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Originally Posted by kml
Actually Don I have a patient who is so allergic to coffee that during shelter in place, her husband (who usually has to go to Starbucks to drink his coffee ) is brewing his coffee in a Keurig in the back yard and and drinking it in the garage and it is STILL causing her symptoms!

It would be very interesting to test against a placebo. Just the skeptic in me perhaps but the mind is a very powerful thing.


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I’m with you, bttrfly. How can someone of a certain age be that uncomfortable being alone? I don’t think it is just you and having been an only child. I have 2 siblings but there is a big age gap and I like my alone time immensely. I love my husband, don’t get me wrong, but the best part of our life right now is that he gets up and goes to work and I get to work from home every day. LOVE that alone time!

And yes, Andrew’s comments about S “moving aggressively to get what she wants” raised my eyebrows. Really? I love you, Andrew, but that sounds like she is just running full steam ahead and running over you in the process whether it is what you want or not. Her not understanding your need for alone time also struck me as being pretty immature.

My XH was like that though. He did not get the need for alone time and would get his feelings hurt if I asked for it. It took several years and a LOT of very intense conversations to get him to understand it had nothing to do with him. I suspect S is like that too and it worries me for your future. And while I’m on this tangent, you’ve mentioned several times not wanting to rush S25 or make him feel pushed out but I suspect that if he can’t move out on the schedule y’all have planned because of the current situation, S won’t take it well at all. Pay attention, Andrew! She is telling you who she is!!!!!!!!!!


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I knew someone who had severe allergies and carried an epi pen. The smell of peanuts caused him to feel sick. The sense of smell is very powerful and I suspect some associate it with their allergy. It could be mind related just the way sometimes if you get really sick after eating a certain food you never like it again and the smell always bothers you.

As for the relationship part, you both are still in limerence right now. You don’t know each other that well. Real life challenges such as blending families, cohabitating and pandemics can scuff up the glossiness of limerence.

Hope you continue to manage your needs and take care of you.


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Thanks kml - I know myself to absolutely be an introvert although certainly not a shy one. I can be "on" in a group when necessary but it is very emotionally draining.

I think that for S that in many ways that it's insecurity. Clinging on to a rock in a storm if you will. I'm going to haul out some entrails in a moment that I'll probably regret showing.

bttrfly, Dawn and HaWho - I spent a fair amount of time editing this post while you put in your comments. I believe that while I've not addressed them directly below I think that my post will illuminate things a bit. I do agree with your comments with regards to S and I and our differing needs for "space" and the fact that we are still on "best behaviour".

-----------------------

Well - that was unexpected, but probably a good thing.

S has headed back to her apartment for an in-determinant amount of time. I had expected her to be heading back for the weekend with plans to camp out here again through much of the next few weeks. That's not her plan at least at the moment. "Of course" this was sprung on me as we were loading a surprisingly large amount of stuff into her van. Most of which had also recently arrived in the last unloading. I asked to talk in more depth and we sat in the sunshine on the bench by the door and talked. I think she was just going to say her piece and leave.

She's been worried, and been right that I have been uncomfortable with the speed that this is all happening at. She on the other hand hasn't been feeling that her and the boys moving in is as high a priority to me as it should be or feeling as much at "home" here as she wants to be and has concerns about how "all-in" I am. For many of the things she said, even though it could be thought that she was in some ways "guilt-tripping" me, she was very right. She felt that she and the things she needed were not a priority and that I am too wrapped up in "my" stuff. She did say that my words which tell her that I miss her when she's not here and that I want her to be here and for us to be a couple weren't matching my actions. That was her biggest thing. I think that my telling her that I loved her, wanted to get married and wanted her and the boys to move in meant that I was ready for it all to happen right away. Otherwise, why would it be said (?)

She commented that she felt it wasn't fair to her that after only 3 days that I needed a break and is worried about how I'll deal with her and the boys being here full time. I tried to talk about how I hadn't thought that she'd be here so much until closer to move-in date but probably botched that a bit. She said that she was tired of hauling so much stuff back and forth all the time and called me out (again) on the fact that I've only spent a couple of nights at her apartment. I'd actually wondered why there was so much stuff making the round trip but again, Expectations.

She also brought up that when she's here when I'm working that she feels that she doesn't connect to me as I'm wrapped up in work or in doing things around the house. She said she tries to do her own thing but feels ignored.

