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#2873833 11/29/19 01:56 PM
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Hi - newbie here. Novella:

Brief overview of situation:
W (me): 35
H: 27
Married 1 year, together 2 before that, so 3 total
no kids

This first year of marriage has been stressful. I got a new job the month before we were married (09/18) that I knew would be high stress for a year (fun though), we got a new dog (11/18), and built a new house/moved into it (08/19).

I was previously married ages 26-29, D initiated by me because he was an abusive alcoholic. I gave him many chances to turn it around, went to counseling even when I was mostly done, but ultimately, nothing changed so I'd had enough. D filed 07/13. H has no previous marriage.

In the past year, I haven't been dealing with my stress well. Stress eating, becoming obsessed with cleaning new house (for an easy "win" at feeling accomplished/successful), being too tired and feeling bad about my weight gain to want to have sex. H has ADHD that is finally under control, and is generally a sensitive guy. He would say he felt I was condescending to him, and I wouldn't know how to fix this because it was a tone of voice thing that I couldn't hear, and I ultimately didn't feel superior to him so wasn't sure how to fix it. H is thoughtful, sweet, but sometimes would get frustrated because he would put a lot of pressure on trying to make me happy - I am a pretty independent spouse, and we have talked about how he doesn't need to pressure himself for that (especially if I wasn't unhappy to begin with).

H has been in IC since August 19. Originally said he was going for work reasons (stressed), and I believed him based on some of the convos we had. H struggles with ADHD & self esteem. Around 7/19 he finally found a medication that helps with his ADHD (after having tried several).

At the beginning of Sept, he took off a week because he was so stressed at work and didn't want to deal. A work situation that would have meant we would be apart for 9 months was possible at this time, and he asked to not go on it so he could stay with me and the new house and work on that (end of Sept 19).

Biggest arguments would be about chores - I am a neat freak, he isn't. Also, communication issues. He would forget to tell me details, leading to fights.

BD:
10/24 - have minor fight in the morning, escalates quickly. I am frustrated that he isn't listening to me (I had felt unappreciated about some stuff and let it stew overnight and shouldn't have), he is trying to de-escalate and leave for work. I run up to him and push him physically to get him to stop trying to leave. He says he thinks this means we are over, but isn't sure. We both go to work, no resolution.

He stays at his mom's house for the night, messages me the following day that he doesn't want to come back because he is unhappy and is now scared to talk to me about it because of my reaction. He says he has been unhappy for a long time, and that he needs to work on himself.

In the past, I have a few other physical things that have happened: I pushed him one other time, threw a makeup compact at him, threw a coaster at him, and in the middle of a mental breakdown I spit on him once. None of these incidents have occurred in the past year. When this has happened, he says no more or he will leave me, but we never have a deeper convo about it. I think that I handle it, but apparently had not.

From 10/24 - 11/9 he stays at his mom's. On 10/26 he comes to the house to discuss things in person. I take full responsibility for my parts: I have been needing to get IC, haven't wanted to own up to my personal stress and feelings and so was avoiding IC, taking out a lot of things on him. I start IC 10/28. We have 2 dogs: one is his before we were married, and one we got together. The new one is very emotionally attached to the old one. He takes the dogs, says he doesn't trust me to not keep them from him (never would or remotely threatened or intimated anything like this). On Halloween, I see him at our running group (where we met). We are civil, and agree that we do not want to talk about relationship stuff. At the end of the night, he has been drinking and decides he does want to talk and then proceeds to talk to me for an hour. I mostly listen and validate. I had been previously VERY bad at validating. This is where he tells me that he is 90% certain he does not want to get back together.

11/3/ish - first session of MC. He says he will go to MC but doesn't want to reconcile, only wants to go for closure and so we can grow as people. This session goes poorly. He tells me a list of why he doesn't want to work things out (nothing new, same stuff as above). I start crying, MC tells us we need to leave b/c there's no point in being there. H gets mad that she says this while I am upset. H and I stand outside and talk for an hour. I am not begging, just continuing to validate, support him, and own my parts. No blaming, or anything like that. He is upset, but listens.

