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I’ve told you this dozens of times but you ignore my advice repeatedly.

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Sever ties, let your D13 have her say, get her an attorney, fix this once and for all. Your ex needs to go.

The law does not allow this even if it is my wish as well as D13's. I have had a lawyer from the beginning of this and that is why I have custodial custody of D13 which means she is in my custody all but 52 days of the year. D13 is also in therapy to help her out with these problems and that is going well. It isn't as easy as not letting my ex see her. I run the risk of being held in contempt of court and even of losing custodial custody of D13. I am waiting to see what she sends my lawyer and will proceed to use all legal means of protecting D13. I am very thankful for your contributions kas and you have given me a better insight to who my ex is. Please keep following and contributing.

So I received this email from XW and at first it doesn't appear harmful at all.
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If staying the night is too difficult for D13 I'll drive her home each night and pick her up the following day for our upcoming weekend. Please let me know what the plans are.
Also once D13 finds out about her Award please let her know I'm so proud of her outstanding accomplishment and I would love to be there to support her special recognition. Please let me know if I may attend.

The problems I have with this are she wants me to tell her what the plans are for her weekend with D13 and is asking me permission to attend one of D13's events. After much reflection, this has been a huge problem in our relationship since we first got together 22 years ago. XW liked to ask me for permission to do things and if I answered yes I reinforced the fact she needed permission in the first place, if I answered no then I was emotionally abusive and controlling, and if I told her she didn't need my permission I wasn't the masculine leader in the family she was looking for. Now that she is trying to amend the divorce decree, accusing me of extreme distancing, and blocking her from D13's events, this email takes on a very manipulative feel. If I tell her what the plans are for her weekend, even if I say it is what D13 wants, then she accuses me of controlling her time with D13, but if I don't say anything then I am not communicating as a co-parent. The second part asking me for permission results in the same dilemma. I have told her over and over I don't control her time with D13 and she doesn't need my permission to attend any event of D13's. She rewords every email I send however to make it appear that everything being done is my decision. Especially when she brings D13 home early from her visit, I get an email after that I am causing extreme distancing.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 473
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Hey Roo

What does the legal agreement/order say about what the XW is on about (dont tell us though as it may be confidential)? If it's covered in the document, go with what's in there, and maybe say "Hi XW, thanks for asking. I think it's best if we just stick to our legal agreement. Will let D know of your well wishes - thank you. Regards, Roo".

On 2nd thoughts, Given the circumstances where she is taking it back to Court, I frankly feel this is something that should be corresponded between your respective L's, and I also agree with your feelings behind why the email was sent. This sidelines you having to get involved and removes the dilemma of how you would respond. YOur L can advise you about the legal agreement, and what are your options in responding.

Do that through your L, and be done with it mate.

Last edited by DS9; 01/14/20 05:12 AM.

Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 239
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Here was my response to her last email:

XW,

As always, the organization, coordination, and fulfillment of your visitation weekend plans with D13 are between you and her. I do not influence how or what you do during that time. This is not my role. I will, of course, have D13 ready at the agreed upon pickup time. Please communicate or have D13 let me know if you and D13 agree to any changes to your visitation time so I can be available as needed.

You do not need my permission to attend D13's award luncheon and have the right to ask D13 how she feels about it if you so choose. You have always had the freedom to pursue your interests and manage your freee time as you see fit. Now that we are divorced, I hope you continue to feel empowered to do so, without any perceived negative influence from anyone else. You have the unique opportunity to truly find out who you are as an individual. I wish you only the best.

Rooskers



I thought I did well in making it clear she is in her charge of her time with D13 and not me. In the second part I wanted to counter her continued belief that I am the one in control of her life and also to give her a kind of friendly goodbye. I truly hope she does the work to find out who she is and wish her the best.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 473
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Hey roo

How you doing buddy?

Well written email mate but I’ve got a couple of 2x4’s which I’m swinging your way with respect and the best intentions.

First, take advice on getting kids involved in coming up with arrangements with the other parent. Here in oz that’s a huge no no, as is unwittingly putting them in the position of being messengers

Second, by saying it’s up to XW and your daughter to come up with arrangements you expose yourself to being sidelined and not having input, and having that ‘it’s not my call ‘ position used against you if it goes to court.

