And we keep moving on.

[Irish M]

Privious thread:
Standing our ground - together as a family


my first thread from the beginning for those just joining.

Wife gone deep into the tunnel?

As you might know my XW is poking her head out of her hole once again. She just had a birthday so i'm sure it stings a little not seeing her girls. Not fun having her blame and point the finger and not look inside but it's part of the process. Also Part of my recovery. Seeing the irational thinking she has only confirms to me she is lost. Not my fault, not my circus and I'm happy to be off the train.

thanks to you all for the support. ANd i hope those quiet readers gain some insight to this horrible thing called midlife.
thanks for the hugs and well wishes.

GERDA: the denial she has for her past actions is incredible but it's so her. If I look back she had that trait long before her running away into crisis. She would always brush things off. Not face anything and act like yesterdays disagreement never happened. Many red flags that I see so clear today.

OWNIT: oh mine to were called many names, not only thieves. Crazy talk from a mother who who never say anything negative to them.

She did write the girls . I'll go into that down below.

KML: yes its unbelievable how it can affect people in diffeerent ways. i know so many now that my eyes are open to this crisis. People who don't see their mom or dad. They would rather avoid the person who caused them so much pain as children.

DNJ: yes I too think she has made progress. She said she can remember some things but not all. What she remembers is screaming at them and driving dangerousely. Slaming on the brakes and my daughters in the back seat flying forward hitting themselves on the back of the front seats. In her mind it was because they made her mad. They questioned her about the hickies on her neck. They provocked her. Again she would have not done that if they had just minded their own business. In the past I would mention this and she would say it never happened or can't remember. Now its coming back to her in pockets. Progress

PEACE : Yes rock bottom I think is needed. SHe did say her BF hit rock bottom when she met him. Saving him from his own MLCr was her priority. He was an LBS. It for sure made her feel better about her own actions.

JOB: you are right on the money. The email was short. no warmth. No real meaning. I'll explain below.

BUTTRFLY: Yes her conversation was painful at first. I did brush it off very quick. Then my thoughts turned to pity for her. She will sadly have to deal with reality if she ever does come face to face with the girls. They won't be as nice as I was.

DEJAVU6: Yes it is all up to them. they are adults now and they will chose what they want to accept or not. They have told me if she bad mouths me in any way they will walk away. If she blames them they will walk. Maybe as they get older they will soften up or maybe as this goes on. They will just accept it that their mom is no more.

So after my conversation with my XW. after hearing her tell me about how she saved her current BF from rock bottom. I think it pushed me to another level. Not of forgiveness. More of thank god I am where I am.

I didn't need anyone to save me. I saved myself from the LBS. It wasn't easy. I had a lot of help and guidence from this site. But I didn't need 1 person to save me.

him however.

He was a LBS. She felt sorry for what he went through. His wife of 18 years leaving him with his kids. Now this was 16 years ago. During those 16 years he became an alcoholic and a pig towards all women. I know this because the town he lived inabout an hour from my house is small and I know many people there. Also my GF friend lived acrossed the street from him. She shared more than what i wanted to hear.

a perfect candidate for her to save and feel good about her own horrible actions.

Now onto the email..

I briefed the girls on the phone call. They both asked how do I do it. How I put up with her poking. How i stay calm. I said simple. I do it for them. If I didnt have kids with my XW. I would not entertain her calls or emails.

so a day later a single email comes in addressed to both girls.

Hi girls.
I think its about time we talk. You should both call me.
I can't explain what I did and why via email.

I think it would be good for both of you if you could tell me what’s on your mind.

I want reconnect with you both and start from fresh .
I’m here and will always be.

Love
Mom

so the girls read this and rolled their eyes. My D17 got mad. Questioning the part of starting fresh. I told her that she can't assume her mom will not discuss the past and want to just move forward with acceptance.
D19 said she's not ready. Deleted the email and said I bet she won't try again for a while.

I guess she wants to see more attempts. I think she is right.

Now I could email XW and tell her to keep trying. Soften up a little and maybe start the conversation with a little explanation. But i won't . I don't think that will help anyone. It needs to come naturally from her. For the girls to accept it as real it has to be real.


I will stand back and support my girls. It's been a few days since the email. They seem fine and haven't talked about this since. Let's see how XW plays this.


have a good week :-) hugs to you all.

[Gerda]

Irish, I came late to your story so I just read the first post you made. WOW. I always liked reading your posts not only because it's great to get to know a great person/dad is out there but because your posts make it particularly clear that it's not about you. I see many similarities in our spouses. Our MIL's were similar as well -- mine didn't encourage my H at all but she stopped seeing me and the kids and hardened her heart, told me that he was her blood and she didn't want to hear from me anymore, that I had ruined everything by choosing to live in the city!!!! Amazing that anyone would choose their version of righteousness over getting to see their grandkids! And like you, we seemed like such a close family before; but yes, looking back, some flags. However, I think that the flags could have gone either way. Our spouses could have been healed by devoting themselves to the marriage rather than destroying themselves and all the rest of us by destroying the marriage. I do think marriage offers us an amazing opportunity to become our highest selves because of the unconditional love it teaches. But in our cases, we had to cut that journey short when our spouses cut it short.

