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Hi - this is my first post. I could use some advice. Here's my story, as brief as I can make it . . .

H: 46 (me)
W: 43
D: 11
S: 8
S: 4

Married 21 years, together 22 years. Fundamental issue that brought us to this point was my infidelity. Still legally married but total marriage breakdown about 6 months ago, now sleeping in separate rooms; zero intimacy; zero conversation that doesn't involve the kids; civil (mostly, but much better than when we were fighting over the past 2 years); we co-parent, still eat meals together, take the kids to church together, go to kids activities together. But there is zero "relationship" between us right now.

I'd also like to say up front that I know that I bear most of the blame for where things are right now. I've failed in many ways, and I know I hurt her while I was in the midst of my own mid-life crisis. I don't intend to make excuses for my failings, but I think some context will help convey the situation. But for the sake of the complete story, I will try to offer a balanced explanation of the things that led us here.

We married relatively early in life. I've always supported us financially, including paying for her to finish her college education. I worked full-time and went to school at night to better my education and earning potential; in the time we've been together, she's worked as a freelancer for maybe 2-3 years in between the time she finished university and before our first child was born. Since then, she's been a stay-at-home mom, and a very good one. For years, I worked a very stressful and demanding job but was fortunate enough to make pretty good money doing so. Money is probably part of what drove us into marital crisis, so that's why I mentioned it.

Like most young couples, we had dreams of our future together. We lived modestly but in an expensive urban area, but we bought an old cottage in the country and talked about moving there and raising a family in a simple life once we were able to financially; we spent vacations and time there renovating it etc.

Over time, the stress of my job, my long commute (3 hours per day), and my concern and stress about providing for the future really messed me up. We both come from decent but lower-class families, with no financial support; so I felt the pressure of it all being on me. I was stuck in a job that required me to work late nights, weekends, and deal with unpleasant people; making good money but lacking job security as well. I tried, and tried, and tried to find another job, literally applying to hundreds of jobs over about an 8 year period, but nothing worked out. She was (is) a great homemaker and mother, and she started to really like her role at home like that. But I felt myself growing frustrated and bitter day by day. We had paid off our litte home in the country and had enough to live on for a good while and I suggested we just go, but she didn't want to. She liked our nice wealthy town and our lifestyle and friends, and her mind had changed and she thought moving out to the country would take away opportunities for the kids. I wanted out of the daily grind I felt I was living, but I felt stuck. I felt panic. I felt tired. I felt bitter. And I was hitting "middle age" and felt for the first time my own impending mortality.

Then I did the dumbest thing I ever did and got involved with another woman. I understand now that it was really an escape from my own stress and mental anguish. I got emotionally attached to her, too, which only made it worse. It was mostly emotional, in fact -- we lived quite a distance apart, but there was physical infidelity as well.

My affair came out about 2 years ago. I had finally found a new job, making less than half of what I made before -- JUST ENOUGH for us to live on (still in an expensive area) but far less than most of our friends and neighbors. The hours were better, but a new job always comes with some stress before you settle in, and the adjustment to the much lower income was hard to make. But most stressful of all was my own inner shame at what I was doing carrying on the affair. I still loved my wife, but also felt love for this other woman (who wanted me to run away with her) but I knew what I was doing was so wrong, and I loathed myself for not living the life of a good man. My wife finally sensed something was wrong, asked me directly what was going on, and I broke down and confessed the affair to her. That was about 2 years ago.

I admitted to my wife that I was emotionally attached to the other woman, loved her even, but that I was confused and also wracked with guilt. Looking back, I see that I was in a co-dependent relationship with the other woman. I told my wife I needed time, time to think things through. I never was cold or uncaring toward her, and we continued to be intimate, but it was extremely hurtful to her and I was being selfish. But breaking it off with the other woman was difficult to do --- mostly because of the guilt and unhealthy co-dependency that I had let her develop toward me. The other woman lived quite a distance away, so I rarely saw her during this time, but even just talking to her was continued infidelity. I felt bad, but I was trying to sort out my feelings, disconnect emotionally from the other woman, and get myself straight in the head.

This dragged on for months, while my wife was trying to hold our marriage together. But then, in the midst of that, I discovered that my wife had also been unfaithful, with two different men --- not 100% consummated, but not nothing either. One of them was her good "friend" from high school who she had been in touch with since I knew her --- they were always very close, and he and I never got along; supposedly that was "just kissing," plus the emotional connection they always had (which I then saw as an emotional infidelity beyond just being "friends"). The other one was some guy I never met, some random guy from the gym or wherever -- "just oral sex" and "just one time." Supposedly everything ended when we had kids a decade ago.