11/7 H goes to mutual friend for drinks - has a good long talk with him, mutual friend talks to me a ton about it. (important later)

11/8 We see a different MC and it goes much better. We both felt heard, but he still maintains he thinks he is done. MC asks if he were 100% sure I would never push him again, would he want to get back together. H replies, many times, he cannot imagine that. We get dinner afterwards. H thinks we will be friends if we D - I say I don't think I could forgive him for leaving instead of trying to work on stuff/stay with me while I get the IC help I needed. MC asks if we would go on a date. I say yes, H gives run around answer.

11/9 - he moves 4 hours away for work. He takes some stuff from the house, and the dogs. I open up to him while he is at the house about some stuff from IC, and how I was struggling with it because it's painful, but helping. He listens actively, is supportive, but then seems kind of manic about getting what he needs from the house. I ask about the date and ask if he is just scared to tell me no - he said that isn't it. He says he isn't opposed to a date, but isn't ready.

11/22 - 2nd MC session with good guy. I had many things to talk about regarding identifying my behaviors that made him feel talked down to, disrespected, etc. I can tell he appreciates the thought that went into this. He reveals that he felt codependent on me, needs to feel he can make himself happy, and is dealing with some resentment related to the codependency/trying to make me happy. MC pushes H too much on reconciling, in my opinion, and I back up H and say that reconciling would take a while for me, too and be done in small steps. Afterwards, H says he feels it was good for both of us and that we are learning, but he means this in a closure type way. We decide to get beers afterwards (I had to ensure to say it wasn't a date). We go have beers for 3 hours, have a ton of fun. He says he wants to be able to get wild with me but has to drive early in the morning for work. For 2.5 of these hours, we do not discuss any M stuff at all. The last 30, he starts to. It goes mostly well. He says he is careful to not speak in absolutes because he is still 95% sure he does not want to reconcile, and that he is very careful because he doesn't want to give me false hope or lead me on. I say thank you, and that I don't want to give him false hope either because we are out having fun now, but if we do get a divorce, that would not continue. Says he isn't ready for any relationship, even with me. He makes a sex joke, I tell him I would and want to have sex, but he says he isn't comfortable with that. He tries to give me a hall pass to sleep with my friend. I am offended and say I do not want to do that. We have talked many times about remaining faithful during separation, and we both take it seriously. There is no OW. Night still ends well, I can tell he thinks I am cute b/c I am tipsy. Neither of us get upset or tense.

11/25 - I am upset because he is supposed to pick the dogs up from our house, but has had ZERO communication about this. I pack the dogs stuff up, and go to work. Come home to a note about how he has traded in his car (he had been talking about this for months) and had some papers for me to sign (I was on the old loan as a cosigner). I don't understand some of the papers, and am now dreading calling him since I felt it was obvious he was avoiding me. I call him, he is excited to talk to me, is at the dealership, says he will ask re papers and call me when he is on the interstate going back to his house 4 hours away. He calls me back, tells me all about the car, and randomly says that it has a different suspension than his old car, so I won't get carsick in this one like I did in the other. I let this slide, but think it's strange - when am I even gonna be in this car? I can tell he actually wants to talk more, but I get off the phone (nicely).

He had to work Thanksgiving, I came to my parents' house. I debate about texting him (we don't really text anymore), but decide I wanted to and said I was thankful for how strong and loving he is - had zero expectations and didn't think I'd get a reply. He eventually texts back Happy Thanksgiving! and that he hoped I had a good day. I reply and make a joke about how I didn't and how I should have just stayed home alone. He tells me a little more about his day. Briefly, regular friendly convo.

In the past week, he has definitely warmed up to me more, but not in a romantic/intimate way. He does pull back after our interactions - mutual friend said that was predictable based on their talk and him not wanting to 'lead me on.' Mutual friend does think it'll feel like 2 steps forward 1.5 steps back for a while, but also knows how H is wired (impulsive), and that H has isolated himself in a boring town with no friends, so thinks it may be faster than I believe. H has started to post things on social media that are 'look I am doing just fine' type things (food pics, etc) and mutual friend believes this is to convince himself, not others.