Third, like I said in my above post speak to your L and don’t diy legal stuff.

Fourth, parenting arrangements are adult issues to be communicated by adults. If you can’t communicate with XW then get your L to do it.

Fifth why are these things up in the air and being discussed if you have a binding parenting agreement? All this should have been covered.

I hope I’m not being harsh mate, but I care for what you’re going through and want to help you .

Cheers ds


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 239
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DS I always love advice and take it as a way to reflect on my actions and improve myself. I am going to try to explain and the situation and see if you still disagree with my actions. I will try not to come across as defensive I am truly just trying to find the best way to help D14 navigate this struggle.

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Fifth why are these things up in the air and being discussed if you have a binding parenting agreement? All this should have been covered.

We have a binding parenting agreement that the judge signed off on. An example, because I don't want to give the actual agreement online, is she is suppose to have D14 every other weekend starting at 5pm Friday until Sunday at 5pm. I help D14 pack and we take all her stuff to school and at 5pm I walk her down the stairs, hug her and she goes with her mom. The problem comes up when D14 tells her mom or asks me to tell her mom that she wants to come home early. The other issue is when XW asks me for permission to do things during her visitation time as if I am the judge who can tell her what to do.

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Second, by saying it’s up to XW and your daughter to come up with arrangements you expose yourself to being sidelined and not having input, and having that ‘it’s not my call ‘ position used against you if it goes to court.

Example of arrangements that I am talking about is this weekends upcoming dance. This Friday is her visitation time with D14 and she will have physical custody of D14. XW emails me and asks what the plans are before and after the dance. She does this a lot even though it is her custody time with D14 and so if I answer D14 would like to get ready at her friends house, go to the dance, and then spend the night at her friends house she will accuse me of interfering with her visitation time. Another example would be when she asks me if D14 would like to go to a party at one of XW's house during her visitation time and if I ask D14 and she says no thank you and I let XW know she doesn't wish to go then XW will accuse me of interfering with her visitation and turning D14 against her friends. I do believe that the arrangements they make during XW visitation time is between D14 and her and it causes an unhealthy triangle if she tries to bring me in on the decision making of what they do during XW time with D14. The lawyer recommended I stay out of their time together and that is what I meant by the statement "the organization, coordination, and fulfillment of your visitation weekend plans with D13 are between you and her" I would not ask my XW for permission to take D14 to the movies during my visitation time and don't want her asking my permission for what she does during her time.

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First, take advice on getting kids involved in coming up with arrangements with the other parent. Here in oz that’s a huge no no, as is unwittingly putting them in the position of being messengers

This is the most difficult part. For example, D14 has an upcoming visitation with her mom from Friday at 5pm until Sunday at 5pm but she doesn't want to go the entire time and tells me this. I tell D14 there is nothing I can do because that is what is stipulated in the legal agreement. D14 will then go to a therapy appointment and tell her therapist that it would help her to build trust and a sense of security if she can go from Friday at 5pm until Saturday at 5pm so she can use Sunday to recover emotionally. I don't enter into that discussion because I don't want to influence D14 either way. After the therapy session D14 with her therapist let me know what D14 would like me to ask her mom. I then let D14 know that I can ask her mom but if she says no then you must follow what is in the legal agreement. I would then email XW what D14 has discussed in therapy and if she would agree to it to let me know so I can be available for an earlier dropoff. XW would return D14 on Saturday at 5pm like D14 asked but then after send me an email saying I was distancing her from D14 and not following the legal agreement. I would then respond that you have physical custody of D14 and you returned her to me by your choice and that . Finally the therapist said this was not healthy for anyone and told me I needed to remove myself from the unhealthy communication triangle. So D14's therapist has been working on D14 communicating what she would like during her visitation time with her mother instead of me having to be the go between which leads to all the accusations.

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Fourth, parenting arrangements are adult issues to be communicated by adults.