Going to regret this next bit. It is though I think a critical piece of the puzzle that I've never explicitly explored here although it has been hinted at.

As an aside, I find her apartment a fairly oppressive place. I'm struggling on how to put it into words without making excuses for her. Let me start by saying that I almost bailed when I first saw the clutter, mess and chaos that she lived in every day. I soon realized that she didn't like it either and appeared to prefer the order that exists in my house. She and her three youngest had lived there for quite some time and all have some variety or other of ADD along with her very real pain and mobility issues that limit what she can do in terms of cleaning and organizing. Activities that are often derailed by her kids. This is why I think me working on organizing and cleaning her apartment has been such a priority for her. When I do stay over there, I feel very awkward as I can't navigate around the kitchen nor just do what comes naturally and putter as it's not "my stuff". I also feel very crowded and constrained by the amount of "other people's stuff" that is everywhere. A hold-over from my marriage when I wasn't "allowed" to touch any of my then wife's "stuff". Being in an entire apartment filled with such things is difficult on me. When I'm there I feel "trapped" and certainly not in any way "at home". S does agree with me that the "energy" in the apartment isn't very good. The other bits about my discomfort there haven't been explored together other than how I felt impotent to deal with the clutter that had been in my own house. S herself I believe is very uncomfortable there and has struggled in creating her "own" space. Something she's commented on multiple times and something she keeps trying to define here.

Sigh. I've not wanted to put that last bit out there as I've been sure that it would cause a large backlash against S and more negativity on how she should be more capable than she is.

My own opinion is that she was in a very dark place prior to her contacting me last fall and it did cause me worries that she was only interested in me for my ability to rescue. While she was in that "dark place" with no obvious way out, things piled up. Literally. Loads would arrive from her STBX as he / she / they cleared out what had been left behind. XH#2 would buy and drop off random stuff for the kids. And she had all the stuff from successive forced down-sizing over the past 10 years.

Even without the rose coloured glasses though, I do firmly believe that we can live compatibility together. She has no issue at all with my wanting things organized and tidy and wants me to help her with that. She has been working as well as she can on her own space and with my help at least since we've been dating and I do notice (and make a point of remarking on) that each time that I see the apartment that significant incremental progress has been made. I'm a huge believer in noticing the positive.

This need for compatible for lack of better words "energy" is I think very important. And we do have it. When we work together on something we work far far better than I ever did with any other partner be it my ex or B. And not because one of us is primary and the other is secondary but because we each can contribute something the other lacks. Her ability to think "sideways" about an issue and to manage multiple simultaneous things strongly complements my ability to focus and drive forward.

------------

S has put the onus on me to figure out how to make this all work and on how to decide when I'll be ready. I told her that I honestly don't have any answers right now and that "we" needed to figure it out. She wants me to do the figuring.

There's lots more going on than can reasonably be explored here. I have a lot to process. We still are planning on making this all work but perhaps with not quite so tight of timelines.

I think - inappropriately putting this into the context of project management - that we are in a situation of "managing expectations" - one of the hardest parts of any project that I've ever worked on. Mine were slower than her's but my communication to her indicated that I was more ready than I actually am.

There was an amount of guilt-tripping done, mentions that I shouldn't be letting S25 dictate the speed that we move in etc and that I should be obliging him to take more ownership of his future. Issues that she has that are legit too although she has similar challenges with her own offspring.

I will walk this back a bit and suggest that some, but certainly not most of this is theater. Legitimate concerns. Looking at the underlying actions though with more stuff having been moved in just yesterday the progress is continuing. I think that the biggest thing is the deadline of April 1st when she was planning on giving notice on her apartment. A decision she made on her own without consultation with me. She's now legitimately worried that just a few weeks won't be enough for everything to be in place. And I think she's right. Putting that back on me, could be over-analyzed far too much.

I think all will be fine. I'm going to work on going at "my" own pace and hopefully we can work this out. It is at the root I think an issue of challenges with expectations and communication. We are both motivated to make this work and I certainly won't give up easily and S has a history of working hard to keep things together. I work on ignoring the practical things that I bring to the table which the cynic in me is enough of a realist to acknowledge. But that the optimist in me chooses to refuse to believe is one of her motivations. I have too much respect for her as someone who has been able to walk away from bad situations regardless of the price she did pay to believe that.

