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Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: phnix] #2879818
01/10/20 11:32 AM
01/10/20 11:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,149
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LH19 Offline
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Well P in your defense it's very confusing because there is so many different pieces of advice you are getting on the board.

I can't give you anymore advice but I want to say that I hope you the best and I really hope your boys understand some day that you did the best you could with the hand you were dealt.

I can't remember your age but I think you are fairly young. Take a year or two and just focus on you and the boys. You have to get stronger. With your parents divorce and yiur Ws choices it has understandably had an effect on you. You have to get to a place where you will not tolerate people in your life that don't respect you.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: phnix] #2879837
01/10/20 01:30 PM
01/10/20 01:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,812
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AnotherStander Offline
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,812
Originally Posted by phnix
Do you guys think it’s ok for her to go out to dinner with me and my son? Hard to tell her no especially after my son’s basketball game.


It's fine, but the key is you have to do it with zero expectations. It doesn't change anything. Personally I feel strongly that it's important for both parents to support their kids together. XW and I continued to have joint bday parties for the kids, and we both went to school functions, football games, meet-the-teacher events, etc. After S we didn't drive together, and sometimes we didn't sit together. But we were both there for them. And yes, we sometimes went and had dinner together afterwards. When you do these things just be mindful that it is for the kids.

Now that said, sometimes an LBS just falls apart every time they are around the WAS and they need to go dark to save themselves. If that is you then I would recommend that you do not have dinner with your W even for the kids, at least for a while. Tell her that you need some time and space from her and that you think it would be best not to have meals together for a while until you've done some healing.

Originally Posted by phnix
I’ve got a very close friend that lives in another state. I respect him very much and he is a devoted Christian family man. His advice for me is to get a divorce ASAP.


The purpose being what? Most LBS's that pursue D in less than a year post-BD are doing so out of a desperate attempt to either "regain control" or "wake up their spouse" or both. It accomplishes neither of those things. You've got to work on yourself and process your grief first, THEN decide if you want to pursue D.

Quote
He thinks that my 13yr old son has already told me things like, “You only care about mom and that I let her tell me what to do etc..”. He thinks my son will eventually lose respect for me and in turn will choose to live with my W because he thinks she is the stronger person. This really scares me as I plan on having him with me the next 4 years and being able to coach him and spend a lot of time with him. In reading, “Love must be tough”, Dobson cites several situations where the kids end up resenting and not respecting the spouse that put up with the affair. In some instances they blamed the betrayed spouse due to not taking action.


BD is arguably the biggest kick to the balls you can possibly receive in your life. It makes you question yourself as a person, a man, a husband, a father, a worker, a friend. You fall completely apart to begin with. At this stage your kids will see someone who is broken, without confidence, and utterly lost. That will scare and confuse them. But then you begin the slow process of rebuilding yourself. You gain back your self-respect, your sense of value and worth, your independence, and your sense of what it is to be a man. You rise above. You become the rock and the lighthouse. Your kids see someone stronger and more confident than they've ever seen before, and they will admire and respect that. So keep rebuilding yourself.

There's no magic trick here (especially not divorce), you've got to do the work. Get out and GAL. Leave your W alone. Don't talk about her to or around the kids. Be super-dad. Focus on activities that make you feel better and more confident. Don't talk about your M to friends and family, talk about your GAL activities instead. Make this all about you and the kids.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: AnotherStander] #2879838
01/10/20 01:38 PM
01/10/20 01:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
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spoused2 Offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander


There's no magic trick here (especially not divorce), you've got to do the work. Get out and GAL. Leave your W alone. Don't talk about her to or around the kids. Be super-dad. Focus on activities that make you feel better and more confident. Don't talk about your M to friends and family, talk about your GAL activities instead. Make this all about you and the kids.



Why do guys always start with the superdad stuff once the bomb as been dropped? Men here always talk about being attractive to women. You know what's attractive? A man who doesn't neglect his kids and is engaged with his kids. It's sad that it takes a divorce to show many men that they need to be involved in their kids lives.

I understand that for the boomers and older an engaged dad was a rarity, but times have changed.

Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: LH19] #2879846
01/10/20 01:55 PM
01/10/20 01:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,061
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hoosjim Offline
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Quote
Well P in your defense it's very confusing because there is so many different pieces of advice you are getting on the board.