I was livid. It was very hypocritical of me, but I was very angry. Yelling, cursing, took off my wedding ring. I felt betrayed, of course, just as she must have. But after confessing my infidelity to her and walking around as "the bad one" for months, and then finding out that she seemingly had no problem cheating on me and hiding it from me for years. To her it was ancient history but for me it felt like it could have been yesterday.

Eventually, about 6 months after it came out, I ended communication with the other woman, although by that time my wife had also taken her wedding ring off. We were still trying to make it work, but there was a lot of hurt and anger and jealousy seething under the surface for both of us.

My wife suggested counseling, but I was distrustful of counseling, thinking that they were geared toward divorce, so I refused to go.

For the next year that set us on a path of a slow, downward spiral in our marriage. We would erupt into fights over seemingly nothing. She was hurt, I was hurt. I suppose what I did was worse -- the emotion affair I had really had me struggling with whether to end our marriage and go with the other woman, and I even talked with my wife about that, and I know that hurt. But I never decided or told her I was going to get a divorce. Certainly what I did was more recent in time. But I also felt so hurt, looking back questioning everything. I never like that "friend" of hers, as he always seemed to be competing with me --- he even got up to give a little toast at our wedding. So that bothered me. And even the idea of a random, physical, one-time kind of affair with some guy I never met (the other one) felt so hard to deal with --- I think sexual jealousy is hardwired into men for biological reasons (unlike a woman, for most of evolutionary history a man could never be sure that "his kid" was his, so a healthy dose of jealousy was probably an positive trait for a male from an evolutionary standpoint). And yes, I even tested my children to convince myself they were mine -- that's how distrustful I became.

Cut to 6 months ago, about a year since I had last communicated with the other woman; she texted me asking for some life advice and I responded, even though I had told my wife I would not communicate with her anymore. I told my wife about it that same day. But that's when she snapped. She changed, and has never been the same since. She said she was "done." She didn't want me to touch her. sWe started fighting again. It was like a switch was flipped and she was disgusted with me; it didn't help that she started following the other woman on social media and just wouldn't let it go.

After a couple months, she said she wanted a divorce. I did all the stupid things, mostly out of guilt because I knew the marriage collapse was triggered by my affair, and that the final straw was my responding to the other woman after a year without contact. But because I had genuinely gotten over that affair, and genuinely wanted to repair our marriage and make a fresh start, and genuinely believed that we could, I was desperate to try to hold onto our marriage at that point. I felt like we were falling apart for the stupidest reason, after all the serious things we'd been through and managed to survive -- one text conversation that I honestly and voluntarily told my wife about was the straw that broke the camel's back. I cried, begged, pleaded, etc. Basically all the mistakes you could make. It just pushed her farther away. I cancelled the joint credit cards -- ostensibly because that's actually pretty common advice when you're told your spouse is leaving you (protect your finances etc.) but deep down I was trying to make her see all the "good" things that came with being married to me (in this case, my financial support). That just made her more angry with me.

I asked her to go to counseling with me, and she agreed -- like she was doing me a favor, though. We went to 5 or 6 sessions. But it became clear, and she explicitly said in the counseling sessions in response to the counselor's questions, that she wasn't really interested in trying to repair the marriage. She had the "I'm done" attitude even at counseling, and it became a weekly session for her to talk to the counselor about all the bad things about me --- like she was just trying to firm up her resolve and argue her case to "convince" the counselor that I was a bad husband and she was right to leave. Although I conducted myself very calmly, I got tired of it (especially the added expense to sit there and listen to this) and we just agreed to end it. I said I'd be willing to go to counseling if we both want to try to repair the marriage, but if she didn't want to try there was no point and she wasn't doing me any favors by going. That was about 3 months ago and we haven't been back since.

Eventually, we had another conversation about divorce. She proposed her getting the house and me getting the retirement accounts, and custody of the kids, but I said no, I don't want this, but if you want to do it I am going to ask for 50/50 split, and 50/50 custody. I was calm, but took the "I don't want this, so if you want it, you'll have to do it yourself" approach. Probably only because she realized that she wouldn't get to keep the same lifestyle in this nice house in this nice neighborhood, she hasn't filed for divorce yet. But she still keeps me at arms length. I moved into the spare bedroom because we'd even start fighting if I put my arm around her in my sleep at night.