I also think that for each of us that this is uncharted territory. S's former partners were pretty much all in some fashion or other "man-babies" that "needed" her for managing day to day things. I'm independent. I don't really "need" anyone to help me with anything. I can certainly see her former partners clinging to her and as an example she has told me that at least one guy she'd dated in the past wanted her to move in with him after 2 dates. And here I am managing along just fine and not trying to "pull" her in and in fact resisting that to a degree.

As many here would probably agree - staying single can be an easy choice. But I still want the richness that S will be adding to my life.

PS - yes - I expect that there will be some strong feedback on this post. While I read, appreciate and take seriously the generally well intentioned comments being made I have learned that the more that I dig, explore and dispute, that the negativity also tends to ramp up. I am working on making a better life for myself. That involves risk. There are always a 1000 reasons to not do something as it is easier to tear down than build up. Building up doesn't mean blindly being in agreement. Building up to me means being positive and exploring how to get the best outcome given the cards we are dealt.

Sigh - enough introspection for now. Going to do a bit more work - there's a whole set of chlorates that I need to review - the joys of working from home with no end of shift bell - and then I may do some baking. I'll send S my usual good-night. I may actually wait until Monday or Tuesday before seeing her again. I have a lot of thinking to do and I need to both do it well and to also not look to her like I'm rushing back and not being true to myself.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP

-----------------------

She's been worried, and been right that I have been uncomfortable with the speed that this is all happening at. She on the other hand hasn't been feeling that her and the boys moving in is as high a priority to me as it should be or feeling as much at "home" here as she wants to be and has concerns about how "all-in" I am. For many of the things she said, even though it could be thought that she was in some ways "guilt-tripping" me, she was very right. She felt that she and the things she needed were not a priority and that I am too wrapped up in "my" stuff. She did say that my words which tell her that I miss her when she's not here and that I want her to be here and for us to be a couple weren't matching my actions. That was her biggest thing. I think that my telling her that I loved her, wanted to get married and wanted her and the boys to move in meant that I was ready for it all to happen right away. Otherwise, why would it be said (?)

She commented that she felt it wasn't fair to her that after only 3 days that I needed a break and is worried about how I'll deal with her and the boys being here full time. I tried to talk about how I hadn't thought that she'd be here so much until closer to move-in date but probably botched that a bit. She said that she was tired of hauling so much stuff back and forth all the time and called me out (again) on the fact that I've only spent a couple of nights at her apartment. I'd actually wondered why there was so much stuff making the round trip but again, Expectations.


Andrew, I think nothing illustrates what I'm trying to say more than the previous two paragraphs. I think when someone "moves aggressively to get what she wants" there is always, always on the other side of that the question of is the other person really all in or just giving in. It's a conundrum for sure and I hope I've been able to clearly state the dynamic I'm referring to.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

She also brought up that when she's here when I'm working that she feels that she doesn't connect to me as I'm wrapped up in work or in doing things around the house. She said she tries to do her own thing but feels ignored.


Rather than share with you my take on this, I'd rather ask you what you think about that statement.


Originally Posted by AndrewP
As an aside, I find her apartment a fairly oppressive place. I'm struggling on how to put it into words without making excuses for her. Let me start by saying that I almost bailed when I first saw the clutter, mess and chaos that she lived in every day. I soon realized that she didn't like it either and appeared to prefer the order that exists in my house. She and her three youngest had lived there for quite some time and all have some variety or other of ADD along with her very real pain and mobility issues that limit what she can do in terms of cleaning and organizing. Activities that are often derailed by her kids. This is why I think me working on organizing and cleaning her apartment has been such a priority for her. When I do stay over there, I feel very awkward as I can't navigate around the kitchen nor just do what comes naturally and putter as it's not "my stuff". I also feel very crowded and constrained by the amount of "other people's stuff" that is everywhere. A hold-over from my marriage when I wasn't "allowed" to touch any of my then wife's "stuff". Being in an entire apartment filled with such things is difficult on me. When I'm there I feel "trapped" and certainly not in any way "at home". S does agree with me that the "energy" in the apartment isn't very good. The other bits about my discomfort there haven't been explored together other than how I felt impotent to deal with the clutter that had been in my own house. S herself I believe is very uncomfortable there and has struggled in creating her "own" space. Something she's commented on multiple times and something she keeps trying to define here.