When one does encounter apparently conflicting or disparate views on these boards, I always found that it was helpful to 1) Look more closely for common threads/aspects or underlying themes 2) Where possible, compare a posters sitch with your own to see how similar or different they are and 3) Test the advice against the DB-ing principles.

As to actual differing advice on P's thread-- other than you posting that you think he ought to file for D right now, and me and joejoe saying that an actual D is not necessary, I am seeing a whole lot of commonality of advice here. And even your advice that he should D right now is not really out of line with the general sentiment on here, which is that he definitely needs to separate himself from her, detach, drop the rope, go dark, etc. The only difference is in how precisely we think that should be done, and i would posit there is not even that much difference. I haven't seen anyone on here who has said "fight against a D for all your worth"... in fact, I myself have said he should consult a lawyer to protect himself, and that he should not necessarily fight a D... just that I don't think that a D is necessary for him to set good boundaries and detach and gain his respect back... let her do the heavy work on that. And that goes doubly if he is at all thinking they might get back together at some point-- make her have to do the work and be the "bad guy" by filing and recognize some of the consequences of her actions. I think MWD and the DB books, as well as Sandi2 are consistent with that course of action. We all believe the same thing: He needs some kind of separation from her-- to drop the rope, detach, go dark, stop playing family with her, regain some respect and move on with his life. The D itself wont necessarily accomplish that in a vacuum--although it certainly could-- it is just a tool, a piece of paper, a possible means to an end we all advocate.

I think for those coming here for help, nearly every poster has something to offer on here if you look closely enough. The differing perspectives are one of the things that actually makes it interesting and valuable-- but, at the end of the day, I think most of the folks on here have pretty much the same views on the fundamentals: Detach, drop the rope, don't take any disrespect, 180, GAL, work on yourself, be strong, be the "lighthouse" (for your kids, and, if you entertain the goal of reconciliation somewhere down the road, for your spouse).

We're all pulling for you, P

Last edited by hoosjim; 01/10/20 01:58 PM.

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: spoused2] #2879855
01/10/20 02:13 PM
01/10/20 02:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,117
NY
Cadet Offline

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Cadet  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,117
NY
Originally Posted by spoused2
Originally Posted by AnotherStander


There's no magic trick here (especially not divorce), you've got to do the work. Get out and GAL. Leave your W alone. Don't talk about her to or around the kids. Be super-dad. Focus on activities that make you feel better and more confident. Don't talk about your M to friends and family, talk about your GAL activities instead. Make this all about you and the kids.



Why do guys always start with the superdad stuff once the bomb as been dropped? Men here always talk about being attractive to women. You know what's attractive? A man who doesn't neglect his kids and is engaged with his kids. It's sad that it takes a divorce to show many men that they need to be involved in their kids lives.

I understand that for the boomers and older an engaged dad was a rarity, but times have changed.



Spoused2 it seems you asked and answered your own question.

The fact that men need to be reminded of this is sad but dont think for one minute that women also dont need to be reminded of it too.


Me-66, D33,S32
Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: Cadet] #2879871
01/10/20 02:47 PM
01/10/20 02:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 27,162
Southern Maryland
job Online

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Posts: 27,162
Southern Maryland
Cadet,

Very well said.

Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: Cadet] #2879875
01/10/20 02:52 PM
01/10/20 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
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spoused2 Offline
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Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Cadet

The fact that men need to be reminded of this is sad but dont think for one minute that women also dont need to be reminded of it too.


Women need to be reminded of what exactly? I wish I knew what you were trying to say.

Last edited by spoused2; 01/10/20 02:54 PM.
Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: spoused2] #2879879
01/10/20 02:58 PM
01/10/20 02:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,117
NY
Cadet Offline

Member
Cadet  Offline

Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,117
NY
Originally Posted by spoused2
Originally Posted by Cadet

The fact that men need to be reminded of this is sad but dont think for one minute that women also dont need to be reminded of it too.


Women need to be reminded of what exactly? I wish I knew what you were trying to say.


Exactly what you said- it applies to women too.

Quote
Why do guys always start with the superdad stuff once the bomb as been dropped? Men here always talk about being attractive to women. You know what's attractive? A man who doesn't neglect his kids and is engaged with his kids. It's sad that it takes a divorce to show many men that they need to be involved in their kids lives.


