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Ginger1 #2867407 10/05/19 02:35 PM
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Just something I’ve noticed...

I think to find love you have to just be willing to be vulnerable. Which is hard because we have all experienced the heartache and pain that comes when being all in. But you have to put yourself out there. I think that’s a good quality that you have Ginger. Your willing to experience the possibility of loss because it means the potential of something really great. And just because you haven’t found it yet, it doesn’t mean it’s not out there. What you are learning is that you are surviving loss. And maybe even thriving with each loss you experience because look at what you have achieved. (Independence, wisdom, empathy, relate-ability to others - which draws people to you)

I do not think it’s too early to date again as long as you feel comfortable with it. Things hadn’t been good between you and M for a while. And life is short. We wait and follow rules and time lines but it gets a little ridiculous because love is not really a formula or recipe that we can follow. It happens when it happens. And if your open to it, there’s a chance to get hurt. But there’s also a possibility for success.

I think some love avoidants like to avoid the potential for pain. By not risking or investing there’s no way to get hurt. By going in extra cautious and withholding love they risk little. But how do you ever experience the deeper feelings with those types of fears? It’s like waiting till your 8 to ride a two wheeler instead of trying it at 6. Who knows. Just because most 8 year olds are ready and won’t get hurt- you lose 2 years of having possibly been able to enjoy riding.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Ginger1 #2867409 10/05/19 03:04 PM
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(((Ginger))). Reading what you wrote, I swear you and I are kindred spirits Ginger. I am so much like you in the way I think and even my fears and insecurities. I, too, am someone who trusts easily and puts herself out there. My twin is much more sceptical and cautious about her feelings and she if forever warning me about wearing my heart on my sleeve. Honestly, though, I don’t think I know any other way to be and it is who I am. Yes, us heart-on-sleeve girls get hurt but we also have a great capacity to love unconditionally and to forgive. Your relationship with your XH is a testament to that capacity. IMO...that is a gift and you shouldn’t apologize for it. Are you more apt to get hurt or blindsided by people... yep...that’s the flip side of the coin. What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger though. I fully believe what you are searching for is out there... have faith and believe...and don’t look SO hard for it. It will find you. Best of luck on your date. I hope it is everything you hope it can be. (((HUGS)))

DejaVu6 #2867417 10/05/19 04:15 PM
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G, I hope you didn't misunderstand my post.

Unlike many on here, I have the honor of knowing you in real life. So, that allows me an understanding and perspective perhaps others don't necessarily have.

So..is if ok that you are dating? Of course. You are an adult. Do I think it's wise right now? No. That's the truth...from my perspective.

Here's why. You clearly want to be in a serious, long term relationship that leads to some sort of permanency, right?
The men you have been with did not want that. They may have thought they did, but, they didnt. I know you are going to say some of them went on to have serious relationships and I get that. For what ever reason, it wasnt what they wanted at the time they were with you.

I dont care about them. I care about you. I feel, and I feel this way because it is what happened with me, that the way to find what you are looking for in life begins with you. With what is inside you. And when you are good with you, it gets reflected back out there.

It was not until I realized many things, that I met R. I was feeling good about me..for the most part. But more importantly, I knew in my heart that I was ok on my own. I know, you are going to tell me you are good on your own....I know you!!

What I mean by that is...that I decided I was not interested in meeting anyone. I had decided to let the idea go because I still had work to do on me. I still needed to feel complete and happy being UR. I needed to know, without a single doubt, that I was enough. Not by anyone else's standards..except my own.

When I was getting there...and trust me I am still a work in progress...I let go of what I thought my life should look like and embraced the life I had. You do that...but, always with an eye towards someone else being in it.

I fully accepted my life as it was. And that feeling showed. I was good to go. Happy as I can be given all the stuff in my life to deal with...and on my way I went.

It was then that I met R. I hadnt thought of being with anyone. Truth is, I didnt really want to be at that moment. Funny thing is, that he was in the exact same mindset.

So what I am trying to say...and geez, I need to get to it...LOL.. Is that even though you say you're ok with your life, your actions say something different.

And it is these actions, I think, that are allowing you to get in your own way.

That is why I think you needed to wait a little bit longer. You are not over M and how he may have felt and what you thought and all of that. You arent, sweetie.

And it isnt good to bring all that forward. It needs to be let go fully.

And what I mean about you doing things differently is that you need to figure out whether you are not choosing wisely, or whether you still tend to go all in, or whether that fact that you want something so badly is impacting your actions when you meet someone.

