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unchien #2893330 04/25/20 09:25 PM
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Journal ~

My W was texting me yesterday that she was confused about my position. She does this frequently - "I'm so confused." My L sent her a partial settlement offer the week before that made my position very clear. I was frustrated with the pace of mediation and the topics of focus, so I felt like presenting an offer that, if accepted, would allow us to continue to mediate the remaining items.

She acted as if I had made a "take it or leave it" offer and there was no room for her to respond. She acted as if making an offer outside of mediation was a transgression. The mediator seems upset. My position is that I am trying to resolve issues. My offer was more than fair, and she could have responded with a counter.

This has a bit of a gaslighting feel to it. I recognize the pattern that she refuses to see her role in the problem. Accusing me of involving lawyers, making this expensive, not having the kids' best interest in mind. I realize now she has rarely (I would say "never" but I try to avoid absolutes) been a person to own up to her role in relationship conflict, whether with me, her family, her friends, my family. If you asked about her role in our MR failure, I suspect she would say "I'm sorry that I agreed to move 3 years ago" or "I'm sorry I didn't push UC to get help earlier".

I ended up having a (very careful) text exchange yesterday to make my position clear. She said I "didn't let her" write a written offer (WTH, did I withhold a pencil?) -- to be clear, she had offered some plan where we revisit custody in a year (or at least that's what it sounded like to me) at which point I said "no". But I stated on the text exchange that she is welcome to make any offer.

Why am I bothering to do this? Well, I don't want her "confusion" to lead us down the road of spending 6 figures in court, provided we can avoid that with some simple negotiations. She now states that 50-50 is her long-term goal as well (I'm sure there will be contingencies if she offers this, but we will see). I have to keep in mind that 6 months ago she asked if I would let her move away with the kids -- I know how she views the importance of my role in our childrens' lives. Whether I get it or not, she does not view 50-50 as best for the kids.

I can't share more. Other things are going on and I'm comfortable with my L's strategy. I just felt like it was worth making it clear that my W can make an offer at any time and we can move things through. Mediation is not working because there is little respect for my needs (as I see it). Trying to navigate this minefield without driving myself crazy problem-solving. We'll get there soon enough, even if we spend down our futures to get there.

unchien #2893333 04/25/20 10:10 PM
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Hi Unchien,

Glad to hear you're moving down the path to 50/50!

"The mediator seems upset." Any idea why? Didn't you make it clear more than once in mediation that only a path to 50/50 not contingent on your wife's feelings works for you, and mediation was taken long to get there? "I don't agree with her characterization of events, of who I am, and that we would end up in court if there is not movement." I believe you also made a personal offer outside mediation before your lawyer sent an offer. It's exciting seeing you take action to change things!

unchien #2893384 04/26/20 05:24 PM
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The mediator is a retired judge and he thought I was circumventing the process with a demanding offer instead of following the mediation process. Of course he also does not know the full history of the last year plus - my apology letters meant to save our MR (before I found DB), the implicit threats about my parenting, etc. Medistors technically have no power and I’m trying to work towards a solution without this dragging out interminably.

unchien #2893462 04/27/20 04:57 PM
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Journal ~

This next phase is going to be tough. Costs are skyrocketing. Tensions are running high. And there is a bit of a ticking clock where things may get worse on that front soon. Ugh.

I'll have my kids for a few hours today. Usually I feel a whole lot better when they are around, although sometimes my oldest is wound up during these short visits. Sometimes he is moody, or lets me know he thinks everything is my fault. I know they are big feelings, he is only 8, and he is going through a lot. I try to just listen and be there for him. So much weight on his shoulders, poor kid.

I continue to struggle with this combination of my situation and the quarantine. I can see how I need to really double-down on self-care -- keep busy, find some things to do outside my comfort zone (maybe a daily yoga session?) I find myself stressed out about tangential things sometimes, things that would normally not stress me out (for instance, what will I make for dinner when my kids come over, will S8 be upset, etc.). I know it's the anxiety tornado - if I can separate out the one or two driving thoughts, I can disarm the tangential ones.

I'm going to have to pull myself up and get through this way or another. I am trying. But I feel I am spending a lot of time and energy flailing.

unchien #2893491 04/27/20 08:17 PM
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Quote
Sometimes he is moody, or lets me know he thinks everything is my fault. I know they are big feelings, he is only 8, and he is going through a lot. I try to just listen and be there for him. So much weight on his shoulders, poor kid.

