Pommy you have been overtly clear from the get go about what you want and what you are willing to do to get it. There is no guess work to be had. It's why he's been waffling for so long. He knows what you have to offer but isn't emotionally in a place to commit to that yet. If he seriously wants to know why you're hot and cold it's pretty simple, you are responding appropriately to his indecision. If he wants a hot and bothered panther in the sheets and an emotionally available wife he needs to provide an environment where you are able to do that safely. He has plenty of expectations for you. While as LBS we're asked to keep our expectations low, the expectation of not being 100% the wife he wants until he's the husband you need isn't out of the realm of reality. We are not required to expect absolutely nothing of them and give them 100% of what they want. Next NC isn't simply to teach WS/WAS a lesson. It's a coping mechanism. If you think you can be friendly, or h3ll, even flirty without getting your heart and emotions swept up you're welcome to do that. But most LBSs simple can't. So we don't. Some are more adept at it than others. R2C, I think it was, was very encouraging about the art of seduction, but I'm really good at separating sex and love. I'm capable of keeping H on the line for the benefit of my needs. That's not every one's bag. You have to use these techniques to help you survive this. And the ones that help you in particular to make the best decisions for you you can make. None of this stuff is truly, truly to reel these WS/WAS back in. It's to be that person they can't walk away from. A strong confident, I got me, kind of person.
I am still struggling with the business like/treat him like a neigbour approach. As Sage (I think) wrote on her thread, when you know that you've been emotionally/physically unavailable in your marrige, continuing to act that way surely just reinfoces their belief that that is who you are and you will never change. I've spent a year trying to be both emotionally and physically available and now I feel like I'm withdrawing it again. So how can he ever trust that I am that kind and compassionate person that he married, when I put it out there, then take it away, put it out there, take it away, etc?
I’m with you, sister. Struggling with the same internal battles. I know that each person here is working on right-siding their R’s, but the balance of DBing with a spouse that has felt neglected for a long time is particularly challenging. I definitely feel like I am damned if I do, damned if I don’t. It’s a huge amount of pressure.
But all the voices on your thread are correct: if he wants to be in a M with you, he knows where to find you. Your job right now is to be the best you can be for YOU, not him. Everything else has failed to bring the results you want and need. My dad used to remind me that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What haven’t you tried yet?
I am working really hard on ‘dropping the rope’, which feels like the least harmful approach I can take right now. It allows me to be authentic to myself, feel all the feelings, and be my kind, open self, but no longer be attached to what’s going on at the end of the rope. It also feels like the best way I can not mess it all up with the push-pull of emotional presence vs absence (which can start to feel like a game as it’s not really my authentic self). It’s up to him to pick it up that rope and then it will be up to me to decide if I want to re-engage.
I also want to just add that the reason why the push-pull of detachment feels like a ‘game’ to me is probably just because I am not very good at it. I’m sure that the vets would argue that there is nothing about it that is a game (afterall, just as May said, it’s not to punish or reward the WAS). So maybe take that comment of mine with a grain of salt. It’s just my newness to this all.
I agree with WF-- your H absolutely knows where you stand on all of this. You don't need to push the emotionally/physically available side right now because you don't need to be emotionally and physically available to an H who has walked out the door! That just seems wrong and inappropriate. He's being an incredibly self-centered a-hole and if he wonders why you aren't emotionally available to him and brings it up, to me it all boils down to-- he left. He walked. He chose this. He said he wanted time and space and you are giving it to him, exactly as he has asked.
One kind of harsh analogy I've seen the vets posting is about you being "fired" as a wife, and to stop doing any wifely things because you've been fired. That if you were fired from a job, you wouldn't keep trying to do the job better and better in front of the boss who fired you in the hopes that the boss would see you are doing better and maybe would want to hire you back. I always had a hard time connecting to that analogy, but I think there is some truth in there. Maybe, if it helps, you can think about your sitch through that lens?
In terms of worrying that you're reinforcing the belief that you're still this cold, uncaring person he thinks you are from the issues in the M... I had this, 100% too. However, this is something my H had built up in his head for YEARS and I think it will take years to undo. He's still angry that it happened and even somewhat angry that I've changed, because it makes his behavior feel worse-- and of course that is an uncomfortable place to be. By definition, these WHs don't have the emotional maturity to really handle any of this, because if they did they wouldn't be behaving the way they are. I think there is a lot of cognitive dissonance going on for our Hs and they HAVE to feel that you can't change in order to justify their own actions. I honestly don't think you could do anything that would convince him of your change until he's ready to see it. He'll just think you're luring him back and as soon as he's firmly back in his corral, it's back to the same old same old for the rest of his life. He'll see what he wants to see, at least where he is right now.
On the push-pull dynamic- first, again, YOU aren't the one driving the putting it out there, taking it away, etc. He is the one who decided to leave. He doesn't get to have you waiting at home, frisky in bed, taking care of his children and home and medications and emotionally supporting him through trying to decide if he wants a divorce. Sorry!!
