Limbo over, now separated but in lockdown (part 3)

[Pommy99]

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884718&page=1

Quick summary, WAH who has been very indecisive/confused over the last year, ILYB, on/off EA, finally moved out 2 weeks ago (mid March). He suggested a trial separation so he could have some time/space. I disagreed and stated that a separation is a separation - no rules.

One week later we went into C-19 lockdown. Since he moved out I have seen him every day bar one. The 4 of us are allowed to see the 4 of us and move the children between our respective houses. He is here every day. He has lunch, coffee, we do shopping for each other. If he’s not here, he’ll regularly message or call. A couple of times I’ve had to be firm and remind him that he doesn’t live here and can’t just walk in, help himself to food etc as it is no longer his home.

This isn’t what separation is supposed to look like. He wanted time/space. Coronavirus has meant he has to wfh and can see no-one, except us. He is lonely and miserable in a rental, with no garden, and no family.

I haven’t initiated talks, I’ve let him tell me. He says he still questions why he felt the need to leave, he’s told me a few time he misses me. I’ve acted like I’ve moved on, that we’re done, I’ve turned down his multiple requests to exercise together. He’s been tactile, always touching my arm, massaging my shoulder.

But yesterday I went against DB and I told him I missed him when he gave me a hug. He said he missed me too. I said I just want you to come home. Wrong move, I know. He held me closer and said let’s just see what happens. Which I know means nothing has changed, and I wouldn’t expect it to in 2weeks. Why did I say that!

I need to learn how to use lockdown to my advantage, because I think we may have another 8 weeks at least if government statements today are indicative of what is in the pipeline.

Right now H and I need each other, but probably him more than me. It’s a tough balance being supportive in times of crisis, whilst wanting him to keep a distance, just like he needed. I’m pretty certain if life was running as normal, I would have 1/10th of the contact I have with him now, and that would be on his terms.

[KitCat]

So I haven't much to offer but to appreciate your resilience in your sitch having gone on for over a year. I find the last 8 weeks of my life to be exhausting.

No one is perfect and who would blame you for taking a soft sweet moment and asking him to come home... ultimately it has to be his decision.

I had the same problems as H would leave for days at a time but insisted this was still his home... coming I and out on a whim left me anxious and stressed. Your H is moved out but still there all the time... like he didnt move out but has the ultimate man cave now elsewhere. That has to be hard. Frankly, while I know it's best for me to H gone I miss the moments when he was here even in an angry capacity.

Know that someone thinks of you... hugs!

[may22]

Hi Pommy,

I've been thinking about you. I know you've said it makes you really anxious to have him around so much, and the "let's see what happens" non-response is super annoying.

Here's a thought-- can you significantly reduce the amount of time you're in contact with him and letting him come around? He said he needed space... lucky for him, he has it in spades. He made the choice to MO, not you. He now needs to understand what that means, and coming over every single day for lunch is not S! (Beyond the fantasy S/D that our Hs seem to cultivate.)

What I'm wondering is if he has some days totally on his own in his rental, then OK to come over for a lunch or something during which time you can be as fun and happy and supportive as you want, and then he walks back out the door to his sad rental for another few days on his own. You don't answer the phone when he calls unless you feel like it. You don't need to have him in your space unless you feel like it. If it gives you anxiety... say no. Focus right now on what is best for YOU and the kids. He has focusing on himself covered, no need for you to waste any mental energy thinking about his best interests, right?

If you need ammo think about the butt dial conversation you overheard. That would give me enough fuel to last for awhile.

These interactions need to be on your terms, not his. I think listening to your own emotional responses are important, and if you are feeling uncomfortable with the power dynamic and a little bit like he's using you right now... then don't let that happen. For me, the fantasy D scenario where we were still best friends and had dinner together every night was incredibly infuriating for me, and I was a broken record in saying it would never, ever happen. I worry a little bit because of the coronavirus situation, your H is getting a taste of the fantasy S, and he won't be able to understand that it is just because of the coronavirus that this is happening and feel like it is a real possibility in the future where he could pop in for lunch and for some emotional support when he needs it-- all on his terms, of course.

HUGS. I know this is so crazy and hard. You're doing incredibly well.

[Pommy99]

May, I have been thinking the exact same thing - this is all playing nicely into his fantasy S/D scenario whereby we are best friends and do everything together (except have sex) . I don’t want to be his BFF, the only role I would consider is as his wife.

