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Believe6 #2890583 03/26/20 07:57 PM
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Had a chat with a good friend. Tried to explain about MLC and what I am trying to do. She is very opinionated and told me I should leave the article with the 6 phases of MLC for H to read so he could start getting a grip. She was adamant that he should see a therapist and why isn't he seeing a therapist.

I had to actually tell her to "stop" and "listen" and that what she was saying is counter productive to what I am trying to do to get through this time. It's almost like in CanBird's thread where she wonders who to "announce" to. I did like DnJ and told the people I thought would help me.

Now, not to say that my friend isn't on my side. She is actually up in arms about this whole thing. Apparently, a neighbor (not too close but in her area) was an MLC and shot and killed his wife, then son, daughter ran out to a neighbor. Before the cops came man shot himself. She says to watch for signs if that's my H.

So paranoid much? Yes, I think sheltering in place. The fact that she thinks she is in MLC herself... I don't know. Maybe the wrong person to have brought this up with today.

On the other side, I am really proud of how detached I am becoming. H had to do stress test for heart. He was gone almost 3 hours. I know it takes only 10 to 15 min to get to the dr. Maybe another 10 to fill out paperwork. So why gone so long? He is in good shape so getting his heartrate up took only 15 min, then the sonogram. So hmmmm....

Anyway, I find that although I had these thoughts and am tempted to find a way to check his phone for messages, etc. I am actually peaceful. I am not going to do that. I am living my life. He does seem really pleasant the last couple of days.

I will say, it's most likely because he got into college he wanted and now we are working out the finances. This is a life goal of his that he was resentful he put off for so long. I had encouraged him for years to do it,but he always had an excuse. Just like he's always had an excuse as to why he couldn't change jobs so he could be more social.... He thinks he did all that to put the family first. We would have figured it out.

But he never wanted to so now it's somehow my fault. He doesn't say that, but it's implied when he's told our MC that he's put me first for all these years. I told him I felt I was putting him and the kids first. He has some choice examples as do I, but in no way do I think either of us can claim we weren't both trying to do what's best for the entire family.

What's strange, and what I keep coming back to, is I know all MLC journeys are different. HeartsBlessing and others remind us of that. We can't judge any of them as the same. I just wonder if we aren't sure of the stage they are in, exactly what should we be doing.

Right now, I am letting go and letting God. I am acting like a good roommate and caring person. If he wants to talk, I am pleasant, interested, and curious. I don't chase him. I don't exhibit push or controlling behavior (at least not as much anymore... I don't think I am anyway). I am getting a life. Even if it's just practicing the ukelele, watching shows I like, going on forums like this, and checking on the kids.

So for now, I am ok. We will all go for a walk later as a family. My kids and our dog love that. Why not do things for the kids when you can? As long as we are both trying to be pleasant, that should be the most important thing. Peace during this shelter in place time is paramount. We all have to get through this with our minds, hearts and bodies intact, right?

Hope you are all having a blessed day!


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Believe6 #2890589 03/26/20 08:33 PM
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Jounral-- pulled this from Amy's thread Babe recommend I read (or maybe one of the links from that thread)
_________________________________________
Re: Why the MLCer is so distant [Re: Imageer]#98410803/22/07 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Imageer
Amy, How do I leave the door open for my W to return but not actually say anything to her about it?



You decide to.

You must know, though, if you decide that come hell or high water, you are going to stand for your marriage, rest assured that making that decision will be the last simple thing you do.
Hell and high water will both come.
They'll come often and sometimes they'll even come together before you have time to take a deep breath.

As long as you know that and still decide to stand, it is possible to do it quietly, effectively and with grace.
It will take more than you know you have within yourself.
You will have to dig deep and eat a lot of crow.

There is plenty of room here at the table.

;\)

Make a list.
Write down your reasons to stand.
You know the basic ones; kids, vows before God, etc....
Now look closer at the very heart of your relationship.
There you will find the reasons that will enable you to endure.
___________________________________

I did something I said I wouldn't do. I went to check the car. That's where he had sex with the AP. The back of our car like teenagers. Anyway, I found a strand of hair. Now, it's the similar in color to mine and my daughters only shorter so I am thinking those 3 hours away were put to other use than the stress test.

