SamCal - I haven't read your whole sitch, just the last few posts and I can see you're getting good advice from the others here. But I do have some insight into the dog situation.
We have a dog. A beautiful cockapoo that my H and the kids wanted when we moved into our dream house. I wasn't totally thrilled because my H is away a lot and the kids were little. On some level, it was just one more thing for me to have to look after. But I agreed anyway and tbh, our dog is adorable. After he left whenever he came round he would make a big fuss over her then look at me and say "have you been feeding her/walking her". It made me feel awful - like I was a none person. An inconvenient babysitter / dog sitter.
But animals are easy. They never demand anything. There is no pressure. It wasn't the he loved our dog more than me. It wasn't that he missed our dog more than me. It was just that dogs don't apply pressure or make them feel guilty. Dogs just love. You see, my H wasn't ready to leave 'us' just yet, and by us, I mean the whole kit and caboodle - the house, the kids, the family, the dog, the Sunday roasts, the late night cups of tea - but he wasn't sure he wanted to come back. So, by showing our dog affection, he could have that without getting my hopes up. The dog provides him with comfort without asking for anything. Watch a child cuddling a teddy when they are feeling confused/sad/threatened. That is your H with your dog.
What do you do? That's really up to you. Like children, family pets are not pawns.
Ovr - He does not want the same things out of MC - he says he wants to go for 'closure' and for us to grow as people. Which, I can do on my own in IC. I do think he listens, and the last MC was in my eyes pretty productive in that he was impressed with what I talked about and what he said helped me have a deeper understanding of what's going on.
I do still love him, but am tired of feeling like I have no control over stuff happening in my life. I know I need to reframe this being patient as control/choice.
AS - it is definitely hard for me to accept, because when we do hang out, he expresses having fun and wanting to hang out more, and then doesn't. Thursday he waited at the house specifically for me to get home so we could ride together somewhere (his idea). I know he is confused/doesn't know what he wants, and it's hard to not read in to stuff. That is a good idea re: notifications. I am concerned that the house key/moving stuff is seen as being impatient or manipulative.
When I ask him about doing something, and he gives a non-answer, I always say if it's a 'no' it's OK and just let me know, and I always get the answer of "that's not it." But, it effectively IS a no because nothing happens, except in this case it gives me hope that it isn't and that he is considering it. He's done that with bday stuff, date stuff, and essentially this entire separation as well. I understand the first step to being less frustrated with this is to not ask/bring it up. He has my number/knows where I live if he wants to see me and hang out. He expresses 'wanting to be friends,' but then ignores me on basic stuff.
FS - I love having the dogs. One of the dogs was his before M, and the other we got as a wedding present, and they are attached to each other. Since H stays with his mom when he's in town, he could keep them, but he knows I miss them (and that they miss me). He has been overly considerate about the dogs (making sure it isn't an imposition on me or that I'm not too busy to watch them), and I think seeing that versus how uncaring he acts about everything else is what makes it hard for me. When H is out of town, he has the dogs. It's just a weird shift - H is supposed to deploy next year, so I'd be watching the dogs alone for months anyhow. I don't think he uses the dogs as any kind of excuse to contact me - I think he feels bad for taking my family away. I think he does miss our life - I suspect that's why he read all of my birthday cards on the fridge.
How patient should I be? Part of me wants to ask for the house key back, since he doesn't live nor stay here, and also want him to move the rest of his stuff out if he's so done.
I agree with AS.
If I was in your shoes, I would send him a text. "When do you plan to have the rest of your things out of my house?" Another poster asked not to "sugar coat things". No sugar : "H, I would like your things out of my house. Would you prefer to take care of it this weekend or next?"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Small update - Xmas party was last night. I was exhausted so only went for 45 mins. H knew I was going, as I'd sent him an email earlier in the day about some dog stuff and ended it with 'See you at the party tonight?'
H came up to me first at the party, was genuinely excited to see me, nice/sweet. We talked for a while about just social stuff. When we separated and talked to others, I did catch him sitting alone looking at me in a cute way. When I went to leave, I said bye to him, and he said have a good night/be safe etc and went to give me a one armed hug. I reached up and gave him a 2 armed hug (he is a foot taller than I am) and laughed and said "let me love you!" which made him laugh, and he tried to hide that he was laughing. That said, one of the first things he said last night was that he is going back to his place (4 hrs away) either this afternoon or tomorrow. He's been in town for a week, and stays with his mom, so I get it, but was kinda sad - we have MC today and I was hoping we could hang out afterwards, but who knows. We will see.
I do have some intel I shouldn't - he had drinks w/ a mutual friend on Tuesday. He isn't doing very well, having a depressive episode. Was in bed depressed all day the Sunday of my birthday, which is why he hadn't realized it was my birthday until way later that day. Friend said H expressed being way more open to working on stuff now - but we will see what he says in MC today. Friend said everything I have prepped for today's MC sounds like everything he needs to hear (I'd gone over what I was gonna say earlier in the week). Most of our friends don't know full details of what's going on, but this friend does, and is a good emotional person for H to talk to. I am cautiously optimistic for today, and hoping he is coming with an open mind, and I can do the same.
