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A Message from Michele
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Living in Limbo #2873281
11/25/19 05:51 PM
11/25/19 05:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
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phnix Offline OP
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2869247&page=12

"Vapo" I am going to read up on respect and boundaries. Robxs post has over 300 post. Can you guys be specific about what to look for in his post. I guess I will begin with his story.

Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2873287
11/25/19 06:09 PM
11/25/19 06:09 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,424
Missouruh
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ovrrnbw Offline
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Missouruh
I'm going to paint what is hopefully a clearer picture. I saw you in pain, bballer1, and see that you aren't throwing in the towel yet and you want to save this.

Your W sees this too, plus she sees your pursuit, your R talks, sees that you are around her still. I think she sees you as still on the hook. The OM is clearly still on the hook. She is thinking emotionally, not logically. Right now she has two worlds going on and is getting what she wants from both of those, regardless of who she hurts to get them. Your pain is stopping you from making clear, thoughtful decsions. That's why you need to detach.

I see it as a major positive that your W doesn't want to divorce as well as y'alls religious background and small town life. Now, it's time for her to see your back walking away from her and wonder if that is really what she wants. Your kids are old enough, I think you should not be home when she is. Don't put yourself in a position to have a convo with her about anything. I mean really, what do you NEED to talk to her about? Get out of the house in the evening too, let her wonder what you're up to. Be a man of action and quit being so wordy and needy with her. Quit rehashing all the BS she has put you through. Let her see this happen and her tune may change. Or maybe she realizes she wants a divorce after all. I don't think you can keep going the way you have been. Time for a change my friend!

Please think about updating your signature to reflect your sitch too!


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18

Married 3 years
Together 8 years

Working on the R and on me - Spring 19
Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2873289
11/25/19 06:12 PM
11/25/19 06:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,064
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hoosjim Offline
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bballer, my thoughts on your sitch, in DB-ing terms, is that you are clearly in "Last Resort Technique" territory, if not, "Beyond the Last Resort Technique." (Go back and review these parts of the DB books if you havent already)

Your W is still clearly wayward... very wayward. She is still in contact with OM, still "cake-eating", and still keeping you on the hook as "plan b". You need to go completely "dark" with her and completely "drop the rope" while at the same time putting some real effort into your own self-improvement and GAL... becoming AMOAFWL. Forget her for the time being... she is still embroiled in her affair and with her head in the clouds. You may not be able to legally force her out of the house, but you can sure as hell put her belongings out of the MBR, put a lock on that door, and, for the most part, act as if she doesn't exist except for strictly and minimally-necessary communications concerning child-rearing (and possibly finances, if it legitimately involves joint finances--- which you should be actively minimizing and closing out anyway as long as she is maintaining affair with OM and not moving towards work/reconcilliation on your MR).

You can also stop being her sounding board and shoulder to cry on. She got herself into this mess, and it is wildly disrespectful of you to try to discuss her relationship with OM and how hard things are on her because of that etc etc. You need to shut that crap down pronto (calmly, and confidently, but pronto) when she brings it up.

If she is intent on remaining in the house despite your cold shoulder (and you dont need to be and in fact shouldn't be openly hostile, here, even as you should be calmly stoic-- as if you dont care-- towards her) then that is her problem, but she should be on her own and you shouldn't' be doing anything to make her feel comfortable in the marital home or make her stay there easier. Maybe she sticks around and starts to feel the sting of loss, particularly if you GAL and self-improve like mad... but it is really hard to pull off a productive "in-house" separation. Much better off if she leaves, and, at some point, you really might have to put the house on the market if you decide you've had enough... but abandoning it to her and retreating is probably not a great idea.

overnbww:

Quote
I see it as a major positive that your W doesn't want to divorce as well as y'alls religious background and small town life. Now, it's time for her to see your back walking away from her and wonder if that is really what she wants. Your kids are old enough, I think you should not be home when she is. Don't put yourself in a position to have a convo with her about anything. I mean really, what do you NEED to talk to her about? Get out of the house in the evening too, let her wonder what you're up to. Be a man of action and quit being so wordy and needy with her. Quit rehashing all the BS she has put you through. Let her see this happen and her tune may change. Or maybe she realizes she wants a divorce after all. I don't think you can keep going the way you have been. Time for a change my friend!


This is all great advice from Overnbw. You can still remain "in" and "in control of" the house, while creating distance/separation. Get out... without letting her know where you are going. Do fun things, without telling her. Let her see you come back with a smile on your face, whistling to yourself... and if she asks where you've been, be vague, noncommital: "I was out". I agree with overnbww that there are faint, promising signs, there, somewhat similar to some of the dynamics that were at play in my own sitch, but you are not yet, nor even anywhere close, to where i was when things turned with my W. You need to create separation from her. You need to GAL for yourself... to make yourself feel better and get yourself in a better place. Try new things, meet new people, reconnect with friends... and get out away from the house, even go to the library if you have to (but don't tell her what you're doing), but for yourself and your own piece of mind. Do things to improve your appearance (we all have room to improve here). There needs to be some space created, so both of you can get right in your own heads, and also, ultimately, so she can feel the sting of loss (if she is in fact to feel it), which sting will only be all the more intense if you have truly (and not just to impress her) been doing a bang-up job of GAL and 180-ing and becoming the absolute best bballer you can be.

