I cheated, we survived, now my wife's cheating

[neffer]

Exactly. Those same feelings. OW addiction.

Pacience man. Validate what needs to be validated but try to stay away from MR talks. Your W is the WW now. Let the fire consume the oxygen.

Keep DB. Stay strong there.

[JC08]

So a thing I struggle with some is where to draw the line on doing things that help her. As stated we have 4 kids, there has been 3 times already since I moved out where she had a 7 am meeting and has the kids. So I go out, wake the kids up, get them ready, take them to school and babysittiter.

Is this just enabling her? I mean this is part of the divorce she wants, shouldn't she gave to figure out that there is consequences for leaving, for divorce. I go and do it because I feel like it keeps me in good light, but she says thanks, but that's it. Doesn't talk to me when I get there, doesn't say have a good day, nothing, like it is just expected of me. I had no problem when we were together, but she wants to change that. Thoughts?

[neffer]

You need to stand for your children. But you need to share responsibilities. You don’t push that in orden to control her. Make arrangements to share those chores. Remember you need to detach and do your own things. You need to GAL.

There’s a long road ahead man. Keep the pace.

Go!

[JC08]

I picked my kids up Friday evening and then dropped them back off at 5 on Sunday. During that time she never contacted the kids, no text or phone calls. She sent me 2 text all weekend, one on Saturday morning asking if I was getting lots of friend request from girls on Facebook, just responded no. (Thought it was weird of her to ask, I did see she removed that she is married from FB). Then Sunday asked if I was still planning on 5pm drop off, which I just replied, "that is my plan".

So I drop the kids off, walk in the house, when I see her I looked at her smiled and said "hey, how are you?", and then went on telling my girls bye. Got done with that and said ok girls I got to go, have a few things to go do, and headed to toward the door. Said, " Okay see you later, hope the girls are good". Then she started in with, really, this is how we are going to be? we are just not going to talk? I just kept calm and said well you didn't talk to me all weekend just giving you the space I thought you wanted from me(She was with the OM, all weekend, you could tell she hadn't been home, and there was a big stack of clothes in her front seat), . She then said, "we have four girls to raise, we have to talk" I asked her if there was something to talk about with the kids? She said no, but you don't just have to drop them off and run off. Maybe this is bad, I don't know. I just respond, "this is your choice, and Im just trying to give you the space you asked for"

She screamed "My Choice!, You think this is my choice!!". So I just calmly said I'm not going to argue and I am going to leave. She calls me a jackass. I told her just to call or text me later if she had something with the kids but I needed to get going. She screamed, "fine have it your way"She stormed off and I left.

20 minutes later she text:

W: We have a lot of years raising girls ahead of us. I wish you could talk to me.

Me:I understand why you feel that way but you didn't ask me anything? You didn't talk all weekend, im just trying to give you the space you need from me.

W: I just didn't think talking for 30 seconds was a big deal. You run out of here like Im going to beat you. You act scared of me, I don't want that.


I didn't respond to that.

How could I have handled that better. I never raised my voice, acted defensive, or argued. I just wanted to drop my kids off and go. She acts like we are supposed to be best friends and wants to talk. I can't be best friends with her when all I want is my marriage back, and I am still 100% in love and emotionally attached.

And to top it off, has no problem asking me to be there to get the girls ready tomorrow morning because she has an early meeting again.

[neffer]

Keep reading. All your questions are there in Cadet’s post. Keep detaching, go dark and don’t get into MR talks.

You need to be consistent with your attitude. Less words, more DB

GAL, keep posting.

Time and patience. You are at the beggining of your new life. Be there.

