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Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: AKuei] #2905542
10/12/20 01:42 PM
10/12/20 01:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 264
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MrBrside Offline
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MrBrside  Offline
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Originally Posted by AKuei

I'm afraid of losing the family as a whole because I was brought with the teachings that children will fare best if both parents are together. I fear that my failure in keeping my W in the marriage will end up hurting my kids in the long run.

I've read threads that mentioned all that matters is how effective a separated couple can co-parent and the damage will be reduced to a bare minimum but all i could think of is, since I can't even save a marriage, how can I be sure I can effectively co-parent with someone that has hurt me so tremendously? Well, given that her rewritten history was me hurting her more, not sure what to make of it now.


This was my biggest fear - I think this is why a lot of people stay together when they really shouldnt.

I can only speak from my personal perspective, but WW leaving was the best thing that ever happened to me and my children. My WW did not have a "fun" childhood - she never went on holiday, dad ran off with OW, mum quickly met another man and got pregnant ( weeks after dad left) - ive realised now, she doesnt really do "fun" things with the children, as it stresses her out.. We never really did "day" trips, as the kids stressed her out. We never ate as a family at the table as "she couldnt enjoy her food with the kids stressing her out" etc... Once the WW is gone, you can be a great father, and do whats best for the kids, when with you..
I cannot stress enough how much better my life and relationship has been since she left. I would never take her back, yet 18 months ago, i was just like you.
Look at it this way - Its better for the kids to have 100% happyness, love and security 50% of the time than 10% happyness 100% of the time..

Originally Posted by AKuei

The kids were her world before she turned into another person. I can't understand the fact that she doesn't realise her trailblazing actions are leaving behind a trail of destruction to her loved ones.


Common - and its hard to get your head around - I totally relate, and many LBS spouces will..

BUT

WW wont see this - dont waste your time trying to explain it to them.. The person you knew is gone.

You cant control this or her.. So dont waste energy or time trying.

It will probably get worse - They are selfish beyond belief.

Originally Posted by AKuei

I'm puzzled by this statement because she was the one that wants to move this quickly but on the other hand she wants to "slowly" let the kids know about it and wants to give separation a try first and see how it goes. To me it sounds like cake eating, am i wrong?


Cake eating is correct. She want to keep you as a plan B - Have some self respect and walk away. You dont need people like this in your life.


Originally Posted by AKuei
I have to be strong for the kids no matter what.


This is KEY - dont do the whole "ooohh lets trying dating" etc - Focus on Kids Kids Kids - and You You You.. You will get through this !

Last edited by MrBrside; 10/12/20 01:50 PM.

Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: AKuei] #2905545
10/12/20 01:59 PM
10/12/20 01:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 345
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Core Offline
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Core  Offline
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Hi Akuei,
Originally Posted by AKuei

At times (more regularly now) I'm just calm where I'm ok with her out of the picture and I'm full of motivation to better myself and be there for the kids. And there are times (like now) where I'm back to square one whenever she pulls a fast one on me and the kids, leaving me speechless.

This is the pain and confusion many refer to as the roller coaster, or three steps forward, two steps back. Today you're having trouble, over all it sounds like you personally are making progress.

The rollercoaster is tough as there are so many different studies and opinions. If we heard that kids can be 100 percent ok in a D, this would be a notch easier. Yet some say its the most awful thing in the world. What helps me a little is some of the times when they say single parent households hurt the kids, its because the father is gone. In some of the cases its no counting coparent households, just often single moms with an absent father.

Everytime I hear a conservative talk family values, it stings, every time I hear a liberal talk values, it stings. There really is no answer besides why LH refers to in being the best dad you can for the kids. Its tough seeing your W go through what she is currently. Especially if youre a positive thinker and remember so many of the good moments. Thinking of yourself and the kids will help. You mentioned rock bottom a few posts back. Maybe you will or already have hit rock bottom. What do you plan on doing about it? What would you like those kids to see happen in someone who was knocked down? Does he get stronger? Does he show you can overcome?

Different subject - I have but havent started "When I say no I feel guilty", which is recommended. Personally cant give my recommendation but others like it. If you browse readytochanges posts, he recommends books in many categories. Ironwill recommended "The Power of Now" to me which is good so far.

I dont know how obtainable it is anymore but work by Hypnotica helped me, especially years before I married. I wish I kept it up. Specifically I think his Collection Of Confidence vids helped the most. Not sure about his newer stuff.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: Core] #2905546
10/12/20 02:43 PM
10/12/20 02:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
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AKuei Offline OP
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AKuei  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Core


This is the pain and confusion many refer to as the roller coaster, or three steps forward, two steps back. Today you're having trouble, over all it sounds like you personally are making progress.