My bday is Sunday, and I was thinking he wouldn't text me, but now I do not know. Last year he arranged an amazing surprise party with all of my friends, so I have been dreading this years, but booked myself a fancy stay at a far away location for just me.

He still has a ton of things at the house. He is only supposed to be where he's at for a few months. He has signed a lease, bought some cheap furniture for up there. He says he will still go to MC since he will be in town every few weeks, and his IC is here also.

We don't argue when we see each other. I do not bring up any M stuff. We only talk if there are logistics involved.

I have been torn on NC b/c I have made it clear that I want to respect his wish for space, support his decisions, understand where he is coming from, but also that I want to work it out. Since we do not have kids, and he is so far away, I do want to wait for him to initiate contact, especially to hang out/non logistics type thing. I know he is bored. H is a total people pleasure by nature, and is now taking the time to work on himself, but has done a 180 on this and is now being super narcissistic. I do not think this phase will last (I think it's already wearing off a fair amount). H and I were emotionally very close, and I know he misses that. H did say in MC this last time that if he were to try to reconcile with me now, he knows he would be ultra critical of my every move, and that isn't fair to either of us.

I am GALing - seeing friends, running again, doing IC, handling the issues that affected our marriage so much. It still hurts, and I miss him, and I know it hasn't been very long. I told him he is welcome to stay in our house when he is in town for work instead of staying at his moms, but I do not know if he ever will. I've ordered the DR book, read many threads and resources here. Not sure how to proceed. H is supposed to deploy (friendly) in June for 9 months. I do not think he would file anything before then (more $ to be had), and our state requires 6 months separation before filing. When this first happened, he admitted he knows a lot can change in 6 months. What else should I be doing? It's so recent, and I do not want to give up, but this is painful. I've been through much worse with XH, though. I do not think H has ever had an actual issue in a relationship so just ran away.

SamCal #2873834 11/29/19 01:57 PM
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
SamCal #2873847 11/29/19 03:48 PM
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I am sorry you are going through this. I think you’re doing the right things. Just remember to detach yourself from any outcome and be prepared to find OW. I know you said there wasn’t, but it’s extremely rare for that to be the case. In my own situation, I was convinced there was nobody else—there was no secrecy, or signs, or anything. But two months into our separation, I called his bluff and H finally admitted to sleeping around. There was no specific OW, but he was still unfaithful.


BD: 9/8/19
Seperated: 9/13/19
SamCal #2873852 11/29/19 04:32 PM
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Thanks - if I do find OW, it's not a dealbreaker to me. He can actually lose his job for adultery (long story) so that may be a reason for him to not admit it. He has been accounted for when he was at home at all times/no phone secrecy/etc. I know his coworkers prodded him on it, too. Most of our friends are joint friends and would have said something. I do genuinely believe him, but I know you never know. While I was blind-sided by this decision, there was at least a catalyst reason, but I think we were about to have a long talk about some stuff regardless. H had a tendency to isolate himself. I can see his phone records (I haven't looked in a while but definitely combed through them when this first happened). He was still openly physically attracted to me, despite how I felt. I think he is now so focused on himself that there isn't room for anyone else - me included.

SamCal #2873911 11/29/19 11:45 PM
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My husband was the same—no secrecy, and all his time was accounted for. I believe he used Craigslist or a hookup app. He only admitted to a single hookup, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were others. In hindsight, I still have no idea how my H found the time. We had at least one mutual friend that knew what H did, and that guy said nothing to me.


BD: 9/8/19
Seperated: 9/13/19
LostRose #2873916 11/30/19 12:40 AM
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Fair - I am not super worried about it. If there was, there was. It doesn't change my willingness to work on stuff.