Nope, no backlash from me. The only question I have is, where does it go from here? It's one thing to do the big purge and clean out stuff. It's another to maintain. I'm speaking as a woman who sent an 18 foot truck full of stuff off to charity. I still have about a room full of stuff to get rid of. Stuff was a huge issue in my marriage. As different relatives would die, I'd be left certain things. My husband would throw a fit. Our home was cluttered. I didn't like it, but didn't know how to tell Auntie I didn't want her prized hope chest (one example). Funny thing tho, when I cleaned everything out, there was easily as much stuff that was his (old computers, bins of files and electronics, sporting equipment, car parts, tools, etc.). Now, here I am in my house. I still haven't unpacked two rooms, mostly because there's been no real time until now. I've noticed I do not buy anything without thinking long and hard about how I'd get rid of it. That's usually enough to stop me from buying something these days. I remember you cleaning out your home, re-claiming it, little by little, until it was a place of peace and calm for you. What I'm saying is that I've had a wholesale change in my relationship to "stuff" and how I want to live, and I've done pretty much the same. Not quite 100% there yet, but pretty darn close. I think what you need to figure out is whether or not S is in the process of something similar.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

My own opinion is that she was in a very dark place prior to her contacting me last fall and it did cause me worries that she was only interested in me for my ability to rescue. While she was in that "dark place" with no obvious way out, things piled up. Literally. Loads would arrive from her STBX as he / she / they cleared out what had been left behind. XH#2 would buy and drop off random stuff for the kids. And she had all the stuff from successive forced down-sizing over the past 10 years.

Both are very real and valid points. The thing is, it's easy to distract oneself with a relationship. What's her internal process? You'd know better than I, but my real question I guess is do you think that S is introspective enough to answer that question?

Originally Posted by AndrewP

S has put the onus on me to figure out how to make this all work and on how to decide when I'll be ready. I told her that I honestly don't have any answers right now and that "we" needed to figure it out. She wants me to do the figuring.


I think you're right about both of you needing to figure it out, but I also think that she needs to stop aggressively trying to get her own way and let things develop at a pace that is more relaxed and comfortable for you.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
There's lots more going on than can reasonably be explored here. I have a lot to process. We still are planning on making this all work but perhaps with not quite so tight of timelines.

Given the current world situation, I think tight timelines are your enemy.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I think - inappropriately putting this into the context of project management - that we are in a situation of "managing expectations" - one of the hardest parts of any project that I've ever worked on. Mine were slower than her's but my communication to her indicated that I was more ready than I actually am.

Really? Feels more like scope creep to me.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
There was an amount of guilt-tripping done, mentions that I shouldn't be letting S25 dictate the speed that we move in etc and that I should be obliging him to take more ownership of his future. Issues that she has that are legit too although she has similar challenges with her own offspring.


Andrew, I don't know how you feel about that. You're going to have to really think about that a bit. I'm not involved with someone, so it's hard for me to say anything definitively, but I think if anyone said anything at all about my son in that context, it wouldn't go over well with me. A spouse/partner can be replaced. My son is irreplaceable. That's my core, and I am incredibly protective of my son right now, given what he's been dealing with, so factor that in.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I think that the biggest thing is the deadline of April 1st when she was planning on giving notice on her apartment. A decision she made on her own without consultation with me. She's now legitimately worried that just a few weeks won't be enough for everything to be in place. And I think she's right. Putting that back on me, could be over-analyzed far too much.

Again, I think this is what happens when someone pushes their wants ... they can never truly relax and believe that it's mutual, whereas a more relaxed and organic pace doesn't generally have this issue. Also, that's a pretty big decision to make unilaterally. And, I hope she's taking any move as the perfect opportunity it is to purge herself of the excess "stuff".

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I think all will be fine. I'm going to work on going at "my" own pace and hopefully we can work this out.
That's the most sensible approach.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
It is at the root I think an issue of challenges with expectations and communication.

I'd add insecurity on her part. A secure person wouldn't push her agenda so hard then feel so insecure when she got her way. This is something that time will help, I hope.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I also think that for each of us that this is uncharted territory. S's former partners were pretty much all in some fashion or other "man-babies" that "needed" her for managing day to day things. I'm independent. I don't really "need" anyone to help me with anything. I can certainly see her former partners clinging to her and as an example she has told me that at least one guy she'd dated in the past wanted her to move in with him after 2 dates. And here I am managing along just fine and not trying to "pull" her in and in fact resisting that to a degree.

