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I know that the focus here is on the LBS and the WAS. But I was simply suggesting that not invalidating perceptions/feelings is a life skill that has benefits beyond DB. With any life skill, it does take practice and there is no better way to get practice than in a less stressful situation that an WAS and the LBS.

The LBS desperately wants to tell the WAS all the ways that their perception/feelings are wrong. Because, at least in most early days, the LBS thinks that will change things. I think MWD says something to that effect.

I do think Core's IC is not giving him the best advice about 1) telling his WAS that her perceptions are wrong and 2) initiating R talks at every chance.

I do hope you think no one was telling you how to post or what to say, that would be really frustrating.

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Hey Core...

A couple hits to start....

First off, snooping...

IF you can handle the information that you find, and it doesn't affect your inner peace, then feel free.
I think so, for most people here, that snooping spins them out of control, and allows you to become a victim of what someone else is "doing to you". It allows you to become controlling, and manipulative toward a person that you proclaim "unconditional love" for.

It allows you to buy into your fears, and become someone you are not on any typical day.

As it was simply put to me ?

Stop asking questions that you don't want the answer to.

Things have a way of coming to you when you most need them..

Snooping also allows you to buy into your fears....

Those fears, the ones you mentioned the other day. They are pretty fierce huh ???

Core, the worst thing that you can fathom, has already happened to you. And you survived it so far...
It took some time for me to realize that what was most important to me, was WHO I was, rather than WHAT I was.

Who I am, as a Man, a friend, a Father, a brother, a son, a spouse/partner, whatever the case may be, become infinitely more important than just being "married" .

I wasn't willing to sell myself, strictly to still wear that ring....

And I think that if you take all of that into account...

When you are snooping, or whatever..

Are you being the person that you want to be ???

For me....I wasn't. I wanted my spouse back, but not like that.

I think that the one thing that could help you more than anything right now, would be to stop holding her accountable for how you feel, and how you react.

She isn't responsible for how you portray yourself, and making her responsible for that isn't fair. To you or her.
I think that this is the key to a lot of your anger and resentment right now. She is doing "A", which makes you do "B", which causes "C",

I don't buy it. You worry about "U", and things will fall into place quickly for you...

Being honest with yourself, only worrying about what you can control, and not allowing yourself to make excuses for your behavior and actions, will be the greatest gift you give yourself now.

I know your IC told you that relationship talks are good. And they might be. But for who ?

I think the tightrope that you will walk here, is that they can be a good thing, as long as YOU aren't the one initiating them. If she comes to you ? Then by all means, partake. Just be a different you than you have been in the past.

Remember that there are typically 3 sides to the truth. Your side, her side, and in the middle is where truth usually lives.

When you talk with her, DO NOT defend yourself...

You are never gonna talk your way out of something you acted your way into..

Just because she says something, it doesn't make it fact, or true...

However, it is very true for her.

You cannot disagree with how another person feels. And unless you accept that those are her feelings, you will never be able to make her feel safe, and heard....

That's prolly enough for now. I won't want to overload you anymore than you probably already are...

I just want you to know that this is about you Core.

Something simply asked to me early on, was...
.
Do you want to be defined, by the worst thing that has happened to you ???

You will have to answer that one day...

Because as you sit here today, the OLD marriage is dead and gone. It isn't something that you would want to merely revive anyhow.

Anything in the future would have to be re-born from that ashes of what is left.

And the solid foundation begins with you....

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Originally Posted by AnotherStander

^^^THIS is how marriages fall apart. Resentment builds on both sides, and both feel like the other doesn't understand their side. Often the only difference between a WAS and LBS is who dropped the bomb first. Almost always, both have been thinking about it for a long time. But once one drops the bomb, it triggers regret in the other and then they end up here telling their story.


Wow that really hits home to me, because I do think back on how when my wife would tell me things that she felt were going wrong I would just immediately think she was wrong and become defensive, and the resentment would just build over time.

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Originally Posted by Mach1

It allows you to buy into your fears, and become someone you are not on any typical day.