And that's where we've been for about the past 6 months, emotionally separated, sleeping in separate bedrooms (about 4 months); zero intimacy; zero conversation that doesn't involve the kids; civil (mostly, but much better than when we were fighting over the past 2 years); we co-parent, still eat meals together, take the kids to church together, go to kids activities together. But there is zero "relationship" between us right now. All the while our children know things are bad but they are hoping that mom and dad stay together.

I get the "let go" thing. I'm struggling with the "get a life" stuff. I want to have a life, but right now neither one of us has much of a life. She's home with the kids all day (she started a little side business from home that also keeps her busy and keeps her focus) but after they go to bed she goes into her room and shuts the door. I am away at work all day, and spend my nights in "my" room working, or watching movies, or reading. We have no life together outside of when the kids are awake. I want to have a life, though. I want to have a life with her, but I know that it would just push her away if I tried any more. I want to have a life, but I know whenever I'm out she probably thinks I'm off with another woman or doing something else wrong, and understandably she doesn't trust me at all. For example, some nights I stay at my work an hour or two late, there's a gym in the building that's free, and I work out. I will text her to tell her but once in a while she'll make a snide comment like "Yeah I figure you were going out after work" or some comment like that when I get home. I've just calmly responded that no, I'm at the gym, etc. I've just really been sidestepping conversation with her out of a desire to avoid argument because the kids have already heard too much of it.

If there's a shred of a chance that we can save our marriage, I want to, but I don't know whether "getting a life" is going to hurt or help. For sure, doing what we are doing now is extremely lonely and emotionally draining for me. I am willing to do what it takes to rebuild trust, but is that even what I'm doing if I just stay home for the sake of staying home, in a separate room, the two of us not talking, alone and lonely under the same roof? On the one hand, it seems clingy to do that, on the other hand, she seems to suspect I'm off doing something bad whenever I'm out on my own. All she would need to do is tell me that she wants our marriage to work out, she just can't deal with it right now, and doesn't trust me. That's all she'd need to say and I'd happily stay home, give her whatever space she needs, occupy myself at home, and let her slowly rebuild trust again. But I've gotten zero signs from her that she wants to make the marriage work, and the last time we talked about it (months ago), it was that she was "done" etc.

I don't know how to respond to social situations with her. I'm frankly depressed and tired of pretending we are a couple when it doesn't feel like we are. Just now, she's out at the grocery store while I'm home with the kids, and she texted me that some of our friends invited us over for dinner. It was sort of an informative statement, but implied as a question (i.e., do you want to go?). I want to go as a couple, but I'm mentally and emotionally exhausted from pretending to be a couple. Also, is this cake-eating? She gets to stay in our house, pretend she's still married, fit in socially with the married friends etc., but really have nothing to do with me? Or is this a step toward rebuilding our relationship? I don't know anymore. She just came home, she mentioned "did you get my message?"

Me: "About dinner? Yes"

Her: "What should I say?"

Me: "I don't know, what do you think?"

Her: "Anything is fine with me"

Me: "Anything is fine with me too"

Silence. Conversation stops, we go about our business separately.

I don't want to spend the next 10-15 years like this, and I'm sure she doesn't either. That means she's either decided to stay married, even if she can't actively try or even admit it to me, and there's a chance that we are slowly rebuilding; or she's still in the same frame of mind as before, and is just planning her exit. How am I supposed to react when I don't even know where we stand? I'm frankly afraid of starting another argument or screwing things up worse by asking to "talk about us" with her anymore, and that's also something I'm not supposed to do, if I understand the DB-theory correctly when dealing with a walk-away spouse.

So that's where I'm at. I'm sorry my story is so long, thank you to anyone who took the time to read it. I'm just really at my wits confused about the best steps I can take to try to save our marriage.

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I am posting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Read all of the homework as you just might find some "pearls of wisdom" to help you along the way.

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-65, D33,S32


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Rushton,

Welcome. Sounds like you have been lurking here for a while. Glad you posted. I hope you stick around. We could use your POV.

You have some obstacles to over come. I think you are in a better place to save the marriage than most. I say this because there are no active affairs going on and you are still in the house and no paper work happening.