The rollercoaster is tough as there are so many different studies and opinions. If we heard that kids can be 100 percent ok in a D, this would be a notch easier. Yet some say its the most awful thing in the world. What helps me a little is some of the times when they say single parent households hurt the kids, its because the father is gone. In some of the cases its no counting coparent households, just often single moms with an absent father.

Everytime I hear a conservative talk family values, it stings, every time I hear a liberal talk values, it stings. There really is no answer besides why LH refers to in being the best dad you can for the kids. Its tough seeing your W go through what she is currently. Especially if youre a positive thinker and remember so many of the good moments. Thinking of yourself and the kids will help. You mentioned rock bottom a few posts back. Maybe you will or already have hit rock bottom. What do you plan on doing about it? What would you like those kids to see happen in someone who was knocked down? Does he get stronger? Does he show you can overcome?

Different subject - I have but havent started "When I say no I feel guilty", which is recommended. Personally cant give my recommendation but others like it. If you browse readytochanges posts, he recommends books in many categories. Ironwill recommended "The Power of Now" to me which is good so far.

I dont know how obtainable it is anymore but work by Hypnotica helped me, especially years before I married. I wish I kept it up. Specifically I think his Collection Of Confidence vids helped the most. Not sure about his newer stuff.


Thank you so much for your thoughts Core. I practically have no one to talk to except for the folks in this forum and I'm so much calmer now when I see new responses to my thread. You guys are lifesavers, truly.

Yes, overall I feel that I've been making good progress in improving myself. But just hate it when roller coaster ride strikes. I admit I'm not having as much strong willed as the vets here where they are practically unfazed by the spouses actions because they can see right thru them. I can clearly see that I'm struggling on how much my W's actions have an impact on me but i simply couldn't stop my thought train to derail.

On the rock bottom topic, I don't think I'm there yet and I feel I still can take a few more gut punches (maybe I'm being too naive?) Secretly, deep down I am hoping that my W hits rock bottom instead, hoping that can shake her out of her fog (another naive thinking). Let's say IF i do hit rock bottom, I would like my kids to still see me as normal as possible, being around them 24/7 to tide thru this shiitshow. They are innocent and they don't deserve this at all. I do have suicidal thoughts at times but I will consciously shake them off because it's a coward's way to solve the problem. And it doesn't get solved anyway, will only bring more pain to my loved ones.

And many thanks for the reading recommendation! I've just downloaded the 3% man and I'll try to source for the ones you've recommended as well!


M(36), W(36), D(6), D(4)
M-7, T-8
Bomb Drop - Nov 28, 2019
W requested separation - Sep 30, 2020
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: AKuei] #2905554
10/12/20 03:38 PM
10/12/20 03:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,976
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LH19 Offline
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LH19  Offline
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A,

If you are truly having suicidal thoughts then you should seek the help of a professional immediately.

As for us vets we were right where you are right now. I thought my exw was the most wonderful woman in the world and I couldn't live without her and an intact family. I was never more wrong in my life. I love living alone. Yes, I miss my kids at times but when we're together we have so much fun. They are both doing really well in school.

It's gonna take a really long time for your W to hit rock bottom. My ex is in about year 7 of her crisis/change in personality. Her relationship with the kids is bad. They were both crying on the last exchange that they don't like being with her anymore. And it was her birthday! It's sad for my kids but also very predictable. All these situations run on the same script. You have to minimize the damage for your children.

The key is to use the pain to become a better person and the rest will work itself out.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: LH19] #2905559
10/12/20 03:57 PM
10/12/20 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 264
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MrBrside Offline
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Originally Posted by LH19
The key is to use the pain to become a better person and the rest will work itself out.


And to be that rock for your children - they WILL need you - As LH says, they all follow a similar script - and unfortunetly in most cases, the WW not only turns out to be a bad relationship / wife choice, but a poor mother as well.. Hence you need to step up - This will give you something to focus on !


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: AKuei] #2905591
10/12/20 08:16 PM
10/12/20 08:16 PM
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BL42 Offline
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AKuei,
Originally Posted by AKuei
I have D6 and D4. I'm sure they will have a lot of questions why mommy isn't home tonight later.
...
True enough, my kids were asking me where's mommy when they got back home. I just said, "Mommy's out with her friends."
...
And yes I agree with you that I'm still in denial because I still can't wrap my head around why my W can bear to just drop the kids and live her own fantasy. The kids were her world before she turned into another person. I can't understand the fact that she doesn't realise her trailblazing actions are leaving behind a trail of destruction to her loved ones.

Originally Posted by AKuei
Originally Posted by MrBrside
AKuei,

Let me ask you this... Would your old wife not want to wake up with her children on her birthday - to have them jump on your best and say Happy Birthday mum etc..