I know I am not supposed to care wtf H does at a party, but I am not there yet.
-H is upset that I talked to a cousin about Christmas party - only told cousin the same story he tells people, which is he moved for work and we are going through some stuff. H's mom has taken that as a green light to tell everyone details, but I am getting blamed for that. I'd talked to cousin around Thanksgiving, and he must have just found out. I understand why he's mad, but it resulted in me officially being told I am not going. He hadn't told people in his family - which I didn't know, given how involved his mom has been (she also talks). He said his family can be catty. MC said to set boundaries with them. I later said I am not scared to be around them.
-I went ahead and said what I had to say - we can't file until April, why not try? We have fun, and he is using old info to continue at this impasse. I had said more about some mistakes I made (not enough words of affirmation in marriage), and how my actions didn't align with my feelings, and that's why I feel optimistic about fixing my parts.
-He said he has a ton of fun when we are out (then named several reasons why which was flattering) but that it's been a relief to not come home to me - bc that was stressful and negative. I validated, and said that there are a lot of steps in between us getting a beer and him coming home, and made that very clear. I said I would want to take things one step at a time. I said I don't want him to jump straight into the pool - I want to go toe by toe, and he can get out of the pool at any time.
-H said he has been sad, had a hard time, had a depressive episode a week and a half ago.
-H genuinely listens and absorbs when we go, so seemed overall less negative towards the end.
-We are not going to MC any more, unless we get to a point where we need it. Since we are still at impasse, it's pointless. H said if we end up going on a few dates, we can make another appt.
We then came to "my" house for him to get the dogs, and we talked further. This talk was shorter, but a lot more productive?:
-H took my printed out 'steps' or things it would take to R to read.
- I said it's too painful to continue to interact so much about the dogs, so I am not going to watch them anymore. This hurts, because I love them, but I think it's for the best for now. He validated/understood.
-I said I'd booked a camping trip for NYE and he's invited if he wants to go - I am gonna go anyhow, and didn't want him to feel he can't. I doubt he will, and that's actually OK with me.
-I finally had the courage to ask if he is 100% done. He said he "thinks so." I asked do you think so or are you? And he said he didn't know. I said that is OK to say.
-I asked: how would he like to handle things going forward? I got a surprising answer. He said he isn't opposed to getting beers, and that he has block leave for the holidays and will be in town starting next Wednesday or Thursday. I made zero reaction to this. He then went on to say that I will hear for him and he will definitely reach out and schedule it (since he had done a bad job at this before and I said it was hurtful in MC).
I feel better that we do not have a next 'scheduled' reason to see each other, and that anything logistics or appointment related is now off of the table - no saving stuff for counseling, no dog interactions, which are all pleasant. Do I think he will schedule something? I don't know, and am going to take things one step at a time and quit stressing about the future for now. I can go more N/C now, which will hurt less - less opportunity for rejection, less stress about will he/won't he, etc. He is going to his place and doing nothing over the weekend, so I know has time to think. On the way out, I can tell he was waiting to see if I would hug him, and I did not. He said thank you for telling him all of the things I did in counseling today.
I know this distance will be good for me. I have a lot of GAL things planned (as I have been), so I am not sitting around all lonely and stuff. I am fortunately to have an amazing set of great friends. I am allowing myself to feel awful and shitty tonight, and then tabling that. He has still not remotely acknowledged that this has been hard for me, and I need to come to terms that he probably never will. My copy of DR finally came in the other day, so I was able to read it.
HI SamCal, Just to let you know i'm following your story and am heartened by your stance and steps you are taking. It appears to me that as you create distance and detachment he finds a reason to keep a dialogue of sorts going. I think when he has time to think to himself reality will bite. What i'm discovering with this forum, is that there are lots of us going through our own personal pain but having an outlet to share and be supported is amazing and to know that we can diarise our turmoils with guidance from those who have trodden similar paths gives me much cause for optimism in my personal growth. Hang in there, you are doing great
Thanks Chaz - I don't know how intentional he is about stuff, and am trying to not think about it.
I do feel better today and yesterday. For as crap as I felt after seeing him, I did realize that, at the end of all of that day, the last interaction that we had, there was an appearance of progress: him saying he's open to hanging out, owning his crappy communication/follow through on that, and saying both of these things in response to a very broad quasi unrelated question. Before, I'd bring up hanging out, and get some blow-off excuses non-answer. This time, he brought it up, seemed clear and sincere. But, those are just words - we will see what actually happens. Trying to let go of any expectations.
