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A Message from Michele
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MLC newbie #2889861
03/19/20 07:31 PM
03/19/20 07:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
B
Believe6 Offline OP
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Believe6  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
It's been over four months since BD. Found out about PA with good friend of ours. AP is also married, but aren't close with her spouse. H says he felt I had fallen out of love with him. And he wasn't sure if he was in love with me anymore.

He was/is going through depression/guilt about dad passing and having hard feelings towards his dad. H says I wasn't someone he could talk to because of some things I said in the past about things between him and his dad. We've always said we were "best friends" and that I could tell him what I thought. I tried to apologize for my thoughtless comments, but I guess he didn't forgive me or trust me after that.

His AP also lost parent soon after we lost his dad and they started bonding via text over that. What ensued was approximately 5 months of sexting, meetups for oral, etc. When I found out in Nov, it was apparently already over for a couple of weeks as they both felt guilty, but they were trying to stay "friends." That "friendship" stopped after I found out. NC has been in place. I know because for the first 3 months I checked everything, have tracker on his phone, etc. But that was driving me crazy so I stopped checking and obsessively trying to find out what he's doing.

I will say, it took almost a month of snooping to find out all the lies. This after he swore he told me the "truth" about everything. Found out about pictures, sexting, etc. He lied about the number of times they got together, etc.The finding out just how much he lied was so very hard. Especially after promising he told me everything.

I know he's been going through a lot for a while. He has been unhappy with the job for a long time and some goals he never reached. Realized he was getting older and not as healthy. Hasn't been able to other sports activities as much because of a lingering injury. Feeling libido waning for the past couple of years. Financial worries as I've been out of work for a while without pay. There's more, but I know we need to try to keep some details out just in case others may figure out who this is.

A few years ago (2 or 3 now, I think) he mentioned he thinks, that maybe most of our friends, are going through some form of midlife crisis. I tried to offer him ideas and advice about getting a new job, going back to school, or finding something else to help him with his dissatisfaction. Even up to a month ago, I was trying to be supportive and helpful about his life (job, activities, etc). But it seems that only made him frustrated with me. He reminded me there was a time I just wanted him to "listen" and not try to fix and now I am the one trying to "fix" things so I have stopped.

Right after dday, he seemed truly remorseful and fully "in" to try and repair our marriage. He still said he didn't know what he wanted if he wanted to stay married to me, but he was really trying. We did MC and Retrovaille couples retreat. We were working on things. But about a month ago, I thought we were in a good place so I asked if he was ready to commit to the marriage. Wrong thing to do! He has pulled back completely. He won't touch me, kiss me, or anything. We are still living at home. He is still in our MB, but no touching at all. We talk about mundane things (covid, the kids, the news) but I have done everything I can to detach and let him do his own thing.

During our last MC, he mentioned once again that I was trying to analyze him. Our MC told me to stay in my own lane and to let him go through what he is going through. He'll have to do it at his own pace as he is an "avoidant" personality. She was trying to get him to admit he has hidden anger. He says he doesn't, but he has gotten angry with me in the past couple of months so I know there is that and some resentment there. I also shared in MC that he has been rewriting history and making me the bad guy in this. I guess that's normal and I can't do anything to make him see me or our life differently at this point.

The tragedy is, our core friends/family (we have a number of us who regularly hang out... I mean almost every weekend), thought of us as the perfect couple. Always touching, kissing, hugging and saying we love you. Always doing things for each other and going out of our way not to argue. Some of our couples friends know. I shared it and that's another bone of contention between us because he now feels ashamed and humiliated (as do I really), but I thought if our friends knew, they could offer us support and encouragement. They want to, but as I said H is avoidant so he won't reach out, even if I do. So I am limiting who I reach out to so if he does want to talk to them he won't feel I 'poisoned' them against him.

I hadn't gotten DR yet nor found this site so I know I should have already stopped MC. Actually, just found this site a few days ago and have been obsessively reading threads and after reading MLC stages, realized that's what he's suffering. So now, here I am scared to tell my story, but needing some advice.

How do you navigate detachment and GAL when still living together?