[AnotherStander]

So I drop the kids off, walk in the house, when I see her I looked at her smiled and said "hey, how are you?", and then went on telling my girls bye. Got done with that and said ok girls I got to go, have a few things to go do, and headed to toward the door. Said, " Okay see you later, hope the girls are good". Then she started in with, really, this is how we are going to be? we are just not going to talk? I just kept calm and said well you didn't talk to me all weekend just giving you the space I thought you wanted from me(She was with the OM, all weekend, you could tell she hadn't been home, and there was a big stack of clothes in her front seat), . She then said, "we have four girls to raise, we have to talk" I asked her if there was something to talk about with the kids? She said no, but you don't just have to drop them off and run off. Maybe this is bad, I don't know. I just respond, "this is your choice, and Im just trying to give you the space you asked for"

You handled it well, the reason you are confused is her negative reaction. The problem is nothing you do right now is going to get a positive reaction from her. She's looking for any reason at all to lash out. So just keep doing your thing and giving her that time and space. From now on I would suggest a small adjustment though, don't say "I'm just trying to give you the space you asked for" say "I think we both need time and space to think things through" or "I just need some time and space for a while". Because if you tell her you're giving her what she asked for then she's going to insist you don't understand, you're wrong, you're making things more difficult, blah blah blah. She's got to think you're moving on and doing things for YOU. If YOU need time and space from her, then she can't argue with that.

How could I have handled that better. I never raised my voice, acted defensive, or argued. I just wanted to drop my kids off and go. She acts like we are supposed to be best friends and wants to talk. I can't be best friends with her when all I want is my marriage back, and I am still 100% in love and emotionally attached.

You handled it fine, and yes, you should just drop the kids off and leave. You don't want to be her BFF while she's engaging in an affair, that's just letting her cake-eat. Plus like you said you are still attached, so you need that time and space as much as she does.

[JC08]

Thank you for the support and the replies.

Still keeping contact to a minimum. She text me again, her text are all over the place.

W: I don't want you to hate me more, so please don't think I'm telling you what to do, but the kids will be ok if we are ok. I think they need to see us be able to talk for 5 seconds when we do drop off. I think they pick up talking to me is painful.

Me: I don't hate you, I don't even dislike you. I wouldn't go out of my way to help with kids or let you make rude comments to me and not respond if I hate you.

W: I don't mean to blow up at you all the time. I'm Sorry.

End of conversation.

The only reason the kids knew anything was because she got hateful and loud, which got their attention, plus if not engaging in conversation, detaching, ect can help break through the WAW mindset and give me the chance to repair our relationship in the future, then I would rather the kids deal with not seeing us interact much for a year, then go a lifetime of divorced parents.

Additionally, I'm happy, up beat, don't act bothered for the few minutes, so I don't get where she is saying the thing about the pain, I don't let her see any of that. She keeps asking me if I am okay, I just respond Yep!, I mean I'm not, but I don't want her to know that.

I went to therapy last night, my therapist keeps telling me that we cant know what she is thinking or what she is going to do, but that she keeps saying and doing things of someone who is not really done, that she wants to believe she is, but her actions and words say things differently. Additionally she keeps letting some of her pain out towards me, my therapist tells me that is a good thing because it shows her not completely moved on.

She knows that I go to therapy, but not when. We live in a small town, so I literally have to drive two hours to Kansas city to a therapist, so its quite the process, makes for a long day but I do think it is teaching me how to deal with some emotions in a healthy way and will hopefully contribute to me becoming AMOAFWL.

While in therapy my WAW sent my mom the following text: Is Justin doing okay? I mean all things considered. This whole situation is far less than ideal. nothing I ever dreamed we would have to deal with. He won't talk to me and I get that I'm not who he wants to talk to but I still worry about him.


It almost makes me angry! Its not ideal!, so stop this, and lets get to WORK!!! I know that is logic, so it doesn't matter, I just need this A to die and in the mean time work on me and hopefully she'll think about putting our lives and family back together at some point.

[AnotherStander]

W: I don't want you to hate me more, so please don't think I'm telling you what to do, but the kids will be ok if we are ok. I think they need to see us be able to talk for 5 seconds when we do drop off. I think they pick up talking to me is painful.