I had met him at a social group that I'd been going to for years, and he is an active member of that group now, too (we both have been for years). I found out today that the Christmas party is the day before our next counseling session. I am sure he will be there. We have attended this group since separating and it is normal/fine - we talk, and honestly, usually at this group we socialized separately anyhow so most people have no idea what's going on (my attendance has dwindled in the past year or 2). I am sure he will be at this party. I know I can go and be normal, and it gives me extra incentive to look nice. One of my GAL things has been taking better physical care of myself, whether he is around or not. This is still 2 weeks away, so I am interested in seeing how that goes/how he acts. This group is kind of lecherous, and I know I will be hit on. Not sure yet how to navigate this.

SamCal #2873971 11/30/19 07:23 PM
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I'd suggest taking a long, hard look at why you decided to hit him those times. Time for a major change there.

I wouldn't go full no contact. Just don't be the first to call or text and don't respond to all of his calls or texts. Don't expect a birthday message.

Prepare for the OW to appear, he told you to sleep around and most likely to feel better about something...

Don't believe anything he says and only half of what he does.

You'll have a hard time growing if you're focused on him so do your GAL and focus on you the most.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
SamCal #2873983 11/30/19 09:34 PM
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Hey SC, sorry to hear about your sitch. One thing to add to the above is that it sounds like he wants to be friends with you and, while that may seem to be better than being enemies (or nothing) it may limit your ability to R. What's the best way to get out of the "friend zone"? It's not by being a better friend. So, the non-date dates, hanging out, etc., - drop those. Do you have other people you can grab beers with? Go with them. You said that you are in a running club - run more, join a gym, take a cooking class.

Great job on not bringing up the relationship - drop the rope, take the pressure off, focus on yourself.

I'll echo the above comments re: violence - I misbehaved in a very different way in my relationship and it has taken over a year for me to figure out the real cause (or, at least, what I believe to be the cause). Remember: actions not words. You can say that you'll never do it again but, if he'd asked before the last time you did it you likely would have said the same thing. Work on the causes of this behavior - it will benefit you no matter the outcome.

Keep posting, we're here for you!


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
SamCal #2873988 11/30/19 10:14 PM
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Thanks. I definitely agree re: violence, which is why I started IC immediately and has been a large focus of my IC, and very, very hard. I am committed to IC for a long time, regardless of outcome with H. We have addressed some of my individual work in MC, as well. There are a lot of lasting effects from being married to someone abusive for a while (my XH from first marriage).

Re: friendship - I was initially worried about that, too. I have been explicit about not wanting to give him false hope that if this ends in D that we would be friends. I am not interested in being friends with someone who would just run away when I need help, instead of being there for me. (Note - I do not add that part in when I tell him that). I've made this comment more than once, and he says he knows friendship may not be realistic in that scenario. So, if I drop the non-date dates, then what? Do I draw a line in the sand and say I am only interested in date-dates if he tries to hang out and see me? We live very far apart, so there isn't a ton of opportunity. Our relationship grew out of being friends and being listened to. When we had beers last, he did make an overtly sexual comment/gesture that is something that he would not have done with a friend.

SamCal #2874136 12/02/19 03:14 AM
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Small update - I was excited most of the day about my birthday trip alone. Once I got to my room at my destination in the early evening, though, I started to feel so upset and sad that I hadnt received any text, and then I was upset at myself for even caring so much. Around this same time, he ended up texting me. It said "happy birthday - I hope you had a good day today, and I'm sorry that I didnt text you until now." I didnt want to tell too much, so I eventually just replied "thank you." A while later, he texted asking if I did anything fun today. I gave a one sentence answer of "took myself on a trip to [place]." I dont know why he says he was sorry he didnt text me, and am not going to even try to analyze that as it doesn't matter. If he wanted to know actual details about what I'm doing and how my day was, he can call or idk, come back into my life. I took myself to a fancy dinner and enjoyed the rest of my night calmly. I am looking forward to detaching, even though I think that'll be a long and difficult process. We dont have plans to see each other until the 11th & 12th, so I'm not expecting any communication in the interim, as there isnt any logistics stuff that I know of coming up.

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