For the first time yesterday, he looked me in the eyes when he was talking, smiled at me when having dinner with the kids as a family, and I felt him softening. I know not to believe anything he says and only half of what he does. So I know I am in this for a very long haul. It seems like he's already in Depression/Withdrawal. But hey, he could be cycling in replay, etc.

I know this can take a long long time. I just want to get back to me and being there for our teenage kids who still need two solid, loving parents. I am doing a lot of soul searching. Writing a list of what I want to do for me. Things maybe I stopped doing.

I am also doing everything I can to get a job. Unfortunately, it's been tough in my field and at my level. I am even willing to take a lot less pay to just get out there and rebuild my own feelings of self-worth. I am terrified of how long trying to get a job has been taking. And now with the virus, it's even tougher.

Any advice for GAL while being stuck at home? I have really been reaching out to old friends and old colleagues. Prior to the shutdown, I was going on hikes with friends, going to lunch, getting coffee.... I read a ton, listen to music and am trying to work on my PIES (physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual) areas.

I am learning to let go and let God. Have been terrible at that, but getting better. Thank you for your inspiration. There are posts from over a decade ago that resonate with me and have helped my stomach to unknot a little and for me to realize that the one trait I don't have but will earn through this process is patience.

Thank you in advance for your advice and support!


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889864
03/19/20 07:48 PM
03/19/20 07:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,169
NY
Cadet Offline

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Cadet  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,169
NY
Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-66, D33,S32
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889869
03/19/20 08:34 PM
03/19/20 08:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 27,453
Southern Maryland
job Offline

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job  Offline

Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 27,453
Southern Maryland
MLCers tend to bounce back and forth through the anger, replay, depression and withdrawal. The depression that we speak of here is a very deep, dark depression that will eventually come around and that's when they withdraw from just about everything. Right now, he's very new to the crisis, i.e., only 4 months since the BD. The stages are not linear, i.e., just like the stages of grief.

I would definitely consider ceasing the MC and go with IC for yourself. MLCers tend to have selective memories and yes, they hear only what they want to hear and some go a few times and then call it quits. Until he's ready to give up the OW and put his focus back on the marriage/relationship w/you, there isn't any sense in going to MC.

I want you to take some time and think about what may have happened to him 18-24 months prior to the crisis. Generally, something happens to trigger the "rethinking of life in the past. For example, death of a parent or parents, friend, co-worker, promotion, demotion or loss of a job, major illness for himself or someone close to him, birth of a child or empty nest coming about, etc. Something always triggers them to start thinking about the "what ifs or what did I miss growing up".

We are all fixers and we want to fix things and them, but this is one time that you cannot fix him. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. He has to do that all on his own. This is a time of self discovery for you as well. Treat him as a roommate, go about your business and start making a list of the things that you have put off doing and start doing them.

A poster named HaWho had a live in h. He lived in his little funky dorm room in the basement for quite some time and then finally moved out. She has two sons and they all saw him go down into the rabbit hole.

This is a marathon, not a sprint, so dig deeper for patience, no relationship talks w/him. If he comes to you and wants to talk, listen and validate. Try not to argue w/him because he will be attempting to do so in order to validate why he feels the way that the does.

For now...keep the focus on you as much as possible and come here to post often.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Re: MLC newbie [Re: job] #2889875
03/19/20 09:24 PM
03/19/20 09:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
B
Believe6 Offline OP
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Believe6  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
Thank you, Job! I'll have to look up HaWho. 18 to 24 months ago... He has been very unhappy/dissatisfied with his job and being trapped (remote worker) at home for over a decade. But 2 years ago, he really started complaining about it. Then 13 months ago his dad had a stroke and subsequently passed. He has completely given up the OW. Like I shared, I had been checking his phone, computer, tablet, etc. And although I don't do that now, I do have a tracker on his phone which is never out of his site and I can see where he goes and even what sites he visits and how much. I hate to say, I still check that daily.

The thing is, my H is very steady. Never has had highs or lows emotionally. This is why this is so very hard for him. He cries when he never has before. He can't explain what he is feeling and the pain and loneliness, which I can understand as I actually have and still do struggle with anxiety and mild depression. Nothing I am medicated for, but I know the symptoms and signs as I've seen enough IC to know.