Dont get me wrong...I love who you are...you gotta love who you are, too...fully, unconditionally, deeply.

Otherwise, you will just keep getting the same results.

Ginger1 #2867455 10/06/19 12:02 PM
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UR, I think you hit on a point I will be very truthful about.

I will not be ok with being alone for the rest of my life. I will be “OK” , but I am not ok with it, if that makes sense.

I spent my adulthood single for the most part. I had a small stint in marriage which produced a beautiful child . But that was over by 28 years old. I’m coming on to 40, and even though I felt my biological clock ticking for a second child, I mourned the loss of that and I am ok with it. Then I found out I could love someone else’s child deeply! And I lost two of those. I honestly do not want to live the rest of my life alone. I have done it far longer than I anticipated. It’s been a lonely ride. I mean, rich in the friend and child area, but I lonely difficult ride. My child will be on her own one day. And it will only get lonelier. I’ve got no family, no siblings, no nieces and nephews. Nothing. I’m essentially alone. And I want a partner. And I have lots of to give and it would be a dam shame if I don’t get that chance to share it. I’m also a pretty darn good partner. I know lots of people who are coupled and re coupled who would not be ok alone, even on a level of having to care for themselves. That’s not me for sure. But they keep finding someone. Some end in great relationships. I guess I haven’t figured out why I am exempt yet. If I was a bitter nasty woman who hated me , maybe I would get it. If I was boring and unloving , I would get it.

So in a nutshell, no, I cannot accept the fact that I’ll be alone. I was totally accepting of it for a little while knowing my tome would come when it would. But it never came. And I really though it would have. All I kept hearing when I first separated/divorced was that “you are soooo young! You’ll find a great guy, get remarried and have more kids!” And it never happened.

As far as the guys I have chosen. They have been the wrong ones for sure. Except for M. He was the wrong one for me after time, but initially, things were going according the book. But I got to really see him for who he was and I knew he wasn’t for me.

I am definitely not going all in right away. Those days are gone. I use my head before my heart now. I analyze, I just date, the guy and I let it progress naturally . M was the one who arranged the kid meetings, not me. I never pressured him into the inital meetings. It was all his planning, the week d away, everything. The only thing I pressured was hiding who I really was to him. I never brought up a future or an R talk, which I actually kind of regret now, because I never really got to know if we are on the same page. And the whole time he was thinking something he wasn’t showing and his other words said opposite. I really Felt like before the kids got involved, we should have been comfortable having that talk. But I stayed away from all R talks and let things naturally progress.

I may be in my head too much when I date guys stressing about doing it all right and by the books. That I’m not pressuring, no scaring anyone away, that I’m supportive and validating and all that Jazz, sometimes I think it’s too much. DB hasn’t really helped me on that sense. I’m too aware of my every move like I used to have to be and a lot isn’t natural anymore, because I’m scared natural me is going to scare a guy off. That’s really hard. I just want to be me. But I feel like there are too many relationship and dating rules I need to abide by. And I’m not me anymore. And that may be where the breakdown comes along. Maybe guys could sense this. Maybe that’s whats missing. It really just occurred to me. I think in M’s case though he really was so stuck in his own little world, nothing else mattered including me. He never got to know me, seriously. I literally couldn’t say a sentence without him cutting me off in the middle and talking about himself. But yeah, I try to do everything by these rules everyone speaks of, afraid to give too much, not enough, at the right time or the wrong time that I’m coming across as fake or not the real me and people are sensing it. I don’t think it’s desperation they are sensing. I think knit almost seems like a woman who isn’t sure of herself.

And I kind of am. But all these rules make me seem unsure. And they just don’t feel right to me. That was very therapeutic writing that out. Now I just have to figure out the best way to go about remedying this. And I imagine a part of this is also not fearing growing old alone.

Speaking of growing old alone. In my job, I see what happens to people who do end up growing old alone. And it’s very sad. No spouse to care for them. Trying to live alone in an unsafe situation because they have no choice . No one to turn to to help. No kids, or kids off with their families. I see what happens when you get sick and have no one. I see the joy and love of these people who have been married 60+ years. It’s in front of my face everyday .

Now that I have been so long winded, in a nutshell, I am not ok with being alone for the rest of my life. I’m trying to not let that fact cloud my choices though. Because it is better to be alone than with someone and lonely. That’s for sure. Because that was worst feeling when I was with M. But what’s failing my relationships I think is that I am no longer me in them. I’m so busy trying to do this dating thing by the rules and “correctly” I probably do t even seem like me anymore and maybe I kind of acriss kind of fake.