Funny, although my heart hurts, it isn't pounding like it has been in the past when I think of him cheating. Am I finally learning detachment at least emotionally?

When I came back in the house from "dropping off the recycling," an excuse to check the car, H asked where I went. I told him I went to drop the paper recycling from our room. I also told him I was tempted to go for a ride. I said it pleasantly. He said he understood. Then he went back to his office. He was supposedly getting vitamins, although I think he heard the front door open and came to check on me.

So either he is feeling guilty or he's trying to hide something. Either way, I know it doesn't help to keep pushing at him. Trying to get him to talk or even to get him to feel anything.

At this point. I just want to get through this time with my own dignity and my own sanity intact. Maybe others, my family/friends who know, will think I'm nuts for sticking around. I am going to minimize what I say to them going forward.

I think I need to figure out for myself why I want to stand... besides my kids and my vows.

Here's what I know and remember.... this man, he brought me out of a dark time as my best friend, long before we ever became lovers. He's always been a rock for me and many others. In the past, he never really cared all that much what others thought. He did what he thought was right and it was always done with honor, integrity, commitment, and compassion. He works hard, even when it's not work he loves. He's the best dad I could have ever hoped for. One of the reasons I was attracted to him so much is because I knew he would be the dad I wished I had.... someone lighthearted, loving, stable, not too over the top emotionally, never got angry (except lately and only at me), fun to be around, interesting, adventurous... and so many other adjectives that are great.

I stand because he was my very best friend for almost 25 years now. We've been married 21.5 years and it's only been the last 8 months that I've seen the worst of him.

There may have been fights, we may have disagreed, but it was always me pushing. Always me saying we should see someone. We should decide if we should be together. Now I know that maybe I am the one who was also going through my own transition because I've had early menopause for the past 4 years.

I stand because to me unconditional love is real. It matters. I said I will love him no matter what and I meant it. I will stand whether or not the relationship survives. I will stand for ME. I will stand for LOVE because I don't know how not to stand.

But I will also do it honorably. I will do it knowing that I may have to face "Hell and Highwater" at the same time like Amy says. I will do it, because I don't think I can go to God... to the end of this life knowing I did anything less.

Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe the pain will get to be too much and I will ask God to release me from this vow... but I hope not. I hope I have the courage, the faith, and the will to keep standing... No matter what.


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Believe6 #2890637 03/27/20 11:58 AM
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Good Morning B6

You friend’s reaction is pretty standard and normal. Our friends don’t want to us hurting, especially for a long time. They want to help, they want to fix; just like we were before seeing this new hidden world. It takes time to explain the seemly counterintuitive reality to them, and time for them to understand and accept it. Just look at how long it takes the LBS to find understanding and acceptance, and we live this. A friend, no matter how good, isn’t walking in your shoes. It makes perfect sense they won’t understand, at first. We didn’t understand at first either. smile

Do not leave articles out for H. MLCers do not want to be diagnosed. To them, there is nothing wrong with them. You, the kids, the dog, that bird outside the window, the furnace vent ( smile ) - they are too blame. MLCers can’t, and I mean can’t not won’t, they can’t be at fault. They will expend incredible energies into maintaining their fantasy. They have too. In the face of rationalities and reality, their apparent stubbornness looks crazy. And pretty much is. Crazy, not insane, just irrational.

Your friend’s warning, paranoid or not, is another typical reaction. People do remember sensational events, more so than the calm and nicely ending ones. A couple that gets back together doesn’t make the news headlines, but a murderous rampage does. The percentage of irrational people that turn violent is really small. Most are harmless and very misunderstood.

Originally Posted by Believe6
What's strange, and what I keep coming back to, is I know all MLC journeys are different. HeartsBlessing and others remind us of that. We can't judge any of them as the same. I just wonder if we aren't sure of the stage they are in, exactly what should we be doing.

Yes, every MLCer has different upbringings and different traumas, different underlying issues and demons. And yet they do follow a strangely similar path and script.

The stages are not carved in stone, and do not have well defined delimitations between each. “Running” is the behaviour the LBS sees first. The bomb drop, it is a running behaviour. Running lasts for a good long time; it lasts as long as it takes.

