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The information here is more like "how to survive a divorce" not how to repair a marriage. Almost every thing I've posted has been advice I was given by the old timers.


It is disheartening to get advice from people whose marriages didn't survive however I've come to realize that there is this vast space between repairing a marriage and divorce. It's called separation. Some of us get stuck here for a year or more. One foot on the courthouse steps and one foot in the land of happily ever after. Thing is that choice isn't ours to make. As a LBS I've admitted fully that I am the reason my WAH left. The one thing the old timers give me is hope that I can survive the separation even if my M doesn't make it and for that I am grateful.

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From another thread


Originally Posted by XXXXXXXXXX
Originally Posted by XXXXXXX
.... I found out about her EA....I could just see the way she looked at him...I checked phone records again that day and saw that she talked to him 6 times....She dropped the bomb the next day when I came home. Without too much detail she denies anything with the OM.....But she kept telling me things that I already knew to be untrue...She has admitted the EA, swears it is not a PA (not totally convinced
...sleep in the same bed though there is no physical contact. ...Sometimes it just feels like manipulation, like she has something up her sleeve that I don’t see, but I’m not sure what.


does anybody understand or have any insight into what she could be thinking?
She is a lier and a cheater and is manipulating you.


1) Protect yourself legally
2) Focus on your personal growth
3) Focus on being a great dad

4) DB your butt off. Affairs are great for the cheaters when they are secret. Now that there is a light on it.....





it's this kind of stuff that I talk about. never mind the misspellings but this post seems to come from a place of anger. [

the poster simply don't have all the information to make those kinds of statements.

Do you think they help? I sure don't.

Last edited by Many worries; 10/17/19 08:46 PM.
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Originally Posted by kas99
Quote
The information here is more like "how to survive a divorce" not how to repair a marriage. Almost every thing I've posted has been advice I was given by the old timers.


It is disheartening to get advice from people whose marriages didn't survive however I've come to realize that there is this vast space between repairing a marriage and divorce. It's called separation. Some of us get stuck here for a year or more. One foot on the courthouse steps and one foot in the land of happily ever after. Thing is that choice isn't ours to make. As a LBS I've admitted fully that I am the reason my WAH left. The one thing the old timers give me is hope that I can survive the separation even if my M doesn't make it and for that I am grateful.



Point taken. The online community is a bit different from the website, book, etc. where the slogan "save your marriage" is shown. I don't think the vast majority of people come here to learn how to survive divorce. I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Many worries
but this post seems to come from a place of anger.
More from frustration.
Quote
the poster simply don't have all the information to make those kinds of statements.
I used all the information supplied by the LBS. Where there is smoke, there is fire. I see lots of smoke. LBS should put the fire out.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Many worries
From another thread


Originally Posted by XXXXXXXXXX
Originally Posted by XXXXXXX
.... I found out about her EA....I could just see the way she looked at him...I checked phone records again that day and saw that she talked to him 6 times....She dropped the bomb the next day when I came home. Without too much detail she denies anything with the OM.....But she kept telling me things that I already knew to be untrue...She has admitted the EA, swears it is not a PA (not totally convinced
...sleep in the same bed though there is no physical contact. ...Sometimes it just feels like manipulation, like she has something up her sleeve that I don’t see, but I’m not sure what.


does anybody understand or have any insight into what she could be thinking?
She is a lier and a cheater and is manipulating you.


1) Protect yourself legally
2) Focus on your personal growth
3) Focus on being a great dad

4) DB your butt off. Affairs are great for the cheaters when they are secret. Now that there is a light on it.....





it's this kind of stuff that I talk about. never mind the misspellings but this post seems to come from a place of anger. [

the poster simply don't have all the information to make those kinds of statements.

Do you think they help? I sure don't.



Are you specifically referring to "She is a liar and a cheater and is manipulating you." statement coming from a place of anger?

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I am a former LBW that had a WH and did recover my M. Personally, I don't think that makes me more qualified than others to give advice, but I do come with that perspective, which I recognize is different. Many folks stop posting after the M is restored, and as we know several do not get that opportunity. My BD happened 5.5 years ago and that is when I started reading the boards. I do feel that the culture here has somewhat changed.

