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DnJ, I am wondering if you are intentionally ignoring the opening where I admit to being in a constant state of anxiety and terror. I am sick and tired of your positivity and inspiration and hope! Just kidding, I love it. But I am not very good at it (yeah, i know you are going to quote that and cross out the "not very"), probably because I don't want to be good at it because on some level I like to be trapped in my thought trap. I know I am nowhere near where you are in terms of acceptance of my new life and my future life. And I don't know if it's because I don't want a new family or to live that blended family life and you are open to it. And yes, I know that is part of the jumping ahead thing we are supposed to avoid, but right now it is defining my stand and making it feel very negative and yet I can't see it any other way even though I try most of the time to not even think about it!

D10 kept mentioning the OW today. I did tell her last time that that woman is very lost and should be spending her time with her family and her own H, but today when D came back from a night with H and told me that Papa is painting and doing handyman work for OW, I almost threw up. My best friend is in education like me, and likes to give kids all the tools of life from the get go, to be leaders and participants in everything; she thinks that I should tell my kids everything, including that I had cancer and that H had this other woman all this time, etc., so that they can be informed and make their own choices. But I don't know. All this time I didn't tell them about the adultery because I wanted them to believe in marriage and not to fall into repeating the choices of their father, since that always seems to happen with kids who had a cheating parent. So I am not sure what is best there (and in fact I would love to hear a whole bunch of opinions on that from all the wide variety of outlooks here), but I sure wish I never had to hear about that woman!

But if you read what I just wrote on BPD's thread, you can see a little of your influence does occasionally sink in. Today in fact I was trying to force a DnJ discipline on myself, but I couldn't remember what was accurate, what was the sword, how to shine it, etc. As a way of climbing out of my almost unbearable loneliness tonight (D on a sleepover, S somewhere out there with his skateboard), I wrote on that thread something really really specific, hoping it would sink into me too.

Last edited by Gerda; 10/06/19 01:07 AM.

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Hello Gerda

Originally Posted by Gerda
DnJ, I am wondering if you are intentionally ignoring the opening where I admit to being in a constant state of anxiety and terror.

No, I’m not ignoring it.

Your last post had this:
Originally Posted by Gerda
I've been trying to figure out why I feel so terrified all the time, unfocused, etc. The peace that came with his moving out was intense, but it is being eroded by dealing constantly with the divorce horrors.

Then went on with 6 paragraphs, a few of them quite large, rationally explaining what is going.

You used the words “I think” when describing a few idea, and others you just plainly stated the facts with sans emotion.

That is mental assertiveness - the sword. From my side of the screen - you detached, uncoupled from the irrational pull of your situation. For a little bit. Please see that.

That is exactly the start of it. Seeing and believing it is possible. It’s not about seeing it in me or others; it is about seeing it in you.

I think I didn’t ignore anything, I think I saw pretty clearly. It does help having walked through that maze before.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am sick and tired of your positivity and inspiration and hope! Just kidding, I love it.

Gasp! Wow! That was a bit a scare until I continued reading.

Positivity, inspiration, and hope. smile And I have actually dialled myself back, online.

You are right in that I am open to (and want) my life and future life, even that blended family part - although that is my least favourite bit.

At first I had to just accept what is and what is not. I didn’t want it. I just had to accept it. To open up to it. Hey, it ain’t going no where, so what choice do I have. Then after I got open to the idea, it wasn’t so bad. It wasn’t so good either. However there is good in all things, even though it might take some significant digging to find it. The good does outweigh the bad, by a significant margin.

I do believe in telling the kids, age appropriately of course, about the situation. Shielding them from certain information will backfire eventually. Adultery is a good example. I don’t think that because Dad cheated his son will cheat. I believe children’s behaviour comes from how the parents deal with the different stimulus. Not talking about something, burying it, and it will come back later.

How we talk about things, like adultery, is just as important. We need to keep our prejudices and feelings out of things. Value and beliefs should be discussed along with the facts of what is happening. And no bashing the other parent. They are a hurt, torrented, and desperate people doing desperate deeds. Kids can understand that. Kids can accept that. Kids can most definitely choose better and not bitter.