Running, withdrawal, depression, they can bounce into and out of each - just like the stages of grief. The time estimates that are given here and there are rough guidelines at best. Some MLCers, never come out of running. I personally believe most do progress through their own stages and grief, eventually accepting they were not at fault for whatever traumatic experience emotionally stunted them, and they do grow up.

Exactly what should we be doing? Focus on you and the kids. Not manipulating. Healing and growing. Living your beliefs.

MLC lasts as long as it lasts. How long are you going to last, outlast?

We have to find our peace with this. A way to live with, and for, ourselves. We can outlast this, but not if one pays too much attention to the behaviours of their spouse. We get very little, some of us none, attention from our spouse. We find our way. Maybe the MLCer awakens, does their inner work, and reaches out toward us. Maybe we are still around. Maybe not.

Those particular answers are a long way down your road. They’re a long way down my road too. Letting go requires understanding and strength. I see both within you, and movement towards that goal.

Stay strong and keep moving forward.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ #2890646 03/27/20 01:05 PM
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Believe,

I agree 100% w/what DnJ has posted. Your friends and family do not want to see you hurt or in pain, but trying to explain MLC is way over their heads unless they have walked a mile in your shoes. DO NOT give any info about MLC to your h. They do not want us to tell them that there is something wrong w/them. In their minds, they know that something is off, but do not want to admit it to anyone. They think that they are fine.

My advice is to talk to one or two friends and leave the others on the outside of the situation. We all need at least one person IRL to talk to about what is going on.

Also, the stages are not linear, they are grieving for what they think that they have lost in life. We are grieving for the loss of a marriage that has now died. Just as the stages of grief are expressed by all who have lost something near and dear to us, the same happens w/MLC. The stages are very similar...but again not linear.

Jim Conway who wrote about his own MLC many, many years ago talked about the stages. His wife also wrote a book about Jim's crisis and how she coped during that time. You may want to check their books out. Try to remember, that the stages are just a guideline and are not set in stone, nor is the timeline that HeartsBlessing has indicated in her postings of many years ago. Since her postings, we have learned much more about MLC and yes, there is even one more stage, which I have mentioned over the years that isn't recognized by many unless the reconciliation is taking place...but that's down the line for now...

Bottom line, observe, listen, validate where you can. Keep your discussions w/others outside your immediate family to a minimum and take what they say w/a grain of salt...they only want what is best for you.

For now, you need to keep the focus on you and your family, watch your finances, i.e., bank statements and credit cards. Dig deeper for patience and understand that this is not a journey that you were suppose to go on w/him. This is a journey that only he can make and complete in order to come out the other side a whole, mature, settled man. Your journey is to rediscover the woman you were when you met him. It is a time to do those things that you've put off doing because you were too busy. Make that list, check it off when the item is completed and know that no matter what happens, you will and are a success.

Keep that focus on you. Allow God to work on you h. Remember...you didn't break him, therefore, you can't fix him.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
DnJ #2890732 03/28/20 12:48 AM
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DnJ and Job,

Thank you for responding. It helps to see vets who've been here and, for some, a little while, support us who are just starting this long Journey.

Originally Posted by DnJ


Exactly what should we be doing? Focus on you and the kids. Not manipulating. Healing and growing. Living your beliefs.

MLC lasts as long as it lasts. How long are you going to last, outlast?

We have to find our peace with this. A way to live with, and for, ourselves. We can outlast this, but not if one pays too much attention to the behaviours of their spouse. We get very little, some of us none, attention from our spouse. We find our way. Maybe the MLCer awakens, does their inner work, and reaches out toward us. Maybe we are still around. Maybe not.

Those particular answers are a long way down your road. They’re a long way down my road too. Letting go requires understanding and strength. I see both within you, and movement towards that goal.

Stay strong and keep moving forward.

DnJ


I hear what you are saying. I did the total wrong thing last night. I was trying to be supportive about a change happening for him and I ended up arguing with him. I realized last night just how much I have been doing what he says. Trying to get him to see my side and agree that although I made some mistakes so did he. I don't know why I keep trying to defend myself.

