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kml Offline
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If heís feeling generous, strike while the iron is hot - they only get less generous as time goes on.

As for dropping the rope - do you understand what that means? In a tug of war, you pull on the rope, he pulls harder. You drop the rope, he falls over.

Picture this: he comes home and you look mopey and sad and havenít done anything interesting. Is this likely to make him attracted to you? No.

Imagine a different scenario: he comes home and finds a couples empty used wine glasses on the back porch and an empty wine bottle in the kitchen . You also have sexy new lingerie drying in the bathroom. Maybe an empty Victoriaís Secret bag in the trash. Or a new hair color/ cut. If he asks, you just had a visit from a ďfriendĒ. If he pushes, tell him itís nobody he knows.

Mind you, Iím not suggesting you date or do anything he could hold against you later. But it doesnít hurt to let him think whatís good for the gander might also be good for the goose. Oddly, they never think about that possibility at first. Curiosity about what you might be doing while heís gone might switch his attention from all the fun heís having, to worrying about all the fun YOU might be having. Sometimes thatís enough to snap them out of the fog.

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kml Offline
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And btw you need to tell someone, a best friend or sister.

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PLC Offline OP
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Than you kml,

I will consider who to talk to. This is very hard for me and I am overwhelmed from last weeks BD.

Thank for the description of dropping the rope. I honestly pictured, hanging in the air and loosing my grip and falling into the unknown. Tug of war seems less violent.

I can tell that he is with OW 2. At least I know.

I should finish the finances today as that is the deadline I gave myself. Question, I understand striking while the iron is hot. I truly believe that this current BD was precipitated by the fact he figured how to visit her. This is what he did 15 months ago when he did the first bomb drop, but if I go to him and tell him what the state of finances are and what I need to continue this lifestyle, wouldn't that be stopping standing for my marriage?

Thanks,

PLC

Last edited by PLC; 08/04/20 05:01 PM. Reason: spelling error
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that would be taking care of yourself financially regardless of what happens with your marriage.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
H moved out 4/24/15
D Final 12/23/16

You have no idea what people are going thru in their personal lives. Be nice. It's that simple.
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Originally Posted by PLC
but if I go to him and tell him what the state of finances are and what I need to continue this lifestyle, wouldn't that be stopping standing for my marriage?


I will start by saying that I am not caught up on your entire situation. But, I felt I could weigh in on this. It absolutely does NOT have anything to do with standing for your marriage. If you know anything about my sitch, I speak from personal experience. I stood for my marriage for two years. I negotiated a financial agreement and retained an attorney even though it was never in my heart to file for divorce. I stood the entire time. Standing is your personal beliefs, and living your life a certain way. The finances are purely a business transaction, so you and any kids are taken care of. Dig deep to keep them separate.

Good luck on your journey.

Grace


M: 56
H: 57
S: 22
D: 20

H Moved out: 10/1/18
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DnJ Offline
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Hello PLC

I agree with the others, standing is separate from the business of this situation.

I found myself legally separated and with full custody of my kids, 2 months after BD. My stand didnít end.

Standing is about you and your beliefs. The business side is just that - business. Keep them isolated.

These situations are so counterintuitive; weird to find oneís self within it. H is on a journey and you werenít invited along. His path is about him. Your financial needs are about you and the family. And your choice on standing is another facet to this situation.

Originally Posted by PLC
...wouldn't that be stopping standing for my marriage?

In time you will find, you stand for you not your marriage.

D


Now: Me54 XW50 S24 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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PLC Offline OP
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Thank you for your responses. I am confused.

I spoke with my therapist, who has been along for the ride. We were discussing the finances that I figured out and how I was going to approach.

We discussed how before he kept everything private by only telling me he did not want to be married 15 months ago to last week telling my daughter 25 and then me he wants a divorce, how now it is more definite vs keeping it from everyone last year.

I am angry, I am hurt and I am bewildered why when someone tells you that you were a great wife and mother that they get to bomb the relationship into a million pieces and say, "I don't want to be enemies" Well I do. (not really) but, my IC has known me for many years and she suggested I let him see me mad, hurt or sad. This to me is opposite of DB, but I understand her point, as I have been reserved, non confrontational and letting H dictate how this is going.

H is supposed to come home from a trist tomorrow then leave for 10 days to go on vacation with his uncle and dad. IC suggested, when he is back from the long vacation, say, (I have phrased in the points I wold like to say) " I have worked out the money situation, what I would need in order to keep the house and live in it. I want to show you our finances so you can see where we stand and we can see what needs to be done to get to this point."
" I also want to ask why after 30 years of being together, and me being a good wife and mom, (Your words) would you think it is a great idea to blow up our marriage. I know that you say you are not happy, but in what way? I know that we have not had intimate relations in long time, but that does not mean it cannot happen again. We both were guilty of not wanting S-X. I have spent the last 28 years being your wife, your best friend and mother to your only child. We have made this house a home, so I wonder why you want to blow it up?"