As many here would probably agree - staying single can be an easy choice. But I still want the richness that S will be adding to my life.


All the more reason that I think you're doing the smart thing by loosening up the timelines a bit. I'm proud of you for taking the necessary time to really think things through. What are you going to bake?


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Thanks so much bttrfly. I made Pillsbury cinnamon rolls last night. They turned out decent but were obviously from a can. I left half of them for S25 for when he got home.

What you said largely echos what is going through my head. Especially the bits around my son and the fact that this all seemed to be on her timeline and not mine.

----

I got to bed at a decent time last night - weird being by myself. Sent S a typical cheerful "good night" with a note that I was confident that all will work out. Got a loving and nice response back.

Then I slept on it.

I think that for all intents and purposes, whether intentional or not, she was giving me a bit of an ultimatum. xxxx or get of the pot as it were.

She's also given me as it were - the gift of time. I had been wanting things to slow down but "Being me" was unable to enunciate it. One of the things that I'm really really good at is being oblivious and so can fairly easily work along as if everything is fine and take her at her word that she's going to stretch things out another month.

That gives S25 time to get on his own with no additional pressure, gives me time to be more prepared for her and the boys. And gives her the time to get - as it were - her own house in order.

This is all more or less DB 101. If she wants this to work out and I am confident that she does, then we'll work together on this. Hopefully with her knowing that pressuring me isn't an effective tool. She is, I think in many ways insecure about things and I need to make sure that she can continue to be confident in my love and commitment to make things work - but without forcing it.

Well - I had to get up and address some things at work. All appears to be ticking along again so back to bed for a nice lie-in. Would be better if there was a pretty girl joining me, but she's at her apartment for the forseeable future. As it should be at this point being as we are just engaged and still in some ways need to "date" more.


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Andrew -

You wanting time is really reasonable. If she really loves and respects you for who you are and not what you have to offer her, she will wait and respect you. If she can’t wait and really just wants someone that’s gonna have her move in after 2 dates, then that says a lot about her and not you. Telling her you need time could be a good test so that you could understand what her motivations are. If she is willing to end things because you need time, you know she doesn’t really love you.

You know my situation. And I would never ever pressure someone to have me move in with them. It would injure my pride and I would fear looking like an opportunist. I also wouldn’t want to put that kind of stress on my partner or relationship. I also wouldn’t want to put my son in a unstable situation unless I was positive everyone was in on this. Myself Included. I wouldn’t want to use someone. And I don’t need someone or anything bad enough to pressure them .

I think that your concerns are very valid. And you are voicing them because it helps you sort them out. I’ve been in tons of abusive relationships and I find that when I actually verbalize or try to sort things that don’t sit right with my inner voice - it typically means red flags or potentials for abuse. My inner voice knows but then the outer voice spackles (chump lady term) with things similar to your “well our differences will make this work or she’s legit to say that about my son etc”

And regarding kids... How did you feel about her voicing her opinion on your son? My last bf did that and I resented him. What concerns me, is that she was not legitimately trying to help or offer advise regarding your son. , she was using your sons issues as part of her argument and to inflict guilt. That’s not healthy.

There’s an old article in The NY Times magazine you might be able to google that talks about how the best predictors for successful relationships is knowing how to fight fair. That this is more important then compatibility. Look at how she argues with you.


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Andrew,

The gift of time is what both of you need. Rushing the process will only make matters worse. I think both of you need to step back just a wee bit and just breathe. As for the April 1st date, I do not think that it is doable at this moment to give notice. Is she on a month to month rental or a full year? If it is a full year, it would still make sense for her to remain there until the end of the school year, i.e., as was discussed earlier before the health crisis took over the world. Both of you are still learning about each other, dealing w/two residences and yes the "extended family issue" comes into play.

As for her comments about your son, well, you know how I feel about your son and the cats. They were in your home first and she either needs to accept that they will be living there for a while or get over it. Right now, your son is doing well, has a job, but it's going to take some time for him to find a place to live and let's face it, businesses are shutting down and there is no telling how long the place he's working at will be deemed essential and at least living w/you, he and the cats have a home for the time being. I'm sure that when the world is "healthy" again, he will find a place to live, but until then, no one should be looking to move out.