When I came here, I did not post or even create a username. I think that was partly due to my own fears, shame and vulnerability. I also was too fragile to handle the 2*4s. I was in pretty bad shape. I followed several threads and was a daily reader. I recall some amazing vets that gave quality advice and support. Some that come to mind are Sandi, AS, Starsky, Wonka, and 25years, and many that I am not recalling at the moment. What I remember most about the threads is the compassion and wisdom that they shared and it extended beyond the cookie cutter advice and rules that can be applied to any sitch. I do not recall them being confrontational and argumentative when people questioned them.

It's hard to explain how things have changed, but now it seems newcomers leave as fast as they join. The turnover rate is higher. I also don't see the same level of compassion or connection happening in threads. I see that there are cowboy advisors, for lack of a better term, that come in with guns blazing. Some of you do come across as entitled to dish out your opinions -- very easily and at times harshly -- before even getting to know the poster. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am finding myself less interested in reading and posing in general.

Sometimes I feel that things become clickish. There is a group of you that come across as defending not only your position, but also the position of your online friends. You come together to agree or disagree with a united front and it's unnecessary, I feel that it would be more productive to spend more time trying to understand why the poster is struggling and how you can better help them. I can guarantee you that there are many readers out there that will never post, and some of that is due to fear of being ganged up on. I am not saying that these people have bad intentions -- quite the contrary -- but 2*4s are not effective unless the recipient feels respected, understood and cared about first!

I think we have taken our diagnosis of Mr Nice Guy way too far and I just don't buy into that. Not every LBH that comes here needs to read the book, become more alpha, and "get his b@lls back." It is getting out of hand and honestly it's kind of a gross exaggeration that feels sex1st. Not all men have been wronged by their W because she BD him, not all men need to become more "masculine" and certainly you all must know that that does not attract all women back. Not all women are attracted to the overconfident alpha male that can GAL like a madman! I have read this cookie cutter 100 times now and I don't agree it applies to everyone.

Like I said, I do think that everyone's intentions are in the right place. However, we can all do a better job with how we communicate and showing more compassion and respect for one another. It's much easier to be confrontational behind a screen, but we are dealing with a vulnerable population and I think it doesn't belong here. We are all adults and we don't need to form clicks, gang up on each other, or defend ourselves if people don't agree. It is entirely up to people if they want to spend hours a day reading and posting here, but it also creates a thread that leaves less room for newbies and people that don't have that much time to weigh in.

I am okay with people not agreeing with my position and what I write here, but I am not interested in arguing about it or arguing with any of you. It's just not a good use of time. I am only here for one reason. I am here because my BD was the hardest time in my life -- my sitch was extreme and not just a little bump in my M or brief parting or ea -- and the lovely vets and these threads 5 years ago kept me going in those very dark days. So I share my story for anyone that can take comfort in that. I also look for people here that may need something that I can offer them. That's it. I am not here to be right, to tell anyone they are wrong, to tell someone that they have to do something, or to cause any more fear, shame or hurt. If you are reading this and even questioning yourself and how you post, then I hope you will at least spend more time and thoughtful care as you post moving forward.

That is what I have for now. I will continue to look at my own mistakes and think about how I can do better.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Originally Posted by BluWave
I am a former LBW that had a WH and did recover my M. Personally, I don't think that makes me more qualified than others to give advice, but I do come with that perspective, which I recognize is different. Many folks stop posting after the M is restored, and as we know several do not get that opportunity. My BD happened 5.5 years ago and that is when I started reading the boards. I do feel that the culture here has somewhat changed.

When I came here, I did not post or even create a username. I think that was partly due to my own fears, shame and vulnerability. I also was too fragile to handle the 2*4s. I was in pretty bad shape. I followed several threads and was a daily reader. I recall some amazing vets that gave quality advice and support. Some that come to mind are Sandi, AS, Starsky, Wonka, and 25years, and many that I am not recalling at the moment. What I remember most about the threads is the compassion and wisdom that they shared and it extended beyond the cookie cutter advice and rules that can be applied to any sitch. I do not recall them being confrontational and argumentative when people questioned them.

