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I should just let it go. I should shut my mouth and just walk away, yet i can't. I just can't let some of these false statements stand.

Originally Posted by JujuB
I love OLD.


Said no one ever... well until juju met her latest guy and is completely intoxicated in the land of new love. I mean, really, Juju, you are the very first and only person I've ever heard who loves OLD. If it's finally worked for you with this latest guy, that's great but before that... by your own admission, not so much.

Originally Posted by JujuB
At least with online dating you know that they are looking for some sort of meet up with the opposite sex.


Originally Posted by AndrewP
Further to what JuJuB has said, one of the key differences with OLD vs meeting organically is that there is no pussy-footing (or so I presume) about intentions. It's right there on your profile - "looking for a relationship" or "looking to date but nothing serious".


Again, this is simply NOT TRUE!!!! According to the Pew Research Center, "One-third of people who have used online dating have never actually gone on a date with someone they met on these sites." so let's start there - and Pew is no slacker outfit. We have seen on this very board how people put up OLD profiles and then decide it's too soon and never go on a date - or worse yet (for the other person) go on a date or two and then figure out they have made a big mistake and should not be online. I can tell you first hand one of the biggest complaints of OLD'rs is people who only seem to want a pen pal or to text with and make every excuse in the book to not ever meet. Then there are all the BOTs and scammers and cat fishers. Need I say more? If only everyone OLD were actually looking to meet someone - that would be awesome.

Originally Posted by JujuB
But your advice to Ginger is geared forwards getting a guy like you.


To start, I very much agree with you juju that there is nothing wrong with wanting an R - nothing at all, I totally agree. What I'm trying to say is how you go about trying to get it. I'm not trying to get Ginger or you to find a guy like me. What I'm saying is two-fold. First and foremost, I'm not coming up with these things on my own. I'm following the advice of New York Times best selling authors. I hold MWD in very high regard for what she has written in her books. Its the same with Sherry Argov and her best selling book. I didn't come up with or write this stuff - they did. I am only repeating what THEY have written. If you want to say they are wrong, go ahead but I strongly think you can only try to say they are wrong for you. In the case of Argov she interviewed thousands of men. Are all these men wrong too? Why would they lie to her? They actually told her the truth they very well may not tell their wives or GFs or other women. Ignore their advice and what these authors write at your own peril. I fully believe they have it correct in what they are saying and for sure Argov was told by thousands of guys what will win them over - and always being available, talking about LTR or M or children early on, accepting last minute dates, giving up hobbies, friends, and making him the center of your world much more often than not WILL NOT WORK.

As for me, I think the right woman could land me as well (after all it has happened many times before) - as avoidant as I am. I so totally need to spell this out on my own thread but my point is i don't 'think I'm as avoidant as perhaps I might have thought. It think it's just as much or even more the quality of women I've met and the neediness, clingyness of some of them. Wild Girl is one story but the woman formerly from AK was totally different. She'd be married yet today had her husband not died and was a very quality woman who didn't play games at all - at least from what I could tell in the year we long distance dated. Have you read the book Juju? You may well not agree but you might see the point I'm making much better. You can get enough of it free online to tell.

We are all a product of what we've done and our lives. Something has not worked for me so I tend to poo-poo it. Something seems to maybe finally have worked for you so now it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. And since one guy at least for now, continues to pursue and be all in with you, breaking these rules are working for you. I just hope that continues to be the case. There are no never's and no always in life. Anytime we say everyone or no one, we are most certainly wrong. There are exceptions to every rule. I'm just saying as a rule, OLD fails more than it works and as a rule, going against what MWD and Sherry Argov say in their books will result in a failed R.

Most of all, I want to keep things based in facts and in truths not in feelings, guesses and personal anecdote. I hope I'm not coming off too aggressive here - because I'm really not trying to be. I think you are a well spoken, thoughtful and educated lady JuJu. I just could not let a few of these comments stand unchallenged and want to try to keep things not to what you or I think but to statistics and research on what hundreds or thousands think and recommend. Plus I love a great debate. smile And I'm very good a disagreeing and still liking and being friends with the other person.


DonH
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Dang it, I wanted to put this in above. I'll quickly add it here - again from Pew Research - 2017

With opposite sex couples 11% met online while 88% met offline.
Same sex couples seem to do better with 37% meeting online and 63% meeting offline.

So evidently OLD does work for someone - just not hetros. For us, it's much closer to my 1 or 2 out of 10 stat from a few days ago. Clearly all sorts of factors go into these stats but 88% meeting offline is a landslide.


DonH
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Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
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Wow, some great perspectives over here! I want to speak to them all.

First, UR, I didn’t think you were bashing online dating. But I agree, trying something else if one thing isn’t working is to try something new. I’ve been taking this time in my dating hiatus to really really think about what I am willing to accept. I do know what I want. But I’ve been pretty loose on what I am willing to accept from someone else. M did teach me that I do not need to accept any less and wanting what I want is not wrong. In the end I played the game his way and I still lost.