Lets start with this:


Quote

she texted me that some of our friends invited us over for dinner. It was sort of an informative statement, but implied as a question (i.e., do you want to go?). I want to go as a couple,

Me: "About dinner? Yes"

Her: "What should I say?"

Me: "I don't know, what do you think?"

Her: "Anything is fine with me"

Me: "Anything is fine with me too"

Silence. Conversation stops, we go about our business separately.
I learned that the man needs to be decisive. This is attractive. The woman does not want to make all the decisions. She wants her man to make decisions.

W:"H, friends invited us over for dinner."
H:"Tell them we would love to join them."


Now, I would say.
"W,I thought about dinner with friends. Tell them we would love to go."


As far as busting the divorce, I believe all the tools should work for you. You have to regain trust. You have to deal with all your issues. change your behavior in positive ways. Interact with her in ways that get you out of "friend zone", ways that she will find attractive.

I always advise learning as much as you can about attraction and seduction. Know the difference.


One of the first things to do is STOP ARGUING. From this point forward, you listen and validate. It is her story. Validate her feelings. In your case, you need to use phases like this:

"I am sorry I hurt you. I wish I could change the past"
"I am so sorry I hurt you. I can't change the past"


I was inhaling 2-3 books a week during my sitch. Get to the book store and browse for forgiveness books, healing from infidelity...whatever subjects you would would like to improve in.





"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Thanks for your reply, Ready2Change.

I think I understand the point you're making about being decisive. For 20 years, I have been "the decider" in our marriage.

But I don't know if I've adequately conveyed the degree to which she is "shut off" to me emotionally. Of late, during our recent breakdown arguments, she bristled about me being "controlling," so I'm not sure if being my usual decisive self would help.

Also, to be honest, I didn't want to go and pretend. It's emotionally draining for me.

It's been incredibly difficult for me, emotionally, just getting through each day and each week, concentrating on my job while in this complete limbo.

I have no idea from one day to the next whether she is thinking to stay like this for the rest of our time together (and how long that will be -- another week? until the end of the school year? until her little side business takes off well enough or the youngest is in school and she finds a full time job and can figure out how to keep the upper-middle class lifestyle to which she's become accustomed? until she finds another man that can give her that?).

The last time I told her I loved her, about 6 weeks ago, was before I left for a business trip. While I was packing, she came into my room to ask what time my flight was the next day. I tried to hug her and she held me at arms length. I forget exactly what I said, but it was something about I miss her, or wanting to be with her, and she just said something like "I don't think so" ... I couldn't sleep that night and went into "her" room (our joint bedroom) and lay down next to her and put my arm around her. She just pulled away and said to give her space. I texted her "I love you" early in the morning when I left, and didn't receive any response.

Yes, yes -- I've since read the book and many posts here, and I know that was counterproductive. I was still chasing her, still trying to pull her, maybe only pushing her further away. But it hurt. Even in the worst of my affair and confusion, I never stopped loving her and never, except for short term angry arguments, stopped telling her that. She says she just doesn't believe me anymore, and I don't have the urge to say it anymore anyway.

But back to dinner tonight; we didn't go. I didn't want to go and pretend to be a happily married couple. All I need from her is a sign -- any sign, that she wants us to work out, that she wants our marriage to get better, and I'll do all the pretending I need. But it just feels to me that she's settled into a comfy little routine where we pretend we're married externally, she gets to live where she wants to live, she doesn't look like "the bad one" to the kids, but she otherwise wants nothing to do with me. She even seems to twist the knife unnecessarily at times, giving me perfunctory little "thank you" responses when I do something, like I'm the help (I can tell the difference between a sincere thank you, and a "thank you" like you'd say to someone you barely know who just did something nice for you, I get the latter).

If it weren't for the legal repercussions related to custody of the kids, I would have left the house already because the "in-house separation" stuff is too emotionally painful, and maybe that would be enough to let her miss me. But I can't do that for practical reasons. And she certainly won't leave. So if either one of us files for divorce, it will be under the conditions we're in now, living together while we sort it out.

Anyway, thanks for listening. It's been very lonely these past few months, as I try to "stay home" as much as possible to help her trust me (although she still doesn't trust me even the minimal times I work late or go to the gym after work) and so I basically have had no social life and feel stuck in limbo and alone.

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keep trying everyday until you've set on not trying anymore.