As for instilling a belief in marriage to children. Nothing is more powerful than demonstrable role model. How you, the sane stable parent lives her life will convey much more than words ever will. They have two role model already, and will have for some time.

My beliefs, and demonstrations. I love my kids’ Mom, my wife. I did not date, or stray while married/separated - or even after, apparently. I was kind in my limited interactions with her, even though inside I was destroyed. I continue to be kind and value the many great years of marriage. I did not rewrite my history. Instead, I write my future.

I do apologize for my sometimes lack of specificity; it is done with intent. (((Gerda))) I really want to hear what you think and believe.

I will answer, specifically as I can, the questions you posed on my thread.

DnJ


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Originally Posted by Gerda
Hopefully you will get 0ut of the slavery of Egypt and toward the promise land; but before reaching the promise land there is the desert. In the desert there is not goal, no direction, no joy, only hope.
As you go through this desert, don't make any plan, not even think about your future. Rely completely on the Lord; He knows and He will show you His mighty power. Believe that He has your life in His hand.
Keep on suffering for your children and put all your hope in the Lord. In the future He will show the way.
Keep your faith and Hope, because the Lord never abandons those who love Him.



I love this, and can really relate. I am backtracking a bit. Worrying too much about H and his GF, and not relying enough on God's guidance and promises. Very timely, my friend.

I'm sorry you continue to have so many trials. It's hard to understand how people can be so mean, spiteful, and vindictive.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I have been reflecting on my stance on this divorce and if I would do better to give in to all his demands and be done with the horrible interactions and his ability to keep harassing me. But what I always come to is that what I am asking for is more than reasonable, and that I have the right to try to keep a half-decent life for my kids if I can.


You are doing what is best for your kids and you, and that is always the right path. Stay the course. Stay strong.

You have the strength, my dear Gerda.

Grace


M: 56
H: 57
S: 22
D: 20

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Originally Posted by DnJ

Not talking about something, burying it, and it will come back later



Hi Gerda,

I don't believe we really know each other welll, but wanted to echo DnJ's sentiments above. I think not talking about things (anything, really) is in part a behavior that may lead to NGS and/or other avoidant behaviors. I know that I learned some of that from my own parents, and I'm actively seeking to re-learn how to engage with the world around me.

If your parents see you authentically engaging with the world around you - including the difficulties you are currently facing - they will see that at the end of this their mother will come out out a stronger woman despite/because of the adversity she faced.

And they will internalize that they too have the ability to face the world head-on. I think that's what's needed in a strong marriage. The courage to keep trying, even when things do eventually get hard. Because all marriages reach a point where it gets really, really tough.

Personally, I believe in having a growth mindset (as opposed to a fixed mindset). There's a definition for that: "In a growth mindset, people believe that their most basic abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work—brains and talent are just the starting point." So we are all still growing through life, and with the growth mindset you can tackle the tough parts of a marriage, not just give up and say "Oh, I wasn't built for this."

Sharing the details with your kids and being age-appropriately honest with them shows you are in a growth mindset becuase you're looking at the world around you and responding in a way that is best for you. They can see you working through it. That will stick with them.

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Gerda Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ

You used the words “I think” when describing a few idea, and others you just plainly stated the facts with sans emotion.

That is mental assertiveness - the sword. From my side of the screen - you detached, uncoupled from the irrational pull of your situation. For a little bit. Please see that.

That is exactly the start of it. Seeing and believing it is possible. It’s not about seeing it in me or others; it is about seeing it in you.


Thank you as usual for writing such thoughtful replies to me and giving me so much of your time and care.

I was thinking about this part of the thread the last few days. It may have to do with the state of mind we are in when we come to this board. I was thinking about how I am known for being a very shrewd and daring woman in my business life and how H used to say of me, "She laughs at work." H's MLC hatred of me is largely based on his feeling that I am so pragmatic in business, taking risks but always aware of the worst-case scenario to be prepared for, putting emotion aside to get a deal done. My artistic life requires a constant ability to put myself out there and get rejected many times before getting work/acceptance.

What you said here is what I do most of the time but I never think of myself as wielding the DnJ sword or being clear and accurate, etc., because my heart hurts so much.