I do feel like I’m working up a little bit. Exercise is definitely helping. Keeping busy is helping. I’m trying to trouble shoot my issues. Trying to take tiny steps to feel better. And I’m doing it outside of having a guy to spend tome with. I’m doing it myself. I’m proud of that.

Juju, you and I think a lot alike. Love very much the same too, and want the same out of relationships. I do not have to play those games, Don. I can’t. I can make myself less accommodating, but the push and the pull and feigning disinterest . Not my thing. I could not stand the push/pull game M was playing with me. I become quiet and he comes closer, after 6 months, that dance does not have to be done anymore. And that’s when the dance started with him. I should be able to ask my boyfriend to hang out. I should expect a decent portion of his free tome he is going to want to spend with me. That I don’t need to play The Who is going to ask who out first” game anymore. That’s kids stuff. I have dated guys who can be upfront and don’t need these games. Who like to give time and attention without a front. And believe it or not, I am a lot less than most women. I am not clingy and needy. I don’t “need” it. I want it. And the guy should want it too. I go out with my girls, I like my guy to go out with his guys. You have your hobbies and I have mine. But when all is taken care of, I don’t need to play games for the rest of your attention.

Online dating : Juju has admittedly had exceptional luck and hasn’t had to deal with what I have. So I’m not surprised she loves it. It worked very very well for her with minimal frogs . I can’t say I love it, but I can say I’m thankful for it, because without it and the lifestyle I live, I’d have much less of a chance. I happen to know many couples where it has been highly successful. Many who are married and those currently in LTR. I think generally have have just been pretty unlucky in love.

Honestly though, I have friends and know people where boy likes girl, girl likes boy and they date. No silly push pull games, no doing all this intensive inner work, they just kept it simple and it works out. It is just so complicated to meet someone and have a connection and nurture it. Man, I would love that.

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When I first signed on, someone pointed out how the statistics show that more women file for divorce. Which leads us to believe its women that are bailing on marriages. But no one accounted for the numerous amount of times they filed after hubby moved in with another woman. Point is statistics are skewed. Michelle wiener Davis books are great for normal marital issues but harmful for people in abusive situations - most of the people here whose spouses are actively having affairs. IIt would take a ton of peer reviewed literature for me to be convinced by some statistical figure posted.
And in relationships , there really is no formula.

Don - if you could go back in time, would you buy stocks in Match.com? I only wish I could, because it is just as good as sliced bread. I think a lot of people would too, as much as you discredit it.

I honestly love OLD. It was easy because I can’t date patients and so don’t have time as a single mom to go out and meet people. I had a lot of luck both times I was on it. Granted, the first relationship didn’t work after a year and a half, and I have no idea of the future with my current relationship. I can only hope. But OLD put me in a position where I had potential to actively meet men. Something that would be really hard for me because of my schedule. It would have taken me a long time just to find someone to go on a date with. With OLD, you can find that in a few days. So it makes the first steps easy. I get that, it’s probably better if you live in a highly populated area.

I think that you can be vulnerable with someone you like without being desperate or needy. I prefer to not initiate as I have learned that the guy values you more when they are the pursuers. But that’s just my experience. I tend to not be needy or clingy in general (My ex husband said that to gaslight) but I don’t play games either. Current boyfriend asked me early on to just spend every minute I had free for the entire weekend (not sleeping together or over). I could have played it cool and told him I had other plans and would just spend one night with him. But I really liked him and enjoyed being around him and wanted to get to know him - so no games. We spent the days together and just bonded. Had I played it cool or acted less available - he might not have felt as comfortable with me. I just went with instinct and took a risk and let myself be vulnerable (someone on my thread had recommended a ted talk about vulnerability)

That being said, I think to be successful you have to be able to recognize when the relationship is one sided. If someone’s not putting effort in- I’m not gonna pursue or make effort. I think that might be what the author is saying - but I haven’t read it. I’m naturally a bit b!tchy so I don’t need to.


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I do not have to play those games, Don. I can’t. I can make myself less accommodating, but the push and the pull and feigning disinterest . Not my thing. I could not stand the push/pull game M was playing with me. I become quiet and he comes closer, after 6 months, that dance does not have to be done anymore. And that’s when the dance started with him. I should be able to ask my boyfriend to hang out. I should expect a decent portion of his free tome he is going to want to spend with me. That I don’t need to play The Who is going to ask who out first” game anymore.


Girl I used to feel exactly this way, but honestly, the less I was needing or wanting a guy, the more interested he was in pursuing me. I still don't play games but I keep a little in reserve initially. I try not to rob the guy of the pleasure of pursuit.
I try to spend more time evaluating whether he's really someone who I could be interested in, rather than just responding to his interest, if you get what I mean.

Quote
I am not clingy and needy. I don’t “need” it. I want it. And the guy should want it too.