I will share with you a quote I've read here somewhere:

"Today is not that day that I quit

Maybe I will quit tomorrow, yet I will wait to see what tomorrow brings,

Then repeat that tomorrow"

Sorry I forget who's quote it is.


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I think you really goofed contacting the OW again. Why wouldn't she be blocked? I hope you've done that now. And delete her # too.

You need to show consistency if you want to turn this around but you'll need patience for that to happen.

I agree with R2C on decisiveness. Your indecision is due to you wanting your W to solidify your relationship. Not gonna happen. "Be the change you wish to see".

Learn the basics around here, set out a plan, and get consistent.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I think you really goofed contacting the OW again. Why wouldn't she be blocked? I hope you've done that now. And delete her # too.


Yeah, I was wrong to respond. Oddly enough, I had deleted her contact from my phone when we ended it, and at least on my iOS phone, you can't "block" a number that isn't in your call/message history UNLESS that number is also in your contact list. So, since I had cleared my phone log and message cache and didn't have anything to block, I just counted on her not contacting me as agree. That worked for almost a year, until it didn't.

In my defense, she was in touch with her OM (at least the one) for YEARS after their encounter, without me micromanaging her communications or crucifying her for it. The double standard does make me bristle so I try to not even think about it.

I appreciate the comments, but the message of DBing, and some of the points made here, does seem inconsistent.

She's said she's "done" with our marriage; she doesn't want to do anything social with me whenever I've asked (and she's gotten annoyed when I tried); she doesn't have any interest in talking to me at home unless it's about the kids; she doesn't want me touching her.

I don't want her to "solidify" my relationship --- I'm waiting for a shred of evidence that she has any interest in our relationship before I do any more counterproductive pulling/trying/deciding.

I don't get it. Aren't I supposed to be "letting her go" and GAL-ing and all the other things that were described in the book and in these posts?

She wasn't asking me to go out on a date with her or anything --- she was just relaying an invitation from friends, and asking me what I wanted to do, as if she would be doing me a favor by going. The last time I asked her to go out to see a movie or grab a bite, she got annoyed at me "trying" just like you'd expect from the DB theory here.

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Can't you block a number through our carrier? Change your number? There's got to be a way to show a sincere effort.

Quote

In my defense, she was in touch with her OM (at least the one) for YEARS after their encounter, without me micromanaging her communications or crucifying her for it. The double standard does make me bristle so I try to not even think about it.


Not to be argumentative, but her contacting her OM is only something horrible that she did. Everyone has to keep their side of the street clean. You understand the double standard though as I saw you posted how much it bothered you when you found out about her affairs.

Quote
I appreciate the comments, but the message of DBing, and some of the points made here, does seem inconsistent.


What parts?

Quote
I don't want her to "solidify" my relationship --- I'm waiting for a shred of evidence that she has any interest in our relationship before I do any more counterproductive pulling/trying/deciding.
That's what I meant by solidify. You waiting for her to show you something in order to decide where to go. You want her to say something like "why don't we go to the Smith's house together?" You want a baby step, some progress, right? Maybe she's doing that too. So when she asks about going to the Smith's just respond.

This is why detaching is encouraged, because it should be a relatively simple response, but our emotions cloud our minds. It's totally understandable too, but in order to grow and hopefully save your marriage you need to consider that this is a way to improve things. I think she is confused. She's sure about not wanting to have long or serious discussions with you, she's serious about not wanting your physical touch. But if she was serious about leaving you'd have papers and she wouldn't be discussing going to friend's with you. So "letting her go" in your case, at this time, means to detach. You should be GAL'ing.

Quote

She wasn't asking me to go out on a date with her or anything --- she was just relaying an invitation from friends, and asking me what I wanted to do, as if she would be doing me a favor by going. The last time I asked her to go out to see a movie or grab a bite, she got annoyed at me "trying" just like you'd expect from the DB theory here.

I feel your pain. In her mind, she doesn't want to touch or talk to you, right? OK, I can see why she might feel that way, given all that y'all have been through. You should try to understand it to. She stuck around for a while, then you contacted the OW again and she is under the impression that this is how it is going to be with you. So her going to friend's house and showing face with you does say something to her, you, and other people. It says "we are still a couple".

Your story is familiar. We have people here who are trying to save their marriages, who are hurting badly, and some have gone and jumped in bed with a stranger too. It's not right, but it does happen.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by Rushton
In my defense, she was in touch with her OM (at least the one) for YEARS after their encounter, without me micromanaging her communications or crucifying her for it. The double standard does make me bristle so I try to not even think about it.
You either forgive her for her past behavior or you don't. Which one do you think will give you a better chance of turning things around?