If I want D14 beyond my scheduled visitation to take D14 on a vacation then I would certainly communicate this desire with my XW before even bringing it up with D14. It wouldn't be fair to ask D14 to ask her mom if she can go with me on an extended vacation because this puts both D14 and her mother in an unfair position. Likewise if her mom would like to have her for additional time I would like her to go through me first so D14 doesn't feel like she has to arrange or be a go between. I would also be in violation if I kept asking for D14 during XW visitation time and not having her ready or denying visitation. However if D14 wants to go home early from her visitation with her mom then that is between her mom and her because I have no legal right or responsibility in that decision. If she is coming home early I just need either XW or D14 to say "hey D14 will be coming home on Saturday at 5pm instead of Sunday."


Ideally the visitation plan is just followed as outlined but when you have a 14 year old who says I don't want this and an XW who wants me to make decisions regarding what they do during their visitation time then it becomes infinitely more difficult. I would love more suggestions.

Last edited by rooskers; 01/17/20 08:49 PM.

1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Joined: Aug 2019
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I am thinking that my thread should be moved to the surviving big D forum as it doesn't have much to do with newcomers anymore. Can one of the moderators move this unless they think my threads can be beneficial in some way to newcomers.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 239
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I just got a call at work from a lawyer informing me D14 has retained her services. frown


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 473
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Hey Roo

Sorry I havent been around as I've been preoccupied. I'll be onboard soon to offer some support and further thoughts.

Thinking of you in the meantime mate


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 473
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Hey Roo

Sorry I haven't checked in with you til now.

Firstly, how are you feeling about your daughter instructing a lawyer? How does she even do that? It sounds like a good thing though. Have you read up on what these child advocate lawyers do, their role, responsibilities etc?

Man you're in a tough situation with parenting with the XW.

As to coming home early, I think it best if you talk to your L to find out your obligations and rights when your D asks this. Otherwise, if it suits, take D ealry if XW suggests this, and ignore her feelings about you somehow sabotaging her time with D.

With the XW dropping off D early at your request then sending emails makes no sense in that if she consents to dropping early then complains about it, it is disingenuous and self serving. Kind of like having a contract where you have to pay her $100 for a service, she takes $50 instead without complaint, then complains afterwards, but keeps doing the same thing.

I agree you need to remove yourself from the communication triangle.

Hopefully this lawyer for your D will be able to take control of doing things that can independently evaluate what D wants and is in her best interests and go about getting that locked into a further legal agreement.

Cheers DS


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 239
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Joined: Aug 2019
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Otherwise, if it suits, take D ealry if XW suggests this, and ignore her feelings about you somehow sabotaging her time with D.


I never take D14 early it is XW who drops her off. I don't feel it would be right if every time D14 gets in a fight with her mom D14 feels she has the right to call me to come get her. XW would definitely have legal grounds to say I am violating the visitation if I was the one picking D14 up. If XW feels she needs to drop D14 off or they come to some agreement themselves for D14 to come home early I am always available.

Quote
With the XW dropping off D early at your request then sending emails makes no sense in that if she consents to dropping early then complains about it, it is disingenuous and self serving.


It is never my request for D14 to be dropped off early it is either D14's request made to her mom or her mom does it herself. Once again I have communicated D14's request in email but no longer do that because of the accusations.

This is why this whole thing is frustrating. The problem is between D14 and her mother but XW feels the need to put all the blame on me for their relationship troubles. D14 just wants someone on her side to defend her against her mom but I can't be that person hence the IC and now her own lawyer. I did not encourage or ask D14 to get a lawyer she did it herself which caught me completely off guard. The accusations of me abusing my XW and that she left me because I wasn't safe have increased tremendously now that she has a lawyer and is wanting to change the divorce agreement. If I was so abusive and unsafe why did she leave D14 with me? It is hard to not take things like that personally since I never cussed at her, hit her, mocked her, degraded her. In fact, I was her biggest supporter. I don't know where all the hate and anger being hurled at me is coming from.

Plan of Action

1)Stay in my individual therapy and work on me.
2)Continue to stay as dark as possible and only respond when legally necessary.
3)Keep things as normal as possible for D14 when we are at home (chores, teeth brushing, homework, dinner at table, etc.)
4)Continue to let go of the past and work on setting goals for my future
5)Try not to stress about legal matters
5)Get a dog

Last edited by rooskers; 01/28/20 10:44 PM.

1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
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