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A Message from Michele
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Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: JujuB] #2883873
02/03/20 11:06 PM
02/03/20 11:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
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Wanted1 Offline
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Originally Posted by JujuB
I donít think that you have to forgive in order to avoid being bitter or angry. I wonít forgive - but I have no desire for revenge.


I tend to agree with this sentiment. I have no desire to forgive the AP who my XW is still with. It's odd, but I feel more animosity toward him that I do her. Part of that probably comes from the fact that in my sitch, he spent time with my family before the A took place and therefore he was a predator with his sole mission being to destroy my family which in turn affected my kids. Now, he tries to portray himself as this loving man who cares so much about my children. Makes me sick to my stomach. His truth is not what he portrays. Far from it.

With all of that said, I won't forgive him. By forgiveness, I mean show either of them I am OK or that I condone the fact that they are together. If she was with ANYONE else, I'd be completely fine with it/him as long as he was good to my kids. There is just something about him and how he pursued a married woman that he knew had 3 small children that won't allow me to go there.

I look at it from this standpoint: I have no choice but to deal with a cheater in my everyday life in coparenting with my ex. I have to do that. But I don't have to deal with two of them. So, he gets zero respect from me and while I've only crossed paths with him on a handful of occasions thus far, I don't give him the time of day nor even look in his direction. He is nothing to me. My girls have a basketball tournament this weekend. It's my weekend and I'm coaching them. It'll be interesting to see if he decides to show up. If he does, it's on my time with my kids and therefore he isn't allowed in their vicinity. She can come and interact with them, etc., but he isn't allowed to do the same.

I don't view this as anger or bitterness, necessarily. I just made a choice that I'm not going to let him think I'm ok with him just waltzing into my kids lives after what he did to destroy it. I don't dwell on it anymore. I've come to accept the fact that he's going to be around for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean I need to allow them to be around him when they are with me. Like I said, if it was ANYONE else, I'd be more accepting of them engaging with the kids on my time. I've drawn a line in the sand and I'm not crossing it at this point in time.


M: 34 W:34
D:7 D:6 S:3

M: 9.5 years T: 12

OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18
IHS begins
W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18
W files: 12/21/18
D Final: 2/25/19
Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883900
02/04/20 07:34 AM
02/04/20 07:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,710
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Wanted... I get where you are coming from, I really do. I am no fan of my XHís AP either. But...my kids have a relationship with her so if we ever find ourselves in the same vicinity and they are there, I will be genuinely cordial and polite. I will not make my kids uncomfortable which is what would happen if I drew a line in the sand and told them they werenít allowed to interact with her in my presence. My kids need me to be okay and I am... so I will not ever give them the impression that Iím not by being less than my usual friendly self when she is around. She does not deserve my forgiveness but they do. Your kids do too. (((HUGS)))


Me 51
H 46
B/G Twins 11
SD19
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Wanted1] #2883918
02/04/20 01:58 PM
02/04/20 01:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
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doodler Offline
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Originally Posted by Wanted1
I don't view this as anger or bitterness, necessarily. I just made a choice that I'm not going to let him think I'm ok with him just waltzing into my kids lives after what he did to destroy it. I don't dwell on it anymore. I've come to accept the fact that he's going to be around for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean I need to allow them to be around him when they are with me. Like I said, if it was ANYONE else, I'd be more accepting of them engaging with the kids on my time. I've drawn a line in the sand and I'm not crossing it at this point in time.

For any given situation, I don't know what's best. But, for myself, I didn't want my sons to perceive me to be a weak milquetoast that would allow the OM to walk all over me. I made it clear to the OM, very publicly, that I wouldn't tolerate the OM being around my sons. The OM understood that it was in his best interest to never touch my sons in any way.

Apparently the OM is long gone; I never see him at any of his favorite hangouts around town. (Believe me, I've gone looking.) But again, it was important to me that my sons understand that I wasn't going to tolerate that dirtbag.

Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883933
02/04/20 04:38 PM
02/04/20 04:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,858
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JujuB Offline
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Yeah. Iím with Doodler 100 percent. I couldnít be civil with an OW. With your ex spouse though, you do have to be civil for the kids sake but you donít have to forgive them. My civility stems more from, I know itís easier to get more from him and babysitting help from his mom if Iím civil then honest. (And by getting more - itís more for my son and technically things are nowhere equal to what he should be giving)

I donít think there is any right way. People, families, cultures are all different. For me personally, I didnít want my son to see or eventually learn about what his dad did to us and then think his dads actions were OK because I decided to share parties and forgive. (Early on his mom wanted a family birthday party with all of my family and her family for my son and my family refused to go). To me, that would have been like going out for drinks with your rapist. And I didnt Want my son to think it was ok to celebrate with people that abused you because kids tend to copy. Either the abuse and irresponsibility or the being abused and sucking it up.

I really donít understand the statement that forgiving someone is more for you then for them. It doesnít make sense to me and i canít wrap my finger around the concept. Forgiving my ex wouldnít make me feel good. Moving on with my life and recognizing what a pos he is and how much better my life is without him does.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883941
02/04/20 04:56 PM
02/04/20 04:56 PM
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Posts: 4,560
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TBSakaJ9 Offline
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I agree, I don't think I will ever forgive my XW for what she did to ruin our family however I am to a point to where I don't let it consume me.

My revenge comes in my own happiness. My successes and moving on with my life.

I am civil with my XW, I can be in the same room with her, attend our kids functions together, have a joint birthday party as well but that still doesn't mean that I forgive her. I just put my kids first and what is in the best interest of them.

As far as her BF goes. He was not around when my XW first moved out. She did not meet him until several months later. While we were technically still married she was actively dating and started dating him before we were divorced. It is a reflection on the both of them and their characters but when she has our girls 50% of the time there is not much I can do to control their interactions. As long as he is kind to them and a positive influence what can I do when they are in her custody? I have to trust that my XW would not bring someone into their lives that shouldn't be there. My girls have never made a negative comment to me one time about him either. My oldest is 10, she is old enough to articulate herself.

They have been dating for over 2 years now and he has never come to 1 birthday, 1 game or any place where I am going to be. I have never met him but it's not because I have thrown down the gauntlet. In fact, I told my XW that she could bring him, that it didn't bother me. He still hasn't shown up. So who knows.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883946
02/04/20 05:39 PM
02/04/20 05:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,835
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Maika Offline
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I think that saying that you forgive someone else for whatever they did is pretty grandiose statement. It stems from a personal level of wanting to control the situation. I think the focus has to be self-forgiveness. I don't even think about whether I am forgiving my ex or not, it doesn't even cross my mind because I think in the grand scheme of things, it is irrelevant. There are thing you can control and things you can't. What I can control is how I act in this world for myself and my kids. Does this mean sometimes I have to bite my tongue or do something because it will be better for the kids, absolutely. But that is what emotional maturity is about.

In terms of laying down the law with the OM/OW, it all depends on context and I don't think there is a 'right' way to do things. I couldn't have laid the law down like doodler because exW and her bf live together and he's going to be around my kids. All I can control is how I parent and co-parent and address any boundary issues that may arise. So far the bf understands what his role is and where he stands.

As J said, my revenge also comes from my happiness and being able to be a way better man than I was back in the day. It has nothing to do with exW.

I just don't think there's any point holding on to anger, resentment etc. It just eats you up inside. The more you're focusing on forgiving the other person, the more you're giving away your energy to something that is ephemeral and will have no tangible improvements in your life.

That's why the saying 'revenge is a dish best served cold' is so apt. You want to serve it 'cold' - meaning that you have equilibrium and chill temperament, rather than serving it 'hot' with anger, resentment etc. Serving it hot means you will burn your hands on that plate while you serve it.

Practicing self-forgiveness and self-love, and releasing judgment on your past self is the best roadmap out of this predicament.


No one is coming to save you!

Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883950
02/04/20 05:51 PM
02/04/20 05:51 PM
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kml Offline
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I think the biggest point is that ongoing anger at an ex is corrosive to yourself. Sure, it may be helpful to some in the beginning to get up and out of a situation that isn't good. But eventually bitterness and anger corrupt your own life. That doesn't mean you have to say your ex wasn't wrong in what they did. But maybe just accepting that they're a smaller person than you thought and letting go of the need to see them punished.

Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883957
02/04/20 06:11 PM
02/04/20 06:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 308
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Wanted1 Offline
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DV,

I was going to respond but see that doodler pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I was going to say. That is my exact mindset. While I would never create a scene in front of my kids and make some dramatic ordeal out of the situation, I can stand up for what I believe is right by simply telling them that this is my time with them and that I already share 50% of my time with their mom and numskull (I wouldn't use that term) and therefore this is their time to share with me.

They are young (8, 7 & 4) so they don't understand the dynamics of what happened or the situation at all, yet. What I don't want to happen is when they are older and they DO find out, because trust me, they will, I don't want them to look back and wonder why I basically kowtowed and accepted him into our lives with no resistance whatsoever. Like doodler said, that's a weak, milquetoast way of handling things. I want to set a good example for my kids by showing them they need to be strong and stand up for what they believe in and not to condone wrong behavior or essentially be 'OK' with people who have wronged you.

exW reached out via text this morning to explain that she was going to be at the basketball tourney this weekend and that S4 can sit with her during the games while I'm coaching. I asked, "is AP going to be there?" and her response was "No." So, that's a relief and just a sign that they respect my wishes that he not be present around me. I told her that S4 can sit with whomever he wants (my parents and my sister and her family are coming, too). My guess is he will float around amongst them all and that is perfectly fine with me. If he was going to be attending, that wouldn't be happening. I'm sorry, I'm just not able to allow that when they are on MY time.

Juju,

I agree with you in some aspects on not understanding that forgiving a person is for you and not them. I think that's just an easy way to explain it and there is much more to it. TB basically responded with what I mean in that forgiving a person frees yourself from all of the negativity and junk that consumes you and robs you of joy, happiness and simply time you spend dwelling on them/the sitch. That is the part where the forgiveness is for you and not them. However, that same forgiveness benefits them as well. So, while it is for you and your own mental health, it's also for them, too, and that's the part I get hung up on....

I am not going to come out and articulate to either my XW or AP that "I forgive you" because that lets them off the hook in some ways and as I shared above, sort of condones their behavior which is a show of weakness IMO. In all actuality, what it's doing is saying, "hey, you ruined my family unit and hurt my kids, but it's OK! All is well, we are good!" I basically already did that twice in my M. My exW went outside the marriage two other times in the past, both with 2 of my best friends, and I forgave her and look where that got me? Her actions ultimately showed she didn't respect me as a man or a H for doing that. I wonder if I wouldn't have been so quick to forgive and move one if things would have transpired differently moving forward.

BUT, where the "forgiveness is for you, not them" statement derives from is more or less not letting them consume your thoughts, feelings, etc. And I've gotten to a point where that is true. I don't forgive them and at this point in time I find it unlikely that I ever will, but their actions and the situation as a whole isn't at the forefront of my mind anymore. It doesn't rob me of the joy I've found in life because of it. For me, there can be both. I can not forgive but also reap the benefits that forgiveness brings you in that it isn't negatively impacting my life.


M: 34 W:34
D:7 D:6 S:3

M: 9.5 years T: 12

OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18
IHS begins
W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18
W files: 12/21/18
D Final: 2/25/19
Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883961
02/04/20 06:40 PM
02/04/20 06:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,531
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AndrewP Offline
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I agree with the others - maybe it's a view that's biased because of those of us on this side of the board who've still hung around maybe aren't a representative sample.

One difference for me as well is that my kids are both adults. They have their own separate relationship with their mother and presumably OM that I have nothing to do with and no direct knowledge of. I've not spoken to my ex in quite a while - more than a couple of years now and never met OM. I have seen them in passing from time to time and my ex makes great efforts to not encounter me - or so it seems.

I've not forgiven her, nor will I ever. OM deserves only my disgust. In the unlikely event that we are socially at the same event - a son's marriage or something, I will be polite out of respect for my son.

I don't find the lack of forgiveness limiting. She's a person who has only a peripheral impact on my existence. Time and distance were necessary to get there though.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: Moved over from Newcomers... [Re: Chris73] #2883966
02/04/20 06:55 PM
02/04/20 06:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,560
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TBSakaJ9 Offline
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I think the quicker you can embrace the OP and not let it impact you the better off you will be. You are giving them power over you until you do.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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