As for purging "stuff" from years gone by, my motto has always been "if I haven't used it in a couple years, then I don't need it". Sounds like S has accumulated quite a bit of stuff over the years. Now is the time for her to be thinking about getting rid of and/or donating stuff that they haven't used or played with in the last year or so.

BTW, I do understand how you feel going into someone's home and feeling uncomfortable in cleaning/organizing stuff for them. I have the same issue. In fact, when I go into a home that is "messy", my hands start to "itch" to want to clean it up and I don't stay very long because it feelings oppressive to me to be in surroundings like that. I don't think S realizes that her residence is small and crowded and some people have issues staying over or being there for long periods of time.

I do think you've been given an eye opening chance to actually work through things w/S. Take as much time as you need to discuss things and and it shouldn't all fall on you to figure things out. In order for this relationship to survive, it will take both of you to sit down many, many times over and discuss things. Maybe this is the time to discuss those things in a session w/a therapist to better understand why she's in such a rush to do things and to also have you better understand how you are going to deal w/all of this upheaval that I see coming into play in the coming months if things aren't resolved before the actual move in. It's better that all of this came to light now, rather than later.





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Originally Posted by JujuB
And regarding kids... How did you feel about her voicing her opinion on your son? My last bf did that and I resented him. What concerns me, is that she was not legitimately trying to help or offer advise regarding your son. , she was using your sons issues as part of her argument and to inflict guilt. That’s not healthy.

There’s an old article in The NY Times magazine you might be able to google that talks about how the best predictors for successful relationships is knowing how to fight fair. That this is more important then compatibility. Look at how she argues with you.
Thank JuJuB - I'll perhaps try to find that article. She does in some ways fight dirty usually using guilt as a tool. With that said, generally we do talk things out in a very collaborative manner and this is only the second time we've had something we couldn't sort out right away.

You are sharp in how her comment about S25 affected me. As all here know, I'm very protective of him. In some people's minds, too much so. But on the other hand, he went from being in a very dark place when he moved home to being a cheerful, contributing member of society with a good group of friends who is looking forward to being on his own. While we do grate with one another, I'm confident in his love and respect and that it will continue for years to come.

I believe S has a different attitude about kids where she's the Mom and she makes the decisions. She does listen to and ask for their input and is there for them if they need her but is happy when they grow their wings and leave the nest - even if their destination can be uncertain. Her D25 lived in an old mini-school bus in a commune for a while and also backpacked through Asia. Her S17 also moved out for a summer when he was 15 and in with that same sister (who I think is tired of being "mom"). When her D18 and S17 went out to British Columbia she didn't hear from them at all for days and it didn't seem to be an issue for her. When she married her STBX, her oldest son didn't get along with him and he moved out and in with his sister who was then I think 18. This I think is a big difference between us where she was surprised when I told her that if either of my kids objected to her for valid reasons that they would have the final say. She on the other hand stayed with a guy that her kids neither liked nor respected. Her leaving had more to do with the fact that the guy turned out to be a selfish controlling jerk with a gambling addiction than the fact that he wasn't a good solid person for her then 4 kids living with her.

Different people, different back stories, different dynamics. I think in many ways it's good that neither of us looks to have a parental role for the other's kids as we do it differently. I am absolutely much more of a mother hen.
Originally Posted by job
Andrew,

The gift of time is what both of you need. Rushing the process will only make matters worse. I think both of you need to step back just a wee bit and just breathe. As for the April 1st date, I do not think that it is doable at this moment to give notice. Is she on a month to month rental or a full year? If it is a full year, it would still make sense for her to remain there until the end of the school year, i.e., as was discussed earlier before the health crisis took over the world. Both of you are still learning about each other, dealing w/two residences and yes the "extended family issue" comes into play.

As for her comments about your son, well, you know how I feel about your son and the cats. They were in your home first and she either needs to accept that they will be living there for a while or get over it. Right now, your son is doing well, has a job, but it's going to take some time for him to find a place to live and let's face it, businesses are shutting down and there is no telling how long the place he's working at will be deemed essential and at least living w/you, he and the cats have a home for the time being. I'm sure that when the world is "healthy" again, he will find a place to live, but until then, no one should be looking to move out.
Thanks job. As I mentioned to JuJuB - my son is one of my non-negotiables.