Anyway I just wanted to support your choice to do nothing. Doing nothing is doing something. It is not only not yours to fix, but I think that fixing it only extends the MLCers lack of responsibility. It would be like apologizing and cleaning up the glass and putting in a new window for your neighbor when your kid is the one who broke it. Except much worse, since it's broken people, not windows.

And also I think that my son is much healthier than my daughter right now precisely because he chose to go no contact. My daughter gets tortured once a week on Wednesday afternoons and then every other weekend for a night-- supposed to be two nights but we always say she has a sleepover so it's only one and H of course is happy enough to surrender his time. My D comes home totally distraught, reeking of vape, conflicted, anxious, takes days to come down off of it. And of course the effect on me of having to hear about the OW and other tasty tidbits is just awful, so then I also struggle to be a loving kind patient present mom when I am hurting.

So I think you should feel free to see the no contact as a very healthy choice for your kids, not as something that you are choosing not to help with. You ARE helping with it, by letting them take all the time they need.

[OwnIt]

Irish,

I'm glad I was wrong and that she contacted them. That is such a dramatic change. For years she has been trying to bully, manipulate and threaten you into easing that transition for her. I imagine this took a tremendous amount of courage on her part. While yes, it is very cold and impersonal, I think it could have been substantially worse given how she tends to communicate with you.

I didn't have a parent leave, so I don't how that feels personally. But I have watched both of my children struggle in different ways. I have to believe that getting occasional glimpses of the crazy has to help the children better comprehend that this is not about them and not about them not being good enough. That she is not living a happy life somewhere having forgotten all about them. Also, I think that she has had such a hard time reaching out to them has to hurt. It is one thing to not feel up to responding to your mother or wanting more effort before you do, and entirely another to not even have her try to contact you.

Thank goodness for you Irish. Thank goodness your daughters have you. And thank goodness that you are still able to respond to her and take her calls after what she has done. Your strength has been the linchpin to enable all of you to continue moving forward; even her. Very, very slowly, but she is moving forward.

[bttrfly]

that email seemed a tad less peremptory than usual. minuscule progress is still progress. i predict the next contact will be mother's day.

Yes, detachment is key.

Good job and echoing OwnIt - thank God the girls have you. How are your folks Irish? How goes the new house search?

xoxo

[Irish M]

I think that the flags could have gone either way. Our spouses could have been healed by devoting themselves to the marriage rather than destroying themselves and all the rest of us by destroying the marriage. I do think marriage offers us an amazing opportunity to become our highest selves because of the unconditional love it teaches. But in our cases, we had to cut that journey short when our spouses cut it short.

Hi Gerda, I 200% agree with that statement. They could have put all the energy they used detroying lives and put it all into something worth building. Marriage is sacred to me and I am not a guy that just gives up. In this case I had no choice.

Hi Ownit.
Not sure its a sign of courage her reaching out. I am thinking more it's an attempt to temp check and see if I am still cold to her. I am neither cold nor warm. I am indifferent. If she showed any remorse at all I might have become less indifferent to her a little.
Also she is nowhere ready to face the girls. They are teenagers still 17-19. Yes young adults but teens just the same. To be challenged by the girls questions and possible attitude . She would have to be in a better place to handle it. Not in avoindance and blame.


Hi Bttrfly ((hugs))


So to update you all. XW messaged me today.

Asking : Hi Irish , did the girls see my email?

I was honest and said yes they did. Did you get a reply?

No Irish. nothing from them. You sure they read it?

Yes, they read it. Maybe they are not ready to answer just yet.

ok then Irish , I guess I will give up too. I will respect their choices as well and just stop trying.

XW? You misunderstood my reply. Where did I say that they are giving up? You have just started to try and you are are ready to give up all ready. XW, do what you want, unless your attempt was only to make you feel good about yourself. Now you are saying you will give up because the girls are not reacting just yet. If anyone asks you about your girls you can tell them you tried but the girls are not wanting anything from you.

I am sure you will figure it out one day. I pray you will. Until then take care of yourself.

she of course won't reply to that. So i think for a while she will be quiet. After all mothers day is around the corner, that can't be fun for her.


So Bttrfly to answer your questions. My parents are doing well. They are a bit stubborn because in my house hunting |I was thinking of having them move as well. I saw a few houses that have side apatments , intergeneration houses where my parents could move into. They keep telling me it will be too much trouble for me. I say it will give me peace of mind having them close. I am looking to buy about 45mins out. Not a far distance but still far enough. My mom is set in her ways. I need to respect that

so house hunting is still going on. I saw a few. had inspections done to 2 of them and pulled out after the report. The type of home I am looking for is an older home. Lots of wood. On a minimum 1/2 acre lot. I'll find it i know. just need to be patient.