I suspect she would have loved it..

Heres the thing..The wife you knew is gone.. and to a degree ( certainly in my sitch ) the mother to your kids you knew is gone as well..

Replaced by somebody who's actions are pure selfish.. Hence she no longer cares if she wakes up in the house with her kids..

You cant change her or her actions. I suspect these actions will upset the children, so just be there for them.. Prepare for the worst ( divorce ) and plan for being the best father you can be.. Let her enjoy the car crash decissions she makes .
The old W will definitely like to wake up on her birthday morning with the kids greeting her, go for a good meal and have a fabulous cake. She told me me before that a birthday is a must no matter what.

Unfortunately this whole thread of comments regarding the WW's attitude towards the kids and her decisions without regards to the impact on them is not uncommon. In your case it's her birthday, in my case 5 months ago it was Mother's Day. She went away for the weekend to be by herself and had to console my S5 while he looked out the window, tearing up and crying, saying "I just want to spend time with Mommy on Mother's Day." He was so excited to give her cards and presents, and she didn't care at all to be around. Maybe it was because she hated me for whatever reason and not because she didn't love the kids, but either way S5 was crying on my shoulders because his mom wasn't there on Mother's Day.

And two weeks ago my S5 cried out "I want mommy! I want mommy!" for 45 minutes, eventually crying himself to sleep while I hugged him and tried to console him.

I don't know if it's because W is completely oblivious to the pain she is causing, or just doesn't care. Either way it [censored] and I'm sorry you're going through it as well. All we can do is be there for our kids and help them through it as much as possible. Hang in there.


Me:38 W:36
Married: 7 Together: 9
S:5 D:2
Bomb Day (BD): 2/15/20
In-House Separation (IHS): 2/15/20
Discovered EA & PA: 3/5/20
OM1's W knows: 05/15/15
W moves out: 06/22/20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: LH19] #2905614
10/13/20 02:48 AM
10/13/20 02:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
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AKuei Offline OP
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AKuei  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by LH19
A,
If you are truly having suicidal thoughts then you should seek the help of a professional immediately.


Yes I've engaged a therapist on a monthly basis to tide me thru this situation. I'm not going to let the suicide thoughts take over me. I have a lot of things that I can about apart from my marriage that I can't bear to lose.

Originally Posted by LH19

It's gonna take a really long time for your W to hit rock bottom. My ex is in about year 7 of her crisis/change in personality. Her relationship with the kids is bad. They were both crying on the last exchange that they don't like being with her anymore. And it was her birthday! It's sad for my kids but also very predictable. All these situations run on the same script. You have to minimize the damage for your children.

The key is to use the pain to become a better person and the rest will work itself out.


7 years is freaking long! I don't think i have the stomach to wait that long but who knows? Prior to me meeting my W I was enjoying singlehood to the fullest. And then she came along, got pregnant and I had to step up to be a responsible father and husband. It wasn't a bed of roses, I own 50% of the fault that led to this stage but I was never a violent person. No physical abuse took place; only those common cold wars and screaming when the kids got out of hand. It seems my W isn't that forgiving in that department.


M(36), W(36), D(6), D(4)
M-7, T-8
Bomb Drop - Nov 28, 2019
W requested separation - Sep 30, 2020
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: MrBrside] #2905615
10/13/20 02:57 AM
10/13/20 02:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 52
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AKuei Offline OP
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AKuei  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MrBrside
Originally Posted by LH19
The key is to use the pain to become a better person and the rest will work itself out.


And to be that rock for your children - they WILL need you - As LH says, they all follow a similar script - and unfortunetly in most cases, the WW not only turns out to be a bad relationship / wife choice, but a poor mother as well.. Hence you need to step up - This will give you something to focus on !


Yes LH, I NEED TO BE THE ROCK. Not that Dwayne Johnson rock (it will be cool though).

She was a good mother prior to this shiitshow; albeit a little bit on the anxious-parenting style type though. She took good care of them and they were the centre of her universe. I used to get jealous because our sex life dwindle because of it and she made me feel that I was never good enough for her.

I am thinking that her moving out is the last straw for me but after reading other sitches here, it might not be the case. Her moving out might kick start her rock bottom because in my "rosy glass" perspective, she was very comfortable with a lot of things. She never had to worry about finances because I was working my ass off to provide and I tried to get her everything she needs. Prior to me marrying her I helped her clear off her CC debts where her mindless spending racked up to 40K++ with her ex BF (we got together after they broke up but the debt remained). I was constantly helping her around the house but I do fumbled at times and I was rather impatient. It's those tiny accumulation of resentment coupled with lack of communication that resulted in this sitch blown out of proportion.