In the coming months and years he will be looking for consistency. He will want to see evidence that no matter what happens you will love him. He wants to know that you will not give up on him even when he gets angry or blames you for everything.

Quote
I'm going to have to pull myself up and get through this way or another. I am trying. But I feel I am spending a lot of time and energy flailing.

Unchien I have to say that I have admired what you have done. I did not take the route you did but divorced immediately and now have been going through the same thing you are (accusations of abuse, etc...) but luckily I have the divorce decree to fall back on. You tried your best and I think everyone here has been giving you good advice but it leans heavily on DB methods. I personally believe your wife and my ex require methods in addition to DB. They are actively out to hurt us with false accusations, gaslighting, using children as weapons against us, attack emotional weaknesses, and threats to make us hurt. This is not just about leaving us but about exacting revenge from something that they experienced earlier in life, and we are the ones it will be inflicted upon. I don't think this applies to most situations here at least to this extreme but your wife is highly abusive and you need to fight for your children and protect yourself as much as possible. I would contact her as little as possible and only through email, document everything, if you can do it through mediator or lawyer do that. Any contact with her will be used against you or will be manipulated in such a way by her as to harm you. I tried to give my ex her mail during a pick up and the next day got a formal email accusing me of abusing her during the exchange. I never went within 6 ft of her and have witnesses, and thank goodness I did, or I would have been hauled off to jail. I would not try to negotiate with her outside of mediation or through your lawyer, contact through email only, careful what you say about her around anyone because it will be found out by her, do not I repeat do not agree to anything less than 50/50 custody immediately. No validation because that will be used against you, use active listening to make sure you can clarify what she is saying and nothing else. Start researching parallel parenting because unless she makes changes to herself she is a danger to you and your children. Work on yourself in IC and look at books that talk about women abusing men, setting boundaries, and protecting oneself against toxic people. This is not to see yourself as a victim but instead will help you create healthy boundaries to protect yourself from falling into the same trap. Work on methods to reduce your anxiety. Learn the love languages of your children and realize you are an amazing father. I know you are probably doing most if not all of these things but sometimes it is nice to have another tell you.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
unchien #2893598 04/28/20 07:12 PM
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Thanks rooskers. I agree on so many of your points, in particular using Active Listening rather than Validation. It is nice to see all this advice spelled out clearly in a single post. I try to handle my business the way you describe, but reminders are very helpful.

I feel like W wants to engage in "truth battles" constantly. DB advice would be to let it go, ignore her narrative, it doesn't matter. Unfortunately when it comes to mediation and legal proceedings, some of these issues are critical to address. There is a slipperiness to her version of the truth. If I partially agree, it is taken as full agreement. My version of history is questioned, dissected, etc.

This is why I am insistent on agreements being formally documented and not informal one-sentence agreements. I don't trust. It's business to me, and like any business arrangement, I want it formalized. Nothing personal. It is absolutely exhausting and I find her extremely difficult to work with. Her attitude is that I am the one making all sorts of changes and requests (because she currently doesn't work, lives in an unaffordable house, and refuses to agree to 50-50 long-term, so the changes do need to happen primarily on her side). I hear things like "I'm trying to respect your needs and everything you want" yet she will not budge on the one item that matters to me above all else.

I have a few books on how to deal with toxic people (from dealing with issues with my FOO). You are right about the advice being the same here. Boundaries in particular. And letting the small stuff go.

I imagine we will be parallel parenting for awhile. Maybe long-term we will settle into something healthier for the children. I certainly want that. But I will not be doing so at the expense of my rights as a father.

Lately for pick-up/drop-offs we barely look at each other. W always has sunglasses on. Little words are exchanged. I try to remain pleasant. Things are tense, everyone is on edge, and it might get worse soon. It's all so disappointing to me -- we have 3 beautiful children who are doing an incredible job adapting. We both love them very much. They are truly great kids. If she could move past the idea that I am some abusive unrepentant monster I think we could all start to move on and heal. Otherwise this is heading down a long, drawn-out, expensive, emotionally challenging road that seems completely unnecessary to me.

I look back at the apology letters I wrote and I am horrified by my willingness to just completely emasculate myself for the sake of saving a MR which was absolutely lousy at that point.

unchien #2893691 04/29/20 05:40 PM
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Journal ~

I feel like this custody issue is holding up my ability to move on and heal.