DB friends, I realize if he thinks he is leaving, this would be last ditch, but I do want him to know that I am angry and sad and hurt. Can I do this without looking like I am pursuing him?

Any suggestions on what to say that is advantageous to a non divorce?

PLC

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Hello PLC

I do understand your confusion. You are angry, sad, upset, etc; and yet you are following DB principles. Itís a tough road. (((Hugs)))

First, your marriage is dead. Before this you were not in an open relationship. You married and vowed to be monogamous, both of you. That is what you expected. Hís tryst(s) are not what you signed up for. Showing him how angry, hurt, and mad you are will not wake him up. Showing him how angry, hurt, and mad you are will not progress you toward your goals. Which, by the way, are much more than reconciliation. You walk this tough road for you! It also gives you your best chance at a reconciliation, further down the road. (Think years). Your relationship might be rebuilt. If so, it will be a new and better relationship.

If you donít want to be divorced than donít divorce.


Second, the business side of things is business. If you donít want to be divorced than donít. If you need financial protection/security then separate if permissible where you live, or divorce. This is a need not a want.

Separation or divorce will have little detrimental affect upon a reconciliation. In fact, most evidence points towards it being helpful. Your H needs to feel that he has lost you. That you arenít sitting around being plan B. This is not manipulating his path; oh no, you donít want that responsibility. The business side is also about you and your needs. Look at this sans emotions.

If you need financial protection, then get it.


Third, H is confused. He is ruled by emotions and running from pain that will remain buried no longer. His attention span is that of a gnat. Seriously, anything more than one or two sentences will just become noise to him. And that is probably being generous - from my experiences. And for those few items that do get in his head, they flit away pretty fast as well.

Keep conversation short and simple. Explaining and trying to reason with him will not work. He is ruled by his emotions and those change all the time.


Forth, if you dump upon him your anger, hurt, and sadness; try to make him see; he will run. He cannot handle his own emotions, never mind yourís or anyone elseís.

H will expend enormous energies in maintaining his fantasy. He has too. Anyone who gets in his way will be mowed down. Any arguing with him is just justification to him for his leaving. Anything, really, can be turned into Hís justification; he is in crisis, he is irrational.

He will bait you. Attempting you to bite and attack. Oh, the MLCers are masters at taunting and manipulating. Anything you say will be taken the worse possible way or just be taken completely out of context.

Remain cordial and roommate-like. Leave him to his path. You focus on you.


Fifth, when this is all over, which ever way it goes, youíll want no or few regrets. Blowing up at H will feel good for a brief time - very brief. Stick to the high road.


Originally Posted by PLC
DB friends, I realize if he thinks he is leaving, this would be last ditch, but I do want him to know that I am angry and sad and hurt. Can I do this without looking like I am pursuing him?

Any suggestions on what to say that is advantageous to a non divorce?

The above, is your best chance. You may end up divorced, you may not. You may reconcile, or you might not. No one can predict the future. However, I guarantee you can become better. You can become healed.

That path feels wrong, I know. It will be counterintuitive until it isnít.

Do not say anything relationship-wise to H. He will bolt. Let him go. You cannot stop him. His is in an irrational mid life crisis.

H knows how you feel. He really does. But, he cannot handle it. He runs, and hides, and blames, and justifies, in a futile attempt to make you the ďbad guyĒ to try to live with his shame and guilt. Oh, the stuff they will justify for their new life is truly mind-boggling.

H is now an alien. Focus on you. Find your beliefs. Examine them. Strengthen those you want and alter or discard those you donít. You have the gift of time, use it well.

Let go of your fears. Let go of H.

Be cordial and kind, like a roommate. No cake eating.

Enforce rock solid boundaries for disrespectful behaviour from H. This is you controlling what you do, not getting H to change. It is for your health and welfare.

Get your life in order. Financially, physically, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually.

All of that is the most advantageous way to a non-divorce or reconciliation or new R outcome. A healthy healed person is very attractive. Be and live the woman only a fool would leave. It then becomes up to H to either remain the fool or decide to change.

Remember, you are the most important person in this equation. The really ďbigĒ reason for all this - is YOU!

D


Now: Me54 XW50 S24 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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PLC Offline OP
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Thank you DnJ,

I need to think of him as a roommate. I had been doing that, pandemic hit, was nice in asking if he was going to be joining me for dinner, or other little requests. He was always responsive, especially until our D25 left from her three month spring break here at the end of June. I noticed within a few days, his mood changed and he became very distant.