Ginger1 #2867509 10/07/19 01:15 PM
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I just want to say I so appreciate everyone's contributions. IT, you know me and I especially take everything you say to heart and mind and I appreciate your honesty so much. I like to hear how it is.

I am realizing nothing much is probably going to materialize of this thing with D. We are on opposite weekends and he is so busy on his kid weekends he can’t even take a break to breath. Unless I turn my whole schedule upside down, I don’t see how this could work. We were going to meet up Wednesday, but my ex can’t do Wednesday and Tuesday I have a hair appt which I am not cancelling. Maybe after that. But realistically, the logistics stink anyways.

Maybe it’s the universe telling me no.

Last edited by job; 10/07/19 02:39 PM. Reason: edited first sentence
Ginger1 #2867610 10/07/19 09:01 PM
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I wish I could go and have a beer with M and with firefighter and with a few of the other guys and get their input. It's sooooo sooooo soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo very hard to really get the full picture exclusively through what is written here. I would suspect you are correct, these guys (and others I've not named) are getting some sort of vibe or feeling about you from you. Not to say they think you are acting or following a script or rules but I've long believed they get a sense of you - as people do with all of us - based on other than what you say.

I recently watched a Dr. Phil episode (yes I'm a fan) about this young woman who kept getting ghosted by the guys she dated. This happened like a dozen times and was the focus of the show. There were even some great lines that I wrote down and almost posted but never did (until now). But the crux of it was they went and got the guys. She was a very pretty, very smart and personable young lady. Of course she said she had no idea what she might be doing wrong or why she was scaring these guys away - swore it can't be anything she's doing but when they investigated it was clear there was. They then went to these guys and got many of them to talk about the red flags they saw from her. They talked about her being too aggressive and other things that she was shocked to hear and never would have thought of herself doing. They talked about self worth and other things. Not at all saying this girl is you or you are her. My point is, she could not see it herself and would have never thought she was doing the things she really was doing - unknowingly.

I really think what you need Ginger is a life coach. Now I'm not talking about one of these self proclaimed life coaches who can't even run their own lives much less someone else's. But even on the show, they talked about a real, certified life coach who they said (and I agree) are for people who don't need a therapist. They don't fall into a diagnosis needing psychological counseling - they are mentally healthy, just need to change what they do. This fits you Ginger. You don't need a therapist or counselor - just someone to coach you through this better than those of us who don't directly know you ever could.

Now finding a quality life coach is likely easier said than done and then having to pay for it is a whole other story. So the second best suggestion I can offer might be to get and read the book - "Best Self - Be You Only Better" This is exactly what you talk about Ginger. You don't need to change who you are. That's what this life coach and book author talk about - the person not being broken, not having to change - you still be you, you just do it better. This is not some fly by night writer either, it's on the NY Times Best Seller List for awhile now. He also runs a life coaching service with trained professionals. Google this book and check it out.

As for the show, here are some of the quotes I was able to capture:

"Don't chase the wrong one because the right one won't run"

"If you've got to chase them, you don't want them."

"Don't be desperate and don't think you have to be in a relationship, because you don't. The only relationship that really matters is the one you have with yourself"

"Don't get shown a little interest and you go all in based on that little interest. Your standard has to be higher than that."

"Closure is over-rated. Disinterest is closure. When someone ghosts you, that's the closure."

"Never invest in someone based on how much you like them. Invest in someone based on how much they invest in you!"

I thought these were all some awesome quotes - and not at all just for you Ginger, these are for all of us, myself included. Google "Dr. Phil Ghosting" to see some of the video clips from this September 25th show and see if you see portions of yourself in this guest. And check out Best Self.


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Ginger1 #2867613 10/07/19 09:49 PM
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In my younger days (mid-20's) I was eager to be in a new relationship and hopefully one leading towards marriage and family. I think that eagerness wafted off of me and seriously impeded my dating. Guys that I was interested in didn't return the interest; "nice guys" that were interested in me I didn't really give a chance. (One of those "nice guys" from my med school class has grown into his boyish looks and looks great at 60; he's been happily and faithfully married to his wife for 35 years; they look very happy on their travels on Facebook - yeah, I know, things on FB can be phoney but I'm pretty sure their life is just what it seems. Boy was I dumb.).