D13 is incredibly confused and upset by everything. She doesn’t understand why he said he needed time and space if he was going to turn up every day, see us chat, laugh, hug, top up the bird feeders, empty bins etc. I imagine she feels and wants the same as me and the uncertainty of his behaviours is causing her anxiety. Unfortunately, I can’t tell a 13 y.o. to have no expectations, or that most likely he won’t come back, or that we need to move on as if he wasn’t coming back. She is clinging onto the hope that one day her family unit will be restored.

I am definitely going to try hard not to see him this week. I’d like him to just stay in the car when he collects the kids, but I don’t want to come across as pushing him away or being awkward. It’s tricky.

[may22]

How your H's behavior is affecting your children must be so, so difficult. And of course she is clinging onto that hope... I read that children can do that for years. My aunt and uncle divorced when their two daughters were in middle/high school, and years later after the H had gotten remarried (same old $hitty story, he left her for his high school GF, that didn't work out (surprise!!) and he ended up marrying someone else down the line) the four of them were together at one of the daughters' college graduations, without the new wife. The girls were so happy and one of them said to her mom at the end of the night,... mom, isn't this nice? Maybe you guys will get back together. And it broke the mom's heart that the kids were still thinking that after all those years and she had to say no, sweetheart, it is never going to happen.

Anyway, it is totally natural that she thinks that and (not being a child pychologist) don't know how to handle it, but my guess is that you don't want to tell her he won't come back or anything like that... you just need to make sure she knows you are there for her 100% and love her more than anything and you know it is hard and are here for her to talk to. Maybe there are resources out there for you, books, etc to be sure you know how to support her the best you can through this?

Also, I feel enraged at your H for doing this to your kids. (Sorry, I do!!) Can he please get his head out of his own selfish a$$ and stop thinking about himself for one sorry second and think about how his behavior is affecting the children? I'm sorry if that isn't helpful... but it just is so infuriating to me that these WSs are so caught up in their own needs/wants that they forget that they are parents and their children are watching every move they're making and internalizing them.

One thought-- can you have the bins already taken out and the bird feeders filled the next time he comes over?

[Pommy99]

I think I have done pretty well this week in limiting contact with H. All contact made has been initiated by him - and there has been a LOT.

As predicted by AS earlier in this thread, H seems to be pursuing big time - calls, texts, hugs, even liking everything I post on FB etc.

On Weds night he dropped off the kids, I’d fed the birds and put the bin out (thanks May), but he came into the kitchen and I was totally upbeat and chatty . I remained on my bar stool when he said he was leaving but he walked across the kitchen and asked for a hug goodbye. He asked how I was and I said great, and he told me he felt really mixed up and confused (and that my perfume smelt nice). I tried to validate but all I could do was say oh dear that must be very...um ... confusing for you. And we just giggled about it. Next day...this is super weird...he messaged me first thing to say he’d seen a job advertised that he was interested in. It’s for the same company and the same location that I work. I mean WTF, why would he want to work in the same place as me?? I thought he’s either making excuses to contact me or he realises he’s been a complete knob over the last year with his city parallel life and want to work close to home. I had more texts and calls later that day which I did not respond to or pick up. We did however exchange txts late afternoon and he told me he was in a bad place. I suggested he call a friend rather than try and deal with it all on his own.

Today he sent an early message to say hi and asked if I was ok and if I feel I am in a better place now. I said I don’t want to get into this over text but would talk f2f if there was anything he wanted to know or ask me. So he replied to ask if we could talk over the weekend.

So...what does he want to talk about? I get the feeling he really thinks plan b is slipping away. I need to be careful not to get reeled in, let him think I am available, and then watch him disappear again.

I’ve been running through scenarios in my head. What if he says he wants to work things out? What if he says he loves me? What if...what if.... there’s also a part of me that thinks he might want to know that I AM in a better place so he can tell me he wants a D and not feel guilty. I don’t want to second guess him but I do want to be prepared.

For now I will continue to keep my distance and not put any expectations on the weekend talks. I honestly don’t think 3 weeks of separation is sufficient for either of us to make any big decisions. I’m just really interested in what he has to say though. We’ve played this pursuer-distancer game so many times before

[AnotherStander]

As predicted by AS earlier in this thread, H seems to be pursuing big time - calls, texts, hugs, even liking everything I post on FB etc.

You've got to be careful here because if you let yourself get lured in then he will go right back to distancing. Right now it's not based on any real interest in getting back together, it's just a temp check.

I mean WTF, why would he want to work in the same place as me?? I thought he’s either making excuses to contact me or he realises he’s been a complete knob over the last year with his city parallel life and want to work close to home.