He's hurting. He's so lost. He's so trapped and I trap him more by trying to get him to see "reason." And it's only my reason. And truth be told, I know better. This is a gift. We had a good marriage. Better than most, but it wasn't enough for him and in the long run, all it takes is one. If it's not enough for one of us, it can't be enough for either.

Originally Posted by job

Bottom line, observe, listen, validate where you can. Keep your discussions w/others outside your immediate family to a minimum and take what they say w/a grain of salt...they only want what is best for you.
Job


D@mn. I wish I would have done what I kept saying I would do and what you mention, Job.

Listen listen listen. Validate validate validate.

Instead I got defensive. I wanted him to remember how amazing our life has been. And to me, to all outsiders, it was. Maybe when he comes out, he'll remember it too. One reason he says he hasn't outright left already is because he doesn't want to make a mistake. He knows we've had some good years and he doesn't want to look back and have left when he should have stayed. Then in the next breath he'll say he wants to be a hermit... to run away and live on his own.

It's heartbreaking to know just how lost he is. When I look back at the times I felt so depressed, anxious, and lost, I too wanted to run away. I didn't but I think that's because I knew I had work to do here. I'd done enough spiritual work over my life to know that you can't keep running away from situations. The universe (God) finds a way to put another person or situation in your path until you learn your lesson.

I realize now, my lesson of being judgmental, manipulative, needy, controlling, and selfish needs to be addressed. I know it stems from abandonment (not that my parents left me, just that my dad was never around and always working and my mom suffered from depression herself- long story) and not feeling good enough/lovable enough. So I try to force people (or manipulate) to stay with me.

I have been listening to Byron Katie. She has a really great video on Youtube and it opened my eyes to the "story" I am projecting on not just to H, but to others in my life. She says when we are in pain, we need to question the thoughts we are believing. When I face my own pain/fears, I totally see what she means. But then my inner anxiety and fear gets a hold and I can't stay in that space where I know God resides... that space of peace.

She also says that only "good" is happening to us. I've also heard numerous spiritual and thought leaders say, we need to believe we live in a friendly universe. Or that we need to remember that God is working for us and never against us.

I know that's to mean, even these things we label as "bad" are meant for our good. It's mean to shape us. To heal us. To make sure we "never pass this way again." That we are ready for our full spiritual awakening.

I believe that. I have a good friend who I finally shared (not the whole story, but about the trouble in the m) and she is grounding me. She is reminding me to keep trusting in the process. To know that my spiritual light is shining brighter and as I let the darkness, these shadow sides of me, come to light and learn to change them... then more light will be able to shine through me.

It is so hard. It is hard to let go of the story and the illusion and even the myth that my marriage should have never been rocked like it has been. I refuse (yet) to believe it is destroyed. I know it is forever altered. It's like someone who loses a limb and has to figure out how to function now without it. Often, the go on to live fuller, brighter, more empowered lives.

The worst thing that I could ever imagine happening in my marriage has happened. It is still happening. I can't run away from it. I can't hide from it.

I must ask for forgiveness for my MLtransition, while living as an LBS. My H won't be able to forgive or understand my request for forgiveness. But at least I am stating my truth and accepting whatever he is able to understand.

On top of that, I am going to learn and I will master the art of really listening. Really validating. Accepting that I need to shift my perception if I am not seeing him for who he is, rather than my projection.

Gosh it's a lot. It's hard. So hard.... but I don't want the last 30 or 40 years of my life to be me hiding my head in the sand because I wasn't strong enough to get through this self inventory and metamorphosis.

Blessings


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Believe6 #2890779 03/28/20 02:20 PM
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Good Morning B6

Be gentle with yourself, it’s hard trying not to defend.

A common saying is that every situation has two sides and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Actually every situation has two truths, many truths. There is no middle, just viewpoints, each of them as valid as the next. Our perceptions create and shape our reality, our truth.

Believe your truth, and live your truth. Challenge your beliefs and truth as well; it’s a way to grow. See the other sides, and the validity for those that hold them. You can discuss viewpoints; you can’t change their’s. They can, if they choose. You can, if you choose. There is nothing to defend, since you’re not fighting.

Originally Posted by Believe6
I must ask for forgiveness for my MLtransition, while living as an LBS. My H won't be able to forgive or understand my request for forgiveness. But at least I am stating my truth and accepting whatever he is able to understand.