Me: I don't hate you, I don't even dislike you. I wouldn't go out of my way to help with kids or let you make rude comments to me and not respond if I hate you.

W: I don't mean to blow up at you all the time. I'm Sorry.

End of conversation.

You're doing well at cutting these short and not letting her draw you into a relationship talk. But next time don't defend yourself "You hate me!" "No I don't!" Just stick to business. "If there is something about the kids that you want to discuss then I will be happy to do so."

I went to therapy last night, my therapist keeps telling me that we cant know what she is thinking or what she is going to do, but that she keeps saying and doing things of someone who is not really done, that she wants to believe she is, but her actions and words say things differently. Additionally she keeps letting some of her pain out towards me, my therapist tells me that is a good thing because it shows her not completely moved on.

This is typical of WAS's. They want out but there is a nagging doubt that they are doing the wrong thing, so sometimes they'll put mixed signals out there.

While in therapy my WAW sent my mom the following text: Is Justin doing okay? I mean all things considered. This whole situation is far less than ideal. nothing I ever dreamed we would have to deal with. He won't talk to me and I get that I'm not who he wants to talk to but I still worry about him.

Tell your mom and anyone else your W may contact to tell her you are doing fine. You're not responding to your W's temperature checks so now she's going behind your back to check on you.

I just need this A to die and in the mean time work on me and hopefully she'll think about putting our lives and family back together at some point.

Well it's not just a matter of the A ending. She's got to learn and grow and transform from this experience. She may do that or she may not. Some A's end and the WAS just immediately pursued OM2 and OM3, etc. You have no control over that. All you can so is be the spouse only a fool would leave so that if she looks back she'll see that. And if she leaves anyway well then she is a fool and do you want to be married to a fool?

[sandi2]

Is your secretary (the OW) still working with you?

Our marriage wasn’t bad, but we had some arguments, like everyone, but about two years ago I really started getting depressed about our relationship. As stated, we have four girls, it got to the point where I gave baths, cooked supper, got them ready for school/daycare, dropped them off, picked them up, ect. Of course, she helped sometimes, but I easily did 75%.

Is your W employed? In spite of her parent's warning, you chose to place your W on a pedestal while taking on 75% of the chores. I might understand the outside work, farm animals, etc., but I'm curious as to why you were persistent in leaving her with little to do. Is your love language acts of service?

I suspect your W will expect you to continue 75% of the work, b/c you have spoiled her and she will struggle just learning how to put on her big girl panties all by herself.

I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids.........since you always took care of everything. As time progresses, you will probably see a lot more anger that you don't understand. Just look in the mirror and remember you created this princess. I think she'll want you over there to help every evening that she is "stuck" with caring for the kids and being responsible for all that work she's never had to do. I mean, she may not know what bills to pay or when, etc. IMHO, it is a disservice to his W when a H leaves nothing for her to do. Hopefully, she has the type of personality where she'll dive in and be determined to learn how to handle running the house..........but, we'll see. Once you reconcile, be smart and don't pick up 75% of the work again.

Okay, so about your affair. Was it physical?

My wife took on a new happiness that hadn’t been there since I can remember, we were like kids in love. We flirted, we touched, we smiled, we talked and communicated, things seemed perfect. Occasionally some memory or trigger would happen and she would have a rough day, I would ask her what she needed from me, and she a lot of times would ask me if I really wanted her, If I really loved her, that I didn’t stay because of guilt, I would confirm all those thing, tell her it was never her, it was me, and then after a day or two things were good again. But those episodes got fewer and fewer.

You thought you were seeing your W take on a new happiness, but in reality, she was competing with the secretary....or an OW#2 in the future, if she (your W) wasn't enough for you. She wanted to present herself and your MR as so wonderful that you would never consider another woman/affair. But her pain and low self esteem was there.......she just wouldn't show it to you, except in those times she desperately needed reassurance. This is just MHO, of course. Perhaps the reason these times of reassurances became less, was b/c her pain was shifting to anger.