I had discovered the newer OW before this, so I chalked it up to their "relationship"

In the last few weeks, he has left town again, (as you know, no need for me to bring it all up again). So Friday, when he left for his "guys getaway" I knew he was heading to some OW or in search of a new OW. He told me he would be home today, and he was on the doorstep at 8:00am.

I figured he would be gone again after i left for work, but he said he is leaving for a vacation with his dad and uncle not until Friday or Saturday. UGH

I of course, want him to be here, but to be the old H. I have gotten used to being on my own and especially with his non interaction, it is better when he is either gone or locked in the room.

I am going to present the numbers, when his vacation is over. I read what you wrote, and I only NEED financial security if we divorced. Right now, it is status quo with me receiving the paycheck and paying bills.

I wanted to ask your opinion, ( I am sure you'll say don't wonder about him, take care of you,) but I would like to know what you think.

H did not post on any social media while gone, understandable as he lied about his whereabouts. I noticed newly discovered OW changed her profile picture to one of her in a very obvious hotel room. It even looks like his suitcase is in the frame. He did not like or comment on this at all. Even now, nothing. With OW 1 he would comment how much he loved her (like a little kid), even this new one had an "I love you" in the beginning.

When he came home last year after being gone three + months, he was Mr. Happy, he was in love and was certain where his future would be. This time, he seemed really introverted and not friendly really at all. He is not a jerk, but has no time for anything.

Am I wrong to think that this weekend possibly did not go as planned? I know that does not mean he wants me if it didn't, but with a WW, did you ever notice mood changes that you had no hand in? Sometimes I can think of what outside interference is bothering him, like his job, but this is definitley not me.

Anyway, I hate to say it, but when his mood changes like this, I realize Fantasy land may not be so perfect and I like that.

PLC

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Good Morning PLC

Originally Posted by PLC
I am going to present the numbers, when his vacation is over. I read what you wrote, and I only NEED financial security if we divorced. Right now, it is status quo with me receiving the paycheck and paying bills.

I am glad you have the financial amounts figured out. Why are you presenting them to H? What are you looking to achieve for you?

As you say, right now itís status quo, and your posts make it sound like itís working.

Gather information and keep it to yourself. Especially if you are not currently proposing a separation. Anything you give him, particularly in writing, can and will be used against you later. Those numbers, in a few months, could have a low estimate or not have taken in some infrequent expenses, but H will hold hard to that paperwork. People in emotional turmoil do tend to bring forth all kinds of legal threats and mumbo jumbo. Itís best to just steer clear of that minefield.

If a future negotiation, dissolvement of your partnership (remain business-like, less emotion), weíre to take place you present your facts then. Until then, keep your information to yourself. Do not share with the other side. You may never need too. And if the need suddenly comes up, you are prepared.

If all is status quo and you have no misgivings, maybe donít rock the boat. I believe that fits in with your present desires and outlook regarding marriage and divorce. Just be ready in case.

Originally Posted by PLC
Am I wrong to think that this weekend possibly did not go as planned? I know that does not mean he wants me if it didn't, but with a WW, did you ever notice mood changes that you had no hand in? Sometimes I can think of what outside interference is bothering him, like his job, but this is definitley not me.

When my XW first left with OM, she flaunted it all over town. On social media (until our divorce and when I blocked her, 18 months after BD) OM had never been photographed or specifically mentioned. XW still had wedding pictures, anniversary pictures, but removed me as her husband and didnít enter anyone as in a relationship with her. XW told me itís because OM likes to be private.

Itís hard to say what these MLCers are thinking. I suspect Hís weekend may not have gone as planned. What that means, who knows? His journey is all about him. The OW isnít really even along for the ride; she is just a band aid, which will be ripped off once itís purpose is fulfilled.

Yes, there are plenty of mode changes in H that you have no hand in. Friends tend to distance themselves from the MLCer. Only enablers provide what the crisis person is after; and everyone else gets treated rather poorly. Friendships donít work that way, and inevitable the MLCer progresses toward a lonelier and lonelier existence. They might have people/enablers around them, but they are lonely inside.

His mood swings, the silence on social media, and so on, is pretty common. These people are in depression and pull inward, emotionally shutting out the world.

Originally Posted by PLC
Anyway, I hate to say it, but when his mood changes like this, I realize Fantasy land may not be so perfect and I like that.

smile

Itís ok to like that!

Fantasy land is not perfect. H is still suffering, his running into fantasy has done nothing to remedy his torment. He has added to it, and just put off facing it. Of course he is too emotionally immature to see that. When his day of reckoning comes, he will have heaped on much more than he started with.

It takes a certain amount of understanding to let go. I believe you are walking a fine path my friend. Continue moving forward. Continue considering what you see and the advice you receive.

D


Now: Me54 XW50 S24 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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