I had been seeing a IC and will do so again. Because I've done so much of this throughout my life, I already know what i need to work on. I have been using Byron Katie's the Work to help me look at my stressful thoughts. I use EFT tapping to help manage my anxiety and emotional pain. I meditate, pray often, and come to various boards to help find answers.

Then on top of that, I am building my life goal list anew. Without him as the central figure... and I journal. I will do what you say and not argue, but rather listen and validate. I do not know what he is going through. Even if I did and felt I maybe went through a very mild case of this myself a few years back, I don't know what he is going through.

I guess it's all about learning to be patient with him and myself. Blessings.


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889889
03/20/20 01:32 AM
03/20/20 01:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
B
Believe6 Offline OP
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Believe6  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
I know time is on my side. Wondering what the vets here do to deal with the pain of the PA/EA. He says he felt a strong connection with her that he can't explain. Like the one we had at the beginning of our relationship. And that connection turned into this crazy physical attraction. I have been dealing with the images, triggers, flooding... learned to control it in the past month, but the three months before that was so hard. I still sometimes feel this terrible pain. I know I am not supposed to show anything. I am supposed to be detached and following Sandi's rules.

I have found that I have been stronger because of this, but sometimes, just having to be around him and the kids... well it hurts. I miss him. I miss my best friend. I miss him touching me. We used to always hold hands or sit together even if we weren't talking. ALWAYS. It's been so painful. But I am trying so very hard to be positive, upbeat, and the "roommate." Not the wife. Not the love of his life. Not his best friend... it hurts so much sometimes...


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889892
03/20/20 01:57 AM
03/20/20 01:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,201
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DnJ Offline
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DnJ  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,201
Hello Believe

Welcome to the board.

It is at first scary to tell our stories. We are so full of self doubt and blame; we almost canít even risk seeking others views. So, congratulations on your first of many victories and steps along your path.

First off, his mid life crisis is not your fault. In fact his slipping into his fog has nothing to do with you. A triggering event from a year or two ago awoken deep and painful long ago trauma(s) buried within him. The stroke and death of his father is very likely something that could have triggered his emotional crisis.

An MLCer suffered some trauma when they were young, by a person in a position of authority, and were emotional stunted. You seen it in Hís difficultly in expressing his feeling throughout his life. Although the upbringing of men does tend to reinforce that kind of limited emotional behaviour as well.

As job wisely said - you didnít break him, therefore you canít fix him. H is on his path and you arenít invited. He needs space and time to sort out his feelings, and he will absolutely take the space and time his needs.

MLCers are in crisis. They operate on emotions, and their emotions are cranked to 11. You cannot reason with a MLCer, they will react and behave irrationally and erratically; doing whatever feels right at that moment. And what they do is try to outrun their pain and torment. This is not some over exuberant description, the MLCer blows their life apart attempting to destroy the terrible feelings.

The LBS, the once loved spouse, is the target of the MLCerís projection and misguided justifications. A MLCer cannot handle being wrong; they cannot handle their new troubling emotions and long forgotten terror. They will blame you, the sky, the dog, whatever; it doesnít have to make sense, and most times wonít make sense. But, it does to them. They keep lying and running.

A MLCer cannot face this reality. They are driven, and need to run. Strange, bizarre, and new behaviours overtake them. They become the opposite of who they once were. Sex, drug, alcohol, spending, etc. can become ways for them to run. These crisis people have poor coping skills and are emotional very young.

They are taken back to that time of their trauma, that emotional stunting, and need to grow up from there. It is almost like time travel. They live trapped in the past. A time when they didnít know you, were not married, and didnít have children. From that emotional place many become terrible parents and behave like spoiled teenagers.

Originally Posted by Believe6
How do you navigate detachment and GAL when still living together?

Detachment is very much needed. It is one of the best things you can do for yourself.

Focus on you and your kids.

Treat H like a roommate. Be friendly and kind, and be a roommate.

Stop snooping. I understand the draw to that tracker app. Delete it. You cannot control H. Knowing his whereabouts does you no good. You cannot detach if you keep hanging on.