Nothing really new to report - feeling pretty angry yesterday and today, as H has been paid, but not yet paid me what he owes me for the phone bill and also I got a notice that he hasn't paid the internet bill since leaving, which was the only bill in his name. I am so disappointed in how he's acted with all of this - I understand he is having a hard time, too, but he can't even keep the statements he makes of his own accord. He said last week multiple times he would pay me yesterday. I don't want to contact him about it anymore or again. We haven't had any contact since Sunday (Sunday he texted about something I was picking up from his coworker that was prearranged before). At this point, if he does contact me to hang out like he said he would, I don't think I want to see him. I spent yesterday evening reading Love Must be Tough.
Updating/journaling regardless of this thread not being wildly popular (I think in part b/c I don't comment on others', but I don't feel I am in a place to give advice to anyone about this stuff):
-H did finally pay me Friday afternoon. -H was in town Friday for his work's xmas party. I saw he came into the house and got the dog food I had ordered (he left before it came in last week) and a bunch of suits. I immediately panicked and felt awful. I did find out later the suits were impromptu and for another coworker. He didn't take anything else. He hasn't told me the past 3 times that he's been in the house (but I'd seen it on the camera).
He and I have never discussed boundaries/him coming to the house when I am not here. I'd mentioned in MC offhand "why have a key if you do not live or stay here?" I ordered new deadbolts that come today. It's been 2 months since BD/incident so he at this point has legally abandoned all of his stuff and had opportunities to get the rest, but I've not said anything. I feel anything I say or do is just used as ammo against me. The locks I feel OK about because since he wasn't telling me he was coming in, I think it's a reasonable reaction to coming home to stuff missing. There's no point in telling him, since again he doesn't live nor stay here.
I chose to stay here in the house for Xmas and not go to my parent's house. I used to work retail so holidays alone aren't abnormal for me. I've ordered a lot of puzzles to do (my fave).
That said, I feel so down and disappointed. I know I shouldn't expect stuff, but he was so sincere about contacting me to hang out in response 'what to do going forward' question. As of today, it's been an entire month since we hung out together on purpose (after counseling at a brewery for several hours). It's been the longest NC thus far (a week). I do wonder if he thinks it's odd that I didn't text him anything about stuff being missing from the house, or that I didn't thank him for paying me for his phone.
I do genuinely think there is no OW, since this BD was a direct result of something that I did to him. Deep down, I do believe he doesn't know what he wants, and is keeping me on the hook. He's made no movement to continue to move on or work on us. His boss had spoken to him about not leaving people in limbo about stuff, and was speaking about how H had a bunch of stuff in H's office (and implying stuff with me), and apparently that did prompt H to get his items out of the office some time last week.
Last week's MC did show me how angry he still is, and how he has just spent the past 2 months running from his feelings and not doing anything. I am trying to be loving and patient, but this situation is painful for me, and he cannot see or acknowledge that. I am committed to doing nothing, even though some days I want to just say gtfo. I've kept my word on not asking to do stuff anymore, and am giving him maximum space. I don't want to be the one who calls it quits - at least not now, anyhow. He is very good at playing the victim, and I don't want to give him another chance to do so. In my heart, I do believe he thinks he will want to come back at a later time. When our mutual friend had drinks with him 1.5 weeks ago, mutual friend mentioned how many times H used the phrase 'if we get back together,' which he had not used to anyone before. I don't think H realizes that the longer he takes, the less there is to come back to. There's no way to directly articulate 'hey you are losing me btw' without it sounding like an ultimatum, and IDK if my NC reads that way. I'm glad I didn't react to him on Friday, or break down and contact him to hang out yesterday, and hope I am able to stay the course the rest of the break. I took off Monday, so don't work again until Thursday. I am using this hermit time to my advantage, but will get out of the house some, too. Just needed to get this all out. I have IC tomorrow afternoon.
Glad to her you’re not struggling too much over the holidays, most LBS have a really tough time during the holidays so that’s a plus for you.
You are doing well not reaching out to him. No pressure, no pursuit. If he does reach out to hangout, make sure you are in good spirits with a PMA. He is struggling with his own issues now and things may not change until he looks inward and focuses on his own issues. Unfortunately you cannot influence his self reflection and he will hopefully work through it at some time.
You sound like you have a great handle on releasing control and leaving him alone which is great. Focus on yourself and continue changing your behaviors to be the best version of yourself you can. If he sees you happy and growing as a person, he may realize that you are not the cause of his unhappiness.
The comment about If we get back together is interesting. For most of us, when our S leaves, they are at that time DONE with us. I wouldn’t read into it too much because their thinking can be all over the place, but a part of him is considering a future with you. It sounds as if he is very confused but could be moving in the right direction. It’s up to you when to give up, but know if you stand, this will be a long process.
Continue to detach and focus on yourself. If he reaches out, great. If not, try to focus on yourself. Happy holidays