Me-66, D33,S32
Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: hoosjim] #2879895
01/10/20 03:52 PM
01/10/20 03:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 279
P
phnix Offline OP
Member
phnix  Offline OP
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P
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by hoosjim
Quote
Well P in your defense it's very confusing because there is so many different pieces of advice you are getting on the board.


When one does encounter apparently conflicting or disparate views on these boards, I always found that it was helpful to 1) Look more closely for common threads/aspects or underlying themes 2) Where possible, compare a posters sitch with your own to see how similar or different they are and 3) Test the advice against the DB-ing principles.

As to actual differing advice on P's thread-- other than you posting that you think he ought to file for D right now, and me and joejoe saying that an actual D is not necessary, I am seeing a whole lot of commonality of advice here. And even your advice that he should D right now is not really out of line with the general sentiment on here, which is that he definitely needs to separate himself from her, detach, drop the rope, go dark, etc. The only difference is in how precisely we think that should be done, and i would posit there is not even that much difference. I haven't seen anyone on here who has said "fight against a D for all your worth"... in fact, I myself have said he should consult a lawyer to protect himself, and that he should not necessarily fight a D... just that I don't think that a D is necessary for him to set good boundaries and detach and gain his respect back... let her do the heavy work on that. And that goes doubly if he is at all thinking they might get back together at some point-- make her have to do the work and be the "bad guy" by filing and recognize some of the consequences of her actions. I think MWD and the DB books, as well as Sandi2 are consistent with that course of action. We all believe the same thing: He needs some kind of separation from her-- to drop the rope, detach, go dark, stop playing family with her, regain some respect and move on with his life. The D itself wont necessarily accomplish that in a vacuum--although it certainly could-- it is just a tool, a piece of paper, a possible means to an end we all advocate.

I think for those coming here for help, nearly every poster has something to offer on here if you look closely enough. The differing perspectives are one of the things that actually makes it interesting and valuable-- but, at the end of the day, I think most of the folks on here have pretty much the same views on the fundamentals: Detach, drop the rope, don't take any disrespect, 180, GAL, work on yourself, be strong, be the "lighthouse" (for your kids, and, if you entertain the goal of reconciliation somewhere down the road, for your spouse).

We're all pulling for you, P

I understand what everyone is saying. I am working on going in that direction. I constantly slip up but I also have stood up for myself. I have walked away from conversations. Last night at dinner I politely told her that I didn't care of her opinion of one of my friends and to please not interrupt me while I am telling my son a story when I was trying to make a point to him. (She interrupted and was rude in talking about him) It just takes time but I am slowly getting there. Heck my best friend has been frustrated and disappointed with me also because I have given her all the power. Its going to take time. I think I need to write down every action that I will not tolerate and read them every morning.
For Ex:
I will not text back.
I will not allow her in the MBR
I will not allow her to talk about her day. etc............

Last edited by phnix; 01/10/20 03:53 PM.
Re: "Walking out of the Valley" 2.0 [Re: phnix] #2879907
01/10/20 04:18 PM
01/10/20 04:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,079
San Antonio, Texas
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joejoe1 Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,079
San Antonio, Texas
P,

[/quote] I will not allow her to talk about her day. etc............ [/quote]

ALLOW HER!!!! Listening to her talk about her day isn't a bad thing, it's a great moment to validate her feelings. But what you don't tolerate is her telling you about OM and their R. Her placing blame on you.

If you and her are in the kitchen together and she says, "Guess what happen today, I slipped and fell and hurt my butt" you can listen to that. You can validate that. "Oh, I sorry to hear you fell down, are you ok?". If she says, "Sandra said Mary was talking about Betsy, and she said Betsy eat paint". You can listen to that. But, if she says, " My day has been horrible, people are talking about me, and the OM". Cut bait and walk away. If she says, "I was having a hard day, the OM hasn't called me all day". Cut bait and walk away.

If she says, "I wish things were better in our M, if you would of did". In this scenario you can do one of two things IMO. You can validate, by saying, "I can see how you feel that way, but it takes two for the downfall of a M". If she gets defensive, you can say, "I respect the way you feel, and you need to respect the way I feel". If she continues with the blame. Cut bait and walk away. OR, you can just walk away when the blaming start.

I like the first option, because, It places a small nugget in her head, and shows her you are willing to stand up for yourself and not accept all the fault.

Joejoe


M:36 W:35
T:9 M:8
S15, S11, S8, S3
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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