I empathize with what you are going through. It is hard to let go. However, everything you learn about Hís behaviour is more you will have to deal with. The idea is to focus on you and let H do what he is driven to do. Remember he is going to do it anyhow, he is driven to. And those running behaviours can get pretty bad. The less that gets rubbed in your face, the less you see, the less you go looking for - the quicker you will heal and the better chance you have of outlasting this MLC.

A lot of advice will feel like the wrong thing to do. It is counterintuitive, at the moment. We all arrive here with no prior knowledge or experience with this stuff, and lost as to what to do. Our instinctive responses are oftentimes incorrect; this situation is counterintuitive.

The advice here is first and foremost for you and your healing. Focus on you. Give H time and space. Detach. Etc. The advice also gives you the best chance at a possible future reconciliation.

This is a marathon not a sprint.

You have the gift of time, use it well.

Stay strong.

DnJ


Current
Me52 XW49 S23 S21 S19 D17

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

I may give up, but not today.
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889895
03/20/20 02:08 AM
03/20/20 02:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,201
D
DnJ Offline
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DnJ  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,201
Hi B

Missed your post. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Believe6
Wondering what the vets here do to deal with the pain of the PA/EA.

Detach. Get through withdrawal of H. Let go. Find indifference.

Indifference is one of the mile markers on the LBSís path. We become unfeeling towards our spouse and their behaviour. We then learn who and what we truly can control.

And pain usually has its roots in fear. Let go of fear.

All things that will come about - in time.

Keep the focus on you. Let time do itís work.

DnJ


Current
Me52 XW49 S23 S21 S19 D17

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

I may give up, but not today.
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889946
03/20/20 04:44 PM
03/20/20 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
B
Believe6 Offline OP
Member
Believe6  Offline OP
Member
B
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
Thank you so much, DnJ! I am focusing on how to get through each moment. I am coming up with ways to "see" my kids not through the lens of my pain, but through the lens of never ending love. I have become too focused on getting my "family" back or saving my "family." I get that the family I thought we had is gone now. Whatever family is left if and when he comes out of MLC will be a new family and hopefully a much better one because he and I are better.

Looking back now, I realize how much I had changed since we got married and had kids. I knew nothing about raising kids. I knew I wanted them, but he was always so much more relaxed and gifted in that area. I am grateful that right now, he really is still being a good dad. He says the kids are the only thing that make him happy. At least he has that and really so do I.

The person I became was really a fixer, controlling, overly opinionated and sometimes not very affectionate. Although many would say we were overly affectionate to begin with so maybe it was more like becoming like others. I also realize I stopped sharing my true feelings and fears. I forgot how to have hunger for life. To keep growing and expanding. It's like I was waiting for permission to do things, want things, dream of things... I did have a bucket list, but the desire to actually do anything on it was forced. Maybe it was having kids. Maybe it was "settling" in to life. But I've felt lost myself off and on over the years.

The gift here is I am being forced to ask what I really want the next half of my life to be and if I want it to be with him. I still look at him and have that same melty feeling. I still believe the core of him is in there if he can find his way out of this. But I get it. He may never find his way out and that's not what i should be focusing on anyway.

I am getting better at not checking on him or worrying about him. I am working on both indifference and detachment as you say. I am learning to let go and let God, but it is so very hard. I am used to being in charge. To making strategic plans and following through to completion and success. But that's the thing about relationships. They have their own path and their own plan... I guess i just have to go along for the ride.

Thanks again! BTW, are there any success stories for marriages coming through MLC? I believe long ago Hearts Blessing had hers. But anyone recently?


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889960
03/20/20 07:10 PM
03/20/20 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 27,453
Southern Maryland
job Offline

Member
job  Offline

Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 27,453
Southern Maryland
Yes, Westo saved her marriage and she and her h are doing well now. I also believe that Gordie saved his marriage in the last year or so as well.

Some do not return to post once their marriages are come full circle. Others are more willing to post and give us updates from time to time. There is a thread at the top of this forum w/some success stories that may be of interest to you as well.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Re: MLC newbie [Re: Believe6] #2889962
03/20/20 07:47 PM
03/20/20 07:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
B
Believe6 Offline OP
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Believe6  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 135
Thank you so much, Job! I will check them out. Happy friday!


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
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