out.
Unfortunately, STBXW has been digging in her heels on custody, clearly does not see my involvement in the kids' weekday lives as valuable (or wants to postpone the decision - which, c'mon, how many times has a father signed up to postpone custody and then actually gotten it?), to the point I am left with almost no options except one. She sells the mediator that we can work this out in the future, and I don't believe we can. It's the same sad story that plays out in a lot of high conflict divorces and other than backing down, I see no way at this point except to use the legal machinery available. It's disappointing, but hey... I'm not going to let my disappointment stop me from doing what I think is right and in accordance with my values.