Last edited by hoosjim; 11/25/19 06:21 PM.

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2873299
11/25/19 06:29 PM
11/25/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,017
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AnotherStander Offline
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I typed this response in your last thread, when I tried to submit it it didn't go through because the thread had been locked. Ovr and Jim just echoed some of the same sentiments, but at the risk of being redundant here it is:

Originally Posted by bballer1
I simply said I would give her 2 weeks to find somewhere to live. Then I would move back into the house


But BB, this is still a completely ineffective boundary. You move back in 2 weeks... and there she is. Then what? Then you look impotent. It could be even worse than that, she could change the locks. Then you try to force yourself back in and she calls the police and explains that you voluntarily moved out and now you're trying to force yourself back in. I've seen it happen before! Look, she has zero respect for you. No woman who respects her husband would engage in an affair, much less parade it around in his face all the time. You can huff and puff and make demands and whatever but she will do NOTHING you ask. Why? Because you asked, and she is a wayward. She is like a rebellious teen, you tell her to do something then she will not do it even if it's what she WANTS, because her desire to rebel against you outweighs her desire to do what is right or even what she wants. What you are doing is akin to negotiating with a terrorist. You're following rules of decorum and respect that mean absolutely nothing to her. So what do you do? Well you have to make a hard choice. The way I see it there are really only two options:

1. You stay at home and accept status quo. This isn't a good option because you'll likely never get her respect back. She will continue to be wayward until she figures out a way to ride into the sunset with OM. Or things with OM will blow up and she'll pursue OM2, 3, 4, etc.

2. You tell her to leave or you will file for D yourself, and if she doesn't leave, then you file for D and force her out of the house (it sounds like you can afford to stay in it and she can't, so legally this shouldn't be tough to do). As painful as this sounds, this is an enforceable boundary and this will command respect.

Option 2 is quite clearly not the DB'ing approach Michele describes in her books. But option 2 gets you out of this mess, gets you some respect back, helps your W to learn to miss you and teaches your sons that sometimes being a man means standing up for yourself and not letting others treat you like a doormat, not even your own wife.

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We would be separating to get space and see what living apart would be like. Now that you say it like that I probably need to tell her only a week.


She is going to love being away from you at first, especially if she gets to stay in the family home. They always enjoy their new "single" life for a while. So if you're thinking separation will "teach her a lesson" then you're wrong.

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I'm sorry guys but I can't continue to live with this lie. Its been 5 months and everyday I see her it makes it just as hard to move on or let go. I think I need separation to heal or I may lose my sanity, harm the OM (seriously), or worse lose my job from lack of focus and being on top of things.


And then...

Quote
I guess I am going to just wait this thing out and hope for the best.


You're flipping around a lot. Take some time to decide what you want, and to figure out a game plan on how to get there. Keep in mind that staying put means continuing to live in this exact same situation indefinitely with little or no change.

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She gets emotional thinking about it but she is lost and not the same woman I first married. She stated last night that she was a bad person and didn't deserve anyone. I guess that was the guilt talking because she knows she is messaging him all day while at school.


Yes they do feel guilt over their actions but they still feel their actions are justified. They feel like a lack of love in the marriage "forced" them to do the things they do. It's not true of course, but that's how they justify what they're doing.

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She clearly stated today that she doesn’t want to stop talking to him.


Quit asking, quit discussing it with her, quit being her BFF. Even if you're going to live under the same roof this has got to stop. Please don't fall under the illusion that you can "Fireproof" her back, you can't. She's too far gone for that. Time and space is your only option at this point. You can't "nice" her back, you can't "mean" her back, you can't negotiate her back, and unfortunately you can't "pray" her back because she has the free will to do what she wants, even if it's evil. So even if you choose option 1 you've got to fully detach from her and treat her like a toxic roommate that you don't want to have anything to do with but are forced to cohabitate with for now.


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: Living in Limbo [Re: AnotherStander] #2873367
11/26/19 07:33 AM
11/26/19 07:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,182
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Vapo Offline
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Please listen to AS, and re-read his reply at least twice more. A lot of gold in his reply, a huge lot. You should consider yourself lucky to have him in your corner. Listen to his advice.

You are entering probably the hardest part of your journey, the initial shock is wearing off and the brunt of the situation is pressing down on you. You are desperately trying to find that silver bullet that one thing that will turn your situation around. You got to calm yourself down, embrace the hurt and start moving forward on your own. You got to better yourself, rebuild bballer1 into bballer at least 2.0.

The more time you spend wallowing in your own despair, the longer your journey will take...

Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2874212
12/02/19 05:32 PM
12/02/19 05:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 283
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phnix Offline OP
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Thanksgiving went well. I have been getting out and playing golf and spending a lot of time with my son. She has been distant and not really bothered with me being gone. She kind of likes it when I am not around. She claims it is the way it has always been with me being gone.