This is a huge lesson for me. I've made poor choices and I'm owning up and cleaning up my act for myself. I like where I am now but there's still a lot more for me to improve on. Now i just need to bite the bullet and let the emotions flow thru me. I need to pivot my thoughts to the notion that separation isn't the end yet. It's tough man.


M(36), W(36), D(6), D(4)
M-7, T-8
Bomb Drop - Nov 28, 2019
W requested separation - Sep 30, 2020
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: AKuei] #2905625
10/13/20 08:38 AM
10/13/20 08:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 264
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MrBrside Offline
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Quote

I am thinking that her moving out is the last straw for me but after reading other sitches here, it might not be the case. Her moving out might kick start her rock bottom because in my "rosy glass" perspective, she was very comfortable with a lot of things. She never had to worry about finances because I was working my ass off to provide and I tried to get her everything she needs. Prior to me marrying her I helped her clear off her CC debts where her mindless spending racked up to 40K++ with her ex BF (we got together after they broke up but the debt remained).


You are still holding onto a false hope.. She is in full WW swing, and its rare - very rare, that they go back to their old self so soon. Steve did post some stats once about the WW regretting their choices, and its a high number.. But its years and years down the line. By that point, most LBS have moved on. The thing is, in the early days, the LBS is sooooo desperate to get them back, that they don't make them work on their issues - and 1 year later, it happens again. Your WW has shown you what type of person she is - and what she is capable of. You need to have a LONG hard think about if you want somebody like this in your life.

Quote

This is a huge lesson for me. I've made poor choices and I'm owning up and cleaning up my act for myself. I like where I am now but there's still a lot more for me to improve on. Now i just need to bite the bullet and let the emotions flow thru me. I need to pivot my thoughts to the notion that separation isn't the end yet. It's tough man.


You learn - Look at this as an education.. Self improvement and decide on what you want to accept as part of your new life going forward..


Quote
I was constantly helping her around the house but I do fumbled at times and I was rather impatient. It's those tiny accumulation of resentment coupled with lack of communication that resulted in this sitch blown out of proportion.


The quote below is LH19 gold.. It will give you an insight into what proabably played out in WWs head. Some people are more resentful than others... Some let it go, others build it up - and up and up.. Until they release this resetment in the worst possible ways - add the guy at work giving the WW the eye and suddenly it all comes together - in their mind, you were a terrible husband and it justifys their WW behavour in their head... Children and family are just calatoral damage to them, as its all about them.

Originally Posted by LH19

When you live with someone, there is a huge motivation to keep the peace. Everyone wants peace in their lives. If you blew up over every little thing that happened between you, you would both be miserable.

As such, you push things down and gloss over them as you live together, and the consequence of that is that resentment builds.

If resentment builds too much over time, eventually it becomes "too much" and people start contemplating an exit from the relationship. During this period, the relationship is really "on trial" but the other party is usually totally unaware of it.

Once the trial is over and the person has more or less resolved to leave, you're on the tail end of a years long process. It goes "things are overall good, but this stuff is annoying" -> "These things are really annoying but not bad enough that I want to leave" -> "These things are really annoying and I don't know if I can stay" -> "These things are really annoying and now I have to get out"

Unfortunately, in many cases the "annoying things" were never even articulated, or if they were, not with enough gravity. Once the "I need to leave" point is reached, whatever those things are get magnified (the coffee incident) and new ones get invented to help convince the departing partner that they are making the right choice, its an act in self-reinforcement which sometimes requires lots of fabrication.

Last edited by MrBrside; 10/13/20 08:40 AM.

Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
Re: Need advice on stubborn W [Re: AKuei] #2905628
10/13/20 10:20 AM
10/13/20 10:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,976
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LH19 Offline
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LH19  Offline
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Posts: 5,976
A,

Her moving out is exactly what you want to happen. At bomb drop the LBS best course of action is to hand them a box of their stuff and say "or your leaving me for him/her, good like with that". Then you go in the opposite direction. You build amazing life by being a grant parent, working on yourself physically and mentally, doing things outside your comfort zone. It's really that simple but most LBS can't let go because of the fear of the own known doesn't allow them to let go.

Meanwhile the WW runs off with OP and eventually realizes the OP is human too. Meaning flaws just like they saw in you. Eventually they realize they are in the same situation as before accept without all the history and less support because of all the bridges they burned. The "fading affect bias" comes into play meaning you forget about the negative motions you feel for someone before the positive ones. They start to remember the good times in the marriage. At this point they will start to doubt their decisions. Usually it's too late because too much destruction has been done.

This takes a really long time to play out and the longer you hold on the longer it takes the clock to start. Unfortunately there are no shortcuts so if you want to reconcile you need to start the clock ASAP.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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