I may change my mind once we have more information, but at the moment, I feel your W is having a revenge affair. I think she was so affected by your betrayal that she wanted you to experience the pain she has suffered. When ole smooth talker (OM) appeared, he fit the job description.........that's all.

Long road ahead, so I hope you stick around.

[JC08]

Well when we started dating, I just naturally started doing everything I could for her, but I have always been like that. Someone need help or you see where you could help out, you stepped in and did. Like I said from a small town(500 people) and its just kinda what you did, or I did. So when we started dating, it just came naturally, we both lived with our parents when we started dating, we were 18, fresh out of high school. I help her parents with projects all the time, one I like work, I'm handy, and she loved I was hard working and got along with her parents.

I guess as we progressed in our relationship, I just continued that. I would help and push her when she got stressed. She applied for Pharmacy School, which is a competitive school to get into, shed get overwhelmed with the stress of getting in, so I did anything I could to take stress away, then she got into Pharmacy School and we moved into separate apartments, I was in college about 30 minutes away, both of us 2 hours from home. The trend continued, Stress jumped up in Pharmacy School, there was a decent failure rate, she had always been straight A's and things came easy, Pharmacy School was not that, she had to work her ass off, and I just did what I could anywhere I could. I guess that trend continued on through school, and into marriage. I was the fixer, right after getting married she had a year of medical rotations, which meant she worked all week out of town(we moved back home), made no money, had to stay at hotels and eat out every night, and I was just starting my job and pay wasn't great, so I got a second job, I mean she had built up six figure student loan debt, fresh married, broke, and seemed like we were scraping by, so I did what I need to as the husband and provider, I worked, told her not to worry about things, I would take care of it. Second month into her rotations third month into marriage, 6 weeks into first baby, she miscarried, it hit me hard, we were sticking to our plans of school, marriage, babies, careers, happy life, Then that happened. She was devastated, and felt like a failure. I did what I needed to and lifted her up, support her. Again I just tried to insulate and support her, and not give her the stresses I had, felt like she didn't need anymore. I guess that continued on for the next 10 years, until I decided I wasn't going to do it anymore, I wanted some feedback, some appreciation, not from other people that gave it to me sometimes just seeing things from the outside but from my wife.

But it wasn't all her fault, I got really good at bottling that up, really good. Sometimes I had spew it out in anger instead of talking and communication. Then I would go back to it.

Yes she has a good, very good job as a pharmacist. I have a good job also, I'm VP at a local Bank. I still always let her career take priority, it was the bigger earner, it was more stressful, felt like it was a more important job, and I was always super proud of her earning that degree and having that job.

The thing my wife always has done is be OCD, so cleaning the house, everything put in its place was a huge deal, to me our house was cleaner that most peoples, and she would say it was filthy, and she would stress and don't get me wrong, four kids can turn a house upside down quickly if they get a chance, so she would do her thing cleaning and what not, and I would do the other thing. Except during my affair, she thinks I did nothing during that time, in reality we were probably more 50/50.

Yes mine was physical and emotional. Started off emotional, then crossed the line. Before it ever crossed the emotional to physical I tried to get out, the OW wouldn't let it be, she pursued me non stop, not that it was an excuse. I remember thinking before it ever went physical, I told her I wasn't going to talk to her anymore, that I wasn't jeopardizing everything. On the way home that day I remember calling my wife and yelling at her that she better figure out how to make me happy, I felt like I was giving up happiness with this OW, I felt like she got me, she appreciated me, told me how great a dad and husband I was. Of course she didn't leave me alone, and of course all I could see was negative, and I couldn't see that my unhappiness was because I was talking to my wife, I wasn't facing my issues, our issues, I was just running from them.

and when I was the Wayward Husband she did everything you are not supposed to do, that I then stated doing to her that just pushed me farther and farther away. Ill post more later on my affair and whatnot or any other questions.