It's hard to explain how things have changed, but now it seems newcomers leave as fast as they join. The turnover rate is higher. I also don't see the same level of compassion or connection happening in threads. I see that there are cowboy advisors, for lack of a better term, that come in with guns blazing. Some of you do come across as entitled to dish out your opinions -- very easily and at times harshly -- before even getting to know the poster. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am finding myself less interested in reading and posing in general.

Sometimes I feel that things become clickish. There is a group of you that come across as defending not only your position, but also the position of your online friends. You come together to agree or disagree with a united front and it's unnecessary, I feel that it would be more productive to spend more time trying to understand why the poster is struggling and how you can better help them. I can guarantee you that there are many readers out there that will never post, and some of that is due to fear of being ganged up on. I am not saying that these people have bad intentions -- quite the contrary -- but 2*4s are not effective unless the recipient feels respected, understood and cared about first!

I think we have taken our diagnosis of Mr Nice Guy way too far and I just don't buy into that. Not every LBH that comes here needs to read the book, become more alpha, and "get his b@lls back." It is getting out of hand and honestly it's kind of a gross exaggeration that feels sex1st. Not all men have been wronged by their W because she BD him, not all men need to become more "masculine" and certainly you all must know that that does not attract all women back. Not all women are attracted to the overconfident alpha male that can GAL like a madman! I have read this cookie cutter 100 times now and I don't agree it applies to everyone.

Like I said, I do think that everyone's intentions are in the right place. However, we can all do a better job with how we communicate and showing more compassion and respect for one another. It's much easier to be confrontational behind a screen, but we are dealing with a vulnerable population and I think it doesn't belong here. We are all adults and we don't need to form clicks, gang up on each other, or defend ourselves if people don't agree. It is entirely up to people if they want to spend hours a day reading and posting here, but it also creates a thread that leaves less room for newbies and people that don't have that much time to weigh in.

I am okay with people not agreeing with my position and what I write here, but I am not interested in arguing about it or arguing with any of you. It's just not a good use of time. I am only here for one reason. I am here because my BD was the hardest time in my life -- my sitch was extreme and not just a little bump in my M or brief parting or ea -- and the lovely vets and these threads 5 years ago kept me going in those very dark days. So I share my story for anyone that can take comfort in that. I also look for people here that may need something that I can offer them. That's it. I am not here to be right, to tell anyone they are wrong, to tell someone that they have to do something, or to cause any more fear, shame or hurt. If you are reading this and even questioning yourself and how you post, then I hope you will at least spend more time and thoughtful care as you post moving forward.

That is what I have for now. I will continue to look at my own mistakes and think about how I can do better.

Blu


Thank you for expounding. I think that you make some good points for posters to consider. I do have a couple of observations and comments.

First, you admit to being a tad sensitive. " I also was too fragile to handle the 2*4s." And then go out to call out sexism on the board. Is the board really sexist? Or are your sensitivities to it elevated above the typical poster here? I ask that because while you aren't wrong, and even to me sometimes it does go overboard, some of the harshest posters related to "manning up" or "being alpha" are some our female posters.

I do feel that there are distinct differences in the sexes and that the advice needs to be tailored to the LBS, male or female. We also have most posters here that are heterosexual, and therefore we do have to deal with the differences between the sexes in those situations. (On that note, since I have no experience with homosexual relationships I typically stay out of those because I do not feel I can contribute decent advice.)

As far as NGS, I do feel that a lot of the LBHs that come here are suffering from some level of that. All? Of course not. And I have seen quite a few sitches here where NGS is never mentioned. But when the markers are observed (passive-aggressiveness, covert contracts etc) the the typical advice is to read NMMNG and to get that under control. I am a firm believer that it you want to fix your marriage you first have to fix yourself.

As far as 2x4s, I can only speak for myself. I got quite a few 2x4s RIGHT off the bat when I posted my sitch. And looking back I appreciated ever single one. I didn't come here to be coddled or handled gently, I came here to be told where I was messing up and making things worse. You've pointed out that the vast majority of posters here want to help. Want to support. Want to see the person's marriage saved. But most importantly, want to see the poster saved! Sometimes that takes 2x4s. And sometimes those 2x4s come fairly quickly. And no, we don't always get to know the person very well because after all it is a message board and we can only know what the person tells us. I recently disclosed that I had engaged in past EAs. No one knew that because no one could know that. But what everyone did know is that Steve85 is a flawed individual (because we all are) that isn't innocent (because none of us are) that was far from a perfect spouse (because we all are).