I can also absolutely relate to feeling like the pursuer-distancer dynamic is a bit of a game. I remember so clearly the first time it came out clearly in my sitch, when I started to work on the D scenario and my H flipped out and started saying hey, let's not go so fast, you know there's a scenario here where the children never really need to know this happened, etc. I was like OH! This is what they're talking about! But again, I think you have to kind of ruthlessly put down those random thoughts that want to draw you back in to being the pursuer again. You know that doesn't work. Think of it like tough love for both of you-- that might help with not feeling cold or uncaring. You're doing what is right for both of you in this situation. He's asked for space. You are giving it to him. He'll never know what it is like to have space if you don't let him have it.
I still think that the best thing for you to do is to stick to what is working-- maintaining the distance while you focus on yourself. That is both best for you no matter what happens, and also happens to be very effective with your H, as long as you can be consistent.
Stay strong for yourself and your kids. This is probably going to get worse before it gets better, but you're doing the best you can for yourself and your children. You can't beat yourself up over things that happened in the past (like the SSM) or try to over-compensate for it now. The time for that has passed. (My H said something along those lines in our last R talk, even though we've been sleeping together again since January. Again. A marathon not a sprint.)
Hang in there, Pommy. Have you filled the birdseed up yourself yet??
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Pommy, I totally get what you're feeling. Even now I still sometimes almost backtrack and think that what I'm doing is wrong. When I feel like I'm not doing the right thing, I trace back my steps since BD and would eventually come to the same conclusion - there is no other way (for me).
For example, as my H and I are moving closer to D, I was questioning whether I have done everything I could for our M up to this point. "Am I giving up too quickly? Do I need to fight him tooth and nail for our M? Am I acquiescing to the state of our M?" Then I remembered that few months ago when I was still showing warmth and care, when we still had some level of intimacy, that I was not happy. Like wayfarer said, I knew I could not do it. I could not pretend that everything is fine and dandy and even accept his desire of intimacy when I knew he was nowhere close to coming back. I had to set a boundary, and once I did, my H denied the facts and was gastlighting me.
I don't know whether what I'm doing will lead to R. So far it seems very unlikely. But I know the other way around - me being emotionally and physically available to him when he is still on his alien planet - will eat me alive.
Hey all I wanted to reply to your posts above but have a bit of a drama going on with H today and really need some advice how to handle this.
So I still have really backed off this week again, took kids to H 2 days ago and he commented "wow" how nice I looked etc, he told the kids that evening how nice mum looked. Next day went to pick up D14, later H tells D16 how "hot" i was looking the last 2 days. Also said he missed me. They started talking about studies and D16 said seh wanted to follow a career path as an xxx and mum has a friend who is an xxx and is going to get some advice about it. So H knows that the xxx is someone I was chatting to online and makes a comment about it (D16 had no idea and had assumed it was a female friend)
Today I get a txt: H: Hiya can I ask you a personal Q Me: Erm...what is it? H: You and your xxx friend, how serious are you with him? Me: I'm not sure why you are asking me that H: I hadn't been looking elsewhere and I wanted to see if you've moved on now
So I'm in a spin, I feel sick and I dont know what to do - ignore, respond. I dont know if he's checking if I'm Plan B still, or if he wants to start dating and if he knows that I am building friendships, he wont feel guilty about dating himself.
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
I'm no expert but I think he is starting to have the fear of loss... only because he has been commenting on your appearance and the recent false start.
I don't know what to tell you to do - someone else will have to weigh in with that advice.
I have a few reactions I'd want to give but I don't know if most of them are actually going to be helpful to you. Asking "Are you f-ing serious right now?" is my gut instinct and probably why I'm still very much in limbo...lol. Seriously though that's just going to poke the bear. It's probably best to respond with a shrug emoji and then say "You gotta do what you you gotta do." He can take that any d@mn way he pleases. It could be you are doing what you need to do. It could be he should do whatever it is he needs to do. That stopped being his business the second he fired you as his wife. Why does he care? He can't be looking for your blessing to sleep with other people. He's already gone outside your marriage without your permission. What could possibly be different now? He walked away. That means no more besties. He doesn't get your inner life. And he sure as h3ll doesn't get an explanation about a budding romance/friendship/chatting with some guy, what ever it may be.
Hey all I wanted to reply to your posts above but have a bit of a drama going on with H today and really need some advice how to handle this.
So I still have really backed off this week again, took kids to H 2 days ago and he commented "wow" how nice I looked etc, he told the kids that evening how nice mum looked. Next day went to pick up D14, later H tells D16 how "hot" i was looking the last 2 days. Also said he missed me. They started talking about studies and D16 said seh wanted to follow a career path as an xxx and mum has a friend who is an xxx and is going to get some advice about it. So H knows that the xxx is someone I was chatting to online and makes a comment about it (D16 had no idea and had assumed it was a female friend)
Today I get a txt: H: Hiya can I ask you a personal Q Me: Erm...what is it? H: You and your xxx friend, how serious are you with him? Me: I'm not sure why you are asking me that H: I hadn't been looking elsewhere and I wanted to see if you've moved on now
So I'm in a spin, I feel sick and I dont know what to do - ignore, respond. I dont know if he's checking if I'm Plan B still, or if he wants to start dating and if he knows that I am building friendships, he wont feel guilty about dating himself.
You should have told him no and that he lost that right when you separated. He wants you on the hook as a fall back option. The longer you allow that to happen the longer you will suffer.