And I just want to comment here, that most of the guys you have dated have seemed to have unnaturally low sex drives for young men. Maybe it's different in this generation but come on - we were having a LOT MORE sex in the 70's and 80's than what these guys seem to be willing to go for. Heck, my 60 something boyfriend with stage 4 lung cancer has a much better sex drive than most of the guys you've dated. So next time maybe pick some guy who SHOWS you (instead of just says) that he is really interested in having sex with you, and maybe more than once every couple of weeks! You're young and you deserve that! Obviously sex is not enough to base a relationship on, but if you keep going out with these low drive guys (or at least guys who don't make time for it, or who are wasting all their juices on porn, who knows?) you're always going to feel like you're missing out because that intimacy is important to you.

(And I know everyone has a different drive, there's no right answer to how often a couple should have sex, but I can't remember a single guy you've dated who has matched your interest in frequency in that regard. And if I, as a woman in her sixties, is getting laid a lot more than a youngster like you, something's wrong!)

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The guys I’ve dated have had pretty decent sex drives. One had a little ED going on at first due to new meds for a fib and not having sex in 2 years.... but once he got his mojo back, he got his mojo back. M was all about it when we were together, but certainly wasn’t going out of his way for it and shamed me when I mentioned not having it as putting it. Most men would come get some instead tinker with their truck or have an 8pm bedtime. It’s a part of feeling desired for us woman. He stopped making me feel desired.

Tonight I was at a work event and I was talking to one of my divorced single coworkers and she met M because his mom was admitted to her floor. She said to me ( like everyone else does) “you guys seemed really happy” I feel embarrassed when someone says that. For one or the other reasons. Because I was dumped and I said how much I loved my boyfriend. Or because I put up a front making everyone think I was happy.. I feel like such a fool. Part of me really loved him, yet I wasn’t happy. But he was the one who dumped me. It’s so weird

Anyways, I came here to make a happy post. I feel good today today. I went back to work after 5 days off and I felt lighter. I straightened my hair today after my new haircut and everyone complimented me. Even my work crush should who is married. He came into rounds and said “ hey, ho woah there! Lookin’ good” he’s such a gem, I would snag him in to time if he wasn’t married. He married a woman with 3 kids and refers to all of them as his sons. They also had one together. He’s pretty amazing. Anyways, I just feel not as down.

One reason being is I reflect on my life and see hardship and sadness. Or I can reflect on it and see how much I have overcome against all odds. I’ve accomplished some amazing things. One being a pretty decent mom. And I’ve kept my sense of humor, my ability to engage with others, my ability to smile, to still love and give people the benefit of the doubt. I am pretty awesome. My failed relationships or lack of relationships don’t define who I am. I think I get sad I am single because I just have a lot of love to give. But I’ve accepted this is the status kn my life and I don’t want to give all the good stuff to someone who does t appreciated. So I’m ok. I’m ok with where I am.

My daughter has that bat mitzvah Saturday. Another friend I found out is hosting a sleepover the night before, they will all get ready and the mom would take them. I was sad. I’m losing a weekend night and day. Which is a big deal sometimes to the every other weekend parent. But this is what life is about for her now. I’m having a little bit of a difficult time dealing with it, but I’m happy to see her thrive and I’m happy to see her happy. So, me and her besties mom might do happy hour in town. She’s starting treatment on Monday, so we will toast to her kicking cancer’s butt.

So I’m ok. I only get super sad when I think of M’s son. But I’m accepting life as it is and I’m not quite so depressed. It’s getting better. Day by day. I thank you all for sticking through this with me

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The guys I’ve dated have had pretty decent sex drives.

Not really! Not one of them has been putting in the effort to get with you 2-3 times a week - and a young guy who's interested and has a decent drive SHOULD be feeling that way early in the relationship. At least he should be trying to talk you into meeting him for a quickie somewhere if your schedules are conflicting. None of them have been like that.

I'm not talking about the quality of the sex when you had it, but their desire being sufficiently high that they want to make every effort to get with you in bed as often as possible.

And mind you, I'm not sating everyone has the same drive. But you have YET to be with a guy who has wanted to have sex more often than you did. I think you'd be a lot happier with a guy who wanted it more.

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I'm not saying - correction

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Well, FF did. He spent all his free time with me. And we had lots of sex. But he was also 27 at the time. He’s the only one who went out of his way for me. Ex NG wanted me to visit all the time, but wouldn’t come to me. M literally lived 12 min away from me and didn’t see me nearly as much as he could.

But no, I haven’t been properly desired yet. Like mentally physically, the whole 9. M thought I was very physically attractive, he told me how attractive I was as a person.

But I can tell you, his words were so opposite from his actions, it was baffling

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I forgot to mention..... my exercise mojo has come back that has been gone for 2 years since I busted my knee. I am signed up for 2 times a week but I seriously want to go like everyday. I want to die in that hour, but I friggin love it. In the new year, I may upgrade my plan because I need more than 2 days a week. The endorphins are working

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