New to the club

[Taz]

Please help, I need some sage advice and all opinions are welcome.

S21 went to visit W tonight with the intention of convincing her to go see a therapist. He returned saying that she was in tears mainly over how S19 interacts with her. They were very close and the separation has turned him apathetic towards her. So S21 came home and said she is willing to have all of us meet with a family counselor to work on our family communication issues.

Is this a good idea? Are we even a family right now? Would a counselor even work with us in our current fractured state. I would be willing to go if it would help W’s relationship with the boys. I realize that this would not be MC or address any of those issues. Maybe I should just have her and the boys go.

I personally think that she needs IC first.

I don’t think she mentioned the divorce to S21 and I haven’t yet either.

Taz

[LH19]

Taz,

I think it’s ok to go as long as you have no expectations that it’s anything other then how to communicate as a family.

Why do you think she needs IC first?

[Taz]

LH,

I think she is MLC and needs more time. She currently has the communication skills of Middle Schooler - this was a quote from S21. She has avoided tough conversations her whole life. It seems fruitless to have a counseling session on communication when she hasn’t been able to communicate effectively for years when the topic is sensitive.

She has only seen our sons 2 times since 4th of July and they have been here at the family home a lot due to COVID college schedules.

Maybe this will help. I guess it’s worth the time. Might give me an opportunity to validate W and the boys feelings.

Yeah no expectations.

Taz

[DnJ]

Hello Taz

A family counselling session is not a good idea.

My kids treat XW much the same as S19 is treating his Mom. That is a normal evolution and consequence from what their Mom has done.

Some advice. Do not get it the middle of it. Let S19 and Mom sort out their relationship. You injecting yourself into the middle, with all good intentions, will back fire upon you. Been there. Done that. Please listen. It’s not a fun time! When things go south between son and Mom, and they will, if you are involved you are going to got get blamed from both sides.

Your W is in crisis. She is incapable of empathy. She cannot handle her own feelings never mind anyone else’s. Counselling will be perverted into a justification and reason for why she had to leave and why the family is the way it is. She cannot yet look to herself or her actions.

Your boys can speak with you. They are well balanced and adjusted. It is not them that is having a communication problem. Mom hasn’t spoken to them for months. And much longer since truly speaking with them - stuff like values, life, morals, etc.

The boys are finding their way to incorporate and express their values with what Mom has done. And she doesn’t like it. She is a teenager and is attempting to shift the blame.

Is this a good idea? Are we even a family right now?

IMHO, family counselling is not a good idea. And not needed.

You and the boys are family. A strong good family. W is currently not part of that.

I am living a similar situation my friend. My four kids and I are a strong happy healthy family. It was a heck of road to get here, and well worth the effort.

Some inspirational ideas and suggestions for you Taz. Tell your boys about the divorce. They deserve to know. And it will be better for you, honest.

Change your signature line to STBXW. She is not XW yet, but not W either. Be accurate for you. (By the way, I know and empathize with how much that svcks.)

Be Dad. Make your relationship with your boys. Build it stronger and better, everyday. Make it the best you can. (Stop worrying or considering STBXW’s relationship with them. That is their relationship and their responsibility.)

Forgive. Find it. Believe it. Live it.

Stand. Stand for you. I know you have strong moral values. One’s you would die for. Now, do better - live for them!

Living for our beliefs is harder (at first) and way way more fulfilling.

Head up and live tall my friend. Your path is an honourable one. Much respect.

D

[job]

I agree w/what DnJ posted to you. It's not wise to have a family counseling session at this time. If anyone should be seeing a counselor on their own right now is your w. She needs to look deeply within herself and figure out why she feels the way that she does. She can't do that if the focus is on the "family" unit.

Also, your children are old enough to speak and/or interact w/their mother and you have to step aside and allow their interactions w/their mother play out. Yes, you can listen and offer advice to them, but don't get in the middle of the mix when it comes to attempting to "fix" the communication problems between the parties.

Step back, allow things to play out and if you think you need counseling, then go...solo.

[Taz]

So I put my big boy pants on today and had heart to heart conversations with S21 and S19. Told them about the pending D. I did not vilify STBXW, just told them that she seems broken right now and it’s up to her to seek the help she needs.