Stop asking questions that you don't want the answer to.

Things have a way of coming to you when you most need them..

Snooping also allows you to buy into your fears....

Those fears, the ones you mentioned the other day. They are pretty fierce huh ???

Core, the worst thing that you can fathom, has already happened to you. And you survived it so far...
It took some time for me to realize that what was most important to me, was WHO I was, rather than WHAT I was.

Who I am, as a Man, a friend, a Father, a brother, a son, a spouse/partner, whatever the case may be, become infinitely more important than just being "married" .

I wasn't willing to sell myself, strictly to still wear that ring....

And I think that if you take all of that into account...

When you are snooping, or whatever..

Are you being the person that you want to be?

I think that the one thing that could help you more than anything right now, would be to stop holding her accountable for how you feel, and how you react.

She isn't responsible for how you portray yourself, and making her responsible for that isn't fair. To you or her.
I think that this is the key to a lot of your anger and resentment right now. She is doing "A", which makes you do "B", which causes "C",

I don't buy it. You worry about "U", and things will fall into place quickly for you...

Being honest with yourself, only worrying about what you can control, and not allowing yourself to make excuses for your behavior and actions, will be the greatest gift you give yourself now.

I know your IC told you that relationship talks are good. And they might be. But for who ?

I think the tightrope that you will walk here, is that they can be a good thing, as long as YOU aren't the one initiating them. If she comes to you ? Then by all means, partake. Just be a different you than you have been in the past.

Remember that there are typically 3 sides to the truth. Your side, her side, and in the middle is where truth usually lives.

When you talk with her, DO NOT defend yourself...

You are never gonna talk your way out of something you acted your way into..

Just because she says something, it doesn't make it fact, or true...

However, it is very true for her.

You cannot disagree with how another person feels. And unless you accept that those are her feelings, you will never be able to make her feel safe, and heard....

Do you want to be defined, by the worst thing that has happened to you ???

You will have to answer that one day...

Because as you sit here today, the OLD marriage is dead and gone. It isn't something that you would want to merely revive anyhow.

And the solid foundation begins with you....


Clubbed over the head with 2x4s. Thank you for this. I don't know where to begin. This came in time as I almost resorted to snooping again. That person is not what I want to be or ever wanted to be. Snooping is a moral line I never wanted to cross, and I agree that I'm to blame for crossing my own line. If I found any new evidence, the little peace I have now would be shattered.

Some of this is hard to hear but needed. Prime example is me blaming her for how she makes me feel or her making me take actions. That's been behind a number of conflicts during the course of the marriage. Lots of NGS on my end. Easier to blame her than control and be accountable my actions.

As much as I think I am the solid foundation of a new relationship, whomever that may be with, you, Steve, Mario, U, Ovr, Job, AS, R2C and the others generously giving feedback have rocked me, in a good way.

The challenge now is the high number of things to work on and self improve. I had no idea how broken I became. All with due time I suppose. Almost paralyzing looking at my changes to implement and hold for life.

Your comment about WHO I am versus WHAT I am...I don't know if I even know who I am. My mind is blown from the BD and now the DB. Its like I've been carpet bombed and am rebuilding amongst the devastation. Pieces are everywhere. Thank you for getting me thinking.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

^^^THIS is how marriages fall apart. Resentment builds on both sides, and both feel like the other doesn't understand their side. Often the only difference between a WAS and LBS is who dropped the bomb first. Almost always, both have been thinking about it for a long time. But once one drops the bomb, it triggers regret in the other and then they end up here telling their story.


AS, that resonates so much with my sitch. You and the other here have me convinced to listen and validate, even if she's way off base. Its her feelings and perspective that matter.

Mario, Steve and the others on here, thank you for continuing to support and helping me to get in a better place.
My anger is whittling down. My W tells me she's angry at me all the time. Now I know how she feels. This is going to be a LONG process. I'm starting to engrain validating others. Very seldom is there a chance with W, so I am learning with D4 and coworkers. Energy levels are kicking up more days than not. I'd love to hit the gym more if I could but recovery physically is not like my 20s!