Honestly it sounds like another temp check. He's checking for a reaction. Don't give him one. Just reply back with something generic like "I'm sure you'll get it all figured out".

I had more texts and calls later that day which I did not respond to or pick up.

Good!

We did however exchange txts late afternoon and he told me he was in a bad place. I suggested he call a friend rather than try and deal with it all on his own.

Minor point but don't try to fix him, just listen and validate. "I hear you saying you're in a bad place, that sounds scary, is that how you feel?"

Today he sent an early message to say hi and asked if I was ok and if I feel I am in a better place now. I said I don’t want to get into this over text but would talk f2f if there was anything he wanted to know or ask me. So he replied to ask if we could talk over the weekend.

Get into what? YOU validate HIM, not the other way around. If he asks how you are doing then just say "Fantastic!" and leave it at that. Remember Sandi's rules!

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

So...what does he want to talk about?

Probably the same old junk. He's torn but he thinks he's done, he doesn't think you're trying hard enough, the attraction isn't there, blah blah blah. Just listen and validate. And next time don't invite him over. Do you invite someone over once a week to punch you in the face? Then you shouldn't invite him either, LOL!

I get the feeling he really thinks plan b is slipping away. I need to be careful not to get reeled in, let him think I am available, and then watch him disappear again.

^^^EXACTLY!^^^

I’ve been running through scenarios in my head. What if he says he wants to work things out? What if he says he loves me? What if...what if....

Words are cheap. You want to see ACTIONS. What do his ACTIONS tell you?

[Pommy99]

Get into what? YOU validate HIM, not the other way around. If he asks how you are doing then just say "Fantastic!" and leave it at that. Remember Sandi's rules!

. Thank you! I did wait 3 hrs to reply and I think I said something like “I not sure what you mean [about being in a better place] but I don’t really want to answer questions like that on text. I would prefer to speak to you f2f if there is anything you want to know or ask”. That’s when he asked if we could talk at the weekend. I said sure, of course. And that was the end of the conversation. How should I have responded? If he wants an opportunity to talk, I should let him? I haven’t invited him over - we didn’t discuss where/ when we would talk.

What actions should I be looking for (or should he be demonstrating) when we are separated and I am trying to limit contact? He is coming over daily, he’s asking me to exercise with him, he makes excuses to come in the house, makes excuses to contact me, calling to see if I need anything from the shops. He’s definitely being more tactile and touchy-feely.

.

[may22]

Hi Pommy,

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. My advice would be to try as best you can to NOT share where you are with him if the R talk does happen. I think there are places on this site that give examples of things you can say to avoid answering, like really doubling down on the validation, or if he asks you a point blank question, "hmm, I'd have to think about that and get back to you" and move along. You might look for some of those or come up with a few phrases to have at the ready in case he goes there. The last thing you want, at this point, I think, is to get baited into re-confirming yourself as Plan B (I hate that term, but you know what I mean).

Also, the fact that you pulling back is leading to all these pursuing behaviors means-- don't stop pulling back. I think it could be really tempting to give in if he asks to move back in, or for more time together during this S, etc.-- but it probably is more of a reason to double down. You just said yourself you don't think 3 weeks is enough of a separation to make good decisions (plus it isn't really much of a separation given his behavior) so if you think that, say that if he says he wants to move back in or whatever. And it seems like his behavior is still giving you a lot of anxiety, so anything you can do to continue to support what YOU need-- not to elicit any particular actions from him, but to support what helps YOU during this crazy time-- is important. My sense from what you've shared is that what you need is some more time and space to sort out yourself, and until/unless he recommits, you aren't really interested in getting jerked around. Is that accurate?

The vets all say when he's ready to come back, you'll know-- if he isn't, you'll be confused. Trust your gut.

You got this!! xx M

[wayfarer]

I second literally everything May said. As far as the validating and deflecting. I would look at the validation resources on here. And maybe stalk Steve85's posts on here. He give AMAZING advice on validation and deflection. It really helped me keep my balance when H would like to have R talks early on and he would constantly drop new crazy sh!t in my lap.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Immediately after bomb drop is an awful acute kind of pain you aren't sure you'll survive. The mind games of true limbo are a far more messy dull ache that seems to just sit heavy and weigh on you and you aren't sure you'll survive.

I strongly suggest giving What You Did by Mahalia ft. Ella Mai and I Hope by Gabby Barrett a listen to. It's what I do when I'm feeling particularly FU and your little gf around here...lol And some Spice Girls and a little Rumors by Fleetwood Mac Maybe it'll give you some of the fire in your belly over this mind F stage like it does for me.

((((pommy))))