D17 is graduating this summer. So we will soon go dress shopping. I did it with D19 when she graduated. I wouldn't miss it for the world. Also she has rescheduled her driving exam as she didnt feel ready to drive in the snow. Lots of exciting things for her this year. Her anxiety is under control and health is back to normal. So I am crossing my fingers.

D19 is in her last session of jr college then off to university. We are moving to an area that has better access to downtown via a train. Much better commute than the traffic she drives in now.

have good week everyone.
Irish

[bttrfly]

it is very difficult for older people to leave their routines and friends. The loneliness that I've seen accompany old age is heartbreaking .I know you want them with you but it might be better for them to be in their routines and with people with whom they have strong and longterm relationships. its still early for the spring market, re house hunting .I'm sure you'll find just what you're looking for. glad d17 has her health back and the anxiety under control.. I can't believe d19 will be off to university next year already. wow.. time flies, doesn't it? {{{Irish}}}

[peacetoday]

Your XW probably feels the rejection from them and due to her past programming from childhood may get stuck for a while until
she tries again..


I think it is difficult for many MLCers to figure it out because they don't get any good advice from the people they speak with or they don't listen to the suggestions of a good therapist if they have one

I like thew way you respond to her and your compassions and patience..really you have tried to make her see the truth here-

and after a bit of reflection...I believe she will come back around

[job]

She's going to come back around very, very soon. She's got to mull over what you said. She still can't or won't accept her part in the breakdown of communication w/her girls. So very sad.

[Irish M]

Good evening everyone.

Well the saga continues

She did take a few days to get back to the conversation. You were right on that Job.

So this monday. She of course messages me and not the girls.

Irish, so what can i do the help. there is surely something.

I waited for a few hours to answer her. Well XW, financially would be a good start.

The 100$ a month isnt going to far.

100$ ??? what are you talking about. I give way more than that. The government must be scamming us.

XW, the gov't takes it off your pay and deposits it to mine. They deduct it from your salary before taxes. And at the end of the year its a tax deduction for you. The dont scam of the top.

Oh. either way. I have 20$ left to my name at the end of each month.

Are you still smoking? ( she started up when she left. this is after a 15 year no smoking)

Yes.

Well we all have our priorities I guess. So I guess the only think you can do is email the girls. Your last message was that you are giving up

You know i really think you should get me in to talk to D17 psychologist. Me and D17 can both go together. We can all go together.

XW, we had this conversation already. It's not a good thing at this point. D17 needs the individual therapy. I'm sure if she sees that you are really commited to being in her life she will include you. I can't help you.

I was looking at some pictures. we really had some good times.

Yes we did. The girls have good memories. take care XW. I have to go.

Tuesday she was quite. Also her texting is still during work hours. In the first year she said she wont email the girls from the home to not interfere with her life at her new apartment. So I guess this is the same. 8-5pm only.

this morning .. was something else.

Irish, we need to talk more. And over text is not the best way. It's up to you but we should call. Also I don't have internet so I can't message.

XW, I'm confused. What's going on in your head right now? I need to be honest with you. You are trying hard yes, but I havent once heard how are the girls. Or I am sorry for hurting them. Maybe you are not there yet. Maybe you are trying to be nice in hopes that I force the girls to meet up or call you. Try to be honest with me and you will maybe gain some respect and I'll be more open to hearing you out. |Right now I will just repeat. Email the girls. It's between you and them.

Irish. How are the girls?

Well since you ask. D19 is doing good in school. It's her focus. She does have anger still about what you did and it's normal. It's part of her healing. D17 has a harder time. Axiety and therapy still. Her overall health has improved. Her episodes have stopped. As long as she keeps her stress down she is good. They have come a long way and have been through a trauma that I never planned for . I am sure didn't plan for this to be the girls reality.

Irish, you have no idea. I have been through so much. I actually don't see a thearapist at all. I have a help line if needed. I was on sleeping pills for a long time but I am off them now. I try to meditate or just scream outloud. I have pain. I didn't let it take over my soul though.


Sorry about all that . Gald you are coping. A lot of "I" in your reply. Not one comment on the girls. You see what I mean. It seems still to be about you.


I am a good mother . The girls need a mother.

definition of mother is - female who gives birth to offspring. Easy enough if you are blessed to have children.
What you were supposed to be was a parent. You lost that quality. Anyone can be a mother. Not everyone can be a parent. A parent puts their kids first.



So she is waking up in some sort of way. more communication that ever before. We will see where it goes. The gilrs havent mentioned any emails or text from her to them so i figure xw is still hoping I will make a bridge between them.
I am not ready to. I havent seen enpough of real remorse to want to help her.

I also won't reply the same day anymore. I feel my emotional side shines through in my messages to her and I need to be more neutral.


not where I want to be. I am still moving on.

[HaWho]

Irish - thanks for sharing as it’s a fascinating glimpse at touches of waking up.

I have to say I think your responses to her are neutral and quite measured though I am sure you feel very emotional during and after contact with her; and justifiably so. It was hard to read that she remembers there were good times given the way she burned bridges. The parent definition/comment you made was quite a 2x4 for her I think.

As I always said, you are a tank!