And while I am on it (and Blu this isn't in response to anything you said), I am not sure where it got turned around that preparing a LBS for getting D'd isn't DBing? The thing about these sitches is that it takes two people to make marriage, only one to make a D. So it is near impossible to DB solely by SAVING the marriage. Because that isn't within the LBS's control, nor anyone posting here. I really wish we could tell every poster that comes here "Do A, B, and C, and we guarantee you'll save your marriage." Unfortunately, that is not possible. SO part of DBing is preparing the LBS for what might be inevitable: the end of their marriage. All of the GAL, 180ing, and detaching in the world cannot always prevent that.

Blu. thank you for the thoughtful post. I know it will cause me to think a little harder before just firing off a response to a poster. But just as no spouse, even the LBS, is perfect, neither are we as posters. We are doing our best to help and support others that are going through the same things that we did.


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Originally Posted by Steve85


Thank you for expounding. I think that you make some good points for posters to consider. I do have a couple of observations and comments.

First, you admit to being a tad sensitive. " I also was too fragile to handle the 2*4s." And then go out to call out sexism on the board. Is the board really sexist? Or are your sensitivities to it elevated above the typical poster here? I ask that because while you aren't wrong, and even to me sometimes it does go overboard, some of the harshest posters related to "manning up" or "being alpha" are some our female posters.

I do feel that there are distinct differences in the sexes and that the advice needs to be tailored to the LBS, male or female. We also have most posters here that are heterosexual, and therefore we do have to deal with the differences between the sexes in those situations. (On that note, since I have no experience with homosexual relationships I typically stay out of those because I do not feel I can contribute decent advice.)

As far as NGS, I do feel that a lot of the LBHs that come here are suffering from some level of that. All? Of course not. And I have seen quite a few sitches here where NGS is never mentioned. But when the markers are observed (passive-aggressiveness, covert contracts etc) the the typical advice is to read NMMNG and to get that under control. I am a firm believer that it you want to fix your marriage you first have to fix yourself.

As far as 2x4s, I can only speak for myself. I got quite a few 2x4s RIGHT off the bat when I posted my sitch. And looking back I appreciated ever single one. I didn't come here to be coddled or handled gently, I came here to be told where I was messing up and making things worse. You've pointed out that the vast majority of posters here want to help. Want to support. Want to see the person's marriage saved. But most importantly, want to see the poster saved! Sometimes that takes 2x4s. And sometimes those 2x4s come fairly quickly. And no, we don't always get to know the person very well because after all it is a message board and we can only know what the person tells us. I recently disclosed that I had engaged in past EAs. No one knew that because no one could know that. But what everyone did know is that Steve85 is a flawed individual (because we all are) that isn't innocent (because none of us are) that was far from a perfect spouse (because we all are).

And while I am on it (and Blu this isn't in response to anything you said), I am not sure where it got turned around that preparing a LBS for getting D'd isn't DBing? The thing about these sitches is that it takes two people to make marriage, only one to make a D. So it is near impossible to DB solely by SAVING the marriage. Because that isn't within the LBS's control, nor anyone posting here. I really wish we could tell every poster that comes here "Do A, B, and C, and we guarantee you'll save your marriage." Unfortunately, that is not possible. SO part of DBing is preparing the LBS for what might be inevitable: the end of their marriage. All of the GAL, 180ing, and detaching in the world cannot always prevent that.

Blu. thank you for the thoughtful post. I know it will cause me to think a little harder before just firing off a response to a poster. But just as no spouse, even the LBS, is perfect, neither are we as posters. We are doing our best to help and support others that are going through the same things that we did.



Blu really eloquently communication what I was trying to say about this board.

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My being a tad sensitive has nothing to do with the male energy of pumping one another up to be more alpha. No idea how you made that direct connection. I wasn’t a tad bit either, I was extremely. My H didn’t just have a couple EAs and turn around after a couple months. He had a very long EA with a best friend and then picked up and left me for her for a year. It also happened when my father died and my teen daughter was diagnosed bipolar, and while he was gone I had to send her out of state. I think that warrants sensitivity, as other things do for a lot of our posters. I didn’t want 2*4s, I was trying to get through each day. That’s why I chose not to post. But I still read here and people were not as harsh or argumentative.