I suspect Ginger is, like I was, drawn to those she has to work at attracting; for those of us with a history of loss, there's something validating about "winning" someone over. And it leads us to making excuses for their behavior if they are not quite meeting our needs. But in reality, what you want is someone who thinks you are the bees knees JUST as you are.

What I find in my old age is that the less I "need" a relationship, the harder men try to win me over. If I could have been less interested in my younger years I would probably have had more men pursuing me.

Ginger1 #2867620 10/07/19 11:00 PM
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Very very interesting.

If you were to sit down with FF, he would tell you what he told me. He wants kids and not for 5 years. It was all age difference with him. He was the one that was too much, not me. If you asked M? God knows. I think my expectations after a year were reasonable. He just was a self involved guy. Anything to give me was too much. ExNG, it was distance. He admitted to be very needy and not willing to give.

A life coach? Well, certainly not in the budget. I see friends and other people make arses out of themselves for a guy. And these guys love them!

I am one for self reflection, constantly looking at myself, but I don’t come across as desperate . Maybe the first guy I really cared about who just got married. I didn’t show respect to myself. And he saw that. And took advantage to that from tome to time.

I am just such a heavy DB’er when I date I think. I take all those principals and I don’t think they apply to dating.

I am also Grossly unlucky. I choose poorly. I don’t walk away when I should. That probably is seen to. It’s not seen as loyalty. It’s seen as me being desperate perhaps. I think M knew I should have walked away. But my loyalty causes me not to.

I ought be drawn to those who require more work. But deep down I don’t want all that work. I want a simple boring relationship shop where I can feel comfortable in the fact the guy chooses me, I choose him and there is no game playing.

Nothing is happening with me and D. He is overwhelmed with life. We can’t even meet this week. It’s probably never going to happen. And if it did? With his kids millions of sports and his demanding job in the city? We could probably see each other once every 2 weeks.

So Nothing is happening anyways.

For a year on the weekends, I spent time with M. Either with child or at some point with M, or with all of us. Now my weekends without my D has turned to just me. I was out with friends for a few hours on Saturday. But Sunday was me. I made a delicious meal, and sat at the table alone. It is something hard to adjust to again.

But obviously it is what it is and doesn’t seem to be changing anytime soon. Because dating is a huge challenge to me I’m so many ways, after all this conversation, I am finally scared of it. I am finally scared of this whole vicious cycle again.

So , here I go again on my own.

Ginger1 #2867634 10/08/19 02:18 AM
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You shouldn't be scared. You definitely should NOT be applying DBing in a dating situation. And you should care less about whether they approve of you and more about whether they meet YOUR standards

kml #2867647 10/08/19 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kml
You shouldn't be scared. You definitely should NOT be applying DBing in a dating situation. And you should care less about whether they approve of you and more about whether they meet YOUR standards


I agree with all of this.

I really am gun shy though. I was excited to meet this guy, and now im not. And I probably won’t be anyways.

Truth is, I can handle a guy who I meet as a friend first and then it turns romantic. I’d probably be much better off. I also need a guy who actively pursues me and doesn’t leave me guessing. Then I could feel more in control.

And I guess right now what I need is just to work 27 out of the 30 days in the month until my financial issues are solved.

In other words, my aunt was transferred to a subacute facility yesterday. One by my recommendation and what she knows. I work closely with the Liasons and here from the patients which ones are good and which ones aren’t. My cousin however is the toughest customer you will ever. I helped her through, got my connections and then she called me last night because she says the place is a “[censored] show” I intentionally didn’t answer the phone. I know that sounds awful, but I have no power anymore. And it’s hard having your loved one in these places as you saw from btfly’s post, but i know this is decent. She wants this impossible nurse to patient ratio and someone with her mom very often. Unfortunately you don’t get that unless you private hire. It’s a sad situation all around, she was an independent woman and now she’s confused and can’t get out of bed. I just can’t solve her problems. I can’t give her the answers she wants. And unfortunately, I know the realities of healthcare. I can tell you what is unaccepatavle and I can also tell you “ that’s the best you can hope for” she’s probably really mad at me, but I am sick, I am drained and I just couldn’t deal with it.

And I was awake all night coughing. Didn’t sleep a wink. I never get sick and I have felt like this since Thursday. We have a doctor at work who already world 20 hours a day and he has been working deathly ill since last Thursday too. He could barely move yesterday and we were begging him to go get a chest X-ray because we all know he has pneumonia.

That’s the reality of healthcare.

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