Last edited by Core; 01/08/20 06:04 PM.

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Core, believe it or not, anger is not the end of the world. I have seen many marriages where there was an unhappy, "I want out" spouse, but there was no anger. There was no hate. But there also was no love. The biggest death knell for any MR is apathy. Once a spouse no longer cares, then the marriage is probably headed towards an end.

My own sitch ALMOST go to that point. My W was in the beginning stages of apathy. And once complete apathy sets in there is almost no going back.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Core, believe it or not, anger is not the end of the world. I have seen many marriages where there was an unhappy, "I want out" spouse, but there was no anger. There was no hate. But there also was no love. The biggest death knell for any MR is apathy. Once a spouse no longer cares, then the marriage is probably headed towards an end.

My own sitch ALMOST go to that point. My W was in the beginning stages of apathy. And once complete apathy sets in there is almost no going back.


You see Love is a CHOICE and if 2 people choose it everyday then all is good.

BUT when one stops = trouble.


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Originally Posted by Core

Clubbed over the head with 2x4s. Thank you for this. I don't know where to begin. This came in time as I almost resorted to snooping again. That person is not what I want to be or ever wanted to be. Snooping is a moral line I never wanted to cross, and I agree that I'm to blame for crossing my own line. If I found any new evidence, the little peace I have now would be shattered.


And now that you "know" , you can't use it as an excuse again....


Originally Posted by Core
Some of this is hard to hear but needed. Prime example is me blaming her for how she makes me feel or her making me take actions. That's been behind a number of conflicts during the course of the marriage. Lots of NGS on my end. Easier to blame her than control and be accountable my actions.


NGS, or whatever you want to call it is fairly common in a relationship. I have to come to find that there is a high percentage that is necessary in a relationship.

We Men want to eat meat, have sex, drink beer and be treated as if we are the king of the world. But even as we have evolved as people, there is still the primate in us all.

I think that it goes back to how we CHOOSE to be daily. And finding that balance between the bravado and the softer side of us. Realizing that a Man can be completely barbaric and incredibly emasculated at the same time ??

Maybe...

How can you make that dynamic different ?


Originally Posted by Core
As much as I think I am the solid foundation of a new relationship, whomever that may be with, you, Steve, Mario, U, Ovr, Job, AS, R2C and the others generously giving feedback have rocked me, in a good way.



Sometimes you have to start climbing the ladder from the bottom rung...



Originally Posted by Core
The challenge now is the high number of things to work on and self improve. I had no idea how broken I became. All with due time I suppose. Almost paralyzing looking at my changes to implement and hold for life.



I would venture that you aren't totally broken...

Just a little out of sorts, and confused on what, where, when, and why you are doing what you do...

Try to not look at this as being broken, but as an opportunity to become anew...



Originally Posted by Core
Your comment about WHO I am versus WHAT I am...I don't know if I even know who I am. My mind is blown from the BD and now the DB. Its like I've been carpet bombed and am rebuilding amongst the devastation. Pieces are everywhere. Thank you for getting me thinking.



Start small. One day at a time, one hour at a time....one minute at a time if you need be...

I started with a list of qualities that I want to SHOW the world everyday, regardless of what was being shown to me or what was going on around me...

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I know Mach knows how to eat an elephant.

Do you?

Answer = One bite at a time. smile smile smile


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Hey Mach! Glad to see you are back! Happy New Year!

Please, please listen to Mach...he knows what he is talking about. He's been around a long time and his advice is spot on!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Originally Posted by job
Hey Mach! Glad to see you are back! Happy New Year!

Please, please listen to Mach...he knows what he is talking about. He's been around a long time and his advice is spot on!


Happy New Year Job !!!!

Thank you, and flattery will get you everywhere wink

Hope things are well with you and yours ???

Lots of great advice here, I'm just hoping I can contribute....

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