But maybe I really am like that almost all the time except when I collapse in the arms of God or in the virtual arms here. All I did in the last five years and what I am doing now to keep our physical ship (house, biz, tax issues, food/clothes for kids, etc) from sinking was nothing anyone I know could have done. Or to use your car metaphor, I have gone thousands of miles on fumes.

The cross maybe is more the heart burden than the rest. I am walking and living and dealing but my heart hurts so much through it that I am squirming inside all the time from the pain.

And there is another thing that I will save for your thread because it addresses something you said there.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I do believe in telling the kids, age appropriately of course, about the situation. Shielding them from certain information will backfire eventually. Adultery is a good example. I don’t think that because Dad cheated his son will cheat. I believe children’s behaviour comes from how the parents deal with the different stimulus. Not talking about something, burying it, and it will come back later.

How we talk about things, like adultery, is just as important. We need to keep our prejudices and feelings out of things. Value and beliefs should be discussed along with the facts of what is happening. And no bashing the other parent. They are a hurt, torrented, and desperate people doing desperate deeds. Kids can understand that. Kids can accept that. Kids can most definitely choose better and not bitter.


OK, so what do you think is an age appropriate way to tell a 10-year old? I have no idea. I have an idea with other peoples' kids, I work with kids for much of my work and consider myself a teen whisperer. But my own kid, and all the baggage I am no doubt lugging in my heart/head? I don't know which things are right and which are a secret desire for her to hate H. I am not fully aware of that desire but I imagine it is lurking under there somewhere. Some need for revenge that still persists underneath my desire to let God be the only judge here, and to forgive everything and to stand. Certainly I can admit I would want her to never encounter OW and if she does, to hate her. I know intellectually why that won't work but I am just being open about what is in my heart.

Originally Posted by DnJ

My beliefs, and demonstrations. I love my kids’ Mom, my wife. I did not date, or stray while married/separated - or even after, apparently. I was kind in my limited interactions with her, even though inside I was destroyed. I continue to be kind and value the many great years of marriage. I did not rewrite my history. Instead, I write my future.



Do you still love her?

For my part, I think I still love the Artist Formerly Known as H even if his body has been overtaken by the MLC alien. But I can't remember him that well. Some of it might just be obedience to my vows. Some of it is genuine compassion for him, locked somewhere inside that monster, and of course the whole point of my screenname, Gerda, who walks miles barefoot in the snow because the ice queen has frozen Kay's heart, and she can melt Kay's frozen heart with her love. Not that I think I can do that by walking anywhere. But just by standing, to be open to the possibility.

There is some part of me that feels very strongly that once I let my kids see me love someone else, the game is up. I don't ever want to do that. I hated seeing that as a child. It is part of what led me to Christ, understanding that my feelings about remarriage as adultery that were just instinctive as a child were actually part of the Christian faith. I am not saying I wouldn't love another man besides H. I haven't acted on it but certainly I have felt it. I am only talking about legitimizing it with an actual relationship that my kids see.

And that is why I get confused about standing. I know I can have a great life without H. It's the limitation I have placed on that life that gives me pause.

All that said, I did realize after a dark talk with S14 the other night (he said he didn't want to live, etc), that they need to see me really love my life. So I am going to try to fake it til I make it on that front. No one needs to know that the one thing plaguing me (I mean besides the daily horrors H sends my way) is the thought of being alone til the end. More on that on your thread. The rest of my life can be great either way.

Last edited by Gerda; 10/09/19 04:49 PM.

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Grace, thank you so much for the encouragement, and I am glad my spiritual father was able to minister to you too. I am very lucky to have him, even though he has moved away from my city, he still writes to me when I ask him for advice.

I have noticed on your thread that you seem to be walking a fine line between doing what you have to do and letting some other forces creep into your vision of it. The whole divorce process is so focused on what is just and equitable, literally, that it makes me sometimes forget where to put my energy as far as what God wants. For example, I think that fighting to keep my kids in their home and community is something I can stand for. But trying to get some of the extra monetary things that would be right but would require a lot of vicious fighting, I am willing to let go of those. I have taken care of everything myself since BD and before it without any help from H. Using the court to get him to do what's right now is not of interest to me if it requires that I turn as ugly as H has turned. I am fighting as long as I can keep my kids in our home but that's my outer limit for this mess.