In terms of what constitutes sexism, well I could talk about that one all day. But I’m not going to. Why would I? I’m from a very different part of the country and the community that I live in has different values and a different way of communicating. I don’t want to argue or spend time here discussing it because that is not what this forum is even for. But I certainly cringe when I see people on the boards carelessly tell one another to man up, be more alpha, go fire a gun, get your balls back, etc. Not all posters want to read that macho advice nor does it benefit all them. I do think at times there are people that really can benefit from having firmer boundaries and standing up for themselves, or doing more GAL, but this can be said in many different ways.

I really do not agree that most men are having Nice Guy Syndrome, I really dont. I have read the book and it fits my own Hs character 100% . I think I have a good understanding of how it happens and how it can hurt a M or any relationship. I don’t see how those same qualities can be attributed to most of the posters here. I think people want to see that. It all fits into a mold of being wronged by the WAW/WW. I think it’s more beneficial to understand where he could have gone wrong than make that assumption.

And again, I’m here feeling like I need to defend myself. I don’t know that there is much point to this. Have you ever read any of starskys posts? He gave the best advice and was a gem to these boards. I don’t see posters like him much anymore. So my only point to posting is that I can see some of No worries points. Things have changed. There are people here that entitle themself to advise people, and sometimes 100 times a day. Entitle isn’t necessarily a bad word, but they really believe they are able to understand and help.

The culture is different IMO. Just the very fact, Steve85, that you wanted to address all of my points and engage me in this, is an example of what I mean. Why not just accept my position for what it is? I see it differently. I liked the posters and culture more several years ago. I don’t read and post as much. That’s fine. Others will come and go too.

Blu


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Originally Posted by BluWave
My being a tad sensitive has nothing to do with the male energy of pumping one another up to be more alpha. No idea how you made that direct connection. I wasn’t a tad bit either, I was extremely. My H didn’t just have a couple EAs and turn around after a couple months. He had a very long EA with a best friend and then picked up and left me for her for a year. It also happened when my father died and my teen daughter was diagnosed bipolar, and while he was gone I had to send her out of state. I think that warrants sensitivity, as other things do for a lot of our posters. I didn’t want 2*4s, I was trying to get through each day. That’s why I chose not to post. But I still read here and people were not as harsh or argumentative.

In terms of what constitutes sexism, well I could talk about that one all day. But I’m not going to. Why would I? I’m from a very different part of the country and the community that I live in has different values and a different way of communicating. I don’t want to argue or spend time here discussing it because that is not what this forum is even for. But I certainly cringe when I see people on the boards carelessly tell one another to man up, be more alpha, go fire a gun, get your balls back, etc. Not all posters want to read that macho advice nor does it benefit all them. I do think at times there are people that really can benefit from having firmer boundaries and standing up for themselves, or doing more GAL, but this can be said in many different ways.

I really do not agree that most men are having Nice Guy Syndrome, I really dont. I have read the book and it fits my own Hs character 100% . I think I have a good understanding of how it happens and how it can hurt a M or any relationship. I don’t see how those same qualities can be attributed to most of the posters here. I think people want to see that. It all fits into a mold of being wronged by the WAW/WW. I think it’s more beneficial to understand where he could have gone wrong than make that assumption.

And again, I’m here feeling like I need to defend myself. I don’t know that there is much point to this. Have you ever read any of starskys posts? He gave the best advice and was a gem to these boards. I don’t see posters like him much anymore. So my only point to posting is that I can see some of No worries points. Things have changed. There are people here that entitle themself to advise people, and sometimes 100 times a day. Entitle isn’t necessarily a bad word, but they really believe they are able to understand and help.

The culture is different IMO. Just the very fact, Steve85, that you wanted to address all of my points and engage me in this, is an example of what I mean. Why not just accept my position for what it is? I see it differently. I liked the posters and culture more several years ago. I don’t read and post as much. That’s fine. Others will come and go too.

Blu


Blu, my apologies if you feel like you have defend yourself. You shouldn't have to. I sincerely appreciate your perspective and agree with many of your points.

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