Told them that I will continue pray for her and show her compassion when the situation arrives.

Told them that they need to decide how they interact with her going forward and I will support their decisions.

Hope I did ok.

Taz

[DnJ]

Hello Taz

Well done!

Good for you.

Having those open honest heartfelt conversations with our children is needed, and feels so difficult. I am positive they appreciated you being honest with them and confirming the pending divorce and the irrational situation with their Mom, which they surely can see.

Letting them know that you support them is excellent. They will need your support and guidance. It’s a matter of gently guiding them, while listening to their emotions and struggles. Grief is a process, with twists and turns, as one travels towards acceptance. Kids are no different, for they have lost something as well. Be their beacon who demonstrates how to be kind and cordial, compassionate and understanding, and live a great life. They will follow. Have faith and believe in yourself.

Very good not demonizing or vilifying Mom. Remaining calm and open encourages the kids to reach out to you. In time, I suspect they will ask many questions. Continue being open and honest in your response. Strong, stable, and non-disparaging towards Mom will serve you and your family well.

Good job Dad!

D

[97Hope]

So I put my big boy pants on today and had heart to heart conversations with S21 and S19. Told them about the pending D. I did not vilify STBXW, just told them that she seems broken right now and it’s up to her to seek the help she needs.

Told them that I will continue pray for her and show her compassion when the situation arrives.

Told them that they need to decide how they interact with her going forward and I will support their decisions.

Hope I did ok.

Taz

I think this is perfect. It's tempting to try and help but whatever you do - let them navigate their own R's with their mom.

Something I use (from my own IC) is "your relationship with your father is separate as is your relationship with me. I am here to love and support you no matter what you decide. (my sons are 27,23,19)

Good work, Taz. You are doing amazing!

[Taz]

Thanks for all the support. She has done some potentially very hurtful things the past six weeks since thanksgiving that I was trying to shield them from. Oddly it has not bothered me as I thought it would. What bothered me was how it might affect them. S21 knows the full details as I know he was emotionally strong enough to handle it and he took it like a champ. I gave a very less detailed version to S19. I still need to look out for him as he may hear about this from others (I hope not).

I slept well last night. My next goal is to put a little weight back on. I have lost 25lbs over the past 15 months. A lot of this is likely do to my GAL workouts and running but others are concerned I'm too thin.

I haven't shared what I discovered. Some was done to snooping others was just to her not knowing that her Venmo friends are visible to her other friends. She has a secret boyfriend or FWB. Lets put the emphasis on the word boy. If this gets out it would ruin her reputation in our community while dragging the rest of us through the mud as well. I'll keep this secret for the boys and my benefit for now. But not sure I will in the future if it continues.

I would have bet my life savings she would never do something this morally wrong. Glad I didn't.

Taz

[97Hope]

I'm dealing with that at the moment as well. X introduced the OW as just an "old friend", new GF.

The older kids see through it, they remember things that I had no idea they knew, but the 19 y/o isn't facing it yet. He's "standing by his dad" in his words.

I don't shield them from anything, but I don't help X dig his grave. I've removed myself from it. At this point I don't even discuss it with the older boys - as I told them, it doesn't have anything to do with me, and I need to keep it that way, for my life going forward, and detachment. S19 makes passing references, but that's about it.

Have told them all they have to make choices with regards to R with their Dad but it's not mine to interfere, just love them and respect their choices.

My best advice, is always be honest. Don't ever cover for them. It destroys the trust that your boys have in YOU, making it your issue.

I did give them each time to ask me questions - about the timeline etc. Some people will just say stay out of it, the truth will out, but I think you know your sons. For mine, they were just as shocked as I was and the truth made them realize that they weren't crazy.

My X went off on me one time because my S22 asked if he had moved out and I confirmed. At that point, X tried to made me the issue. You may have to deal with that at some point, but stand your ground.

So - honesty above all. Kids can deal with that - any lies or deceit will damage relationships. Even if it's to "protect' them.

You will be ok. I am and I was a total mess!

*re: 'boy' friend. Mine is dating probably the most unlikely person. The kids are shocked and even not knowing at first she was OW were just blown away. She's beyond inappropriate (not in age, she has other issues). I know you know this, but truly - it isn't about you.