(((Grace))))))


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Yail, thank you so much for writing; it's always nice to see someone I don't "thread with" that often come by and weigh in, I need and want that very much!

I am not sure I totally know what you mean. I see what you mean in theory, but are you specifically talking about how I talk to my kids about the adultery? Also in the case of my son, he already refuses to see or speak to H since he left in June. H keeps writing to him saying he doesn't know why; he has forgotten that he abandoned S at BD and spent 6 years ignoring him! But I can't see any reason to sit S14 down and tell him about the adultery, unless I was sitting the kids down together. I always thought if I said anything it would need to come out of the context of something my kids said or asked. My D does see him and is now being forced to see the OW so I did think maybe I should say something more, but I am not sure what purpose it really serves. Doesn't it just add to D10's burden?

I understand what you are saying about growth. But I always get confused in application of ideas that make sense in theory!

Last edited by Gerda; 10/09/19 05:05 PM.

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Yeah...I was wordy but not very clear crazy I have a lot going on in my world and I think I had a brain hiccup or two mid post! smile

Originally Posted by Gerda
I always thought if I said anything it would need to come out of the context of something my kids said or asked. My D does see him and is now being forced to see the OW so I did think maybe I should say something more, but I am not sure what purpose it really serves. Doesn't it just add to D10's burden?


I think this is the perfect summary, and I see your thought process clearly now. I would be having the same back-and-forth. The easiest solution is certainly answering questions your kids have in an open and honest way. But if they're not asking, that does become tricky. I'm not a parent, I can't speak to how to navigate.

I will think on it some more, and may pop back in if thoughts come together in a more coheasive way.

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Oh my gosh, Yail, not at all! You are being clear, I just tend to need a script to understand advice! But yes, I do think all the things I am good at with other peoples' kids become totally foggy when in the thick of my emotions with my own.


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Hi Gerda! I wanted to chime in on a few things.

First, the kids. I also have a hard time with knowing exactly what to tell them. My kids don't know that W had (at least) an EA. I feel like I'd like them to know some of the WHY behind things. But, they haven't asked of specifics, and they are staying with W every other week. D does not have a good relationship with W (even though it seems like W has been trying lately), and son seems fine but somewhat indifferent with her. My relationship with them is great. At this point the EA was about 2.5 years ago. They haven't asked for specifics and their relationship already isn't great with W, so I haven't given them the details of that. I think if she was still actively in that EA, or that it had continued on longer than it did (OM got married shortly after to someone else) then I may have made the move to tell them. I don't want to unload on them more than they can handle or need, but my struggle has been with exactly what that means. I've been feeling it out and I think I've made the right decision for my sitch, but everyone's is different.

I also wanted to touch on dating. I would advise most people against it until they are fully healed. About 6 months after W moved out (which was about a year and a half after BD) I started going on a couple of dates. Mainly I was really lonely and I felt like I had progressed to a point where I wasn't depressed every waking hour of the day. I felt like I was better enough to explore opportunities. The truth is, I was lonely and wanted to feel loved. So, I met a girl that I really like and have been dating her for a while now. I now realize that it was a mistake. This girl I met is amazing. She is smart, funny, a great cook, loves almost all the same things as me...and she really likes me. At first it was great! Well, its still great, but I realize now that getting myself involved with someone else before I was healed was A) slowing down my healing by distracting me with another relationship, and B) not fair to her because I can't really give her my all.

Thing is, I realize I've hit a bit of an emotional wall. I really like her, but I can't seem to get past a certain point with the development of my feelings for her. I realize now that its because I haven't really fully healed from the sitch with W. So, now it seems that dating has caused more complexity within my situation. I like everything about this girl, yet I realize that I'm not really ready to be in a full time relationship. I wanted you to know how dating is for me so you could gain some insight in to what it might be like if you did. It would probably feel great at first being that you have been emotionally depraved from your H. Its nice to have someone to tell you all the things you've wanted to hear from H. But, after being told those nice things, there is a relationship with someone new to maintain.

I'm sorry to hear about all the nasty things H is doing to you in court. One day you'll be seeing all this stuff in the rear view mirror. Won't it be nice to eventually get out from under all this mess? It will happen...its hard during this part, but you will get past this to the next chapter of your life.

(((Gerda)))

-Sam


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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