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She wasn't asking me to go out on a date with her or anything --- she was just relaying an invitation from friends, and asking me what I wanted to do, as if she would be doing me a favor by going.
Do you want to go or do you not want to go. Make a decision and do that. If W wants to go she goes. If not, she doesn't.

Keep it simple.

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The last time I asked her to go out to see a movie or grab a bite, she got annoyed at me "trying" just like you'd expect from the DB theory here.
We advise not to initiate. We advise to be open to invites, but not to accept all.

I always tell posters to change their measuring stick. Do not use her emotional response as a measuring stick.

Measure this way: Did I do the right thing? Did I change my behavior in a positive way. Did I handle that sitch better. Did I control my anger?

This is a big onion to peel. You can't change her. You can only change the way you interact.

Ultimately it will take two people to save the relationship. Both people need time and space and make significant changes to themselves. You can focus on your personal growth or you can stay the same. Again, which do you think has better odds of turning things around?






"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Rushton Offline OP
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I appreciate the responses, everyone. And, although I don't mind receiving argumentative posts (I really don't mind) I wasn't intentionally trying to be argumentative. I'm just really confused.

To be clear, the number of the OW is now blocked. I was just explaining why I hadn't blocked it before -- I wasn't expecting to hear from her nearly a year after we'd ended things. And I immediately told my wife about it -- I wasn't trying to hide it.

Do I forgive my wife for her infidelity and related mistakes? Yes, I do. I want to forget about it and move past it and work on our marriage. But like any other human endeavor, my forgiveness is imperfect. When I'm repeatedly subjected to insults or accusations from her about my infidelity and mistakes over and over and over again, I feel myself get angry and upset about what feels like unfair criticism.

Even the issue of my responding to the OW fits the above double-standard. I know for a fact that she's been in touch with one of the OM at least up until she told me about the infidelity. So that means that, assuming the facts she told me are true (it was one time thing, etc.), she was in touch with him for years after that. I wasn't aware or involved; I didn't get to police her communications; she got to let things play out over years and assuming (as she said) that she tried to put more distance between her and the OM, she got to do so at her pace, in private. I respond to the OW's text one time and immediately tell my wife about it and suddenly that's it -- I'm the most terrible person on Earth and she's "done" with me etc.

I'm just griping, sorry.

I still don't get the whole "let her go" and GAL thing and how to balance that with the "stay home and show her you can be trusted thing."

As I said, my wife makes accusatory comments even when I do something mundane like workout for 90 minutes at the gym after work on a Wednesday night. Attempts to delve into a serious conversation about trust always end in bitter arguments, so I try not to respond, or just respond minimally (e.g. "No, I was at the gym, like I said")

Should I keep growing my own life (GAL?) despite her mistrust or should l just sit in my room while she sits in her room, so she knows I'm not out there doing something bad? I'm so confused. I've already done all the begging, pleading, apologizing etc. (all the wrong things, according to DB) -- I'm not sure that me just hanging around the house is going to make her want me again. It just seems like she's "cake-eating" as I've seen the phase used around here --- she gets all the benefits of a provider husband and father, but she can just go into her room and close the door after the kids are in bed and forget about me. She's been like this for 6 months, this isn't some sudden thing that I'm just freaking out about.

What I've been doing (basically being home every night/weekend and just retreating to "my" room while she retreats to "her" room every night) doesn't feel like it's working to change anything --- we are still exactly where we were 3 months ago. We fight less, because we don't talk one-on-one at all. It's gotten to the point where I'm actually afraid to even start a conversation with her because I feel it will only lead to fighting --- it's like she looks for any opportunity to argue with me, like she's carrying this all around and just looking for any opportunity to vent it on me.

Well, even typing this out makes me feel a little better, and hearing your reactions and thoughts about all this is really helpful. Thanks for listening.

Oh -- one more thing. She got mad the last time I tried to give her something (flowers, another mistake per DB!) back like 3 months ago. Christmas is upon us and I haven't gotten her anything. I am afraid of it causing an argument, and I have no idea what to do. Didn't I read "no gifts" when you're in this position? Is there something that's less "gifty" that I can still give without upsetting her and making her think I'm trying to pull her back? I've never felt such dread toward Christmas before . . .

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