Asking for forgiveness, I realize holds an appeal. It feels right. Do not make decisions or act on feelings. Feelings change and are not good indicators or long term headings.

Yes, asking for forgiveness is ok. However, when. And from whom.

As you said, H won’t be able to forgive you or even understand or empathize. I suggest waiting, not asking H anytime soon.

The person of whom you are seeking forgiveness from, is you. Work on you. Forgive yourself. I know just how tall an order that is. Absolution doesn’t come from an external source. It is an internal journey.

Originally Posted by Believe6
Gosh it's a lot. It's hard. So hard.... but I don't want the last 30 or 40 years of my life to be me hiding my head in the sand because I wasn't strong enough to get through this self inventory and metamorphosis.

Yes it’s hard. And you can so do this.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ #2890787 03/28/20 04:00 PM
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Believe,

There is a simple exercise that I had to learn to become a better listener. I would listen to a person and then repeat back to them what they said and ask if that was correct, especially when it came to something of importance. I would simply state that I wanted to make sure that I heard what they said correctly. It may be something you might want to try w/your spouse when they are being chatty or or venting. At least he would now that you were listening and wanting to be sure you heard him correctly.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Believe6 #2890841 03/29/20 04:34 AM
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Thank you, DnJ and Job! I thought I was doing so well today. Gave him.plenty of space.We both had to do work in the yard. I did the yard work while the kids and H we were relaxing doing their think. Then I worked on laundry and went back out later when he was coming back in. Later we were both heading out to take night shots on our own. When I was getting ready, he told me to be careful because both the kids wanted to come with me. I said , yes of course. He said in a mean voice, why are you saying it like that? I was so confused. Like what, I said. He said, you know, fake.

He's accused me of being fake recently. I am not being fake or robotic. I am trying to be kinder and sweeter in my tone. In the past, he and the kids tell me my tone seemed condescending or sarcastic. Even though my H can be sarcastic. Os anyway, I got really mad. I couldn't help it. I told him why did he assume I was being fake. I'm not being fake. Trying to be better at how I talk. I told him he had to quit assuming things like that. Just because I am trying to be better.

Anyway, still trying to calm down. out now and hoping this time will help me balance again so I can try to listen and validate. It's tough and [censored]. Especially when my crazy mind thinks he may have used this time to see th ow. Even though he sworn that he isnt contacting, speaking or seeing any other women. If he is, its quick which is possible. I keep thinking what does it matter if he is. I must focus on me. But it still hurts. These thoughts torture me. I want peace. No matter what the truth is. I want peace.

Thanks for reading and the prayers and support.


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Believe6 #2890851 03/29/20 01:53 PM
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Try to remember this...any changes that we make, they will question them. They will do everything in their power to get us to revert back to the way that we were behaving pre-crisis. So, if you have made changes, stick to them, do not waiver one bit. Eventually, he will come to realize that you are moving forward and the changes that you are and have made will be permanent.

Keep the focus on you and your children and watch your finances! Dig deeper for patience.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Believe6 #2890867 03/29/20 04:43 PM
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Thanks, Job! I am cycling myself.

Anger, pain, humiliation.... I am tempted to confront him about my fears or assumptions that he is still seeing the OW. I know you all say he will lie. That this will only prove to him that he should keep seeing her because undoubtedly we will fight. Just typing this, I realize God answers my prayers. I asked the Holy Spirit to guide my words and thoughts. Being on this and another forum is helping me keep my balance.

A feeling of peace just came over me. I see now. I am not meant to know or care about his journey. He will do what he will do. I must do what I must. Which is to focus on me, my growth, my center and to leave him to his own.

Funny but i have been avoiding him. He is trying to be kinder, more steady this morning. I am standoffish and not engaging. I am learning this detachment thing. Maybe him pushing me last night is helping me. Do he wants to think I'm fake to make himself feel better? So be it. I will keep working on my tone. On being happy and positive and pleasant. No more of my old monstering myself either. I am not her. I can choose to let go of my feelings that I dont want.

I am my own best friend. Thank you all for the foundation and the balance. Whew...


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
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