I wonder if I should feel so weighed down by it. Or if I am falsely assuming once this issue is resolved, I will feel much better. It certainly feels that way to me now.

Implicit threats about withholding the children if I don't update W what we are doing. Refusing thus far to agree to a long-term 50-50 arrangement. Constant allusions to "the past" and the letters I wrote.

I can't live and parent like this. It is unreasonable.

- If my kids are playing with a toy sword at my house, I am worried.

- If one of my kids falls riding their bike and skins their knee, I am worried.

- If one of my kids asks for me to snuggle them in bed, I am worried.

- If my kids misbehave, I am worried if I come across too strongly in addressing the situation.

I know some of this is irrational fear. 95% of this stuff is inconsequential. But fundamentally, I am in a legally precarious situation where any little thing may be used against me. It s*cks being constantly worried. I want to start healing with my kids and adjusting to our new lives.

My W will jump back and forth between 2 reasons to refuse 50-50:

1. allegations about "the past"

2. "what's best for the kids" - i.e., minimal changes to their lives (W keeps house, W works as little as possible, kids stay in all their activities which minimizes my weekday parenting time)

When I refute one, she points to the other. If I address #1 she says I am "in denial" and she believes long term I can be redeemed. If I address #2 she says the kids need "stability".

Anyways, I am continuing to press and not backing down. I just hope that we can resolve this soon and that my panicky feelings subside.

unchien #2893696 04/29/20 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by unchien
I feel like this custody issue is holding up my ability to move on and heal..

Could be but I think other things are holding you back.
Originally Posted by unchien
I wonder if I should feel so weighed down by it. Or if I am falsely assuming once this issue is resolved, I will feel much better. It certainly feels that way to me now..

Falsely assuming
Originally Posted by unchien
Implicit threats about withholding the children if I don't update W what we are doing. Refusing thus far to agree to a long-term 50-50 arrangement. Constant allusions to "the past" and the letters I wrote..

I wish you would have nipped this in the bud a long time ago.
Originally Posted by unchien
I can't live and parent like this. It is unreasonable..

It's very unreasonable and again I wish you wouldn't have aloud it to start.
Originally Posted by unchien
- If my kids are playing with a toy sword at my house, I am worried..

Because you're afraid of your Wife
Originally Posted by unchien
- If one of my kids falls riding their bike and skins their knee, I am worried..

Because you're afraid of your Wife
Originally Posted by unchien
- If one of my kids asks for me to snuggle them in bed, I am worried..

Because you're afraid of your Wife
Originally Posted by unchien
- If my kids misbehave, I am worried if I come across too strongly in addressing the situation..

Because you're afraid of your Wife
Originally Posted by unchien
I know some of this is irrational fear. 95% of this stuff is inconsequential. But fundamentally, I am in a legally precarious situation where any little thing may be used against me. It s*cks being constantly worried. I want to start healing with my kids and adjusting to our new lives..

If you're innocent of any wrong doing there is nothing to worry about.
Originally Posted by unchien
1. allegations about "the past".

Which are all BS right?
Originally Posted by unchien
2. "what's best for the kids" - i.e., minimal changes to their lives (W keeps house, W works as little as possible, kids stay in all their activities which minimizes my weekday parenting time).

Best for the kids to spend as much time with their dad as possible
Originally Posted by unchien
When I refute one, she points to the other. If I address #1 she says I am "in denial" and she believes long term I can be redeemed. If I address #2 she says the kids need "stability"..

You can't let her bully you
Originally Posted by unchien
Anyways, I am continuing to press and not backing down. I just hope that we can resolve this soon and that my panicky feelings subside.

I wish you the best U.

unchien #2893698 04/29/20 06:26 PM
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Yes, what LH said. You going for 50/50 custody of your children is not dependent on how your W feels or what she thinks. Right now, she is not on your team, therefore she has no say in you pursuing 50/50.

Do your best not to worry about your W. She will be upset, but that is not your problem.


Me:45 ExW:48
M:04/97
3 Bombs & 2 ReCons
1st BD 11/10
D Finalized 4/20
D-16 S-14
Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
unchien #2893701 04/29/20 06:59 PM
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LH ~ What else do you think is holding me back?

I am afraid of my W, yes. This is largely based on the apology letters I wrote, and fear of being in court with an aggressive attorney going after me, but I will admit that is not the only reason, and I need further work on that.

LITB ~ Thanks for the response. I am pursuing 50/50 and will continue to do so.

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