I am going to continue to detach and GAL. She claims she will give me a decision about the marriage in January so all I can do is work on myself and move forward until then. I would guess that when January rolls around she will not have a decision.

I suspect she is still communicating with the OM only because she acts suspicious some of the time. Like Friday night before we left the house she came out to check and see if we had actually left. I had to wait 10 minutes on my son to find his shoes under the carport. LOL! She made the statement about us not leaving right away and she had her laptop in her hand.

I know this will be a long journey and I am thankful for all the support I have on here.

Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2874231
12/02/19 07:14 PM
12/02/19 07:14 PM
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Posts: 1,064
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hoosjim Offline
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Quote
She claims she will give me a decision about the marriage in January so all I can do is work on myself and move forward until then. I would guess that when January rolls around she will not have a decision.


Amping up your GAL is a GREAT idea, but the above ^^^ is BS. She is either married to you or she isn't... and if she is "trying to decide" between you and another man, then she ISN'T (married, that is)... what she IS, is wayward, and she has rejected both you and marriage. A marriage is a relationship between two people, not three. I think one of your first boundaries has to be "I wont live in an open marriage" or "I wont share my wife with another man". How you enforce that boundary is up to you., but this keeping you on the hook until January while "she makes up her mind" is CRAP. C'mon man, take back your huevos... YOU should be setting the tone for this process, at least insofar as it concerns you and the family-- and when she is playing footsie, even if it is just virtual footsie, with OM, in your house, where your children live, it DEFINITELY concerns you.

So get out, GAL, be the best Bballer you can be, etc, and, of course, be "detached" but don't continue to take this kind of disrespectfulcrap from her. And waiting eagerly for her to pick you over OM while she continues to contact him, etc... is crap. You're not going to earn her respect that way and if you don't have her respect there is ZERO chance for your MR in the future.

Last edited by hoosjim; 12/02/19 07:16 PM.

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2874240
12/02/19 07:31 PM
12/02/19 07:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,056
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LH19 Online
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B,

I agree! Is she going to go on Maury Povich and reveal it and the audience goes crazy?

I’ll repeat my new mantra “ being a doormat doesn’t work, placating doesn’t work, showing strength doesn’t work but it gets respect”.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2874244
12/02/19 07:40 PM
12/02/19 07:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,086
San Antonio, Texas
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joejoe1 Offline
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BB,

I remember my W doing the same thing. She couldn't wait for me to leave the house. At first, I really think she enjoyed it, but every time I left, I left where I was going vague, and I left her seeing me smile, and I was dressed to impress and smelling good. She really acted like she couldn't care less at first. But one day she started asking where I was going and with who. And I would say, "I'm going to enjoy myself". And she would give some snide remark, "well I hope you do". I was never mean, rude, or nasty. I was confident in my answers.

I think from the time I started going out, by myself (GAL and Detaching) until she started asking questions was about a month (just giving me time for reference). One day I was searching about a year after recon, and I noticed my W was checking my number on online databases. She never told me, but while I was GAL she was wondering what I was doing. She was still talking to the OM at the time of her searches.

It takes time and patience. I could see the cracks starting to form, her wording started to change from, I'm done, too, I'm don't know what I want, too, using us and placing us both in activities together in the future. Before I started GAL and detach, she could see herself doing anything with me.

I also, remember I came home early one day and she wasn't ready, I walk upstairs and she was sitting on the couch with her laptop open, and it looked so strange. I checked it a few days later and she was on with the OM, she didn't erase her message, so basically told him, "oh he's here, I got to go".

Thru all that, I never gave him any energy in my life. I stop talking about him, I only started talking about me and my boys. I stop asking her. I was cool. I never asking open ended questions to her.

Instead of, "How was your morning?", I would say, just "good morning".
Same for, night time.

I would always start my comments off to her with what I wanted and needed and then ask if that collided with her plans or interrupted her day.

Example: I have plans this weekend on Saturday. Do you have plans on Saturday? If she said no. I would say, ok. If she said Yes, I would say what about Sunday?......

In Summary: I started to allow myself to love myself and respect myself, that allowed me to distance myself from my WW disrespectful behavior and actions. You have to be patient and understand that consistence is the key. It takes time and you WW has to feel/know she's losing you. It has to be real and not and act on your part, and put in the hardwork learn around here.

Onward and forward.


M:36 W:35
T:9 M:8
S15, S11, S8, S3
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Re: Living in Limbo [Re: phnix] #2874282
12/02/19 11:11 PM
12/02/19 11:11 PM
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Posts: 283
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phnix Offline OP
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Thanks "JJ" for some of your experience. I am slowly coming to grips and hoping to break this cycle I have been in for the past 4 months. Begging, needing an answer, demanding she stop talking to him, and many other attempts at spying etc..... One thing that is really hard to refuse for me is those chances to be intimate. We have been intimate atleast once a week in all of this and I know I have got to stop doing this with her.

In time I have realized that each day a part of me moves further away. I don't worry as much nor do I think about her all day. Having a wife that is considered a "trophy wife" has made this even more difficult on my self-esteem. I will grow from this and become a better person. Only way forward is upward.

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