Originally Posted by job
As for purging "stuff" from years gone by, my motto has always been "if I haven't used it in a couple years, then I don't need it". Sounds like S has accumulated quite a bit of stuff over the years. Now is the time for her to be thinking about getting rid of and/or donating stuff that they haven't used or played with in the last year or so.

BTW, I do understand how you feel going into someone's home and feeling uncomfortable in cleaning/organizing stuff for them. I have the same issue. In fact, when I go into a home that is "messy", my hands start to "itch" to want to clean it up and I don't stay very long because it feelings oppressive to me to be in surroundings like that. I don't think S realizes that her residence is small and crowded and some people have issues staying over or being there for long periods of time.

I do think you've been given an eye opening chance to actually work through things w/S. Take as much time as you need to discuss things and and it shouldn't all fall on you to figure things out. In order for this relationship to survive, it will take both of you to sit down many, many times over and discuss things. Maybe this is the time to discuss those things in a session w/a therapist to better understand why she's in such a rush to do things and to also have you better understand how you are going to deal w/all of this upheaval that I see coming into play in the coming months if things aren't resolved before the actual move in. It's better that all of this came to light now, rather than later.
kml actually suggested pre-marital counseling and I've asked S to follow up with her therapist. Sadly right now, none of that is available. Certainly on the list.

Thanks for the validation on how I feel at her apartment. I don't think she "gets" it and I think believes that I spend far too much time buzzing around cleaning this, tidying that, fixing the other thing. Something that gives me a lot of satisfaction. And that drives me batty at her apartment, especially as there are things that could be fixed and aren't. I've done some, but generally it's what she wants to be my priority on the limited time I spend there. My ex-wife used to love the fact that she had to only mention that something wasn't working and I'd drop everything and take care of it. I saw pictures of the inside of OM's house when it was up for sale - I don't think he even owns many tools - and now they're locked inside together ... bwa ha ha

S is on a month-to-month tenancy so can move out pretty much any time she likes. She has no damage deposit but wants to leave the place in decent shape which will be helped by slowing things down.

S did see my message I sent about taking another month so we can go slower and responded with a smooching emojji - so message received. She's usually more chatty. Undoubtedly she has a lot on her mind too.

Busy day here. I was wondering how I'd occupy myself but there's always something to do. I got the framing almost done for the rabbit hutch, second load of laundry is in, and did a couple of hours of office work so that a particular project is done for when my vacation starts.

I'm going to just go along as "situation normal" with S. With a good morning, occasional messages through the day and good nights. It's up to her to decide if she wants to stop by or stay over. I'm not going to push. I have a nice ham that I may cook up for Sunday - a variety I've not tried before.

All of the trails in the area and our village park are now closed reducing parts of the outdoors for me to wander in during my vacation. We'll probably ask to go for a wander through the bush at "the farm" next week on the 1st or 2nd which may well be the next time we see each other.

I do think that a big part of the challenge that we are going through was predicated by the fact that I was re positioned to work from home and S - whether intentionally or not - essentially moved in with me. As I mentioned before, we are still learning how to be a couple and need to practice and - in my opinion - not be doing it full time for a while yet. Perhaps if it hadn't been for that, we wouldn't have spent those solid days together and her expectations of timelines etc wouldn't have been so different than mine. I kept wondering each day how long she was planning to stay and she just kept staying. Certainly something difficult to object to.

Well - back to my laundry and workshop. Stay safe everyone.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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Quote
the deadline of April 1st when she was planning on giving notice on her apartment. A decision she made on her own without consultation with me


I think this is where you went astray - this is where you should have spoken up and said that was too early for you.

Two other things to think about:
1) Is she extroverted, insecure, or ..... a Love Addict? Moving in with someone after two weeks is some serious Love Addict behavior. Love Addicts thrive on the high of infatuation. They live chaotic lives and make poor choices looking for that “high”. They also often aren’t good in long haul relationships because as the high inevitably wears off, they go seeking it elsewhere. They also can be so single minded in their pursuit of their love object that they ignore the needs of others, or even rational behavior. Her lack of concern about your son feeling replaced by her and her family is a red flag.

2) The clutter thing. I’m not a slob, but not a neat freak either. My Ex was a total neat freak. It’s a lot of pressure and friction ( we hired a cleaning lady which helped considerably). I think you may be overly optimistic about your ability to live with the chaos and clutter that will inevitably come with her family moving in with you. You’re going to have to get comfortable with the idea of loosening your standards and meeting in the middle.

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